All Channels EVE General Discussion WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!! This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.
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 Author Topic Pod Amarr Posted - 2011.02.23 13:06:00 - [1171] Reading the posts above I have some comments. As to limit the amount of PLEX per computer. That is just silly either remove the PLEX completely OR Keep it without silly limitations. No matter how hard you try there is a way around the IP[most botters use proxy services anyhow and they are quite smart about it]You can even go as far as to run virtual machines to run the bots and similar craziness. Only solution that would work [not prefectly but it would] is to introduce punkbuster typ of softwareThat would have to run with each instance of the client. Added Checksum protection check if the protectionsoftware has not been altered that is checked upon each login is also possible. Activity logs red flagging for excessive 7 hour + stretches of online time maybe a popup after tha time with loggin off if not reacted upon. Redflagged account currrency transaction tracked down and accounts that bought isk banned as well. And most importantly acting upon the reports and permabanning of accounts that would help. I would support removing of PLEX all together btw but there is a lot of legitimate player that use those. Don Kartel Posted - 2011.02.23 13:15:00 - [1172] Just prevent eve running on VMWARE workstation and that will kill off half the botters gfldex Posted - 2011.02.23 14:12:00 - [1173]  Originally by: Don KartelJust prevent eve running on VMWARE workstation and that will kill off half the bottersIf one is able to write a sofisticated bot there is no way to stop him from removing any form of DRM from the client. DRM has not and never will have any effect on the bad boys. All you will do is drive legit players out of the game. k RoseBOOM BOOM POW Posted - 2011.02.23 14:16:00 - [1174] I laughed out loud at idiotsSIGNED FOR POSTING IN A PATHETIC THREAD Kengutsi Akira Posted - 2011.02.23 14:17:00 - [1175]  Originally by: KuronagaI'm considering putting toghether a squad whos entire purpose is to do nothing other then set up drag bubbles at every single belt in Stain, effectively locking down an entire region from botters.If you don't know, Drag bubble > botsThe GMs would go in and take them out and say its to reduce lag. sableyeprinciple of motion Posted - 2011.02.23 14:36:00 - [1176] I do hope they get rid of the bots I seen them all over epsiallyt hem courier bots fleets of entire bestowers ect doing courie rmissiosn 23/7.if they don;t get rid of them they shoudl legalize them for everyone, this is not my preferred osulition but they should just admit they don;t want to bad them and let us all use them if thats hwo they feel. bustergonads Posted - 2011.02.23 14:54:00 - [1177]  Originally by: sableyeif they don;t get rid of them they shoudl legalize them for everyone,By only handing out three day bans they more or less have. Jack GilliganCaldari Provisions Posted - 2011.02.23 15:03:00 - [1178]  Originally by: bustergonads Originally by: sableyeif they don;t get rid of them they shoudl legalize them for everyone,By only handing out three day bans they more or less have.Not 3 day bans, 1 day bans. Fengbao Jiuyue Posted - 2011.02.23 15:12:00 - [1179]  Originally by: Jack Gilligan Originally by: bustergonads Originally by: sableyeif they don;t get rid of them they shoudl legalize them for everyone,By only handing out three day bans they more or less have.Not 3 day bans, 1 day bans.Don't see how this benefits CCP If we all start paying the innerspace guys with our 20$and pay for Eve with isk. Pr0m Queen Posted - 2011.02.23 15:15:00 - [1180] rofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.Ammount of bots in EVE is annoying, true, but blaming just one party for bot usage is plain idiocy. Whole NC territory is one big blue napfest ideal for botters - why not look there? why not ask some particular individuals, how come they know so much about botting in the fisrt place? nah, that needs too much brain power from your common Joe. In the end it's all just dirty politics and dirty media war tricksEN24 series of articles about RMT is just boiling with hate against russians, while you can't beat them on battlefield or outsmart them or beat their famous tenacity, you decide to make them evil for the rest of EVE community?As for people making a lot of isks daily - I can, if I want or need to, farm few billions in a week just by runnig anomalies using my 4 accounts, of course I do it completely manually by myself, using one marauder, carrier and two battleships to simultaneously do two sanctums and two havens. and farming with stuff like motherships will give you even more. in fact, when i actively farm i can make around 300-500kk isk a day, why would anyone need to use bots when you can have this income?to deal with RMT problem, CCP should start acting against ISK buyers more than against botters, because it's the demand that creates the offer in this case. It's not really cause of bots, I guess bots were created to speed up ISK generation for the GROWING DEMAND of the RMT market. Make no mistake, it's not botters who's creating this problem, it's lazy players who find it easier to buy isk than to farm for it. And if not for PLEX being sold officially, this market would be even bigger, because then all the people who try to fund their EVE adventures by selling PLEXes would just turn to illegal isk sellers. What