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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:59:00 - [1291]
 

Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 27/02/2011 11:00:25
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 27/02/2011 10:59:58
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Might as well hire thugs to go to your enemies houses and beat them up at their computers too.



It is a good idea! This EVE style gameplay will be encouraged. Let's do it from agitating the GMs under petition section first.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:52:00 - [1292]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 27/02/2011 14:20:27
Originally by: Othran

This is such complete unmitigated bull**** that its not funny.

You are clueless.

CCP will accept NO DATA from your site. It won't happen. Ever.

There is no point in petitioning botters unless you know FOR SURE that they are involved in RMT.

No point because CCP REQUIRES them to keep botting otherwise the economy (heh there's a laugh) will collapse.

The game is built upon a foundation of cheating. A foundation that CCP has been well aware of since bots first appeared.

CCP condones cheating. While they do there is no point in petitioning anyone not RMTing.


Yes, you've clearly indicated a number of times in this thread that you think the whole thing is pointless, that everyone here, but you, apparently, is clueless, that CCP will accept no data, etc. etc. We get it - you disagree with anything anybody in this game tries to do to beat botters - unless it's CCP itself. Some of us choose to fight the good fight - some of us choose to sit around with our thumbs up our bungholes and nay-say and trash the good work of others for our own self-righteous ego's. You, my friend, fall into the latter category.

I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions. Amazingly, reportbots.com generates them. Who'd have thunk it? A third-party site designed to work in conjunction with CCP towards putting a dent in this problem. Wow. F'ing amazing!

As for how clueless I am... are you working with CCP to resolve this issue? Have you been talking to the people there, getting to know them, what they need, how you can help them? Have you read all the relevant data and understand the scope of the problem? Have you sketched out your plans for how you can even try to help solve the problem? No? I have. So, who is clueless? You are. You have no clue what you're even talking about except to spout off some crap about vague rules in the EULA which we all already agree isn't enforced and to continue to bash those of us who *are* working with CCP and who *do* understand the problem from an entirely different perspective - a perspective you elect not to be open minded enough to accept. So you, my friend, are the clueless one.

Besides, I've already said I don't really care if it's fail. It makes me sleep better at night. :P

Clearly your only point in being in this thread is to troll and to try and convince others that there is no point to fighting the bot problem. Not once have you said anything positive about anything posted by anybody in this thread. At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that you're a botter. Only a botter would fight so diligently to make others feel that trying to solve a problem *the players have never tried to solve on their own before* is pointless, despite all the evidence to the contrary. So, kudos for trying to hide behind the thin veil of intelligence, botter. But your days, like all the other botters in New Eden's, are numbered - so fight as hard as you can to convince the players that reporting bots is pointless. Be my guest. You'll still lose that fight. You're on the wrong side of the moral compass, friend.

One last thought... what makes hulkageddon so successful at dealing so much damage to so many people in such a short amount of time? I'll give you a clue - massive player effort. What I'm proposing is no different.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:01:00 - [1293]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions. Amazingly, reportbots.com generates them. Who'd have thunk it? A third-party site designed to work in conjunction with CCP towards putting a dent in this problem. Wow. F'ing amazing!

why so angry?

From what I have heard so far both of you are right.

CCP won't ban anyone based on data collected by a third party.

But they will look into petitions (and then ban or not based on their own internal data) and collecting data might help a 3rd party to decide whether to bother with writing a petition or not.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:18:00 - [1294]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
...about vague rules in the EULA which we all already agree isn't enforced ...


Have they ever stated why these rules aren't enforced? Or indicated that the rules in question will be removed? Or said any words on any topic whatsoever?

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:20:00 - [1295]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions.


Ironic that they accept petitions generated by, what is basically, a bot, about bots. What would complete this irony is if the first tier of GM's are themselves bots. EVE won't be killed by bots, it will be a zombie MMO, one that is played by and GM'd by bots. All that is needed now is a bot that does pvp and we can all stop playing.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:26:00 - [1296]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 27/02/2011 14:52:09
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions.


