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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.28 18:30:00 - [1321]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 18:30:19
Originally by: Furb Killer
When botters are killed (irl) then they wont buy t2 anymore, same supply, less demand = lower prices.


Well, you have to admit Mineral prices will rise, along with the value of loot (it's made of minerals), increasing the price of everything a bit,
and increasing the earnings of most people a bit.

Yeah, basicly nothing changes for the worse, really.
Maybe .. just MAYBE T1 production will be viable again?

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.28 18:34:00 - [1322]
 

to your information - excessive ISK from botting, => inflation, battleships cost 90 mill a piece, then 100 mill, then even 110 mill.

As more people get involved in botting, they go on market and buy equipment. They have higher income in ISKs, so casual players find it more difficult to buy equipment.

IT can be observed in PLEX and Character market too, influx of ISKs devalues the currency. Everything takes more isk, isk value goes down.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.28 18:41:00 - [1323]
 

Originally by: Opertone
to your information - excessive ISK from botting, => inflation, battleships cost 90 mill a piece, then 100 mill, then even 110 mill.

As more people get involved in botting, they go on market and buy equipment. They have higher income in ISKs, so casual players find it more difficult to buy equipment.

IT can be observed in PLEX and Character market too, influx of ISKs devalues the currency. Everything takes more isk, isk value goes down.



Aggravated by the fact that botters devalue minerals (mining bots) at the same time they cause ISK inflation (ratting bots).
I'm not smart enough to draw a conclusion from that but I think it's very bad.

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:42:00 - [1324]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 19:43:45
Originally by: Opertone
to your information - excessive ISK from botting, => inflation, battleships cost 90 mill a piece, then 100 mill, then even 110 mill.

As more people get involved in botting, they go on market and buy equipment. They have higher income in ISKs, so casual players find it more difficult to buy equipment.

IT can be observed in PLEX and Character market too, influx of ISKs devalues the currency. Everything takes more isk, isk value goes down.



actually the opposite happens. since botters dont buy battleship or any of the fittings they dont contribute to demand. only in the hulk and crystal areas. However, they flood the market with vastly more minerals than is really needed, causing the price to drop, which translates into lower costs for the production of the battleships and fittings and CAN (most likely does) translate into all of those items being cheaper.


but to the point that bots have alts which use the isk for their PvP ships etc. you are right. but i still dont care as 1. i cannot see the demand from pvp mains outwieghing the massive extra supply - unless they also pvp 23/7. 2. it also means that everyone else can pvp more - which keeps the market going and the indy;s happy.

i do get the point that large alliances hold more sov than they should be able to based on their botting prowess. if i were the lead of a well organized alliance with T2 BPOs and moon mining POSs all set up and churning day and night, yet simply couldn't get more room to grow in nullsec because all the local territory was claimed by a huge botting alliance that wasn't willing to cut deals, then i would be ****ed too.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:53:00 - [1325]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 19:53:17
Originally by: Arnakoz
actually the opposite happens. since botters dont buy battleship or any of the fittings they dont contribute to demand. only in the hulk and crystal areas. However, they flood the market with vastly more minerals than is really needed, causing the price to drop, which translates into lower costs for the production of the battleships and fittings and CAN (most likely does) translate into all of those items being cheaper.


You miss the point spectacularly.
1) Ratting Bots commonly fly Battleships.
2) Lower Mineral prices don't only mean stuff is cheaper - it also means the common player earns LESS.
At best this keeps prices stable, but most likely causing stuff to cost more effective ISK which in itself becomes less valuable due to botting.

Originally by: Arnakoz
but to the point that bots have alts which use the isk for their PvP ships etc. you are right. but i still dont care as 1. i cannot see the demand from pvp mains outwieghing the massive extra supply - unless they also pvp 23/7. 2. it also means that everyone else can pvp more - which keeps the market going and the indy;s happy.


Same as above:
1) Those who bot for PvP pretty much PvP exclusively, all the time. Something they couldn't afford otherwise.
2) You can PvP more against people you cannot defeat by causing significant losses while you certainly lose ISK.
Lose - Lose situation.

