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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:16:00 - [1111]
 

Edited by: General Windypops on 22/02/2011 14:18:20
Originally by: Greniard
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.

If EN24 do what it seems they are planning, it's going to be epic. <3


Not quite that they're 'furious' with EN24 but CCP have refused me an interview because they claim they need to have a 'cooling off' period before they'll talk to us. It's a shame as I think a simple interview would really help us all to understand what they're planning to do about an issue that's clearly of HUGE importance to their players.

I welcome the opportunity for CCP to put over their side of the story whenever they feel ready.


Ohmunny
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:19:00 - [1112]
 

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Ohmunny, if they do nothing, it deteriorates into everyone botting to stand a chance in the isk-dependent 0.0 areas.

And people in high sec will start doing it whilst they are at work. So they don't need to grind.

If it's not stopped, the game will spiral into oblivion.


I guess it is a careless and self-fish thinking coming from me. Im going to agree with what you are saying. Anyway, lets spend more time playing and less time QQing about botting. Im sure CCP doesnt want EVE to turn into a bot haven and they probably doing something about it.

bustergonads
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:35:00 - [1113]
 

Originally by: Ohmunny

Im sure CCP doesnt want EVE to turn into a bot haven and they probably doing something about it.



5+ years and no sign of this yet...

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:38:00 - [1114]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/02/2011 14:39:16
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



CCP doesn't want to stamp out bots, obviously. They like the fact they are getting extra money from PLEX purchases and they don't want that gravy train to stop.

Well, it wouldn't stop, but without the botters there would be less demand for PLEX items which would mean lower prices for them on the market and thus, less incentive for people to buy them from CCP to convert to ISK. This is why "Unholy Rage" was never repeated after they realized the effect botters would have on the PLEX market and their revenues.

They need all that money after all to keep developing DUST and Twilight Online.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:49:00 - [1115]
 

Originally by: Ohmunny
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Ohmunny, if they do nothing, it deteriorates into everyone botting to stand a chance in the isk-dependent 0.0 areas.

And people in high sec will start doing it whilst they are at work. So they don't need to grind.

If it's not stopped, the game will spiral into oblivion.


I guess it is a careless and self-fish thinking coming from me. Im going to agree with what you are saying. Anyway, lets spend more time playing and less time QQing about botting. Im sure CCP doesnt want EVE to turn into a bot haven and they probably doing something about it.


The old ostrich move doesn't really work. The offenders get a 3 day ban. lol, you've got be kidding. I don't want a perma-ban, I want account deletion. What ****ing use is a 3 day ban? Oh, they get to turn their PC off for 3 days now, sweet. Oh wait, they can just use their other 7 accounts.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:53:00 - [1116]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/02/2011 14:39:16
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



CCP doesn't want to stamp out bots, obviously. They like the fact they are getting extra money from PLEX purchases and they don't want that gravy train to stop.

Well, it wouldn't stop, but without the botters there would be less demand for PLEX items which would mean lower prices for them on the market and thus, less incentive for people to buy them from CCP to convert to ISK. This is why "Unholy Rage" was never repeated after they realized the effect botters would have on the PLEX market and their revenues.

They need all that money after all to keep developing DUST and Twilight Online.



You know when you put it like that, it kind of horrifies me when I think about how the CSM talked CCP out of using plex for microtransactions (temporarily, at least).

If the demand for them had gone up like it was supposed to a few months back, it probably would've given the excuse we needed to get rid of the damn things. I can't say I like microtransactions but if I had to choose between that and bots, I'd scorch the Effing bots.

Angel of Night
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:59:00 - [1117]
 

Originally by: General Windypops

Not quite that they're 'furious' with EN24 but CCP have refused me an interview because they claim they need to have a 'cooling off' period before they'll talk to us. It's a shame as I think a simple interview would really help us all to understand what they're planning to do about an issue that's clearly of HUGE importance to their players.

I welcome the opportunity for CCP to put over their side of the story whenever they feel ready.



I surely hope that this 'cooling off' period isn't just coverup for 'we need more time to sweep this entire thing under the rug'.

Btw remember incarna oh that lovely incarna and holy, even godly station walking. What bots? You can walk cant you see! Who cares about few bots? We already banned them for 1-3 days - just let it go and run around in your quarters like we want you to.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:13:00 - [1118]
 

Originally by: General Windypops

Not quite that they're 'furious' with EN24 but CCP have refused me an interview because they claim they need to have a 'cooling off' period before they'll talk to us. It's a shame as I think a simple interview would really help us all to understand what they're planning to do about an issue that's clearly of HUGE importance to their players.