Ironic that they accept petitions generated by, what is basically, a bot, about bots. What would complete this irony is if the first tier of GM's are themselves bots. EVE won't be killed by bots, it will be a zombie MMO, one that is played by and GM'd by bots. All that is needed now is a bot that does pvp and we can all stop playing.


Err... only if you define 'bot' with a very, very broad brush. reportbots.com isn't a bot - it's a tool human players can use to easily generate bot petitions (among other things) after having sought-out and found bots in-game. It's the closest thing to 'right-click -> report suspected bot' as I can get without working for CCP :)

Edit: reportbots.com *does not* generate and send petitions to CCP. It simply generates a copy & paste text the human player can then use to file a petition with CCP.

Tho I do agree that if the human players don't do something to try and solve the problem that eventually this will be a zombie MMO that is played and GM'd by bots. Hence why I'm here.

yorkie2
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:33:00 - [1297]
 

Feel strongly bout this subject ? Then Boycott the fanfest

CCP have shown not evidence in combating bots or RMT so don't show any interest in the fanfest this year until they do something.

The fanfest is like CCP's AGM for its players the players are the investors and ccp is ignoring us.




Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:35:00 - [1298]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 27/02/2011 14:35:59
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions. Amazingly, reportbots.com generates them. Who'd have thunk it? A third-party site designed to work in conjunction with CCP towards putting a dent in this problem. Wow. F'ing amazing!

why so angry?

From what I have heard so far both of you are right.

CCP won't ban anyone based on data collected by a third party.

But they will look into petitions (and then ban or not based on their own internal data) and collecting data might help a 3rd party to decide whether to bother with writing a petition or not.


I'm not angry... I'm simply fighting as strenuously as I can for my position. :)

I would much prefer this thread to end up being more about what we can do to solve the problem than about how pointless trying to find solutions are. That's all.

And yes, you have put it more eloquently than I was able to in my posts so far. I'm not collecting data for CCP - I'm collecting data for players. I'm generating petitions for CCP. Hand-in-hand they work together to help the players help themselves solve the bot problem (or at least put a dent in it).

I suppose having realized how prevalent botters are in the game, having realized how easy they are to spot, having realized how easy many of them are to gank and having made a handful of botters rage-quit this game I got a little excited and thought everyone else would want to be on board for something totally epic. Something never tried. Something that makes a definite statement to the botters that they are not welcome here by the players.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:58:00 - [1299]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 27/02/2011 14:52:09
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions.


Ironic that they accept petitions generated by, what is basically, a bot, about bots. What would complete this irony is if the first tier of GM's are themselves bots. EVE won't be killed by bots, it will be a zombie MMO, one that is played by and GM'd by bots. All that is needed now is a bot that does pvp and we can all stop playing.


Err... only if you define 'bot' with a very, very broad brush. reportbots.com isn't a bot - it's a tool human players can use to easily generate bot petitions (among other things) after having sought-out and found bots in-game. It's the closest thing to 'right-click -> report suspected bot' as I can get without working for CCP :)

Edit: reportbots.com *does not* generate and send petitions to CCP. It simply generates a copy & paste text the human player can then use to file a petition with CCP.

Tho I do agree that if the human players don't do something to try and solve the problem that eventually this will be a zombie MMO that is played and GM'd by bots. Hence why I'm here.



Ah, I see, well at least your doing something. That's a lot more than can be said for some folks.

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.02.27 15:16:00 - [1300]
 

I will gladly allow myself to be hired by CCP, for the miserable pay they give, to go forth into New Eden and ban every botter personally.

You have my contact details CCP.

love,

Your friendly neighbourhood Terrorist.


Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2011.02.27 16:20:00 - [1301]
 

Originally by: yorkie2
Feel strongly bout this subject ? Then Boycott the fanfest



... or go dressed up as a robot...