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:11:00 - [1326]
 

Originally by: Angel of Night
Originally by: Arnakoz

all I'm trying to say is that bots are already integral to our eve experience and can't be gotten rid of. so why care?..


Really simple and short answer is 'better overall pvp balance, more interesting and appealing 0.0 space, more active community'.




Let's try to stay on the topic again... The first 2 lines above explain in nutshell what the real problem is and the last 2 lines introduce the game without first 2 lines.

Now... we either want to get rid of 1st 2 lines or last 2 lines. How and why are good questions. Market talk and blame game won't take us anywhere.

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:13:00 - [1327]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 21:28:16
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 19:53:17

You miss the point spectacularly.
1) Ratting Bots commonly fly Battleships.
2) Lower Mineral prices don't only mean stuff is cheaper - it also means the common player earns LESS.
At best this keeps prices stable, but most likely causing stuff to cost more effective ISK which in itself becomes less valuable due to botting.


i see your point there. i hadn't considered ratting bots. i'm sure those players that use macros would have never bought any of that stuff if it weren't for the macros. besides, are ratting bots even common? i can't say i've ever seen/suspected one.

and yes, manufacturers earn less, but everyone else saves on their purchases. however, if minerals prices went UP due to less supply then the manufacturers would also make less..... so not sure which way is worse tbh.
but with that said, i'm not even sure if the bots are fully responsible for the prices of end product being low, as lots of players think mined ore == free and sell at a loss. but either way.


Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 19:53:17
Same as above:
1) Those who bot for PvP pretty much PvP exclusively, all the time. Something they couldn't afford otherwise.
2) You can PvP more against people you cannot defeat by causing significant losses while you certainly lose ISK.
Lose - Lose situation.


right, but "PvP exclusively" still doesn't mean anything unless they lose a LOT more ships than they would have otherwise. which i'm sure they loose "more ships" but i'm saying they dont loose enough to outwiegh the effect that their bots have. think of it this way - you have 100 lbs pulling up and 1000 pulling down. yes, their is an upwards force, but it isn't accomplishing much.

but yes, pvp against a person who has a large income sucks. and if it boils down to people having otherwise equal skills and abilities then yes it becomes an ISK game, at which point botting sucks.


edit:now that i think more about the rat botting aspect - that would only really occur in nullsec. which, in most cases at least, has little to no bearing on the rest of the market. things out there aren't really priced on whats happening elsewhere - it has more to do with how far away the next cheaper item is. so no, i wouldn't say it is doing much to increase demand in the market as a whole.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:11:00 - [1328]
 

I asked these before but did not get an answer.

Are the bots so prevalent that we no longer have a player driven economy?

CCP advertises that EVE has a player driven economy. If this is not true, is CCP breaking the law by engaging in false advertising?

Is there a government agency that needs to be notified?

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:21:00 - [1329]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
I asked these before but did not get an answer.

Are the bots so prevalent that we no longer have a player driven economy?

CCP advertises that EVE has a player driven economy. If this is not true, is CCP breaking the law by engaging in false advertising?


Hard to venture an at least somewhat educated guess.
I think it's still mostly player run, botting shouldn't account for more than 20-30% of goods generated.
Worst case I can imagine atm. is a 50% share.
There are certain things Bots categorically don't do, altho they might support many such things with ISK/Minerals.

Originally by: Vincent Athena
Is there a government agency that needs to be notified?


Interpol might be interested in hearing about potential money laundering and tax evasion through RMT.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:55:00 - [1330]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa

Well, you have to admit Mineral prices will rise, along with the value of loot (it's made of minerals)


Meta 1-4 not so much. Theyre drop only so that wouldnt matter and that stuff id better than the meta 0 stuff so I actually dont think this stuff would change.

Bloody Rabbit
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:58:00 - [1331]
 

CCP,

Lets not point fingers at who or what, just start restricting accounts after they are caught botting. So that the account can not sign-in till they speak to a GM. That way it will hassle them and hopefully get the semi-pro botters out of botting so that you can focus on cracking down on the pro botters that RMT.

