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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Tiima Tuscan
Posted - 2011.02.22 17:55:00 - [1141]
 

Originally by: Quazal Atreides
Originally by: Cyrus Doul

, By doing so the money can leave their account. get washed by blinks account and sent back as an actual item instead of isk again. Adding one more layer of masking to it. you see people like Quazal Atreides on there 15+ hours a day. at this point they have bots for the bots. He at this point has put at least 55 billion isk into the game as shown by his achievements. A"


Firstly who the **** are you calling me a bot, I am a player who has enough isk to gamble just because you have to beg borrow steal to get enough isk to play per month that aint my problem

and for the record this is taken directly from Somer site

ISK Deposited 118,500,000,000 ISK
Blinks Played 8,433
Promo Blinks Played 49
Blinks Won 1,138
Megablinks Won 96
Win Ratio 13.49%
Value of Blinks Won 160,076,000,000 ISK

So a bot am i :) the fact if you even bothered to get off your lazy arse and investigate is that i sit in the blink channel all day and chat away you can pop in most times and say hi.
Hey half time im in game half time im the fact that i can do research on my final dissatation paper and click a button and win things is non of your F****ing business.

So next time you decide to call someone a bot please get off you lazy arse and do some investigation.

If you even bothered to do checking on me on the forum you would see that i run succesfull business and ddonate to the community (not much granted) but more than some whiny ass 2isk pimp like you.

Thanks and good night!


NB

This script wasn't written by a Bot but a ****ed of player who like most people in eve takes great pleasure in killing/and hutting out ratting/mining macros



Maybe you should learn how to spell dissertation before you submit it for marking Wink

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:00:00 - [1142]
 

Originally by: Neamus
Shouldn't the primary focus be on technical measures against botting?

Personally, I think that the primary focus at this point should be getting CCP to admit that there is a problem, that the problem is not limited RMT, and that the measures to date have not been adequet to make the player base believe that CCP takes the problem seriously.

I honestly believe that if CCP decided that eliminating bots from Eve was in their best interest, we wouldn't need to discuss technical measures.

4 2 0
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:12:00 - [1143]
 

Originally by: Othran
The discussion over PLEX prices is irrelevant and is simply a distraction from the main point.



Not in any way irrelevant. Players can run as many accounts as they want without paying any real money. Most players wont want to spend the time setting up a RMT buisness to pay for their bot accounts.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:24:00 - [1144]
 

Edited by: Othran on 22/02/2011 18:26:36
Originally by: 4 2 0
Originally by: Othran
The discussion over PLEX prices is irrelevant and is simply a distraction from the main point.



Not in any way irrelevant. Players can run as many accounts as they want without paying any real money. Most players wont want to spend the time setting up a RMT buisness to pay for their bot accounts.


Its totally irrelevant in terms of bots. PLEX is "paid for" within a day or two of macro ratting.

Edit - and before you muddy the water more (as that's what you're here for) it wouldn't matter if you increased the cost of PLEX by a factor of ten, bots could still afford it and make some isk for their main/main's alliance. Players couldn't. Bots could, but you know that.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:35:00 - [1145]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 22/02/2011 18:48:49

Originally by: Von Hinten


Did that, got answer telling me that thex have not the ressources to investigate. gave them 300 botters + links to sites where corps adtvertises for bot freindly 0.0.

oh, and if you post name of botters you will get banned for harrassment, sad, but true.


Is it funny that its more of a violation of the game to post their names than it is to bot? Also, is it not funny that the company that RUNS THE GAME doesnt "have the resources" to combat these guys?

Originally by: Pod Amarr


But that did not stop blizzard from actually taking both in game and legal action against the botters.


never mentioned them in context to the botters. Tead those posts again. You missed the point
I was trying to point out that gaming companies dont value art over money not that blizzard didnt sue the botters and win... where the hell did you even GET that?

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



YET AGAIN
arg lemme get the post


Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

I really dont think the rest would come out and if it did, most MMO players would be like "bots? so what every game has em. Theyre not a big deal" not knowing it is a big deal in THIS game cause of the single shard and the way the economy works.



Also said earlier:
Originally by: Sullen Skoung


Funny thing about that, as has already been said, Bots are in EVERY MMO.
Most MMOs however dont have the player run economy (hah) that we do so bots arent an issue, and so noone cares about them. So unless youre already in this game, and know the issue is a problem, then reading about how EVE is bot riddled isnt gonna matter.
On the other hand, also, as previously stated, making the issue more well known will drive people that would be interested in the game away.
"Yes, but that will put pressure on CCP"
Yes, but that will damage EVE in the process. Google the term "Pyrrhic victory"
Better yet; here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pyrrhic victory
Quote:
–noun
a victory or goal achieved at too great a cost.




