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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.03.13 00:54:00 - [1681]
 

I may have seen a bot today. Our fleet started setting up in a belt and someone warped into the middle and started mining. A bump and a question in local got no response. I started mining roids out from under him, using scanner to time the cycles so I get all the ore. Eventually he got enough himself and warped off. I expected that would be the last of him, if he was a player.

But back he came, to the same spot. Eventually we mined out all the rids in his range and he left for good.

Based on behavior it was either a very clueless player or a bot. It was not just a simple "timer" bot, he warped out right away when all roids in range were gone, so if a bot, it was screen scraping or reading client memory.

Got him on the watchlist....

Paul Mustaka Hekard
Posted - 2011.03.13 01:50:00 - [1682]
 

You can go further than that. Please file at Report Bots. While it may seem futile, some folks like blowing them up ;)

Christos Hendez
Warhamsters
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.03.13 03:30:00 - [1683]
 

rabble rabble rabble RMT rabble rabble rabble

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.13 05:34:00 - [1684]
 

Oh thank god almighty, he finally changed "feed" to "fed".

Thank you, riverini.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.03.13 08:52:00 - [1685]
 

I see we finally scared off the CCP guy... guess I as right when I guessed he's ignore the issue like everyone else.

Welcome to the company dude, now that you know how it works, looks like yer gonna fit right in.

CRA5HD0WN
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.13 09:24:00 - [1686]
 

this can be solved effectively.

Sansha incursion hot drop the bot miners.




Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.03.13 09:51:00 - [1687]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
I see we finally scared off the CCP guy... guess I as right when I guessed he's ignore the issue like everyone else.

Welcome to the company dude, now that you know how it works, looks like yer gonna fit right in.


Well I bet they got little better things to do than sit on the forums every day and reply to everything we post here.

...like doing something to fix the actual problem that is.

I can't see how he is ignoring the issue by promising more info to be released during fanfest.

...but perhaps you disagree.

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.03.13 10:02:00 - [1688]
 

Just to quote here 1st post from [evenews24.com] iskbank.com exposed (Updated fri, 11. mar) so that we have here all important data.

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 12/03/2011 14:06:14

Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com exposed
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/in-isk-we-trust-iskbank-com-exposed-thousand-of-customers-outed/

Evenews24.com - Client list
http://www.evenews24.com/2010/03/09/iskbank-com-client-list/

Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com/ru Client List: Revised Edition
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/11/iskbank-com-client-list-revised-edition/

Evenews24.com - official revised Iskbank customer list @ googledocs
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atu22IqpENk5dFMzMzAwWTdNX1lXelVpUUFlOWt0U1E&hl=en&authkey=CNK1-84L

Evenews24.com article - Customers speak out
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/10/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/

GM Grimmi's comment about the issue
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1479579&page=5#132

Related:

CCP Sreegs posts about rmt, botting and upcoming announcements in fanfest.
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1426740/author/CCP%20Sreegs

TenTonHammer article - The Daily Grind: Have you ever bought gold?
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03/12/the-daily-grind-have-you-ever-bought-gold/

Elsewhere:

Massively article - EVE ISK buyers outed in database leak
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03/10/eve-isk-buyers-outed-in-database-leak/#

Slashdot article - In Isk We Trust: the EVE Online IskBank Exposed
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1712207/In-Isk-We-Trust-the-EVE-Online-IskBank-Exposed

mmorpg.com article - EVE Online News - Iskbank.com Exposed
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/19890/Iskbankcom-Exposed

TenTonHammer article - EVENews24 Exposes Iskbank Scandal, Thousands of Customers Outed
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/96325


Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.03.13 10:50:00 - [1689]
 

On a side note, there seems to be some discussion about bans on this other forum. Apparently, there is some relation to the usage of snakes.
If true, then GJ CCP!Twisted Evil

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.03.13 12:47:00 - [1690]
 

Originally by: Aquila Draco

Massively article - EVE ISK buyers outed in database leak
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03/10/eve-isk-buyers-outed-in-database-leak/#

Slashdot article - In Isk We Trust: the EVE Online IskBank Exposed
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1712207/In-Isk-We-Trust-the-EVE-Online-IskBank-Exposed

mmorpg.com article - EVE Online News - Iskbank.com Exposed
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/19890/Iskbankcom-Exposed

TenTonHammer article - EVENews24 Exposes Iskbank Scandal, Thousands of Customers Outed
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/96325



Heh 4 major games sites reporting on RMT, Botting and EvE.

Can't be good for CCP's reputation.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.13 13:10:00 - [1691]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Heh 4 major games sites reporting on RMT, Botting and EvE.

Can't be good for CCP's reputation.


It gives them a bad reputation compared to what games?, most/all of the major mmo's have bot/RMT problems. Blizzzard spend most of the last expansion trying to fight hackers stealing gold from players and guilds, i've not played aion online but from what i've heard they also have huge problems with bots.