CCP can also do is to lower PLEX prices a bit, mybe make them 15 days instead of 30 to add more options for people with limited funds that would otherwise (instead of buying PLEX) spend their limited funds on illegal isk. It's just basic economy rules - supply and demand, and I think this is why CCP can't really take any action in current situation. I mean they can do something that would damage EVE greatly or even completely change it, but that would be too much. And there's no way some small simple half-measures can deal with this RMT problem.So guys, just let CCP do their job and just be happy about that you play in one of most awesome and original MMOs ever created. Grey StormshadowStarwreck Industries Posted - 2011.02.23 15:58:00 - [1181] Originally by: Pr0m Queenrofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.Ammount of bots in EVE is annoying, true, but blaming just one party for bot usage is plain idiocy. Whole NC territory is one big blue napfest ideal for botters - why not look there? why not ask some particular individuals, how come they know so much about botting in the fisrt place? nah, that needs too much brain power from your common Joe. In the end it's all just dirty politics and dirty media war tricksEN24 series of articles about RMT is just boiling with hate against russians, while you can't beat them on battlefield or outsmart them or beat their famous tenacity, you decide to make them evil for the rest of EVE community?As for people making a lot of isks daily - I can, if I want or need to, farm few billions in a week just by runnig anomalies using my 4 accounts, of course I do it completely manually by myself, using one marauder, carrier and two battleships to simultaneously do two sanctums and two havens. and farming with stuff like motherships will give you even more. in fact, when i actively farm i can make around 300-500kk isk a day, why would anyone need to use bots when you can have this income?to deal with RMT problem, CCP should start acting against ISK buyers more than against botters, because it's the demand that creates the offer in this case. It's not really cause of bots, I guess bots were created to speed up ISK generation for the GROWING DEMAND of the RMT market. Make no mistake, it's not botters who's creating this problem, it's lazy players who find it easier to buy isk than to farm for it. And if not for PLEX being sold officially, this market would be even bigger, because then all the people who try to fund their EVE adventures by selling PLEXes would just turn to illegal isk sellers. What CCP can also do is to lower PLEX prices a bit, mybe make them 15 days instead of 30 to add more options for people with limited funds that would otherwise (instead of buying PLEX) spend their limited funds on illegal isk. It's just basic economy rules - supply and demand, and I think this is why CCP can't really take any action in current situation. I mean they can do something that would damage EVE greatly or even completely change it, but that would be too much. And there's no way some small simple half-measures can deal with this RMT problem.So guys, just let CCP do their job and just be happy about that you play in one of most awesome and original MMOs ever created.No offence but after reading this I clearly see that you haven't read even small parts of the posts in this thread.The botting is problem of entire 0.0 region. If there have been posts where someone points finger only to Russians, they surely aren't in line with the majority of posts in this thread.Also it is really interesting way to assume that removing main isk source from isk sellers wouldn't seriously cut down the available isk in RMT market. Instead you offer solution where bots should not be touched and PLEX prices should be lowered even more. Funny part is that bots are the ones that make plex prices go up.I'm sorry but after reading all posts in this thread I've come to conclusion that anyone who is not willing to get permanetly rid of the bots is either botter or in a position which gets some kind of benefits from people who use bots.This is of course my personal opinnion and can be flawed. However before judging and throwing me to wolves, make sure you have read the entire thread and made true opinnion of your own. Jack GilliganCaldari Provisions Posted - 2011.02.23 16:15:00 - [1182] Originally by: Fengbao Jiuyue Originally by: Jack Gilligan Originally by: bustergonads Originally by: sableyeif they don;t get rid of them they shoudl legalize them for everyone,By only handing out three day bans they more or less have.Not 3 day bans, 1 day bans.Don't see how this benefits CCP If we all start paying the innerspace guys with our 20$ and pay for Eve with isk.Irony: You are a lot more likely to be banned for making a statement like that than you would if you ran 10 bots and had people petition you. VonluttAmarr Posted - 2011.02.23 16:42:00 - [1183]  Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Originally by: Pr0m Queenrofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.Ammount of bots in EVE is annoying, true, but blaming just one party for bot usage is plain idiocy. Whole NC territory is one big blue napfest ideal for botters - why not look there? why not ask some particular individuals, how come they know so much about botting in the fisrt place? nah, that needs too much brain power from your common Joe. In the end it's all just dirty politics and dirty media war tricksEN24 series of articles about RMT is just boiling with hate against