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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Sister Hypatia
Posted - 2010.12.09 07:19:00 - [181]
 

"I don't want pve it's bad and boring, I want only pvp" is a common excuse for botting or rmt.
Eve does not have pve or pvp, it is not pvp or pve game. Eve is a sandbox and cheating turns it into litter box. Do not want.

Caldari Citizen2323256
Posted - 2010.12.09 10:59:00 - [182]
 

Quote:

CCP have no interest in removal of bots, because more bots = more clients, and trust me none of bot user pay the subscription, they buy gtc. so they use a ****load of gtc, buyed legally. For every bots there is a gtc, in game, buyed from ccp, at a cost that is higher, than what you can buy from chinese.



Says a certain RMT'er on an unmentionable Eve News site.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.09 11:20:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
re: lowering cost of gtc:

one that can't be done and 2, people in wormholes make to much money as it is, which is where some of the problem lies.

stop botters and reduce wormhole profits and gtc may go down. but there are so many ways in eve to make vast sums of money with little effort if you have multiple accounts and you play more than a casual player.

as a casual player the rise in gtc prices is welcome as I pvp and don't have time to grind anything, even null sec anoms.



When *I* say lower GTC I'm talking about the real dollar cost to people not the otherside which is then PLEX ingame, that is not controlled by CCP. IF CCP lowers the cost for GTC the immediate effect is you get more isk per real dollar spent when selling PLEX, now the market can adjust to decrease that, counter productive to fighting RMT, but on the surface it is more competitive with the RMT people and lowers their profit margins as well as CCP but CCP can/may reclaim alleged 'lost' sales. Why a GTC price can't be lowered is beyond me $35 for 2 months game time at a rate of $17.50 per PLEX the regular monthly cost is $15 per month on monthly sub, $13 on a 3 month sub and $12 on a 6 month sub and $11 on a yearly plan. GTC have a $5 cost that could be 'dropped' to equal a real month of regular subscription time, or even dip to a 3 month cost or somewhere between the month and 3 month cost. Of course it wouldn't even need to be 'on the table' if CCP was more successful in stopping RMT and botting.

We can argue that 'everyone' makes too much ISK from 00 moon goo/plex/rat chaining/etc to mission runners and so on the first thing and I see you acknowledge it is to stop the botting so that to make the isk you have to be present playing, more or less. It absolutely is FINE that if you have more than one account and play more than a casual player you make more than a casual player, how else should it be, you put in more effort/time and or money on subscriptions you should reap more benefit. The 'line' is that you shouldn't gain from misusing the system with bots/macros or be allowed to get away with RMT sales or buying and 'isk washing' it to keep for your main, that is the gain with little effort which isn't right.

There may be 'too much isk' in the game and the only way to curb that is to aggressive stop botting/macros that artificially create ISK along with more ISK sinks, if that is done the isk in game will get consumed in time especially with all the WTF Supercap lag fests. CCP's approach seems to me will be "let's nerf isk creation and/or add more ISK sinks" rather than the real problem which is bots/macros generating it at inhuman rates.

I have some hope CCP might be going in the right direction with the updates of recent but CCP hasn't inspired me that they are working on the problem and it may just be my wishful thinking as their past efforts and behavior shows me more a complicit attitude than one of fighting it on every front.

If a player wants to spend all day/or days sitting in a chair or on a toilet not bathing or interacting with people in RL to generate their millions or billions that is fine it is when they let a program do it for them that we have a problem. In the end bots/macros will never go away but real efforts can be made to limit their prevalence and put the fear in people to not do it as they will get banned and lose their accounts/characters. Now it is IMO the view that people can 'get away with it' and that by taking certain steps they can insulate their mains from banning by various means, if that weren't true we wouldn't have as many isk billionaires or the RMT market still kicking as it is.

TLDR: I want cornflakes.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.09 11:45:00 - [184]
 

I agree with many of your points and I want to see RMT and botting gone.

