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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Taavi Suikkanen
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:13:00 - [2221]
 

Since 2005 (First time I played this game) I have admired CCP's programming. Lot's of us don't realize how genius it is. Yes they have issues time to time but show me game who doesn't.

If you go to CCP Games Youtube channel you find there panel video about this. Bot's have pattern like behavior and I have no doubt in time CCP refines their scan algorithms to catch bot's. No matter is it an BOT, Synergy or any other aid what interacts with client as an user.

IMO best thing what you can do is post a link every new bot created. Don't worry about the rest. Characters don't get banned, account's do.

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:48:00 - [2222]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs

B) If you're going to comment typically you'd provide some input. Why did I "fail"?


input:
char a gets 2 infractions and is sold off and a new character made. Rinse, repeat. Botting continues
Rules fail at this point.

THAT is why

and lol at not seeing botters RUINING OUR GAME

as as bad as hackers...

that is also why you fail
Good to know, however, your stance on it out in the open.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:21:00 - [2223]
 

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
char a gets 2 infractions and is sold off and a new character made. Rinse, repeat. Botting continues

Rules fail at this point.


And you don't think that is the pattern even if the character can't be sold?, it would be the same even if you would get banned on first offense.

"char a gets banned and a new character made. Rinse, repeat. Botting continues"

mkint
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:28:00 - [2224]
 

Edited by: mkint on 06/04/2011 22:34:40
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 06/04/2011 05:48:58
Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 06/04/2011 05:45:33
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
I think the most heinous example off the top of my head would be that when a character DOES legally change hands, forcing some new guy to wear a scarlet letter for someone else's actions is a bit of a bummer.



...legally buying a botting account
Why do I have the odd feeling that the botters, the real hard core ones, dont sell off the banned characters as much as keep going till they get permmaed.

Originally by: CCP Sreegs


We are aware of character transfers being a loophole and will be closing it. How is still a matter of internal discussion.

:edit: It's really not much of a loophole but is not where it should be from my perspective


this is why you fail.

seriously.

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
I believe the rule may very well turn into two strikes sooner rather than later


So youre more lenient on ppl botting and ruining the game than people that hack the client.
The second there gets you an immediate permaban more often than not, yet botting is a 2 - 3 strike deal.




I'm not going to bother navigating the terrible quote system here so I'll use A, B and C to reply to your comments.

A) Accounts cannot change hands only characters can. I'll leave your speculation to yourself.


Of course only characters can have character transfers. That's a no-brainer. (edit: an account has no value in itself.) The issue is that a character has a very specific isk value, even with no assets and no isk. That isk value is above the value of the required PLEXes and skillbooks. So even if a botter gets his 2 strikes and even if the 3rd strike would have come 20 minutes of gameplay after his 2nd strike it won't matter because he'd already have sold the character completely legally for more than 2 month's worth of botting income.

The issue is the botters are first getting paid to bot. Then they are getting paid again to not bot. Then they will just start up another trial account paid for with PLEX and start botting again and get paid to bot and not bot yet again.

The blaise attitude about it makes it sound like you're not caring that the botters are in a win-win situation.

edit: ok, let's break the 3 strikes system even more... say I'm a high-income botter and I've got 2 strikes. Time to do a character transfer to a brand spankin' new PLEX'd trial account and completely evade all the strikes that go against the old account. Sure it'll cost me some isk in PLEX, but it'd be cheaper than training a new botting toon. It's not as profitable as selling the character outright, but training up a new character can be a hassle.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:43:00 - [2225]
 

Originally by: mkint


edit: ok, let's break the 3 strikes system even more... say I'm a high-income botter and I've got 2 strikes. Time to do a character transfer to a brand spankin' new PLEX'd trial account and completely evade all the strikes that go against the old account. Sure it'll cost me some isk in PLEX, but it'd be cheaper than training a new botting toon. It's not as profitable as selling the character outright, but training up a new character can be a hassle.