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:04:00 - [1302]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 27/02/2011 19:35:51
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: yorkie2
Feel strongly bout this subject ? Then Boycott the fanfest



... or go dressed up as a robot...


... and run away & hide every time you spot an other player or CCP employee?

sounds awesome Rolling Eyes

Kizz Amarr
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.27 19:32:00 - [1303]
 

CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.


Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.27 22:03:00 - [1304]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 27/02/2011 22:03:57
Im boycotting fanfest; I wasnt going anyways lol but Ill pretend that Im boycotting it

Originally by: Helicity Boson
I will gladly allow myself to be hired by CCP, for the miserable pay they give, to go forth into New Eden and ban every botter personally.

You have my contact details CCP.

love,

Your friendly neighbourhood Terrorist.




LOL LOL
well then again, with the caliber of the ppl they already have you might have a shot

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.02.28 03:39:00 - [1305]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 03:40:00
Originally by: Kizz Amarr
CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.




your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.

lets go thru the ropes here..
CCP: make it so that people mining have to enter a code or answer a question every so often.
Bots: will implement already-existing captcha software.

CCP: starts tracking the times and activities of miners
Bots: start randomizing delays and logging in/out at different times

CCP: allows players to issue 2 hour no-mining bans for suspected botting
Bots: add courier mission abilities for those time frames.

CCP: adds spyware on players computers, like blizzard.
Bots: use languages and functions not detected by spyware. or even hack spyware itself to spoof OK responses.

CCP: covertly collects a massive list of bot accounts and perma-bans them all at once.
bots: haha, ccp just lost 60% of its player base and broke the market into pieces. lets get some more accounts set up!

CCP: randomizes buttons and dropdown menus.
bots: add OCR to software.

i could go on forever. but hopefully you get my point by now.

IMHO the only decent option is for CCP to increase the yield and total volume of ore. this would flood the market with minerals to the point that botting simply wouldn't be worth the risk. but neither would mining.... but atleast manufacturing would have a chance. until the idiots that sell for less than cost figure out they're making a profit...

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.28 04:52:00 - [1306]
 

I would like to see a more proactive CCP response to bots, finding and banning bots proactively so that the industry can never get up and running.

And for those who say IP banning or account banning doesnt work. I have a proposal for you, you are right the two before mentioned methods of banning have simple work arounds however there is one kind of ID that cannot be changed, the CPU id number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPUID

If you banned by CPUID then the botters would have to change out CPU's every time they are banned or hack the client to auto OK the check. But if i remember correctly, intel implemented these functionalities in a sort of non spoof-able manor to prevent CPU re-branding.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.28 05:04:00 - [1307]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 28/02/2011 05:05:03
Originally by: Arnakoz

your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.



You're both wrong and right.

Nothing CCP will do will stop botting, as they have fully embraced botting. Case in point: PI, that could be completely automated with an autohotkey script.

That eliminating botting is impossible, however, is complete bull****. Bots can't even properly compete against a human in Go, let alone in computer games that require any high level strategy. Using game design to make botting completely pointless is not just possible, it's almost a direct result of good game design.

It is only when the design is so mechanical and terrible, like with PI, mining, ratting and so on, that bots have any niche to exist. The current situation of mandated botting is a direct result of the incompetence and lack of vision of the CCP "game designers".

Originally by: Lithalnas

If you banned by CPUID then the botters would have to change out CPU's every time they are banned or hack the client to auto OK the check. But if i remember correctly, intel implemented these functionalities in a sort of non spoof-able manor to prevent CPU re-branding.

Ohi. I'm a virtual machine. Try to identify me.

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.02.28 07:00:00 - [1308]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 28/02/2011 05:05:03
Originally by: Arnakoz

your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.



You're both wrong and right.

Nothing CCP will do will stop botting, as they have fully embraced botting. Case in point: PI, that could be completely automated with an autohotkey script.

That eliminating botting is impossible, however, is complete bull****. Bots can't even properly compete against a human in Go, let alone in computer games that require any high level strategy. Using game design to make botting completely pointless is not just possible, it's almost a direct result of good game design.