The whole selling GTC is a double edged sword in this regard. Myself the genuine player with 1 account benefits from this but it turns out now, that so does the botter/RMT person.

If it takes GTC removal as part of the solution then I support it.

One thing I noticed in my years of EVE is when GTC selling was introduced, a player with 1 or 2b ISK was no longer considered rich. You're now only considered rich if you have 20b+.

What ****es me of most is some alliances using RMT or bots to fund themselves. I often puzzles me just how certain corps and alliances fund themselves, it was pretty obvious but now its really clear.

CCP, if you don't remove the bots and RMT's then the players that buy from the RMT will leave EVE, leaving you with a dead game.

MadManMaura
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.12.09 13:15:00 - [185]
 

has CCP even bothered to say this is a problem or is it true they just dont care about botters, the russian drone areas are loaded with em.

but seeing as CCP never fired the person who was giving bob BPO and other faction eqipment this should be no suprise

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:07:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?

Mr FourEyes
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:10:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


I think your high, we dont want any botters anyway anyhow. I take it your a russian botter

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:16:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


A bot or macro makes ISK by abnormally and continuously doing things that make ISK in such a manner that a normal person could not do except for short stints aka marathon gaming sessions. Buying GTC converting them to PLEX and selling them doesn't make ISK at all, it simply transfers ISK created by a bot or a human to another account.

So no they wouldn't be the same thing botting/macros create ISK and buying GTC selling PLEX transfers it.

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:19:00 - [189]
 

^^^

The difference being, the bot you buy from ccp will make 360million a month, instead of buying 360million isk from ccp you'll buy a bot which makes the same amount of isk but over a longer period of time. It will be cheaper. So now you have the option of buying isk whenver you want.. via plex for $15 or you can buy a bot for lets say $2 and it will give you the same amount of isk but at a slower rate. So now you got the options of buying isk flat out at a premium, or buying a bot for cheaper, or playing for free and earning it the hard way. Everyones covered.

Jojo Jackson
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:26:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


I learned how to program all sorts of automated stuff including bots. My real job is to create automated picture and video analysis/manipulating tools.
But I would NEVER EVER use my knowlage to cheat as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won allready by cheating".

I earn a lot of real money with this tools I create. So it would be no problem to sell 100 PLEX/month.
But again I would NEVER EVER use my real money for it as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won by real money allready".

I pay (normaly monthly price) and play to have fun. Cheating, botting, exploiding DESTROY FUN!

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:30:00 - [191]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:30:22
Originally by: Bhattran
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


A bot or macro makes ISK by abnormally and continuously doing things that make ISK in such a manner that a normal person could not do except for short stints aka marathon gaming sessions. Buying GTC converting them to PLEX and selling them doesn't make ISK at all, it simply transfers ISK created by a bot or a human to another account.

So no they wouldn't be the same thing botting/macros create ISK and buying GTC selling PLEX transfers it.


I really dont understandt your point... my point is that you can arleady buy isk legitimately , you just but plex with money and then sell it for isk ont he market, in effect CCP is selling isk, its no loop hole or accident. So why not sell bots as well, as a cheaper option? and why not move the game to F2P for the cheapest option, where you have to earn everything manually if you chose that route?

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:31:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Everyones covered.


Keep poasting. Go ahead. It shows how much you don't know about the Macro scourge.

For starters, have you any idea the load strain that is and would be put on the servers during bot use?

You sir are a fool and/or a macro user.

/petitioned ingame for macro investigation

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:35:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:38:30
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


I learned how to program all sorts of automated stuff including bots. My real job is to create automated picture and video analysis/manipulating tools.
But I would NEVER EVER use my knowlage to cheat as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won allready by cheating".

I earn a lot of real money with this tools I create. So it would be no problem to sell 100 PLEX/month.
But again I would NEVER EVER use my real money for it as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won by real money allready".

I pay (normaly monthly price) and play to have fun. Cheating, botting, exploiding DESTROY FUN!


