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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.25 01:04:00 - [1231]
 

Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Consortium Agent

In either case, no matter how a bot evolves it will always, always, always have repetitive patterns of behaviors. Always.


Very true _but_ the behaviour of humans will be repetitive as well because the game is forcing them to. There is no way around having GMs go around and try to spot bots. And that means there is a dedicated team of knowledgeable individuals needed. (Sadly my confidence in the GM team does not allow me to hope for much in that reguard. But then, it's not my problem to solve that.)



True, which is why it takes time to learn how to spot the behaviors that, generally speaking, only bots do with regular repetition. It's understood that mining bots attempt to mimic the behaviors of human player miners - but they don't. If you spend a little time in a belt where there are bots and human players you will begin to see the patterns of behaviors for each. It's the combination of behaviors with regular patterns (or regular reactions to outside stimuli) that smell of bot. Once you're used to looking for them - they tend to really stand out. Conversely, hauler bots and combat bots too have these stand-out patterns that make them easy to spot once you know what to look for.

As was brought up earlier in the discussion, often you can put the words 'bot', 'macro', etc. in local chat and literally watch people log off where they sit!

Rent Buzzline
Posted - 2011.02.25 01:06:00 - [1232]
 

Edited by: Rent Buzzline on 25/02/2011 01:10:20
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 24/02/2011 18:32:48
Originally by: Rent Buzzline
It's never too late to get straight.

I don't think the majority of posters in this thread agrees with your opinion.

Consensus seems to be that botters should get permabanned at first offense (instead of giving them temp bans of increasing duration) or that their skills and assets should be reset.


To clarify, the "getting straight" part aimed at corp or alliance members and CEOs who turned a blind side to suspicious behavior of their fellow man.

I fully support (and heartily endorse) the perma-ban for all botters.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.25 02:12:00 - [1233]
 

you now I was going through alot of my eve stuff recently after starting to activly play agin I found a petiotn from 2004 against bits and the rpelyw as we'd do something and I now remember they never did there complancy goes back many years. I also started a thread on forums about it many years ago and now seemingly that thread is deleted as if they tying to blank out the past and be accoutable for bots. The reason I know thisis eve search shows it to be my biggest thread with most replies. all other threads I checked are there but not this one..

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:02:00 - [1234]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 25/02/2011 04:11:53
Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 25/02/2011 04:10:00
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 24/02/2011 16:17:58
I've pretty much lost all hope that CCP is going to put any significant effort into resolving the issue of bots. They've ignored this thread for more than 2 months and let it grow to 41 pages, with a spin doc from a GM as the only response. They could have chosen to use the CSM summit as an outlet to give us some reason to believe that they do intend to do something, keeping actual intentions under NDA, but they choose to redact all of whatever conversation of botting took place. CCP Oveur or CCP Zulu could have tossed us a bone in this thread to tell us they see the situation as a problem, and that they will address it. Instead, they've chosen to contain the problem to this thread; the problem being us.

I'm pretty sure that Eve has jumped the shark as a competitive sandbox game. For many, it's already devolved into arcade mode, where the largest assets are disposable and having a character with any skillset is only an auction away; all it takes to have anything is RL cash or a bot and a bit of secure space.

Remembering the effort that ASCN and BoB put into building the 1st titans, and the impact those 1st shipyards had on the game, it's sad to see how trivial fielding the games greatest achievements has become. Sadder stillů if they ever did get rid of bots, it would cement the current power blocks in place, since new alliances would never be able to field enough firepower to challenge the assets of the current alliances.

At this point, I guess I'll keep my afk camper doing her job of keeping one system safe from the scourge, invest the larger part of my reserves into commodities that'll give a nice return if bots are ever removed, and play out the plex I have left. (no stuffs for you, don't ask).



This is one of the reason ill never actively go into 0.0

Originally by: Ephemeron
First try get an official statement from CCP whether they value their profit margin more or less than they value the hardcore gaming ideals.

CCP is either with us, or they are with the enemy. They need make clear what side they are on. Money or values.