Is it worth possibly driving off anyone that might to legitimately WANT to play the game and/or invite MORE botting companies (once they realize theres a game where botting is apparently NOT illegal) into/from the game, possibly doing irreversible harm to the game?
Sounds like a scorched earth policy to get what you want

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Wow. Some of the comments on this thread seem to suggest this is nothing more than a witch hunt against players that enjoy mining and missioning.

By the definitions put forth here I am a bot Rolling Eyes.

Feel free to report me.




wont matter lol

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:52:00 - [1146]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 22/02/2011 18:53:03
Originally by: General Windypops
Edited by: General Windypops on 22/02/2011 14:18:20
Originally by: Greniard
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.

If EN24 do what it seems they are planning, it's going to be epic. <3


Not quite that they're 'furious' with EN24 but CCP have refused me an interview because they claim they need to have a 'cooling off' period before they'll talk to us. It's a shame as I think a simple interview would really help us all to understand what they're planning to do about an issue that's clearly of HUGE importance to their players.

I welcome the opportunity for CCP to put over their side of the story whenever they feel ready.




I hope the EN24 guys are ready for a permaban then, CCP has a bad history with that with whistleblowers... hell theres one whose name is eve censored on the forums. (It starts with K)

Originally by: bustergonads
Originally by: Ohmunny

Im sure CCP doesnt want EVE to turn into a bot haven and they probably doing something about it.



5+ years and no sign of this yet...


Yeah, 20+ titans in one fight and hundreds of supercaps dont meant this at all

Richard Aiel
Caldari
Umbra Exitium
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:55:00 - [1147]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan


Remember how they treated K--- over T20?




For history lesson, see sig lol

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 19:51:00 - [1148]
 

Originally by: Othran

Its totally irrelevant in terms of bots. PLEX is "paid for" within a day or two of macro ratting.

Edit - and before you muddy the water more (as that's what you're here for) it wouldn't matter if you increased the cost of PLEX by a factor of ten, bots could still afford it and make some isk for their main/main's alliance. Players couldn't. Bots could, but you know that.


You are correct. The EN24 story estimated that the botters up in the Russian Bot Region Motherland were making between 800M-1B a day. I think that's pretty conservative, but it's a good number for sake of argument.

A PLEX costs between 330 and 350M. Let's split the difference and call it 340M. This means a bot pays for it's monthly game time in the first 8-9 hours it runs. Again, a very conservative estimate. At the low end figure, a bot running 23/7 would make 5.6B A WEEK, which means at 340M*12, or a little over 4B ISK, a bot earns A WHOLE YEAR of game time worth of PLEXS the first week.

And that's just A SINGLE BOT in the crappiest space in all of 0.0, plus most of them are running more than one, as sophisticated macros allow for multiple bots to run on a single PC.

So, yeah, you could TRIPLE the price of PLEX items and it wouldn't really discourage the bots. What increasing PLEX prices COULD do though is remove a lot of the incentive from botting, that being the demand for bought ISK. While I am sure some of the alliance level bots are being run to replace moon income to buy supercap fleets, I think that is the exception. No, most of that ISK is going up for sale on 3rd party sites.



Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 19:58:00 - [1149]
 

we could hurt bots with real money if we found a way to limit PLEX to 1 account per physical location - or IP block.

At the very, very least, prevent PLEX from being applied more than once on the same computer system. Typically bots would use same computer for 2-4 accounts.

People with multiple accounts should not be able to pay for excessive accounts with PLEX. We should all make sacrifices to fight the bots.

lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 20:04:00 - [1150]
 

Keeping the PLEX price up while simultaneously banning botters has two effects, it puts RMT sites out of business and it reduces the demand for bots by players.

If neither RMT nor players are greatly interested in buying bots then it removes the majority of incentive to write the bot programmes, at the very least it cuts off their funding and drives out the professional bot writers.

The solutions to bots needs to be both technical and financial.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 20:09:00 - [1151]
 

Originally by: lost marble
Keeping the PLEX price up while simultaneously banning botters has two effects, it puts RMT sites out of business and it reduces the demand for bots by players.

If neither RMT nor players are greatly interested in buying bots then it removes the majority of incentive to write the bot programmes, at the very least it cuts off their funding and drives out the professional bot writers.