If you put in a program that would restrict accounts caught botting then you could do a PR push to get players to report botting. Currently the player base doesn't care to report as there is little in the way of action. By action I mean reporting the same players over and over as they warp around with a pod and still those same players are on day after day. Fix the botting issue and you will fix most of the RMT issues; don't fix botting and you won't fix RMT and you can kiss EVE goodbye as players do not wish to compete with those who have endless resources from botting.

Sincerely,

A player who currently has 7 accounts being cut down to 5 and possible quitting all together.

PS I have been playing eve since late 06, I am tired of competing against those who use bots so they can have endless resources and this is coming from a player with over 100 billion in isk and assets.

PSS all assets will go to a former corp if I do quit so don't ask YARRRR!!

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:01:00 - [1332]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Meta 1-4 not so much. Theyre drop only so that wouldnt matter and that stuff id better than the meta 0 stuff so I actually dont think this stuff would change.


This holds true for Meta 4 and sometimes 3, but 1 and 2 tend to be only worth their mineral contents.

Bloody Rabbit
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:05:00 - [1333]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa

Hard to venture an at least somewhat educated guess.
I think it's still mostly player run, botting shouldn't account for more than 20-30% of goods generated.
Worst case I can imagine atm. is a 50% share.
There are certain things Bots categorically don't do, altho they might support many such things with ISK/Minerals.

Interpol might be interested in hearing about potential money laundering and tax evasion through RMT.


First current software trading platforms are trading stock markets and bond markets in real life so there is nothing that players can do that bots can not do. Second, governments don't care about a game that can't break a billion in revenue across the globe so, no, there is no government that would care about RMT in a game.

Lets focus on the RMT and botting as it effects the players and what the players will do in response if it is not fixed.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:07:00 - [1334]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Meta 1-4 not so much. Theyre drop only so that wouldnt matter and that stuff id better than the meta 0 stuff so I actually dont think this stuff would change.


This holds true for Meta 4 and sometimes 3, but 1 and 2 tend to be only worth their mineral contents.


so.... where do I get the BPOs for them? cause so far as Im constantly told you cant an theyre drop only

cause if you cant construct them then they have no mineral contents...
or are you talking reprocessing?
Thats a bit suspect... I have yet to reprocess a arbelest heavy launcher and get 14 plus million in minerals out of it

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:29:00 - [1335]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 01/03/2011 00:34:40
in my experience, most of the faction type stuff is gotten through random rat droppings (rarely) faction rats (which are even more rare) and mostly as rewards from missions and purchased with LP.

and i think he's talking about refined value.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:36:00 - [1336]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 01/03/2011 00:38:05
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
so.... where do I get the BPOs for them? cause so far as Im constantly told you cant an theyre drop only

cause if you cant construct them then they have no mineral contents...
or are you talking reprocessing?
Thats a bit suspect... I have yet to reprocess a arbelest heavy launcher and get 14 plus million in minerals out of it


BPOs don't normally exist from what I can tell. Capital modules might be an exception. I'm not a researcher or manufacturer.

And yes, I talk about reprocessing. Arbalest is Meta 4 - I said Meta 1 and 2 commonly only cost their value in minerals.
You chose Heavy Launchers as an example, the most skewed item category in Jita, hence, even if the Meta 1 Launcher was worth more than its reprocess:
it's irrelevant since what I said is true for >90% of all common items.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:43:00 - [1337]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 01/03/2011 00:44:38
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Second, governments don't care about a game that can't break a billion in revenue across the globe so, no, there is no government that would care about RMT in a game.


Since when is Interpol a government? Besides, I just tried to answer his question.
Did I say FBI, Gendarmerie or any such bull****? No, I said Interpol.

Have a look at their homepage.
I didn't say they would be very interested, but they wouldn't tell you to shut your piehole either, especially if it turns out that some people finance their life through RMT without paying taxes - or worse, use RMT for money laundering - which is easy.

Why do you think CCP hates RMT?