It did'nt get publicity because it's a unique problem that only exists in eve, the incident got publicity because it's probably the first time a RMT site was hacked and the customer database leaked on the internet.

Ronan Astrum
Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing
The Paganism Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.13 15:19:00 - [1692]
 

Originally by: Selinate
Oh thank god almighty, he finally changed "feed" to "fed".

Thank you, riverini.


i thought the exact same thing Very Happy

Jojo Jackson
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.13 17:50:00 - [1693]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Originally by: moneykeeper
Quote pyramid



You are WRONG, most of the botting is done in empire, we are releasing an article soon on that.

Well if you use capslock, how can I possibly disagree? =P

Will be interesting reading the article. Whilst more botting may be done in empire, I highly doubt the empire bots are pulling the 800mil+ per day per bot that the 0.0 ones are. Mining no chance, mission bots might make a more significant contribution however.

Will await the new article with interest....


The easiest bot might be the trade bot.
Sit in Jita and do nothing then check sell/buy orders of a croup of item. They have buy/sell limits and adjust the price by 0.01 ISK Cent every 4 minutes (CCP time limit).

Most people will NEVER notice this bots as they never undock. And I bet there are a minimum of 100 just in Jita not counting all the other trade hubs.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.03.13 18:02:00 - [1694]
 

I have an alt in Jita and traded against those. Its quite annoying. But I notice that the ones that update every 5 minutes are few and far between. I think most trading bot owners quickly learn to have it update once every few hours, better simulating a player, to make it much harder to detect.

Janos Saal
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.13 18:43:00 - [1695]
 

I saw some botters by the asteroid belt recently. I steered clear of them!
Disgusting creatures! I hope to never see another!

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.03.14 02:51:00 - [1696]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Heh 4 major games sites reporting on RMT, Botting and EvE.

Can't be good for CCP's reputation.


It gives them a bad reputation compared to what games?, most/all of the major mmo's have bot/RMT problems. Blizzzard spend most of the last expansion trying to fight hackers stealing gold from players and guilds, i've not played aion online but from what i've heard they also have huge problems with bots.

It did'nt get publicity because it's a unique problem that only exists in eve, the incident got publicity because it's probably the first time a RMT site was hacked and the customer database leaked on the internet.

It gives them a bad reputation because when people read those articles, they get linked to other articles, or are made aware of, the apathy and neglect that CCP has towards RMT and botters.

CCP is rather unique in that they have painted themselves into a corner, where legal isk for cash, legal character transfers and illegal RMT and botting are all working together to prop up CCP.

Where other games companies are actively working against RMT and botters, CCP is actively working with RMT and botters, even if its not an intentional thing, it is what it is.

And lastly, any press is bad press, its highly likely that a person who is not a cheat, reading the article on EvE on those 4 sites, will decide against signing up, simply because they will have the impression that the game will be too hard without forking out rl cash or because they dislike cheating in games.

So once again, yes, Bad Press for CCP.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.14 04:49:00 - [1697]
 

Edited by: dexington on 14/03/2011 04:51:43
I think you are mostly expressing you personal opinion on RMT and how CCP is handling that problem, which right or wrong is not supported by the information in the news stories. The articles are all about the leaking of the iskbank customer database, and have really nothing to do with the RMT/bot problem of eve or the size of the problem.

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
It gives them a bad reputation because when people read those articles, they get linked to other articles, or are made aware of, the apathy and neglect that CCP has towards RMT and botters.


Not one of the articles you refer to comments on what CCP does or does not do to stop RMT, or comment on the size of the problem within the eve universe. One article has the comment "CCP's response was the predictable "no comment" style approach, which is standard for most companies as they work to deal with RMT issues.", which make it seem like CCP is doing the same as every other company.

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
CCP is rather unique in that they have painted themselves into a corner, where legal isk for cash, legal character transfers and illegal RMT and botting are all working together to prop up CCP.

Where other games companies are actively working against RMT and botters, CCP is actively working with RMT and botters, even if its not an intentional thing, it is what it is.


I can't seem to find any support for this is any of the articles, i can be wrong be i don't recall seeing any comments on legal sale of isk or transfer of characters. Feel free to prove me wrong and point out where it's said that CCP is working with botters and RMT sites.

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
And lastly, any press is bad press, its highly likely that a person who is not a cheat, reading the article on EvE on those 4 sites, will decide against signing up, simply because they will have the impression that the game will be too hard without forking out rl cash or because they dislike cheating in games.

So once again, yes, Bad Press for CCP.


It's also said "There is no such thing as bad publicity". I think it's safe to assume that anyone reading the articles already playing an mmo, is playing one with just as many botters, hackers and cheaters. If someone is looking to try eve it's presumptious to assume they are going to change their mind because because a news story informs about RMT. Anyways this is just guessing, no of us know how or even if this is going to affect CCP/EVE.


Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.03.14 05:43:00 - [1698]
 

The Cylon invasion is getting out of hand. Sad

Paul Mustaka Hekard
Posted - 2011.03.14 05:49:00 - [1699]
 

Just spent the day hanging out in a 0.9 sec system. Sad Watched a fleet of bestowers run non-stop; same guys. No response to bumping, targeting, convo, etc. Checked the belts; the only two hulk pilots I found had no response to bumping, convo, identical warp-in patterns. No matter how much I bumped them back, they just pushing towards those 'roids.

Pretty sickening to realize that in a system with 15 to 20 toons in it, I was the only one that wasn't a macro. While I realized that macros were in use, until I started looking around, I didn't realize how flagrant and widespread it was; hell these guys use names that were rolled off of an assembly line. There is no conceivable way that CCP can not be aware of the hot-spots. It is not like they are hard to find. Once again; disgusting and dispiriting.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.14 06:01:00 - [1700]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Heh 4 major games sites reporting on RMT, Botting and EvE.

Can't be good for CCP's reputation.


It gives them a bad reputation compared to what games?, most/all of the major mmo's have bot/RMT problems. Blizzzard spend most of the last expansion trying to fight hackers stealing gold from players and guilds, i've not played aion online but from what i've heard they also have huge problems with bots.


It gives them a bad reputation because the other companies you cited are actively fighting against that behavior instead of condoning it (if not enabling it) like CCP does.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.14 07:33:00 - [1701]
 

Edited by: dexington on 14/03/2011 07:34:22
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
It gives them a bad reputation because the other companies you cited are actively fighting against that behavior instead of condoning it (if not enabling it) like CCP does.


Blizzard has the most played mmo in the world and they have just as many problems with bots, and alot more problems with account getting hacked. It got bad in TBC and alot worse in WOTLK, i stopped playing wow in the last weeks of WOTLK and the situation was pretty much this, people where complaining that they received scam emails, scam messages in-game, accounts hacked cleaned out and used as bots, bots being active weeks after they had been reported, and the list goes on.

The trade channel was constantly filled with spam from RMT sites, and RMT sites even used exploits to make character float in the air so they could use them to make animated 3D advertisements in the major cities. People reporting bots by name had their threads closed by admins for breaking the naming and shaming rules, and if treads got a response it was always something like "we are working on the problem.".

If they are actively fighting bots and rmt it have had no effect for the previous 2 expansions where things just got worse and worse, the only reason things seem better in wow is because they don't have the same player driven market as eve.


pcydo
Posted - 2011.03.14 15:14:00 - [1702]
 

Free bump because bots are still there.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2011.03.14 18:04:00 - [1703]
 

Originally by: Cyrus Doul
ibtl


Hehe i had to post this beauty.. post number 2... Boy were u wrong! Laughing

but back on topic... personally i'd like to see the gtc for isk thing go away as well, way too easy to abuse your daddies platinum card and get a leg up in eve... Confused

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.03.14 22:15:00 - [1704]
 

Originally by: riverini
Edited by: riverini on 11/03/2011 16:06:28
title fixed...


noooooo... Sad
that was a feature of this thread...

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.14 23:22:00 - [1705]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: DonHel
Is there any way to report bots and actually have something done, or do we have to watch them do it everyday and just live with it. And just occasionally pop their hulks/covetors/retrievers and watch thier pods warp back n forth? I have been watching someones bots for like 10 days now, and am planning to gank them to hell everyday for a bit. But it's in a 0.8 so i can only do it so much before i become an eveil pirate dude bieng shot at by gate guns n such lol


Part of what we're trying to get done is achieving precisely this. As I said, solving the problem has multiple angles to it, one of which is being able to properly follow through and action on reports by players and on top of that repeat offenders. It's not to say there's not some of this going on today but it could be done a lot better. We have a solution to that and as soon as we're ready to implement (like REALLY soon) I'll let you guys know.


Hey Sreegs,

First, welcome to CCP and welcome to one heck of a grumble and gripe session on behalf of human players. I sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your day to read and respond to many of the concerns that have been raised here in this thread. Your contributions to this thread, to CCP and to solving the problem are welcomed and encouraged. For some time now we have asked CCP for a 'right-click -> report bot' kind of solution. Lacking that, as you may know, I implemented a website (www.reportbots.com) to aid players in filing the petitions CCP can then use to help resolve the problems in whatever ways they can. Having worked with the GMs to ascertain their needs and continually working with the players to ascertain their needs, I came up with the best solution I could not working for CCP myself ;)

I'm presuming from your responses here that all will be revealed (well, 'all' being relative lol) at and after fanfest. I look forward to finding out the steps CCP are taking and how we, as players, may be able to help reinforce the initiative CCP puts forth. I have noticed an elevated response by CCP to this problem in a more general way recently - in short many of the bots being reported are being taken seriously and many of them have gone away from the game for days and weeks now. So, Kudos to CCP for producing some results I can see.