The solutions to bots needs to be both technical and financial.


Agree completely. No one thing (other than possibly removing PLEX entirely) will kill the bots. They need to be hit from all fronts simultaneously: Bans of toons that "play" 23/7 for days at a time, bans of alliances where this occurs in an excessive number, manipulation of the price of PLEX so that RMT isk sellers can't compete, ALL of it at the same time.


Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.02.22 20:45:00 - [1152]
 

Ban the bot! Not for 24 hours but delete the account and any associate accounts. I want to see highly active anti-bot offensives non stop, not some once every 2 year Unholy Rage PR campaign.

Also: I don't care if ppl bot for RMT or just for the isk/assets. Hunt them all down, delete all their accounts, no whimpy short term bans.Very Happy

Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.02.22 20:50:00 - [1153]
 

Originally by: lost marble
Keeping the PLEX price up while simultaneously banning botters has two effects, it puts RMT sites out of business and it reduces the demand for bots by players.



Artificially raising PLEX prices will do one more thing: make me stop playing EVE as I'm not going to pay 30-ish dollars a month to play this game and without alt accounts I find EVE no fun.

Also:RMT will always exist. I'm not even against RMT, PLEX is RMT too. It's the automated generation of isk/assets that miffs me off since no legit player can ever compete against a bot.

Yana Cova
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.22 21:07:00 - [1154]
 

Now colour me crazy - but at least the way this is going should solve the problem of RMT at least Razz

As more people realise CCP pretty much endorse botting and this becomes more public domain (3 day ban lolage) more and more people will bot pretty safe to say - given that no-one in their right mind would want or need to pay cash for isk since they can get billions a day with no effort - OMG WIN! So yeah the market will kill itself for RMT through *suspected unoffical CCP policy*

Ofc, what this would also mean is that effectively prices become meaningless - (apart from hyper inflation for officer gear), if ISK becomes meaningless, and everyone bots like crazy as I imagine they will do over time, the only thing that will happen is we burn electricity to run the bots to keep up with the rest - CCP should just in that case make everything isk free and claim at least that way claim they have gone green because they care about the environment Very Happy

Problem solved! TADAAAA, only ofc Tranq would become SISI and noone would play....

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.22 23:22:00 - [1155]
 

Edited by: Fulbert on 22/02/2011 23:28:24
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Also:RMT will always exist. I'm not even against RMT, PLEX is RMT too. It's the automated generation of isk/assets that miffs me off since no legit player can ever compete against a bot.


RMT is a harmful issue by itself, since it can destroy the game. If RMT is too frequent, CCP can be prosecuted in some countries for different reasons (fiscal fraud, illegal gambling, illegal banking activity...). Trading ISK's is an irregular financial activity, and nowadays you can't do anything you want with money.

But you're 100% true : RMT is fueling bots. No RMT, no goldfarming. But real players would still bot if RMT was destroyed.

edit : posting in an epic thread!1!!!

Rent Buzzline
Posted - 2011.02.23 00:06:00 - [1156]
 

Edited by: Rent Buzzline on 23/02/2011 00:07:23
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
I'm not even against RMT, PLEX is RMT too. It's the automated generation of isk/assets that miffs me off since no legit player can ever compete against a bot.


QFT

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.23 03:25:00 - [1157]
 

Well, only 3 posts were deleted. That's not too bad.

Still no actual meaningful replies from the powers that be. Imagine that.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 04:14:00 - [1158]
 

Yeah, plex and RMT arent two different issues lol

Kern Hotha
Posted - 2011.02.23 04:50:00 - [1159]
 

Edited by: Kern Hotha on 23/02/2011 04:51:46
CCP will never do anything about this. It would reduce the important PCU statistic. So the game will remain infested with bots making a mockery of the economy.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.23 05:03:00 - [1160]
 

I'm considering putting toghether a squad whos entire purpose is to do nothing other then set up drag bubbles at every single belt in Stain, effectively locking down an entire region from botters.

If you don't know, Drag bubble > bots

Captain Mung
Posted - 2011.02.23 05:20:00 - [1161]
 

Edited by: Captain Mung on 23/02/2011 05:22:01
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 22/02/2011 18:48:49

Originally by: Von Hinten


Did that, got answer telling me that thex have not the ressources to investigate. gave them 300 botters + links to sites where corps adtvertises for bot freindly 0.0.

oh, and if you post name of botters you will get banned for harrassment, sad, but true.