Dunno if 6.2 mil is a lot for a company like CCP...
Might be theyre needing padding to their profits
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=is&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visir.is%2Farticle%2F2010472113225&act=url

Quote:
Icelandic computer game manufacturer, CCP seems to grind gold, but the company's annual accounts show very good position. The capital situation is good compared to the debt and the company added about 100 employees in 2009 and the number of subscribers, as stated in the DV. The company returned a profit of nearly 6.2 million dollars, equivalent to 750 million last year. Bj÷rgˇlfur Thor Bj÷rgˇlfsson investor is the largest shareholder in the CCP, with just over 30 per cent stake.
Eiginfjßrsta­an er gˇ­ Ý samanbur­i vi­ skuldir og fyrirtŠki­ bŠtti vi­ um 100 starfsm÷nnum ß ßrinu 2009 og ßskrifendum fj÷lga­i, a­ ■vÝ er fram kemur Ý DV.FyrirtŠki­ skila­i hagna­i upp ß nŠrri 6,2 milljˇnir dollara, jafnvir­i 750 milljˇnir krˇna, Ý fyrra.Bj÷rgˇlfur Thor Bj÷rgˇlfsson fjßrfestir er stŠrsti hluthafinn Ý CCP me­ r˙mlega 30 prˇsenta eignarhlut.

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:22:00 - [1235]
 

The only problem I see here is if a lot of peeps start doing RMT, it's going to be bad. That aside, the best way to counter this is to remove plex entirely. This is the problem and is probably why CCP hasn't been able to do much about it. I bet CCP will lose more than half of their subscribers just by taking such actions as the botters are prolly 5% of the current population at most. The hit will come from the huge amount of players that depend on plex for game time. I'll wait and see what happens.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:46:00 - [1236]
 

Originally by: freshspree
The only problem I see here is if a lot of peeps start doing RMT, it's going to be bad. That aside, the best way to counter this is to remove plex entirely. This is the problem and is probably why CCP hasn't been able to do much about it. I bet CCP will lose more than half of their subscribers just by taking such actions as the botters are prolly 5% of the current population at most. The hit will come from the huge amount of players that depend on plex for game time. I'll wait and see what happens.


I dunno, I think itd take more than about 15000 bots to make it so that corps can field dozens of Titans and hundreds of supercaps
(given 5% of 350,000 as I remember 350k being the number of accounts last I remember looking)

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.25 05:38:00 - [1237]
 

Originally by: Pr0m Queen
rofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?
riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.

Ammount of bots in EVE is annoying, true, but blaming just one party for bot usage is plain idiocy. Whole NC territory is one big blue napfest ideal for botters - why not look there? why not ask some particular individuals, how come they know so much about botting in the fisrt place? nah, that needs too much brain power from your common Joe. In the end it's all just dirty politics and dirty media war tricks
EN24 series of articles about RMT is just boiling with hate against russians, while you can't beat them on battlefield or outsmart them or beat their famous tenacity, you decide to make them evil for the rest of EVE community?

As for people making a lot of isks daily - I can, if I want or need to, farm few billions in a week just by runnig anomalies using my 4 accounts, of course I do it completely manually by myself, using one marauder, carrier and two battleships to simultaneously do two sanctums and two havens. and farming with stuff like motherships will give you even more. in fact, when i actively farm i can make around 300-500kk isk a day, why would anyone need to use bots when you can have this income?

to deal with RMT problem, CCP should start acting against ISK buyers more than against botters, because it's the demand that creates the offer in this case. It's not really cause of bots, I guess bots were created to speed up ISK generation for the GROWING DEMAND of the RMT market. Make no mistake, it's not botters who's creating this problem, it's lazy players who find it easier to buy isk than to farm for it. And if not for PLEX being sold officially, this market would be even bigger, because then all the people who try to fund their EVE adventures by selling PLEXes would just turn to illegal isk sellers. What CCP can also do is to lower PLEX prices a bit, mybe make them 15 days instead of 30 to add more options for people with limited funds that would otherwise (instead of buying PLEX) spend their limited funds on illegal isk. It's just basic economy rules - supply and demand, and I think this is why CCP can't really take any action in current situation. I mean they can do something that would damage EVE greatly or even completely change it, but that would be too much. And there's no way some small simple half-measures can deal with this RMT problem.
So guys, just let CCP do their job and just be happy about that you play in one of most awesome and original MMOs ever created.


I'd like to highlight this post, because the style of argumentation is amazing.

Whenever rampant botting is brought up, and ccp is asked to take action against bots, there is inevitably someone whose line of argument is basically this:

"But the NC does it too."

Not only is this missing the point, it's also very revealing. Someone is getting mighty defensive whenever botting is brought up. I wonder why..
It's not like botting alliances like Shadow of xXDEATHXx were always targeted specifically. We're talking _all_ bots here. Their people need to be permabanned, the people who give them a place to operate need to be vivisected. Who cares on which part of the map they are? They need to diaf.