#Edit: I also just netted post 1337 in this thread. YARRRR!!

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:44:00 - [1338]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 01/03/2011 00:59:31
Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 01/03/2011 00:54:44
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 01/03/2011 00:38:05
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
so.... where do I get the BPOs for them? cause so far as Im constantly told you cant an theyre drop only

cause if you cant construct them then they have no mineral contents...
or are you talking reprocessing?
Thats a bit suspect... I have yet to reprocess a arbelest heavy launcher and get 14 plus million in minerals out of it


BPOs don't normally exist from what I can tell. Capital modules might be an exception. I'm not a researcher or manufacturer.

And yes, I talk about reprocessing. Arbalest is Meta 4 - I said Meta 1 and 2 commonly only cost their value in minerals.
You chose Heavy Launchers as an example, the most skewed item category in Jita, hence, even if the Meta 1 Launcher was worth more than its reprocess:
it's irrelevant since what I said is true for >90% of all common items.


oook.... gimme a sec while I try that theory out withj the load of stuff Im about to sell/resprocess in about 5 min...

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:46:00 - [1339]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 01/03/2011 00:48:57
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
oook.... gimme a sec while I try that theory out withj the load of stuff Im about to sell/resprocess in about 5 min...


It's not wise to do so blindly and risk your ISK, make a reprocessing spreadsheet or the like.
I know my business.

Also, odds are you don't have perfect reprocess (100%, no tax).

You cannot prove wrong what I know to be true. Wink
And I'm not liable for any misinterpretation of generalisation.
My typing time is limited, there's always exceptions in both directions.

But now: shooo. Razz

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:51:00 - [1340]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
I asked these before but did not get an answer.

Are the bots so prevalent that we no longer have a player driven economy?

CCP advertises that EVE has a player driven economy. If this is not true, is CCP breaking the law by engaging in false advertising?

Is there a government agency that needs to be notified?


Technically speaking, a bot is still a player - so even if this was a zombie MMO with only bots - the economy would still be able to be called 'player driven'. It's all in how you define 'player'.

That being said, only CCP knows for sure how much effect the bots have on the eve economy, however, I would venture a guess that it's significant - perhaps 20-30% overall, probably higher in localized markets where bots are more prevalent.

As for the prices of items going up, as someone else mentioned, this is always the case before Fanfest since CCP started allowing folks to pay their way in PLEX - people want to earn more ISK to buy PLEX to go to fanfest. Just before fanfest PLEX will rise sharply to the 480-500m range (which is, coincidentally a good time to be selling PLEX lol). It has almost nothing to do with botting, save for the devalued minerals. Besides, the markets are so easy to manipulate if you know what you're doing it's not even funny. Someone mentioned the guys who sell stuff for less than it costs to produce... shhh! We don't want them to know any better. It's better for us marketeers if they don't! ;P lol

However, markets are also localized, don't forget, so shopping around for a good price will still yield good results. Also, patience yields good results. Don't want to pay 90M for that battleship? Put in an order for 80M and be patient. Someone will eventually fill it. Hell, put it for 50M and someone will, eventually, fill it - probably one of those folks selling below cost <g>. Which, by the way, selling below cost was an issue from day zero with Eve and has nothing to do with botters devaluing minerals - it has everything to do with people not wanting to do basic math, or being smart enough to download one of the myriad of free applications that will tell you how much you need to sell your goods for to make a profit. And it has a lot to do with instant gratification.

As for the eve economy 'tanking' if you take bots out of the picture, I doubt the effects would be so significant or severe - partly because CCP will never pull the virtual rug out from under all the bots at once, and partly because there are enough human players to keep the markets fairly stable. Like I said, if you know what you're doing in the markets you a) don't need bots and b) can make a ton of ISK off the people who don't know what they're doing. The other thing to consider is that CCP itself has made significant changes to the markets during almost every release - either by adding items, modifying items (to make them more or less desireable) or removing items. They also introduce and take away missions and complexes. None of these things seriously affected the economy in a negative way for a prolonged period of time. These changes were all absorbed by the community and we just kept on chugging along. So, killing off the bots will not kill the economy IMHO.