Here here, but some dont see it that way. They get their fun by buying stuff, not earning it. So what if you could play for free... and earn it the hard way,(by free i mean no monthly cost, be it isk or money) would you accept people in the game "cheating" if they had to pay for it with real money? Youre playing for free so you shouldnt complain.. they're buying their isk so if anything they're comlpaining youre able to make good isk for free, no ones better than the other. Buying bots would be an intermediate step, for those who dont want to buy isk flat out, and at the same time dont want to earn it the hard way. I wouldnt even call it a bot, lets call it a wingman, hire a wingman to mine for you for $2 , or however many isk.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:41:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Michwich
^^^

The difference being, the bot you buy from ccp will make 360million a month, instead of buying 360million isk from ccp you'll buy a bot which makes the same amount of isk but over a longer period of time. It will be cheaper. So now you have the option of buying isk whenver you want.. via plex for $15 or you can buy a bot for lets say $2 and it will give you the same amount of isk but at a slower rate. So now you got the options of buying isk flat out at a premium, or buying a bot for cheaper, or playing for free and earning it the hard way. Everyones covered.


/me tosses poisoned troll food at Michwich.


Tornan
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:43:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:38:30
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


I learned how to program all sorts of automated stuff including bots. My real job is to create automated picture and video analysis/manipulating tools.
But I would NEVER EVER use my knowlage to cheat as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won allready by cheating".

I earn a lot of real money with this tools I create. So it would be no problem to sell 100 PLEX/month.
But again I would NEVER EVER use my real money for it as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won by real money allready".

I pay (normaly monthly price) and play to have fun. Cheating, botting, exploiding DESTROY FUN!


Here here, but some dont see it that way. They get their fun by buying stuff, not earning it. So what if you could play for free... and earn it the hard way,(by free i mean no monthly cost, be it isk or money) would you accept people in the game "cheating" if they had to pay for it with real money? Youre playing for free so you shouldnt complain.. they're buying their isk so if anything they're comlpaining youre able to make good isk for free, no ones better than the other. Buying bots would be an intermediate step, for those who dont want to buy isk flat out, and at the same time dont want to earn it the hard way. I wouldnt even call it a bot, lets call it a wingman, hire a wingman to mine for you for $2 , or however many isk.



if there is a ny god ccp will ban this botter.

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.09 14:54:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:54:56
Originally by: Tornan
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:38:30
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 09/12/2010 14:07:21
What if you could buy bots (or macros as you old timers like to call them) with plex? or money, whatever. Itd be the same thing as buying isk from ccp, it would be legit and you wouldnt get mad.

?


I learned how to program all sorts of automated stuff including bots. My real job is to create automated picture and video analysis/manipulating tools.
But I would NEVER EVER use my knowlage to cheat as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won allready by cheating".

I earn a lot of real money with this tools I create. So it would be no problem to sell 100 PLEX/month.
But again I would NEVER EVER use my real money for it as I would lose all fun playing a game after I "won by real money allready".

I pay (normaly monthly price) and play to have fun. Cheating, botting, exploiding DESTROY FUN!


Here here, but some dont see it that way. They get their fun by buying stuff, not earning it. So what if you could play for free... and earn it the hard way,(by free i mean no monthly cost, be it isk or money) would you accept people in the game "cheating" if they had to pay for it with real money? Youre playing for free so you shouldnt complain.. they're buying their isk so if anything they're comlpaining youre able to make good isk for free, no ones better than the other. Buying bots would be an intermediate step, for those who dont want to buy isk flat out, and at the same time dont want to earn it the hard way. I wouldnt even call it a bot, lets call it a wingman, hire a wingman to mine for you for $2 , or however many isk.



if there is a ny god ccp will ban this botter.


Dont worry, once CCP starts getting into the bot selling business(just like isk selling) you can be sure those illegitimate botters will get banned.

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.09 15:22:00 - [197]
 

I can't wait for CCP to announce they are banning botting, and then all the anti-plex for remap guys quit the game

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.12.09 15:25:00 - [198]
 

Quote:

Probing down mining sites in high-sec isn't difficult, isn't dangerous, doesn't require high in-game skills and can be very profitable - yet you see many people still mining belts. What should this tell us?
Are miners just dumb, too lazy to use the scanner or does the lack of automation for scanning make these sites so underused?