Especially revealing, by the way, is the RMT smokebomb. RMT is completely detached from botting. These are two separate issues.

chrisss0r
The Lowbirds
Posted - 2011.02.25 05:55:00 - [1238]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Pr0m Queen
rofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?
riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.

Ammount of bots in EVE is annoying, true, but blaming just one party for bot usage is plain idiocy. Whole NC territory is one big blue napfest ideal for botters - why not look there? why not ask some particular individuals, how come they know so much about botting in the fisrt place? nah, that needs too much brain power from your common Joe. In the end it's all just dirty politics and dirty media war tricks
EN24 series of articles about RMT is just boiling with hate against russians, while you can't beat them on battlefield or outsmart them or beat their famous tenacity, you decide to make them evil for the rest of EVE community?

As for people making a lot of isks daily - I can, if I want or need to, farm few billions in a week just by runnig anomalies using my 4 accounts, of course I do it completely manually by myself, using one marauder, carrier and two battleships to simultaneously do two sanctums and two havens. and farming with stuff like motherships will give you even more. in fact, when i actively farm i can make around 300-500kk isk a day, why would anyone need to use bots when you can have this income?

to deal with RMT problem, CCP should start acting against ISK buyers more than against botters, because it's the demand that creates the offer in this case. It's not really cause of bots, I guess bots were created to speed up ISK generation for the GROWING DEMAND of the RMT market. Make no mistake, it's not botters who's creating this problem, it's lazy players who find it easier to buy isk than to farm for it. And if not for PLEX being sold officially, this market would be even bigger, because then all the people who try to fund their EVE adventures by selling PLEXes would just turn to illegal isk sellers. What CCP can also do is to lower PLEX prices a bit, mybe make them 15 days instead of 30 to add more options for people with limited funds that would otherwise (instead of buying PLEX) spend their limited funds on illegal isk. It's just basic economy rules - supply and demand, and I think this is why CCP can't really take any action in current situation. I mean they can do something that would damage EVE greatly or even completely change it, but that would be too much. And there's no way some small simple half-measures can deal with this RMT problem.
So guys, just let CCP do their job and just be happy about that you play in one of most awesome and original MMOs ever created.


I'd like to highlight this post, because the style of argumentation is amazing.

Whenever rampant botting is brought up, and ccp is asked to take action against bots, there is inevitably someone whose line of argument is basically this:

"But the NC does it too."

Not only is this missing the point, it's also very revealing. Someone is getting mighty defensive whenever botting is brought up. I wonder why..
It's not like botting alliances like Shadow of xXDEATHXx were always targeted specifically. We're talking _all_ bots here. Their people need to be permabanned, the people who give them a place to operate need to be vivisected. Who cares on which part of the map they are? They need to diaf.

Especially revealing, by the way, is the RMT smokebomb. RMT is completely detached from botting. These are two separate issues.


hehe did you read my posts on kugu? :D

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.25 05:57:00 - [1239]
 

I rarely read kugs tbh.

chrisss0r
The Lowbirds
Posted - 2011.02.25 06:04:00 - [1240]
 

Well it's funny i'm not the only one to notice that line of defense. I put a post on kugu that's very similar.

People complain about botting ruining the game and out of nowhere a horde of angry russians show up and complain about how botting is a small problem and even if it were a big propblem "the nc does it as well!!!!" somehow hoping that would be an argument to leave botting alone.

pretty revealing.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.25 07:08:00 - [1241]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Weĺre currently putting together more information on our efforts to fight RMT and we will make that available to everyone next week. We appreciate that this is something you are all very passionate about and we look forward to answering your questions.


Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for the nothing that you've told us or achieved in this area in the last 3 months.

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.02.25 07:35:00 - [1242]
 

When you guys whining here, smart people got a script and rent a system for his new supercap.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.25 07:40:00 - [1243]
 

Originally by: Kogh Ayon
When you guys whining here, smart people got a script and rent a system for his new supercap.


botter detected lol

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.25 08:31:00 - [1244]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
I don't think it quite compares. Knowing something you cannot know is different to amplifying Cap transfer slightly or capitals being too large and massive to use jumpgates.
There might also be some magic involved, but it's T1 magic at best.
The local thing is T3 magic.

#Edit: It will be really difficult to explain how local works in game terms. Concord prohibits meddling with your ships transponder or IFF system that sends a solar system wide beacon so everyone knows you're there? Quite weak but the best I can think of.