russians, while you can't beat them on battlefield or outsmart them or beat their famous tenacity, you decide to make them evil for the rest of EVE community?As for people making a lot of isks daily - I can, if I want or need to, farm few billions in a week just by runnig anomalies using my 4 accounts, of course I do it completely manually by myself, using one marauder, carrier and two battleships to simultaneously do two sanctums and two havens. and farming with stuff like motherships will give you even more. in fact, when i actively farm i can make around 300-500kk isk a day, why would anyone need to use bots when you can have this income?to deal with RMT problem, CCP should start acting against ISK buyers more than against botters, because it's the demand that creates the offer in this case. It's not really cause of bots, I guess bots were created to speed up ISK generation for the GROWING DEMAND of the RMT market. Make no mistake, it's not botters who's creating this problem, it's lazy players who find it easier to buy isk than to farm for it. And if not for PLEX being sold officially, this market would be even bigger, because then all the people who try to fund their EVE adventures by selling PLEXes would just turn to illegal isk sellers. What CCP can also do is to lower PLEX prices a bit, mybe make them 15 days instead of 30 to add more options for people with limited funds that would otherwise (instead of buying PLEX) spend their limited funds on illegal isk. It's just basic economy rules - supply and demand, and I think this is why CCP can't really take any action in current situation. I mean they can do something that would damage EVE greatly or even completely change it, but that would be too much. And there's no way some small simple half-measures can deal with this RMT problem.So guys, just let CCP do their job and just be happy about that you play in one of most awesome and original MMOs ever created.No offence but after reading this I clearly see that you haven't read even small parts of the posts in this thread.The botting is problem of entire 0.0 region. If there have been posts where someone points finger only to Russians, they surely aren't in line with the majority of posts in this thread.Also it is really interesting way to assume that removing main isk source from isk sellers wouldn't seriously cut down the available isk in RMT market. Instead you offer solution where bots should not be touched and PLEX prices should be lowered even more. Funny part is that bots are the ones that make plex prices go up.I'm sorry but after reading all posts in this thread I've come to conclusion that anyone who is not willing to get permanetly rid of the bots is either botter or in a position which gets some kind of benefits from people who use bots.This is of course my personal opinnion and can be flawed. However before judging and throwing me to wolves, make sure you have read the entire thread and made true opinnion of your own.Confirming Pr0m Queen is a Mad Russian Bot. Er Ego Posted - 2011.02.23 17:12:00 - [1184] I'd say don't ban the botters. Simply reset their skillpoints to starting levels, and strip them of all assets except 5000 isk, a noobship and 1 trit. Much more of a kick in the teeth that way. KuronagaBlack Snake Syndicate Posted - 2011.02.23 17:37:00 - [1185]  Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Vicious Cell Originally by: KuronagaI'm considering putting toghether a squad whos entire purpose is to do nothing other then set up drag bubbles at every single belt in Stain, effectively locking down an entire region from botters.If you don't know, Drag bubble > botsOmg. I would love to see that happening. That wouldn't stop them, as they just make BM's 50km above each belt - which is what the smart ones do anyways, as it makes it harder to tackle one when scanning its belt and warping to it.Good point.Very well then, three bubbles per belt. Kengutsi Akira Posted - 2011.02.23 18:10:00 - [1186] Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 23/02/2011 18:11:16 Originally by: Pr0m Queenrofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?riverini and Majesta Empire are a part of Northern Coalition, this whole deal was brought to you by his site that was already mentioned here, and it all is, in fact, part of media campaign against Drone Region Russian Forces that are currently at war with NC that lasts since dawn of times I might add.so if we remove the bots itlll hurt them? So yer saying they are massively running bot farms then? Isnt that illegal? Originally by: Er EgoI'd say don't ban the botters. Simply reset their skillpoints to starting levels, and strip them of all assets except 5000 isk, a noobship and 1 trit. Much more of a kick in the teeth that way.yeah, every month gfldex Posted - 2011.02.23 22:58:00 - [1187] It's a bit sad: Originally by: blizzardWe recently issued a new round of account suspensions and bans to StarCraft II players who were in violation of the Battle.net Terms of Use for cheating and/or using hack programs while playing. In addition to undermining the spirit of fair competition that’s essential to play on Battle.net, cheating and hacking can lead to stability and performance issues with the service. As always, maintaining a stable, safe, and secure online-gaming experience for legitimate players is a top priority for us, and we'll be continuing to keep watch on Battle.net and take action as needed. Saand Dra Posted - 2011.02.24 00:32:00 - [1188] Thread signed.I hate cheaters. Vaerah