As you yourself have stated this isn't a problem that came about overnight and I think we all understand it isn't a problem that will go away overnight either. It's a cat and mouse game - and you're the cat (unless, of course, you prefer to squeak)! :) That being said, I also want to note that your presence here in the forums, while not a paid activity of your position with CCP, is very sincerely appreciated. As a new(er) member of CCP and one of the few to ever respond in a real way to this problem, you, unfortunately, are getting the brunt of frustration some players have been expressing for years, all rolled down into one post ;) Please forgive us if we offend you - our frustration is not with you, per se, it is with CCP and the (apparent) lack of commitment from them. Your presence at CCP, and the presence of a team of security professionals working on the bot and exploit problem is, at long last, reassuring to those of us whose fists of rage are yet not enough to rid the universe of the scummy underbelly that has invaded it.

In short... keep up the great work bud! And hurry up with a right-click -> report bot solution eh? I have other things I could be doing with that web space and domain... err... not sure what... reportbots.com is kinda specific after all... but I'll come up with something ;) lol.

I look forward to reading and hearing more from your team and CCP on how they will address this problem moving forward. Thank you for your efforts to both quell the growing tide of disdain and to help us to help you to help CCP rid this otherwise awesome game of it's scourge.


Kireiina
Posted - 2011.03.15 02:37:00 - [1706]
 

Originally by: Freelanc3r
Hi riverini

Look how dumb you are considering the NC are the biggest RMT buyers on iskbank, perhaps you should start with your own alliance then your coalition first.



If they are buying isk they are probably not botting.

If they are buying isk the only person who should really care is CCP because they're not getting their cut compared to the legal way of buying isk.

The problem is the bots that generated that Isk and generated game-breaking amounts of resources making it pointless for human players to compete.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.03.15 03:42:00 - [1707]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
A big post that I can't quote :(



Hey guy thanks for the kind words. I didn't run away from the thread or anything there's just

A) Only so much to say at the moment with Fanfest a week or so away
B) A lot more of you guys than there are of me
C) I was traveling last week which minimizes my posting time

I was aware of your site and found it very useful from a few perspectives that if I don't remember to mention at Fanfest I'll be happy to discuss with you in person if you're attending. If not just bump the thread after or post in the dev blog and I'll get into some more detail.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.03.15 03:45:00 - [1708]
 

Edited by: CCP Sreegs on 15/03/2011 03:45:55
Originally by: 0Lona 0ltor
CCP is a disgrace. When is the next EVE convention in the UK I plan to go dressed as a bot/robot and **** all CCP persons off. Would be epic if we ruined a meeting and got in the game mags as a protest against CCP not tackling the bot problem.


I will buy a beer for the first person I see dressed as a robot at Fanfest. (not because you're mad but because I like robots)

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.15 04:51:00 - [1709]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Consortium Agent
A big post that I can't quote :(



Hey guy thanks for the kind words. I didn't run away from the thread or anything there's just

A) Only so much to say at the moment with Fanfest a week or so away
B) A lot more of you guys than there are of me
C) I was traveling last week which minimizes my posting time

I was aware of your site and found it very useful from a few perspectives that if I don't remember to mention at Fanfest I'll be happy to discuss with you in person if you're attending. If not just bump the thread after or post in the dev blog and I'll get into some more detail.


Sadly I have a prior commitment to teach an Adobe OOP code camp this month so I will be unable to attend fanfest :( Sad panda. I'd have dressed like a robot (plastered with reportbots.com, ofc) just for the beer too! lol

I'll hit ya up after fanfest and get the details if you don't mention them elsewhere. Thanks again!

PC l0adletter
Posted - 2011.03.15 07:46:00 - [1710]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Consortium Agent
A big post that I can't quote :(



Hey guy thanks for the kind words. I didn't run away from the thread or anything there's just

A) Only so much to say at the moment with Fanfest a week or so away
B) A lot more of you guys than there are of me
C) I was traveling last week which minimizes my posting time

I was aware of your site and found it very useful from a few perspectives that if I don't remember to mention at Fanfest I'll be happy to discuss with you in person if you're attending. If not just bump the thread after or post in the dev blog and I'll get into some more detail.


Heya, Sreegs,

Can you comment on the six bots in ETO-OT, Spire, that have been merrily logged in 23/7? They were petitioned and discussed over a month ago in the EN24 article. Here's the screenshot with the names: http://evenews24.com/riverini/other_guys/fromage/2011.02.06.05.59.jpg

They're still there, farming away.


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