IIRC, you are using Concord's gates or alignment system (in case of a cyno). You either check in with CONCORD or stay stuck in inter-system Purgatory until you do.

Of course, the real reason is that CCP accepts the use of local as an instanteous intelligence. It also realized there was a demand for no local in some space and gave players that.

(ironically, that space is inhabited by primarily PvErs, while "real PvPers" continue to sit in K-space and whine about local)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.25 08:46:00 - [1245]
 

Quote:

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for the nothing that you've told us or achieved in this area in the last 3 months



Imagine the uproar if the flaunted 60k concurrent players revealed to be 20k real players (the rest bots). Would not give an healthy picture of the game, wouldn't it? It could even show off that EvE is not growing as much as it's believed.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.25 12:39:00 - [1246]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for the nothing that you've told us or achieved in this area in the last 3 months



Imagine the uproar if the flaunted 60k concurrent players revealed to be 20k real players (the rest bots). Would not give an healthy picture of the game, wouldn't it? It could even show off that EvE is not growing as much as it's believed.


Indeed. And the main reason, I think, that afking for a certain amount of time doesn't log you out. The above 20k could turn out to be about 3k, heh.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.25 12:50:00 - [1247]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for the nothing that you've told us or achieved in this area in the last 3 months



Imagine the uproar if the flaunted 60k concurrent players revealed to be 20k real players (the rest bots). Would not give an healthy picture of the game, wouldn't it? It could even show off that EvE is not growing as much as it's believed.


I have noticed that the number of the users is going down actually.
Might be mroe active accoutns but the number of logged people on average weekday is getting lower to what I remember. Confused

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.25 13:15:00 - [1248]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 25/02/2011 13:16:24
Originally by: Target Painter


(ironically, that space is inhabited by primarily PvErs, while "real PvPers" continue to sit in K-space and whine about local)


This is everything Ive seen lol the hypocracy in this game is amazing

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for the nothing that you've told us or achieved in this area in the last 3 months



Imagine the uproar if the flaunted 60k concurrent players revealed to be 20k real players (the rest bots). Would not give an healthy picture of the game, wouldn't it? It could even show off that EvE is not growing as much as it's believed.


Actually it is growing that much, its just all bots

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.25 13:21:00 - [1249]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
First try get an official statement from CCP whether they value their profit margin more or less than they value the hardcore gaming ideals.

CCP is either with us, or they are with the enemy. They need make clear what side they are on. Money or values.


Frankly, aside from the RMT issue, which takes money out of CCP's pockets, the lack of effort on the part of CCP to resolve this issue, address this issue with the player base and partake in any discussions whatsoever about this issue clearly indicates (to me) that CCP is maintaining a neutral position on bots. Despite having a EULA that clearly states bots are a violation of policy, and aside from the occasional bone they've thrown our way (I do believe it was a fail devblog about RMT that got us all humping on the bot problem again and how fail CCP has been at dealing with it) - they are clearly leaving the problem up to the players to resolve.

How can I be so sure? I can't - but it's a hunch based on my experience with CCP since '03 - whenever CCP fails to address an issue it is because they expect their players to police the problem themselves. Players have turned a blind eye to the bot problem more than CCP does. Even 40+ pages of 'you should do this, you should do that' is a drop in the bucket of the player base. We're the outcasts, not the majority. So it is, for all intents and purposes, up to the people reading and posting in this very forum to take matters into their own hands. What we do with it is another story entirely - I have suggested (and hope) people will begin to use reportbots.com and hammer CCP with petition after petition after petition. The more people actively seeking out bots and reporting them, the more likely CCP is to do something about it. Sitting here and complaining that CCP hasn't done anything... well... also hasn't done anything, has it? Bots have been a problem for years - and have grown to the point of frustrating the average joe player, killing the Eve economy and fielding @ssloads of titans, supercaps and caps in nullsec - not *only* due to a lack of effort on the part of CCP, but also a lack of effort on the part of players to proactively eliminate the problem.

Will we be able to detect all bots, everywhere? Probably not. Will we be able to report on enough bots to highlight the players, corporations, alliances and locations of bots? Absolutely. So, again, I recommend and suggest players take action to locate and report as many bots as they possibly can. I've banged my head against the wall on this issue with CCP, other players, et al. It's the whole reason reportbots.com was born - I got fed up with the lack of efforts on the part of both CCP and the players. CCP has consistently failed to provide us an easy way to even report bots (e.g. right-click -> Report suspected bot) so my aim was to provide as easy a way as I could to generate the petitions required, teach others how to spot and report bots, and provide a system of evidence that illustrates the problem. So, the easy tool is now there - it is up to the player base to use it and recommend it to others.