VahrokhaMinmatarVahrokh Consulting Posted - 2011.02.24 00:47:00 - [1189]  Originally by: gfldexIt's a bit sad: Originally by: blizzardWe recently issued a new round of account suspensions and bans to StarCraft II players who were in violation of the Battle.net Terms of Use for cheating and/or using hack programs while playing. In addition to undermining the spirit of fair competition that’s essential to play on Battle.net, cheating and hacking can lead to stability and performance issues with the service. As always, maintaining a stable, safe, and secure online-gaming experience for legitimate players is a top priority for us, and we'll be continuing to keep watch on Battle.net and take action as needed.Why sad? There's someone who cares of reducing bots, it's just not the company you pay to. foxnodBrotherhood of the Coast Posted - 2011.02.24 02:28:00 - [1190] I think it's funny how people think you can just wardec the bot corps. I just wardeced 2 of them today and one of them closed it's doors less than 2hrs. later. The other one.....we'll see how long before they all drop corp for the security blanket of the npc corp. Arnakoz Posted - 2011.02.24 02:38:00 - [1191] let me start with i DONT bot. but i also dont really care that others do.... my reasoning for this is:1. people talk about how "they ruin the game" .. but how? answer: they make mining less profitable? sure, but to me an activity which takes zero talent and can be performed whilst watching the latest Sasha Grey flick ought to yield less profit than everything else. further, if supply went down as much as it would after a BOT slaughter, yes the price of minerals would go up. So, it may appear that miners would finally make real isk... but there is further cause and effect to be considered here. Namely, who is going to buy your minerals now that they can't be used to make a profit? That is until the cost of everything else goes up to match. But then the next issue will become that people wont be able to afford as much end product and thus the demand for everything will go down. hi-sec pvp will come to a screeching halt, and while the manufacturers are making a profit on individual items, they aren't moving near the volume they did before, resulting in a net loss of total income. which would even be true for the miners - they are making more, but can afford less. so whats the point?with that said unless you NEVER buy ANYTHING from the market, or have decided that you will only pay 5x the average cost for any given item, then you have made isk from the bots - either by having saved isk on things you purchase, or by the fact that your product sells as much as it does. The real problem to me is that CCP shouldn't have allowed it to get to the point. at this point i think the game would actually be WORSE off if we got rid of them. 2. bubbles on the gates and at every belt would accomplish nothing: instead of warping to the warp-in point, they would warp directly to a bookmarked roid. so unless you covered every roid in every belt they would just adjust their bookmarks. and if you did manage to drop those thousands of bubbles, they would simply be popped. 3. making bots not run in VMWare or adding DRM or blablabla to make the programs not work wont accomplish anything either. the app writers will ALWAYS find a way around it. if a person can play the game, then so can a BOT. period. all you would be accomplishing is making the game annoying for the rest of us. even spyware like what blizzard uses is useless - the RMT guys still use bots. 4. PLEX is about the only good combat against RMT. as the ISK value of plex goes up, the $value of ISK goes down. that was an awesome idea on the part of CCP. but that will still never stop botters, b/c individuals would still do it for ISK. all I'm trying to say is that bots are already integral to our eve experience and can't be gotten rid of. so why care?.. Angel of Night Posted - 2011.02.24 02:57:00 - [1192] Originally by: Arnakozall I'm trying to say is that bots are already integral to our eve experience and can't be gotten rid of. so why care?..Really simple and short answer is 'better overall pvp balance, more interesting and appealing 0.0 space, more active community'. KuronagaBlack Snake Syndicate Posted - 2011.02.24 04:11:00 - [1193] Originally by: Arnakozlet me start with i DONT bot. but i also dont really care that others do.... my reasoning for this is:1. people talk about how "they ruin the game" .. but how? answer: they make mining less profitable? sure, but to me an activity which takes zero talent and can be performed whilst watching the latest Sasha Grey flick ought to yield less profit than everything else. further, if supply went down as much as it would after a BOT slaughter, yes the price of minerals would go up. So, it may appear that miners would finally make real isk... but there is further cause and effect to be considered here. Namely, who is going to buy your minerals now that they can't be used to make a profit? That is until the cost of everything else goes up to match. But then the next issue will become that people wont be able to afford as much end product and thus the demand for everything will go down. hi-sec pvp will come to a screeching halt, and while the manufacturers are making a profit on individual items, they aren't moving near the volume they did before, resulting in a net loss of total income. which would even be true for the miners - they are making more, but can afford less. so whats the point?with that said unless you NEVER buy ANYTHING from the market, or have decided that you will only pay 5x the average cost for any given item, then you have made isk from the bots - either by having saved isk on things you purchase, or by the fact that your product sells as much as it does. The real problem to me is that CCP shouldn't have allowed it to get to the point. at this point i think the game would actually be WORSE off if we got rid of them. 2. bubbles on the gates and at every belt would accomplish nothing: instead of warping to the warp-in point, they would warp directly to a bookmarked roid. so unless you covered every roid in every belt they would just adjust their bookmarks. and if you did manage to drop those thousands of bubbles, they would simply be popped. 