What we should be concerned about, however, is how much ISK CCP is 'printing', as it were. That's where it hurts the economy the most. Mission and rat bots collecting rewards and bounties probably do more to hurt the Eve economy than miner bots devaluing minerals. None of it is good, frankly, but from an economical standpoint I think the ISK CCP prints to give away to those kinds of botters does significantly more damage by devaluing ISK itself (it's economics 101 - you print more money it makes the money less valuable). That's my only true economic concern.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:53:00 - [1341]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa


#Edit: I also just netted post 1337 in this thread. YARRRR!!


lol nice!

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:58:00 - [1342]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 01/03/2011 01:16:22

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa


Also, odds are you don't have perfect reprocess (100%, no tax).



I actually DO have no tax, and Im only a couple skills off scrapmetal processing.
out of curiosity, does that ONLY work with the scrap metal or does that increase minerals gotten from mods too?

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa

You cannot prove wrong what I know to be true. Wink
And I'm not liable for any misinterpretation of generalisation.
My typing time is limited, there's always exceptions in both directions.



lol... "you cannot prove wrong what I know is true and if Im wrong then its not my fault cause there are exceptions."

Nice rationalization
however, yes yer right. *snip* you have a point

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:03:00 - [1343]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 01/03/2011 01:04:44
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
*snip*


Become rich and don't ever talk about it again. Razz

And yes, the Scrapmetal skill works with everything but ore.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:07:00 - [1344]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
Originally by: Lithalnas


If you banned by CPUID then the botters would have to change out CPU's every time they are banned or hack the client to auto OK the check. But if i remember correctly, intel implemented these functionalities in a sort of non spoof-able manor to prevent CPU re-branding.


Don't quote me, but I would hazard a guess that CPU ID can be spoofed.


Anything can be spoofed but with CPUIDs, not every BIOS gives that up so binding a client instance to it has a very good chance of failure just getting the numbers.

I knew a craigslist scammer who used to spoof the internet IDs all of the time using virtual machines. If you go by the GUID of the ethernet adapter, that can manually be reassigned very easily in VMware Player (then clone the id in the router/modem).

(It's going to get very funny if the governments try to create a internet ID based on this stuff).




Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.01 04:47:00 - [1345]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/03/2011 04:47:13
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Opertone
to your information - excessive ISK from botting, => inflation, battleships cost 90 mill a piece, then 100 mill, then even 110 mill.

As more people get involved in botting, they go on market and buy equipment. They have higher income in ISKs, so casual players find it more difficult to buy equipment.

IT can be observed in PLEX and Character market too, influx of ISKs devalues the currency. Everything takes more isk, isk value goes down.


Aggravated by the fact that botters devalue minerals (mining bots) at the same time they cause ISK inflation (ratting bots).
I'm not smart enough to draw a conclusion from that but I think it's very bad.

Both most common bot types devalue minerals.
Drone region bots supply most of the high mins, mining bots in w-space and k-space flood minerals into the economy too.

cyclobs
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.01 04:59:00 - [1346]
 

Originally by: Arnakoz
Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 03:40:00
Originally by: Kizz Amarr
CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.




your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.

lets go thru the ropes here..
CCP: make it so that people mining have to enter a code or answer a question every so often.
Bots: will implement already-existing captcha software.

CCP: starts tracking the times and activities of miners
Bots: start randomizing delays and logging in/out at different times

CCP: allows players to issue 2 hour no-mining bans for suspected botting
Bots: add courier mission abilities for those time frames.

CCP: adds spyware on players computers, like blizzard.
Bots: use languages and functions not detected by spyware. or even hack spyware itself to spoof OK responses.

CCP: covertly collects a massive list of bot accounts and perma-bans them all at once.
bots: haha, ccp just lost 60% of its player base and broke the market into pieces. lets get some more accounts set up!


CCP: randomizes buttons and dropdown menus.
bots: add OCR to software.

i could go on forever. but hopefully you get my point by now.