A miner typically won't have lots of scanning skills nor navigation skills. Miner is also a typically newbie profession, where the guy is surely more in need to grow other skills than probing.
A typically low income profession like mining cannot cohexist with having to jump 10 or so systems to find the one with a grav site.

The low navigation skills make ships require two jumps per system, moving hulks is a slow pain (and the others are way worse).

All of this to find a sparse grav site with few and close-to-worthless amounts of quality minerals.
The same site (seen this many times) after few minutes gets invaded by 10 other miners as well, all digging at those poor 3 hedbergite roids.


Quote:

my own agenda in this whole matter is that I think 0.01 ISK station trading is stupid but necessary



It's not at all.
In RL trading you get to pay from $5 upwards to $10 to trade in basic markets like futures and Forex.
Actually sold futures strategies ("Seahawk") yield $25 profit for $5 per contract, *and this assumes you trade at a profit*.

Imagine if you had to shell up to 20% in broker fees at each market transaction like in RL. This would put bots out of commission F A S T.


Quote:

the client needs some hardcore securing



You can't. It's possible to inject everything you want after the game has un-encrypted itself in memory, checked all you want and then started.
The CPU needs to execute coherent instructions, therefore there will always be something able to intercept that and modify on the fly and much, much more.


Quote:

I'm returning to the game after a long break and this boils up. Everyone knows botting occurs, but if it is so widespread that no 0.0 power block can maintain power without botting I am concerned.



You are right to be concerned because it's the same as doping in sports.
It becomes such a rotten system that those who don't dope cannot compete with the majority that does.
Same in EvE, if an alliance can field endless supercarriers thanks to RMT it WILL win.

Quote:

Realistically though Eve is on the back-burner, as a company CCP really needs to get Dust and WoD out, so not expecting too much is a good bet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sometimes, it really feels like it is...



It's not in the backburner but has peaked. Some great players, alliances and web sites have closed down for good (eve-metrics founder comments are really enlightening about this) because EvE is not the same EvE of once any more.
Raw, unfinished but with so many possibilities, so much to grow, so much potential. Defining new MMO standards.
Now it's just "a" MMO (even if the niche has no real competition), following others ideas (public quests, microtransactions, huge blobs > skill, just having many bigger ships > all, optimizing PvE grind) and it's filling up with "solo farmers" whose maximum horizon in life is to self grind a better self grind ship.


Quote:

has CCP even bothered to say this is a problem or is it true they just dont care about botters



Most recent visible activity: lock threads even mentioning the issue. Putting heads under the sand is not just a politician tactic.

Suitellis
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.12.09 16:20:00 - [199]
 

There is an assembly hall thread up now requesting a Devblog or CCP response on botting. I suggest you support it and show the CSM (who has been strangely absent on the subject) how much we want some kind of correspondence.

Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.12.09 17:02:00 - [200]
 

Down with the machines!

Viva la resistance!

Vitamin B12
Posted - 2010.12.09 17:21:00 - [201]
 

signed

Goparu Prdc3r
Caldari
SILICON LOTUS
Posted - 2010.12.09 17:22:00 - [202]
 

CCP stop bots now! market bots also please!!!!

malkisania
asde solutions
Posted - 2010.12.09 21:51:00 - [203]
 

botting needs to end now, signed

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.09 22:05:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: frog0ut
I can't wait for CCP to announce they are banning botting, and then all the anti-plex for remap guys quit the game


I know you're a troll, but WTF? Shocked

Dyxan
Posted - 2010.12.10 00:25:00 - [205]
 

just finished to see all 3 blogs on evenews24...
really impressive...

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.10 02:17:00 - [206]
 

I don't generally jump on the CCP sucks bandwagon but what can you say this sucks. No wonder plex goes up 40 million a month.