I welcome the opportunity for CCP to put over their side of the story whenever they feel ready.




Remember how they treated K--- over T20?

That's why the blackout. They are looking for scapegoats to ban rather than dealing with the problem. They probably have "EULA lawyers" looking for the clause to accuse your reporter of "OMG HAX!" in collecting the data. CCP has a history of reacting to being publicly embarrassed by punishing the whistleblower. CCP has a history and a habit of punishing the messenger.

The article on EN24 shows how easy it is to find, identify, and collect evidence on bots, especially if you were a GM and didn't have to go through all the bother of travel, being visible in local, etc that an ordinary player has to, and exposes the fact that they clearly DO NOT do this is due to pure laziness and lack of will to do anything. Add to it the fact that the reported bots got only 24 hour bans as the final clincher that CCP does not take this seriously at all, it proves their statements to the contrary to be lies.

They take ISK sellers seriously (supposedly) while they don't bother at all with the source, ie, how all that ISK is generated. If they attacked the bots, which would limit the supply, the cost of ISK would rise and be more in line with PLEX, which would actually SOLVE THE PROBLEM of people wanting to buy ISK! I can't understand why they can't see this.

Well, I can, actually, I think we are making the mistake of assuming that CCP actually wishes to STOP RMT in ISK and the bots that generate it. If you don't look at this issue from that point of view and instead look at it from what makes CCP the most money you will understand that they have no incentive to stop it.

CCP, it's WAY past time for you to make a definitive statement and back it with decisive action. Sending your mods in here to sabotage our discussion is inappropriate and only makes us angrier.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:15:00 - [1119]
 

Really whine topics ?

Anyone can do it really if you are bit technical you can do it no problem.

It is not like you need possibility all people have the possibility.

The sad true is that CCP does not care about this as long as they paid through the plex system.

ONLY thing that has woken them up is bad press on review sites. Worked with the loag should be done again and on a more massive scale.

Butzewutze
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:16:00 - [1120]
 

What i dont get is why CCP only gives a timeban for 3 days if they found a macrouser. They should be banned and the ip monitored. At least thats what i would do. WAKE UP CCP!

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:17:00 - [1121]
 

Originally by: Angel of Night
Originally by: General Windypops

Not quite that they're 'furious' with EN24 but CCP have refused me an interview because they claim they need to have a 'cooling off' period before they'll talk to us. It's a shame as I think a simple interview would really help us all to understand what they're planning to do about an issue that's clearly of HUGE importance to their players.

I welcome the opportunity for CCP to put over their side of the story whenever they feel ready.



I surely hope that this 'cooling off' period isn't just coverup for 'we need more time to sweep this entire thing under the rug'.

Btw remember incarna oh that lovely incarna and holy, even godly station walking. What bots? You can walk cant you see! Who cares about few bots? We already banned them for 1-3 days - just let it go and run around in your quarters like we want you to.


Just wait until WIS/Incarna adds some activity that you can generate ISK from and bots are made to automate THAT... This will happen, of course, it's inevitable.


Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:20:00 - [1122]
 

Originally by: Butzewutze
What i dont get is why CCP only gives a timeban for 3 days if they found a macrouser. They should be banned and the ip monitored. At least thats what i would do. WAKE UP CCP!


Not even a 3 day ban. 24 hours.

4 2 0
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:29:00 - [1123]
 


The real problem is PLEX

This game is very gear (ship) based, meaning often times new players with expensive ships can easily kill vets.

Whats the point of playing a game when everyone can legit buy as much isk as they want with rl money through plex? It completely ruins all competeivtive aspect of this game.

Plex also is the reason why there are so many bots. Many players want the isk but don't want to pay for the subs out of their own pocket. Many also dont want to RMT to pay for their accounts, so they let other players and CCP do it for them.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:33:00 - [1124]
 

Originally by: Von Hinten
Edited by: Von Hinten on 22/02/2011 09:23:42
Originally by: Umega
Originally by: Von Hinten
Funny:

most bots scan local for words like "bot" "botter" "macro" all 5-10 minutes. Type this to a local chat where you suppose botters and watch 10 ppl log out 5mins later synchron:p
....

and log in 30min later synchron too :(


I've noticed this too.