I think transferring a pilot to a new account takes 2 PLEX? And one PLEX for the new account, so thats 3 PLEX, a little over a billion isk at present prices. So to stop this CCP needs to detect the new account botting before 1 billion isk is made. High sec mining, thats like a week. Running santums, not sure, maybe 12 to 24 hours?

CCP Sreegs: Think you can catch them fast enough?

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:45:00 - [2226]
 

Originally by: mkint
after his 2nd strike it won't matter because he'd already have sold the character completely legally for more than 2 month's worth of botting income.


Your assume a value of the bot character that probably is much higher then, what it really is. If CCP catch the botter within the first month or two the character is not going to be worth anything close to 1-2 months of botting.

mkint
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:53:00 - [2227]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: mkint
after his 2nd strike it won't matter because he'd already have sold the character completely legally for more than 2 month's worth of botting income.


Your assume a value of the bot character that probably is much higher then, what it really is. If CCP catch the botter within the first month or two the character is not going to be worth anything close to 1-2 months of botting.

But that's the point. There's this whole legal economy built up around illegal botters liquidating their character assets. And Sreegs is acting like "oh, no big deal, because we can ban the accounts that used to have bots on them." Whether the value is high or low, why does it matter? The botter is still in a win-win situation, and Sreegs seems fine with that, rather than turning it into a lose-lose situation.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.04.06 23:05:00 - [2228]
 

Originally by: mkint
The botter is still in a win-win situation, and Sreegs seems fine with that, rather than turning it into a lose-lose situation.


He already said that they know about it they are going to close that loophole, he probably knows better then you where it's best to focus man power, and if even a lot of bots are being character traded.

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.07 04:32:00 - [2229]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
char a gets 2 infractions and is sold off and a new character made. Rinse, repeat. Botting continues

Rules fail at this point.


And you don't think that is the pattern even if the character can't be sold?, it would be the same even if you would get banned on first offense.

"char a gets banned and a new character made. Rinse, repeat. Botting continues"


They DONT ban the account??

Wow they really dont care about botting lol

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.07 04:35:00 - [2230]
 

Originally by: mkint
And Sreegs is acting like "oh, no big deal, because we can ban the accounts that used to have bots on them."


Seems more to be "Its not that big an issue" attitude to me

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.04.07 11:16:00 - [2231]
 

Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 07/04/2011 13:40:39
Just to post here link to related thread so that we have all important data here, on one place:

Reporting from the front line of the Bot-War


In this tread are reactions on, and results of, anti bot war...



Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.07 12:29:00 - [2232]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 07/04/2011 12:35:30
We DO have one place... here...
If the trend continues, your thread will get locked, pointing to this thread to talk about it.

like theyve done with every other thread talking about botting since about halfway through this thread's life.

Theres a reason this thread has 130,000 replies

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.07 13:06:00 - [2233]
 

CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.04.07 13:40:00 - [2234]
 

Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 07/04/2011 13:41:07
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 07/04/2011 12:35:30
We DO have one place... here...
If the trend continues, your thread will get locked, pointing to this thread to talk about it.

like theyve done with every other thread talking about botting since about halfway through this thread's life.

Theres a reason this thread has 130,000 replies


First:
I think you miss-understood me...
so ill fix my post to
"Just to post here link to related thread so that we have all important data here, on one place:"

i linked all kind of pages and links here in the past... all talking about botting...

and Second:
Thats not my thread...

Severian Carnifex
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.07 14:35:00 - [2235]
 

@ CCP Sreegs:

Can you tell us when we can expect Devblog on this subject?

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.09 23:31:00 - [2236]
 

cant let this thread die even with the loltastic demise of the new forums

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.10 01:04:00 - [2237]
 

screw the forum debate... fix the botting issue >.<


Elanor Vega
Posted - 2011.04.10 10:03:00 - [2238]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
screw the forum debate... fix the botting issue >.<





+1

Valator Uel
Caldari
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.10 10:41:00 - [2239]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
screw the forum debate... fix the botting issue >.<




Sreegs is doing both YARRRR!!