3. making bots not run in VMWare or adding DRM or blablabla to make the programs not work wont accomplish anything either. the app writers will ALWAYS find a way around it. if a person can play the game, then so can a BOT. period. all you would be accomplishing is making the game annoying for the rest of us. even spyware like what blizzard uses is useless - the RMT guys still use bots. 4. PLEX is about the only good combat against RMT. as the ISK value of plex goes up, the$ value of ISK goes down. that was an awesome idea on the part of CCP. but that will still never stop botters, b/c individuals would still do it for ISK. all I'm trying to say is that bots are already integral to our eve experience and can't be gotten rid of. so why care?..If you are a new alliance that doesn't bot, you have no chance against an old alliance that does bot (hint: every major power bots). It wouldn't even matter if you matched them in funds, skillpoints, and playerbase -- they would win the war of attrition every time.In short, it sabotages Eve completely. Apollo GabrielMercatorisEtherium Cartel Posted - 2011.02.24 04:17:00 - [1194]  Originally by: Pr0m Queenrofl guys, don't you understand the real problem?Lol, thanks for confirming that we don't pick prom queens for their brains. It would be hard for you to sound less informed on the thread. Apollo GabrielMercatorisEtherium Cartel Posted - 2011.02.24 04:22:00 - [1195]  Originally by: gfldexIt's a bit sad:\begin{sarcasm}No don't you get it, doing so would start an arms race! We can't tell you what we do, because they will learn and get better, we must work secretly with updates every 3 years or they win! We must keep the revenue coming in or we'll be dust, er not finish dust, we must, we must, we must increase our bust! \end{sarcasm}ok even I admit I fell apart at the end, felt like Glenn Beck for a minute. Richard AielCaldariUmbra ExitiumOrder Of The Unforgiving Posted - 2011.02.24 05:05:00 - [1196] Edited by: Richard Aiel on 24/02/2011 05:07:48 Originally by: Arnakoz all I'm trying to say is that bots are already integral to our eve experience and can't be gotten rid of. so why care?..Spend much time in 0.0?Short answer: 20 titans in one fight and 100 plus supercaps.Titans used to be hard to get. Five was a major achievementI have an idea for the eve24 guys. Make a page that goes with the page where you can report bots. The page takes each unique bot name and counts it. Basically, something to start counting the numbers of these things.If the number hit in the 50 to 100 thousand range, that would be a significant and SHOULD open more than a few eyes lol Taranxar Thrax Posted - 2011.02.24 06:47:00 - [1197] agreed Shoopa Whoopa Posted - 2011.02.24 07:00:00 - [1198] Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 24/02/2011 07:05:13I'll make a few suggestions on how to deal with this problem.Of course this post will be overlooked. ;)Add a 'not PLEX eligible' flag to bot accounts. They must be paid with hard cash.Instead of banning bot accounts in any way you should cancel all game time (forfeit due to EULA violation), basicly putting the account into 'unpaid' status that can only be revoked by paying real money.Some measure to freeze or damage their wallet/assets would also be reasonable, since those assets and ISK were aquired by illegal means.Finally, delay people showing up in local or get rid of it alltogether:You only see who's there if you scan them down, they talk or you see them visually.You should do this to ALL accounts a botter has, regardless of which one is a bot.Punish the player, not one account. Other MMO providers realized the need of this many years ago. Kengutsi Akira Posted - 2011.02.24 07:04:00 - [1199]  Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa delay people showing up in local or get rid of it alltogether:You only see who's there if you scan them down, they talk or you see them visually.yeaaaaaathat wouldnt help pirates or those guys that wardec to grief at all Shoopa Whoopa Posted - 2011.02.24 07:07:00 - [1200] Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 24/02/2011 07:08:00 Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa delay people showing up in local or get rid of it alltogether:You only see who's there if you scan them down, they talk or you see them visually.yeaaaaaathat wouldnt help pirates or those guys that wardec to grief at allI don't care who it helps.It's bull**** in the first place. Which kind of magic makes people appear in local if they want or not?Especially in 0.0.It's some Concord magic?Nope, it's BS.Certainly that will change a lot.. for the better.Of course the exact means of adding people to local (which would then be pretty much client side) would need elaboration.

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