If CCP isn't going to take swifter, more concrete standards on the issue.. they basicly are telling us, they want the cash bot subs produce for the company. Reguardless that it ****s over the entire economy of EVE, which is the foundation of this game. Reguardless if it ****s over nullsec into an arms race of cycling top 3 alliances.. which really does create a large stignant mass of space that borders on boredom.

Until CCP hands over the tools to us to handle the problem ourselves.. like delayed local in null, and a growing stiff mining/bounty taxes in NPC corps to eventually force them into wardec'able corps in highsec..

We should do our part til then. Instead of mentally fap'ing off to our beautiful posting and arguing about what CCP should do...

Flood CCP with legit petitions first off.

Secondly, if I knew how.. I'd make a site. Solely dedicated to plastering the names of suspected and confirmed macros for all to see.. and the main characters that control them. Lets expose who is doing what.. Expose which of the major alliances, and just how much they are using bots to fuel their war machines. Smear them through the mud.. its drama.. drama creates interest, interest that note-worthy blogs and interweb articles pick up on and report. Then..

Like 18 months..

You can expect CCP to act swiftly and do something about it.

Til then.. best pray EVE doesn't go sour like every single MMO that has ignored severe bot problems.. and EVE's bot problems are even more serious to its envirnoment than the other games...

This is not a player driven economy because of bots.

Nullsec is not what it could be.. because bots fuel and create the super-cap fleets that exist today. Imagine.. Imagine the effects on supers if bot miners/ratters were entirely removed.. the 'bring supers or go home' problem solved, without actually nerfing the ships. Because losing one would end up hurting a whole, whole lot more than it does now.


Did that, got answer telling me that thex have not the ressources to investigate. gave them 300 botters + links to sites where corps adtvertises for bot freindly 0.0.

oh, and if you post name of botters you will get banned for harrassment, sad, but true.


Send the list to a 3rd party site with the GM comments on How they do not have resources to publish ?

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:37:00 - [1125]
 

Compile all the evidence, GM correspondence, etc, and send it to every gaming news site you can find.

I guess we can only get action from CCP when we cause them to not win some award they nominate themselves for I guess.

lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:39:00 - [1126]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
CCP doesn't want to stamp out bots, obviously. They like the fact they are getting extra money from PLEX purchases and they don't want that gravy train to stop.

Well, it wouldn't stop, but without the botters there would be less demand for PLEX items which would mean lower prices for them on the market and thus, less incentive for people to buy them from CCP to convert to ISK. This is why "Unholy Rage" was never repeated after they realized the effect botters would have on the PLEX market and their revenues.

They need all that money after all to keep developing DUST and Twilight Online.


You know when you put it like that, it kind of horrifies me when I think about how the CSM talked CCP out of using plex for microtransactions (temporarily, at least).

If the demand for them had gone up like it was supposed to a few months back, it probably would've given the excuse we needed to get rid of the damn things. I can't say I like microtransactions but if I had to choose between that and bots, I'd scorch the Effing bots.


It doesn't need microtransactions, the whole plex / botter relationship can be sorted out easily with some basic economics.

During unholy rage PLEX prices dropped to about 250 mill or less, that's £35 for 500 mill isk. What that shows us is that without bots the free market can not sustain a high plex price, it certainly can't compete with RMT sites who will sell you a billion isk for the same £35.

All CCP need to do is set minimum and maximum buy and sell prices in the form of NPC buy and sell orders, this would guarantee value for people wanting to buy isk and if combined with an anti botter initiative would drive RMT prices up so that there's not point in using them any more.

Apart from the occasional player who might be forced to pay for their account with RL money instead of ISK I really see no downside to doing this and on the upside we get rid of bots and CCP get to increase their revenue by owning the entire RMT market.

If you kill off RMT and give permabans to players caught using bots then investment in bots crumbles. What's not to like?

J'Torr Kitano
Caldari
ZiiP Empire
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:45:00 - [1127]
 