It is only when the design is so mechanical and terrible, like with PI, mining, ratting and so on, that bots have any niche to exist. The current situation of mandated botting is a direct result of the incompetence and lack of vision of the CCP "game designers".

Originally by: Lithalnas

If you banned by CPUID then the botters would have to change out CPU's every time they are banned or hack the client to auto OK the check. But if i remember correctly, intel implemented these functionalities in a sort of non spoof-able manor to prevent CPU re-branding.

Ohi. I'm a virtual machine. Try to identify me.


I wouldn't be surprised if there were already PI bots, but tbh the most profitable bots out there are the market ones, just put a buy/sell order in jita and check out how quickly they undercut you for 0.01 isk, it's madness...

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.28 08:30:00 - [1309]
 

not sure why people think getting rid of bots will screw up the market. it could actually cause prices to fall as demand eventually drops.

pvp is the market driver in eve. without isk from bots, the botters won't be able to afford anything.

t2 isn't affected by bots other than what botters spend money on. t2 prices might actually go down.

only t1 is affected by botters but I'd put money on carebear mission runners still being the core supply of t1 modules.

you might find a temporary increase as former botters buy up what they can but first supply will outstrip demand due to an excess of botters minerals but eventually supply and demand will even out as it has in the past.

this is because the former botters have to replace pvp ships with honest isk and minerals are mined honestly.

also take into account some botters will have billions stashed away which will cause devaluation but even that will eventually be spent and blown up or spent on plex.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.28 10:07:00 - [1310]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler

t2 isn't affected by bots other than what botters spend money on. t2 prices might actually go down.



Suggestion: Only people who understand how the eve economy works are allowed to partake in this discussion.

By the way, PI and ice macros factor heavily into the end price of t2 goods.

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.02.28 10:52:00 - [1311]
 

Originally by: Arnakoz
Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 03:40:00
Originally by: Kizz Amarr
CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.




your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.

lets go thru the ropes here..
CCP: make it so that people mining have to enter a code or answer a question every so often.
Bots: will implement already-existing captcha software.

CCP: starts tracking the times and activities of miners
Bots: start randomizing delays and logging in/out at different times

CCP: allows players to issue 2 hour no-mining bans for suspected botting
Bots: add courier mission abilities for those time frames.

CCP: adds spyware on players computers, like blizzard.
Bots: use languages and functions not detected by spyware. or even hack spyware itself to spoof OK responses.

CCP: covertly collects a massive list of bot accounts and perma-bans them all at once.
bots: haha, ccp just lost 60% of its player base and broke the market into pieces. lets get some more accounts set up!

CCP: randomizes buttons and dropdown menus.
bots: add OCR to software.

i could go on forever. but hopefully you get my point by now.

IMHO the only decent option is for CCP to increase the yield and total volume of ore. this would flood the market with minerals to the point that botting simply wouldn't be worth the risk. but neither would mining.... but atleast manufacturing would have a chance. until the idiots that sell for less than cost figure out they're making a profit...


What ever you do. A bot need to be online and active in pve many hours everyday. Mechine-like-real-players? OK it is what we gonna ban also.

Bhattran
Posted - 2011.02.28 12:45:00 - [1312]
 

Originally by: Arnakoz
Edited by: Arnakoz on 28/02/2011 03:40:00
Originally by: Kizz Amarr
CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.




your logic would only work if there were actually a way to stop bots.

simple matter of the fact is that nothing they do will stop it.

lets go thru the ropes here..
CCP: make it so that people mining have to enter a code or answer a question every so often.
Bots: will implement already-existing captcha software.

CCP: starts tracking the times and activities of miners
Bots: start randomizing delays and logging in/out at different times

CCP: allows players to issue 2 hour no-mining bans for suspected botting
Bots: add courier mission abilities for those time frames.