IMHO the only decent option is for CCP to increase the yield and total volume of ore. this would flood the market with minerals to the point that botting simply wouldn't be worth the risk. but neither would mining.... but atleast manufacturing would have a chance. until the idiots that sell for less than cost figure out they're making a profit...



not entirely true.]

You're forgetting the fact it cost around 20 USD plus the 1 month? to make a new account. So really CCP will make more money from permabanning bots. especially if they go through a lot every month.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.01 07:48:00 - [1347]
 

Originally by: Arnakoz

i see your point there. i hadn't considered ratting bots. i'm sure those players that use macros would have never bought any of that stuff if it weren't for the macros. besides, are ratting bots even common? i can't say i've ever seen/suspected one.


I can find 20+ in Great Wildlands any day of the week - and that's in the very quiet hours before DT.

I can find hundreds (if not thousands) in the drone regions, Stain and the south.

Ratting bots are the #1 problem as the isk they create (rat bounties) comes from nowhere and hence is just like govts IRL printing money. It causes inflation and ****s up everyone else who isn't doing it. A typical ratting bot can create 3 billion isk each and every month while only running for a few hours a day. Running 23/7 they'll make 15-20 billion a month very very easily.

Ratting bots are endemic in null. They are all you are likely to find in null - no mining/courier/market/mission bots outside empire really.

I'm going to point out the obvious AGAIN - CCP does NOT wish to ban these "players". They have demonstrated that on thousands of occasions by NOT banning the account for more than 3 days. I've tested this pretty extensively now and multiple petitions from multiple people about ONE bot (who's been doing it by his own admission for 3 years) resulted in 3 one day bans for him. That was petitions over the course of 2 months from 9 people.

THREE ONE DAY BANS for over 300 BILLION ISK generated from botting (his estimate). Sounds to me like he's the one with brains and the honest players are morons, with CCP laughing their arses off at the petitioners.

CCP condone the use of bots, so petitioning is a total waste of time. If CCP ever decide to enforce their EULA (yeah yeah stop laughing at the back there Razz) then it may be worthwhile petitioning. Not until then though.

CCP says "Carry On Botting"......

Montgomery Crabapple
Posted - 2011.03.01 08:54:00 - [1348]
 

I would have thought botting loses money for CCP. I'm sure someone has pointed it out in the previous 40 pages. The income can be used to but Plex... so these people are probably not paying for their game time anyway.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.03.01 12:10:00 - [1349]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 01/03/2011 12:16:50
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Second, governments don't care about a game that can't break a billion in revenue across the globe so, no, there is no government that would care about RMT in a game.

Lets focus on the RMT and botting as it effects the players and what the players will do in response if it is not fixed.


Well no, there are plenty of businesses in the world that make way less than a billion a year that governments are very interested in taxing. Granted, Interpol might not be interested but tax authorities on the other hand might be?

I don't know but I've always guessed that MMO's fight RMT or at least say they fight RMT because they don't want their in game currency being given a tangible real world value least they be taxed for it. It's the reason time codes are traded for real currency while isk has no official and direct real currency value, officially. Remember, governments tax transactions. And there are a significant number of transactions in Eve. While a single isk has little value the amount of isk in trade is very large. Aggregated over a year is probably a substantial real world amount in potential taxes. But it's all a rather complex topic that I choose not to concern myself with so much.

As a solution, since CCP is definitely not fighting botting beyond the token effort I suggest the following: Use bots to petition the bots. The petition bots aggregate the data. When a certain threshold is reached it files a petition. Fight that fire with fire, I say.

Glasgow Dunlop
Posted - 2011.03.01 12:32:00 - [1350]
 

I, for one, welcome our new bot overlords.

If CCP dont do anything about the bots, and by the looks of it, they aren't/won't/can be botherd, then just maybe, the rest of the fair-playing players, should stick 2 fingers to CCP and join in our botting 'friends' as it seems the attitude of the company is 'not to care' about us that are filling their bank account up.

Whats going to be the point of DUST, if EVE id just full of botter that dont use PI as much as regular players would?





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