It's the only way forward I can see on this problem. If I'm wrong... so be it. At least I'm trying to do something about it and not just complaining. People have just either forgotten how to help themselves, or have become too complacent to do anything about it.

Myz Toyou
the Organ Grinder and Company
Posted - 2011.02.25 13:28:00 - [1250]
 

Originally by: chrisss0r
Well it's funny i'm not the only one to notice that line of defense. I put a post on kugu that's very similar.

People complain about botting ruining the game and out of nowhere a horde of angry russians show up and complain about how botting is a small problem and even if it were a big propblem "the nc does it as well!!!!" somehow hoping that would be an argument to leave botting alone.

pretty revealing.


When I was with BricK atleast Interstellar eXodus had some bots running 24/7 in Stain and created some drama when an corpm8 Awoxed them.

Maybe every 0.0 alliance playing the blamegame here should just start to look in the mirrow 1st and punish their bot members endlessly before throwing rocks, that would cut atleast 50% of the problem.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.25 13:36:00 - [1251]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Even 40+ pages of 'you should do this, you should do that' is a drop in the bucket of the player base. We're the outcasts, not the majority.


Exactly. They don't care what 10, 20, or 50 people think, right or wrong. If you can't beat them, join them.

To the Bot-Mobile!

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.02.25 14:02:00 - [1252]
 

Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: chrisss0r
...


When I was with BricK atleast Interstellar eXodus had some bots running 24/7 in Stain and created some drama when an corpm8 Awoxed them.

Maybe every 0.0 alliance playing the blamegame here should just start to look in the mirrow 1st and punish their bot members endlessly before throwing rocks, that would cut atleast 50% of the problem.
Why kill a corp revenue stream? Even at a rate of 10%, billions of ISK can be made on null-sec ratting taxes. For those entities that do not hold moons, that income can help with reimbursements and padding the CEO(s) wallets. What incentive is there to police one's own membership?

It is much more fun to go kill opponents' botting operations. LaughingLaughingLaughing

The VC's
Posted - 2011.02.25 14:46:00 - [1253]
 

This wouldn't be the first time an Icelandic company's been associated with money launderingugh

http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=28304&ew_0_a_id=139588

Perramas
Caldari
Pan Caldarian Ventures
Posted - 2011.02.25 14:47:00 - [1254]
 

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Consortium Agent
To the Bot-Mobile!

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.25 16:00:00 - [1255]
 

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Even 40+ pages of 'you should do this, you should do that' is a drop in the bucket of the player base. We're the outcasts, not the majority.


Exactly. They don't care what 10, 20, or 50 people think, right or wrong. If you can't beat them, join them.

To the Bot-Mobile!


You must *first* try to beat them. As far as I can tell the only ones really doing anything about the bot problem *is* CCP. I know! That's not saying much is it?

So, to my point about complacency, the players haven't tried to beat bots... yet. Not in a real way. Botageddon is *long overdue* if you catch my drift. Let us first start by trying to beat them at their own game (which is a fun exercise in strategy, for what it's worth) before you go joining the rank and file of mindless bot runners... and invariably end up on the list of bots those of us who are not complacent report ;P

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.25 16:06:00 - [1256]
 

Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara

It is much more fun to go kill opponents' botting operations. LaughingLaughingLaughing


That works. Just so long as the alliances regularly kill off each others botters, then the problem still goes down. Purging your own alliance is morally cleaner, but I'd take the alliances killing off each others botters. In fact, why they don't is a bit beyond me - you'd think the best way to kill an alliance would be to take away their supply of ISK while at the same time dealing lots of damage. Go for it! :)

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.25 16:30:00 - [1257]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Even 40+ pages of 'you should do this, you should do that' is a drop in the bucket of the player base. We're the outcasts, not the majority.


Exactly. They don't care what 10, 20, or 50 people think, right or wrong. If you can't beat them, join them.

To the Bot-Mobile!


You CCP must *first* try to beat them. As far as I can tell the only ones that should really be doing anything about the bot problem *is* CCP. I know! That's not saying much is it?