Is it funny that its more of a violation of the game to post their names than it is to bot? Also, is it not funny that the company that RUNS THE GAME doesnt "have the resources" to combat these guys?


BUT WE ARE GETTING ****ING SUPER BALL SUCKINGLY AWESOME COOL AVATARS AND WALKING IN STATIONS GUYZ LOLZ. WHO CARES ABOUT BOTS... WE GET TO WALK IN STATIONS.

I wonder how long after the Incarna ******ed-ness we will get bots walking around in stations...

Vicious Cell
Amarr
Grim Determination
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.02.23 06:44:00 - [1162]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
I'm considering putting toghether a squad whos entire purpose is to do nothing other then set up drag bubbles at every single belt in Stain, effectively locking down an entire region from botters.

If you don't know, Drag bubble > bots


Omg. I would love to see that happening. YARRRR!!

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.23 06:54:00 - [1163]
 

Originally by: Vicious Cell
Originally by: Kuronaga
I'm considering putting toghether a squad whos entire purpose is to do nothing other then set up drag bubbles at every single belt in Stain, effectively locking down an entire region from botters.

If you don't know, Drag bubble > bots


Omg. I would love to see that happening. YARRRR!!

That wouldn't stop them, as they just make BM's 50km above each belt - which is what the smart ones do anyways, as it makes it harder to tackle one when scanning its belt and warping to it.

Kacer Xenro
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.02.23 09:11:00 - [1164]
 

the only solution to this is to ban the ****ers and install a Warden-like software.

Making Plex's more expensive would just make everyone use bots, lowering the plex price would make everyone RMT.


Kan'Tor
Posted - 2011.02.23 11:55:00 - [1165]
 

Very much looking forward to EN24's next article on this issue, as is ccp's lack of response so far is not unlike there response to :18 months: .. Rolling Eyes

And as to those wondering how hard it is to find these ******* site's just type into your preferred search engine: Eve online *******, I was more surprised by the sheer amount of site's offering illicit service's than anything else.

Also, as to "unholy rage", was it really "unholy rage" or really just "Damp squib" and a 3 day ban?


betty drunkenlord
Posted - 2011.02.23 11:57:00 - [1166]
 

Keep it up Riverini. We need to keep topic alive for CCP to actively advance with unholy rage 2.0. Bots make so much harm to many professions and 0.0 grunts that botting needs to be nerfed to unsustainable level.

Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.23 11:59:00 - [1167]
 

You know, I really haven't been affected by boting too much. Yeah it keeps the price down but that's a good thing really. Cheaper ships, ammo, and moduels. To be honest, and this is going to make me sound kinda like a botter but who cares, the only people who are in an uproar about botters are people who just want more isk in their pocket and are being greedy. I mean it really isn't as if there are that many in proportion to the total population.

Ozwald Rens
Posted - 2011.02.23 12:43:00 - [1168]
 

1) From a technical point of view, it should be very easy to actually detect bots.
(online time, # of players in local, behaviour if somebody warps in, etc) Of course, botters, would try and adjust, however, it's much easier to adjust for CCP as they are sitting on all the data

2) It should also be easy to detect associated accounts

3) 3 day bans for caught botters? Give me a break. Anything less than a permaban is laughable.

4) There is a huge proof of concept that catching botters and RMT is not that hard. The large online poker sites have been doing it successfully for years and have consitently improved their technology with regards to it.

5) If the issue is not being credibly addressed, for me that is the number 1 reason to quit the game.


Ozwald Rens
Posted - 2011.02.23 12:45:00 - [1169]
 

Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
You know, I really haven't been affected by boting too much. Yeah it keeps the price down but that's a good thing really. Cheaper ships, ammo, and moduels. To be honest, and this is going to make me sound kinda like a botter but who cares, the only people who are in an uproar about botters are people who just want more isk in their pocket and are being greedy. I mean it really isn't as if there are that many in proportion to the total population.


If the prices were the concern, CCP could just reduce the materials required for building ships & items while at the same time taking action against bots.

Mernek
Posted - 2011.02.23 12:48:00 - [1170]
 

Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
You know, I really haven't been affected by boting too much. Yeah it keeps the price down but that's a good thing really. Cheaper ships, ammo, and moduels. To be honest, and this is going to make me sound kinda like a botter but who cares, the only people who are in an uproar about botters are people who just want more isk in their pocket and are being greedy. I mean it really isn't as if there are that many in proportion to the total population.


In the long run it should not make a difference


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