CCP: adds spyware on players computers, like blizzard.
Bots: use languages and functions not detected by spyware. or even hack spyware itself to spoof OK responses.

CCP: covertly collects a massive list of bot accounts and perma-bans them all at once.
bots: haha, ccp just lost 60% of its player base and broke the market into pieces. lets get some more accounts set up!

CCP: randomizes buttons and dropdown menus.
bots: add OCR to software.

i could go on forever. but hopefully you get my point by now.



They don't have to stop all bots, that is unrealistic, if they can force botters to make their bots 'work' at more human rates not 23/7, not 10+ hrs a day THAT is a 'victory' with more work CCP can detect those that run on set schedules and force some randomization which further can reduce their effectiveness. Through detecting of isk transfers they can shut them down and botters need more bots to keepup or botting declines.

More bots working 'less' hours each still leaves them vulenrable to detection and banning, this lowers the ROI on making new accounts and starting over botting.

Even if CCP can't break botting like that they can force botters to do more than make a program, tweak the script then bot for 6-12 months before they have to make an adjustment to it. The more downtime botters have to deal with both in keeping their programs updated and in actual playtime the more CCP 'wins' the bot war. If they slack off then botters adapt and continue. RMT bots have more of a stake in a long term ROI with less hours of running bots and more accounts the casual player or non RMT botter who doesn't have the same stake where they are just trying to get isk for 'free' they are much more deterred by a delay in ROI over a RMT botter.

The defeatist attitude gets us nothing, you don't 'win' by giving up, unless all you are interested in is not fighting.

Burnharder
Posted - 2011.02.28 12:55:00 - [1313]
 

Originally by: Lithalnas


If you banned by CPUID then the botters would have to change out CPU's every time they are banned or hack the client to auto OK the check. But if i remember correctly, intel implemented these functionalities in a sort of non spoof-able manor to prevent CPU re-branding.


Don't quote me, but I would hazard a guess that CPU ID can be spoofed.

Burnharder
Posted - 2011.02.28 12:59:00 - [1314]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Integral, and essential.

I'd like to see them give some people GM powers, not paid or anything, and have them go find bots, and amass solid proof. Have IA monitor them, of course. Hell, I'd volunteer, it's not like I do anything in Eve outside chatting nowadays anyway.


w00t! In that case, how about you volunteer to go find bots and report them using reportbots.com/report/ and then file a petition with the people who *do* have the GM powers? Not really that much different from what you propose - ultimately the GM (not the IA) have control over who get's the ban hammer anyway, so if you don't do much more than chat now - put that chatbox to work for you and start talking to suspected bots, figure out their other behaviors (reportbots.com/university/), and file your reports and petitions!


Thanks for that.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.28 13:10:00 - [1315]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 28/02/2011 13:21:26
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 28/02/2011 13:15:20
Originally by: Kizz Amarr
CCP are responsible for the mechanics of the game. It is their baby so to speak.

CCP understand the mechanics of the game can be used by third party software to play the game in the absense of a 'hands-on' player and/or in coordination with a hands-on player.

Therefore, CCP are permitting the users to employ third party software to play the game.

The game belongs to CCP, they own it and have the right to change it at will.

AS they clearly acknowledge third party software is permitted to run on their platform, they are supporting it. If they support it, so can the players.

The difference between a player and CCP, CCP Own the game, Players pay to play a game in accordance with CCP's Rules.




Precisely. Eve is CCP's product and therefore it is up to CCP to enforce it's EULA. However, there is one piece of EULA terminolodgy that some people tend to forget is there, which states something to the effect of: Failure to enforce any policies set forth in this EULA does not negate any of the policies set forth in this EULA. In short, companies put this in there to cover their legal arses. CCP can have as many rules as they like, but they don't have to enforce them and it's long and clearly been established that they don't enforce them as stringently as we would like in regards to bot activities.