So, to my point about complacency, the players haven't tried to beat bots... yet. Not in a real way. Botageddon is *long overdue* if you catch my drift. Let us first start by trying to beat them at their own game (which is a fun exercise in strategy, for what it's worth) before you go joining the rank and file of mindless bot runners... and invariably end up on the list of bots those of us who are not complacent report ;P


We don't have the required tools to police their game. And even if we did, why is it up to us to get rid of those breaking the EULA? If they don't want to level the playing field, I don't see how we should waste our time doing it. Not when we can become a part of the problem rich people. Problem struck out, because it's apparently not a problem.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.25 17:30:00 - [1258]
 

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Even 40+ pages of 'you should do this, you should do that' is a drop in the bucket of the player base. We're the outcasts, not the majority.


Exactly. They don't care what 10, 20, or 50 people think, right or wrong. If you can't beat them, join them.

To the Bot-Mobile!


You CCP must *first* try to beat them. As far as I can tell the only ones that should really be doing anything about the bot problem *is* CCP. I know! That's not saying much is it?

So, to my point about complacency, the players haven't tried to beat bots... yet. Not in a real way. Botageddon is *long overdue* if you catch my drift. Let us first start by trying to beat them at their own game (which is a fun exercise in strategy, for what it's worth) before you go joining the rank and file of mindless bot runners... and invariably end up on the list of bots those of us who are not complacent report ;P


We don't have the required tools to police their game. And even if we did, why is it up to us to get rid of those breaking the EULA? If they don't want to level the playing field, I don't see how we should waste our time doing it. Not when we can become a part of the problem rich people. Problem struck out, because it's apparently not a problem.


You can either choose to be a part of the problem, or a part of the solution. If you, personally, could care less about bots and want to be a bot - then by all means work out. Don't let me stop you from your merry path . o O ( /me scribbles down a name in my little black bot book ) :)

Frankly, I'm speaking to those of us who are here discussing the problem and, ultimately, offering solutions to both players and to CCP. If you feel this is solely CCPs responsibility - I don't blame you. But facts are facts. And the simple fact is CCP isn't doing anything to solve the problem, which means it's up to the players to do something about it - I merely suggest we do more than constantly complain about how CCP could give two rats buttholes about the problem - this is a well known and established fact lacking any evidence to the contrary. Complaining about it does nothing. Finding and reporting bots to CCP and exposing the bots publicly - *that* is doing something. That is a tool that can help the players police the game.

Why should we? I venture to guess everyone has their own personal reasons as to why they would want or not want to help police the game. Mine are simple - I want to level the playing field without resorting to the kind of lame, lazy tactics those who run bots use to build their wallets. I can build my wallet without ever touching a bot. Would it be easier to run a couple dozen rat bots or miner bots and rake in ISK that way? Perhaps. Would I get any enjoyment out of that whatsoever? No. That's my reason. Your reason may be different, and you may not wish to help at all. In which case, why are you posting in this thread?

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.25 17:40:00 - [1259]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent


You can either choose to be a part of the problem, or a part of the solution. If you, personally, could care less about bots and want to be a bot - then by all means work out. Don't let me stop you from your merry path . o O ( /me scribbles down a name in my little black bot book ) :)

Frankly, I'm speaking to those of us who are here discussing the problem and, ultimately, offering solutions to both players and to CCP. If you feel this is solely CCPs responsibility - I don't blame you. But facts are facts. And the simple fact is CCP isn't doing anything to solve the problem, which means it's up to the players to do something about it - I merely suggest we do more than constantly complain about how CCP could give two rats buttholes about the problem - this is a well known and established fact lacking any evidence to the contrary. Complaining about it does nothing. Finding and reporting bots to CCP and exposing the bots publicly - *that* is doing something. That is a tool that can help the players police the game.

Why should we? I venture to guess everyone has their own personal reasons as to why they would want or not want to help police the game. Mine are simple - I want to level the playing field without resorting to the kind of lame, lazy tactics those who run bots use to build their wallets. I can build my wallet without ever touching a bot. Would it be easier to run a couple dozen rat bots or miner bots and rake in ISK that way? Perhaps. Would I get any enjoyment out of that whatsoever? No. That's my reason. Your reason may be different, and you may not wish to help at all. In which case, why are you posting in this thread?


1. re: Problem/solution, that means CCP are part of the problem. If that's the case, we're all doomed.
2. Save your ink. If/when I choose to bot, it won't be with this char/account.
3. After almost 3 months with no reply from CCP, I have honestly no idea why I, or anyone else, add to it. At this point it's comedic.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.25 17:46:00 - [1260]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 25/02/2011 17:46:35
In conclusion: Bots are an integral part of this game.


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