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.04.10 11:09:00 - [2240]
 

Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 10/04/2011 11:12:54
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too. That's actually the root of the issue but it won't be addressed any time soon. Forbid playing without a valid CC and much of the casual botting etc is dead, only hardcore criminals are left that rely on credit card fraud and thus not only have CCP on their back but law enforcement.

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:10:00 - [2241]
 

Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


I support underlined part...
so... account that is sanctioned for botting cant use Character Transfer any more...

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:30:00 - [2242]
 

Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 10/04/2011 17:32:10
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ CCP Sreegs:

Can you tell us when we can expect Devblog on this subject?


Soon(tm) the failboat of the forums comes first

Originally by: Aquila Draco
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


I support underlined part...
so... account that is sanctioned for botting cant use Character Transfer any more...


as I understand it from what Sreeg already said, they flag the account for botting, hows selling the char matter? unless theyre PLEXxing a new account and selling the botting char to that one... ah I get it

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:43:00 - [2243]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 10/04/2011 11:12:54
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too. That's actually the root of the issue but it won't be addressed any time soon. Forbid playing without a valid CC and much of the casual botting etc is dead, only hardcore criminals are left that rely on credit card fraud and thus not only have CCP on their back but law enforcement.

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...

+1 like

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.04.11 15:20:00 - [2244]
 

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 10/04/2011 17:32:10
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ CCP Sreegs:

Can you tell us when we can expect Devblog on this subject?


Soon(tm) the failboat of the forums comes first

Originally by: Aquila Draco
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


I support underlined part...
so... account that is sanctioned for botting cant use Character Transfer any more...


as I understand it from what Sreeg already said, they flag the account for botting, hows selling the char matter? unless theyre PLEXxing a new account and selling the botting char to that one... ah I get it



Not only becouse they are selling botting chars to other account that is in hands of the same person... thats problem too but it can be tracked and controlled... but becouse they sell that char... get isk... and then they buy new char on new account... that cant be tracked... or... they dont buy new char... they pay with that isk plexes for fiew new chars that in short time become full skilled botting chars... and that cant be tracked too...
so... with removing character transfer option form all accs that ever bot... that would remove them option to continue doing so with that char or char that is bought with that char...

sorry for bad spelling... writing in hurry...

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.11 17:31:00 - [2245]
 

Originally by: Aquila Draco
Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 10/04/2011 17:32:10
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ CCP Sreegs:

Can you tell us when we can expect Devblog on this subject?


Soon(tm) the failboat of the forums comes first

Originally by: Aquila Draco
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


I support underlined part...
so... account that is sanctioned for botting cant use Character Transfer any more...


as I understand it from what Sreeg already said, they flag the account for botting, hows selling the char matter? unless theyre PLEXxing a new account and selling the botting char to that one... ah I get it



Not only becouse they are selling botting chars to other account that is in hands of the same person... thats problem too but it can be tracked and controlled... but becouse they sell that char... get isk... and then they buy new char on new account... that cant be tracked... or... they dont buy new char... they pay with that isk plexes for fiew new chars that in short time become full skilled botting chars... and that cant be tracked too...
so... with removing character transfer option form all accs that ever bot... that would remove them option to continue doing so with that char or char that is bought with that char...

sorry for bad spelling... writing in hurry...


Yeah that was more sarcasm than anything, hoping someone else would step up and tell sreegs that theres more than a little to worry about issue here

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.11 17:54:00 - [2246]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).

rock crawlermne
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:07:00 - [2247]
 

Edited by: rock crawlermne on 11/04/2011 18:07:13
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).





I'll join J Kunjeh in that facepalm

How is removing rights from known bot offenders a bad thing? Seriously? If I cheat in RL, lets say I steal money and I get caught, I go to prison...my rights are removed. If I'm convicted of a fellon in America, I'm no longer allowed to own firearms and vote in most places...my rights are removed.