That is their decision as a company and, as others have stated, we have few options... The first is to not be a paying customer. To give up Eve and go play, I dunno... something else spacey perhaps. The second is to keep pressure on CCP to make the changes that will break the bots for as long as they can possibly break them and permaban the ones we/they find. The third is to take matters into our own hands, so to speak, and have botageddon. Trust me when I tell you that you take out a fleet of hulks - it hurts the botters. Keep hammering them every time you see them, and most will come to the conclusion that they're not welcome and can't bot when they're constantly under attack (or in cases of rat bots, constantly trying to avoid neutral players).

So, to rehash:

1. CCP has a EULA it does not have to enforce (as does every other company in the world)
2. CCP has a long, rich history of not enforcing their EULA to the degree we think it should be enforced
3. CCP has always avoided this subject like black death. Find me one response in 6 years from CCP about this, and I'll be impressed.
4. Players feel not enforcing the EULA gives some players (botters) an *unfair* advantage over other players (humans)
5. Players can choose to leave Eve
6. Players can choose to continue to pressure CCP to enforce their EULA - which they haven't done in 6 years.
7. Players can start locating, reporting (petition) and killing as many bots as they can find on a regular basis

Some have chosen to leave, most have chosen to be miffed about CCPs failure to enforce their EULA to the degree we feel it should be enforced and continue to put pressure on CCP in forums such as this one, and few of us have the audacity, the balls and the desire to take down as many botters as we possibly can.

Won't you join us? If you care so much about the bot problem and you know CCP isn't going to change how they approach it - isn't it time we just took care of the problem ourselves? Let's do something epic. Let's do something future 'generations' of players will hear whispers about for years. Let's have a bot war of epic proportions! EVE - The Bot Wars. Let's do this! ;P

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.02.28 13:30:00 - [1316]
 

Edited by: Hoya en Marland on 28/02/2011 13:36:14
@Consortium Agent
You are reminding me a lot to Don Quixote. Because I am pretty sure it's not only that CCP doesn't need our help - they don't want it, they love botters.

Anyway, I wish you luck in your little mission.
o7

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.28 14:51:00 - [1317]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: knobber Jobbler

t2 isn't affected by bots other than what botters spend money on. t2 prices might actually go down.



Suggestion: Only people who understand how the eve economy works are allowed to partake in this discussion.

By the way, PI and ice macros factor heavily into the end price of t2 goods.


well there you probably want to ignore most post here then as basic economics has escaped most of the pages of this thread.

there is enough player driven of both to make sure bots don't factor in. in the ice fields near me I've not once seen a single bot in there. they are a different scale to the ratting bots seen down south which have a severe effect on the eve economy.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:45:00 - [1318]
 

Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Consortium Agent
I have it on good authority that CCP *will* accept petitions for bots. How those petitions are generated is not CCP's problem, but they will accept petitions.


Ironic that they accept petitions generated by, what is basically, a bot, about bots. What would complete this irony is if the first tier of GM's are themselves bots.


I wouldnt be surprised... you ever try to talk to a GM? it seems like talking to smartbot lol

Richard Aiel
Caldari
Umbra Exitium
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:50:00 - [1319]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent

4. Players feel not enforcing the EULA gives some players (botters) an *unfair* advantage over other players (humans)




YEAH this is the ONLY time theyve ever done this.....

T20 anyone?
they basically dont punish the dev OR the alliance OR the group of ppl that knew he was a dev and knew they were taking illegal items.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.28 18:20:00 - [1320]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: knobber Jobbler

t2 isn't affected by bots other than what botters spend money on. t2 prices might actually go down.



Suggestion: Only people who understand how the eve economy works are allowed to partake in this discussion.

By the way, PI and ice macros factor heavily into the end price of t2 goods.


Suggestion: A very large part of t2 price is determined by moon minerals (you know technetium, what your alliance is sitting on and selling for enormous profits). In one of their not-more-than-usual idiotic moments CCP decided it was fun to have a fixed influx of high end moon minerals. When botters are killed (irl) then they wont buy t2 anymore, same supply, less demand = lower prices.


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