NastyMan AnimalBeast
Posted - 2010.12.10 02:44:00 - [207]
 

Welcome to the war between the people who make software and the people who misuse it.

As long as ingenuity exists and people are trying to find a way to bot they will find it.

Computers are getting very clever at behaving like and doing things that humans do.

I have a friend who operates 8 Characters at a time in Eve without botting how do you propose to differentiate between him and the real botters?

Whatever answer you provide there will be a way around that.

I'm confident that they are doing what they can where they can but also doing it carefully enough to be sure they are not banning legitimate players.



Meridian Siri
Posted - 2010.12.10 03:55:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Michwich
Everyones covered.


For starters, have you any idea the load strain that is and would be put on the servers during bot use?



There's an idea. We can all just set a date, much like Hulkageddon, and:
1) each get mining bots set up on as many accounts as each player who give a **** can manage (include trial accounts, as many as you have PC's for)
2) converge on a single Region/constellation/system.
3) turn them loose and beat the hell out of the server; for days or weeks.

Laughable thought, of course; but it would hilarious to see the population in eve hold constant for all hours at about two to three times the record for a week or two. If no action from the developers, make the problem obvious. It would also provide some nice entertainment for the suicide gankers Wink



Verx Interis
Amarr
SkyNet.
Posted - 2010.12.10 04:47:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Verx Interis on 10/12/2010 04:49:42
Originally by: riverini
Edited by: riverini on 06/12/2010 00:08:19
Good evening, NEW EDEN. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of PVE repetition. I enjoy them as much as any carebear. But in the spirit of condenation, thereby those important revelations of today usually associated with someone's botting or the end of some awful bloody RMT struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this December the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat.

There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into the batphones, and CTA’s against me and forum moderators will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power.

Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this GAME, isn't there? RMT and injustice BOTTING, tolerance and COMPLACENCE. And where once you had the freedom to make a profit, to play and enjoy as you saw fit, you now have ENDLESS HORDES OF BOTS and THEY ALLIANCE LEADERS AND REGULAR PLAYERS coercing EVEN INTO conformity and soliciting ITS submission.

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? BANNINGS, RMT, AND CEOS. There were a myriad of RMTS which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your GAME. Loath got the best of you, and in your loath you turned to the now biggest patronisers of this treachery: THE CSM AND CCP. They promised you order, They promised you NO LAG, and all they demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent of the BOTTING and RMT operations. Last night we sought to end that silence. Last night we disclosed the the confession of a seasoned RMT player, to remind this GAME of what it has forgotten AND WHAT HAZ it complaced into. More than four years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of December forever in our memory. His hope was to remind NEW EDEN that fairness, justice, and freedom of BOTTING are more than words, they are perspectives.

So if you've seen nothing, if the SCANDAL of this RMTs remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of December to pass unmarked.

But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one THIS NEXT WEEK, outside THIS PORTAL INTO to all major MMORPG outlets, and together we shall give them a month of December that shall never, ever be forgot.

German Giggles ShockedShockedShocked
riverini YARRRR!!

Quick facts: 1bil RMT is bought on the black market @$20 - $30 USD, do your math.

TL;DR: CCP IS BEING COMPLACENT ABOUT TE BOTTING BCZ THEY'LL LOSE A HUGE SHARE OF THE GTC MARKET IF THEY WERE TO BAN THEM, THIS HOWEVER IS KILLING THE GAME for honest ppl who play the game as they should. as proven before we can't expect CCP to move a finger until some duder from a major news outlet shows some of this, else they don't care about the honest gamers (ref. see lag +18 months)

R


What the **** did I just read?

Edit: This has the propaganda-like aura of trying to make something appear like a huge giant epic threat while having no rationalization for such a thing.

Ash Donai
Minmatar
Kanu Industries
Posted - 2010.12.10 05:40:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: riverini
THIS HOWEVER IS KILLING THE GAME for honest ppl who play the game as they should


Confirming that after 7 years in the running the game has been killed by RMTers!
Rolling Eyes


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