Read this next part slow and dramattic:

BOTTERS ARE ChEATING REMOVE THEIR RIGHTS!!!

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:45:00 - [2248]
 

Edited by: Aquila Draco on 11/04/2011 18:47:37

Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


Originally by: rock crawlermne
Edited by: rock crawlermne on 11/04/2011 18:07:13
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).





I'll join J Kunjeh in that facepalm

How is removing rights from known bot offenders a bad thing? Seriously? If I cheat in RL, lets say I steal money and I get caught, I go to prison...my rights are removed. If I'm convicted of a fellon in America, I'm no longer allowed to own firearms and vote in most places...my rights are removed.

Read this next part slow and dramattic:

BOTTERS ARE ChEATING REMOVE THEIR RIGHTS!!!



OH... i didnt see that part... remove PLEX ONLY for EULA offenders...
(i thought remove plex for all)...
if thats for botters... YES PLEASE...

becouse law offenders have less rights... and thats MUST... and EULA is law here...



but Character Transfer rights MUST be taken away from there... thats NO ONE here...

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:48:00 - [2249]
 

Edited by: Aquila Draco on 11/04/2011 18:49:18
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


Originally by: rock crawlermne
Edited by: rock crawlermne on 11/04/2011 18:07:13
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).





I'll join J Kunjeh in that facepalm

How is removing rights from known bot offenders a bad thing? Seriously? If I cheat in RL, lets say I steal money and I get caught, I go to prison...my rights are removed. If I'm convicted of a fellon in America, I'm no longer allowed to own firearms and vote in most places...my rights are removed.

Read this next part slow and dramattic:

BOTTERS ARE ChEATING REMOVE THEIR RIGHTS!!!







OH... i didnt see that part... remove PLEX ONLY for EULA offenders...
(i thought remove plex for all)...
if thats for botters... YES PLEASE...

becouse law offenders have less rights... and thats MUST... and EULA is law here...



but Character Transfer rights MUST be taken away from them... thats NUMBER ONE here..

Demoness Lolth
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:11:00 - [2250]
 

Originally by: Aquila Draco
Edited by: Aquila Draco on 11/04/2011 18:49:18
Originally by: Shandir
CCP Sreegs - any objection to removing the option to A) PLEX, and B) Character Transfer on a 1st and 2nd warning botting account?
Both of these would cripple profitability, while allowing legitimate players to continue playing.


Originally by: rock crawlermne
Edited by: rock crawlermne on 11/04/2011 18:07:13
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).





I'll join J Kunjeh in that facepalm

How is removing rights from known bot offenders a bad thing? Seriously? If I cheat in RL, lets say I steal money and I get caught, I go to prison...my rights are removed. If I'm convicted of a fellon in America, I'm no longer allowed to own firearms and vote in most places...my rights are removed.

Read this next part slow and dramattic:

BOTTERS ARE ChEATING REMOVE THEIR RIGHTS!!!







OH... i didnt see that part... remove PLEX ONLY for EULA offenders...
(i thought remove plex for all)...
if thats for botters... YES PLEASE...

becouse law offenders have less rights... and thats MUST... and EULA is law here...



but Character Transfer rights MUST be taken away from them... thats NUMBER ONE here..


LOL LOL LOL AND MORE LOL

I have a few point for you which you may need to read to understand and take 5 mins out to reflect on before you bashg your keyboard with your emo raging :

Quote:
BOTTERS ARE ChEATING REMOVE THEIR RIGHTS!!!


So here goes :

1) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
2) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
3) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
4) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
5) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
6) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
7) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
8) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
9) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
10) THIS IS A ****ING GAME

This is a ****ing game so stop crying about it. CCP wont change the way they handle this... trust me they wont. You keep paying your subscription and more and more come to the game and play regardless of the botters.

I myself have killed many botters and it makes for fun :)

Again again and again

1) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
2) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
3) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
4) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
5) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
6) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
7) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
8) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
9) THIS IS A ****ING GAME
10) THIS IS A ****ING GAME

Nuff said !


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