WARNING: WOT
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for some time now. I've gone from giggling at the whole 'FEED UP!' thing, to reading it and thinking 'well, I've always known botting goes on, it doesn't really affect me though', to now thinking actually, if the numbers here are accurate then yes, the bots are affecting me. I've only recently got myself into the position where I can solo lvl 4 missions, which I do so that I can buy ships to pvp in (only just creeping into this area now, finally). Having got myself here I'll now be looking at all those other areas of Eve I haven't participated in; War Dec'ing, Low Sec belt ratting, market profits, manufacturing, heck, maybe even mining...but in all these things it now seems obvious, I'll be in direct competition with players who use bots to make their isk.
I'm a casual player, I get on maybe a couple hours during the week and then maybe a 3 or 4 hour session on a Sat or Sun with my corp, which is why initially I thought botting doesn't affect me. I now see how wrong I was. Everything in Eve revolves ultimately around isk - even training the skills becomes irrelevant after a point when you look at how much money these bots make and how they do it. If you you have the most money coming in then you win. You can replace ships, pimp out your POS, hire mercs, buy sovereignty, hell you can buy peoples allegiance = you WIN.
It's my opinion that the moment you embrace all the depth that Eve has to offer in all the ways I mentioned above and more, then that is the moment that you are in direct competition with these bots, whether you admit it or not. Bots now seem be an influencing aspect of the game – ignoring it doesn’t mean it’s not there, that’s like saying hi-sec is safe from pvp. This has been a bit of a Wizard of Oz experience for me, peering behind the CCP curtain and finding a little empty chair in front of a cash machine spewing isk into boxes behind a cardboard cutout of a man frozen in the ‘smile and wave’ pose…

TL:DR = Money is a reflection of win in Eve. How can you possibly compete with 23hr bots? Looking forward to a CCP statement of intended action (not a ‘we care, honest’ post) and will be keeping an eye on the player suggestions in this thread.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:47:00 - [1128]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/02/2011 15:50:32
Originally by: lost marble

During unholy rage PLEX prices dropped to about 250 mill or less, that's £35 for 500 mill isk. What that shows us is that without bots the free market can not sustain a high plex price, it certainly can't compete with RMT sites who will sell you a billion isk for the same £35.

All CCP need to do is set minimum and maximum buy and sell prices in the form of NPC buy and sell orders, this would guarantee value for people wanting to buy isk and if combined with an anti botter initiative would drive RMT prices up so that there's not point in using them any more.

Apart from the occasional player who might be forced to pay for their account with RL money instead of ISK I really see no downside to doing this and on the upside we get rid of bots and CCP get to increase their revenue by owning the entire RMT market.

If you kill off RMT and give permabans to players caught using bots then investment in bots crumbles. What's not to like?


That's the point I've been trying to make but it keeps getting deleted, as I suspect yours will, CCP is insane about wanting to suppress anyone pointing out the fact that PLEX for ISK is, in fact a poor value, AND THE BOTS ARE THE CAUSE OF IT!

Yes, PLEX as it is now can't continue. It needs to be yanked completely and replaced with an outright cash shop, OR, as you suggest, it needs to be supported by NPC orders to keep it at a level where buying ISK from the botters is not a viable option.

Not to mention, price supports for PLEX would make botting more expensive.

A win win. I don't see CCP having the wisdom to see this though, the only CCP people reading this thread are the moderators.

The chief argument against this is that it amounts to interference in the "free market". The market already isn't free. It's being distorted by the botters and the RMT'ers. Failure to take action will cause this distortion to only increase over time, and eventually, cause so much disruption that people stop playing because they can't compete with the bots, keep up with the ever increasing prices for stuff, and they can't afford to buy PLEX's.


lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:59:00 - [1129]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Yes, PLEX as it is now can't continue. It needs to be yanked completely and replaced with an outright cash shop, OR, as you suggest, it needs to be supported by NPC orders to keep it at a level where buying ISK from the botters is not a viable option.



One of the main reasons for not having a cash shop has always been that it bypasses the economy, there are also issues about the slippery slope to selling faction ships and other pay to win options.

The idea of having an NPC buy order is that it only gets used when there are no player orders there, only in very rare circumstances would the player market dry up completely and run out of plexes.

I personally think PLEX is a great idea that's been handled badly, it was meant to combat RMT but by letting bots run rampant it has fuelled them instead. Used properly I see no reason why PLEX shouldn't be able to undercut illegal ISK sites.

Stabby McKnife
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:04:00 - [1130]
 

I, too, am looking forward to CCP actually answering to all this. It's starting to become more and more obvious that CCP doesn't care about botters all, and I'm seriously starting to :tinfoil: because of all this.

Just ban the frackers, seriouly! I won't like Eve less because we lose (over) 9000 bots off the PCU. I can understand that it will be a loss of income, but seriously, if your business model is dependent on people breaking the EULA, then you have a problem.

I know that there are several people working on getting botting stories published on the major MMO sites. Eventually one of them will be published. Eve24, biased as they might be, seem to be on a rampage against bots, and all kugu crap-posting aside, Rivereni doesn't seem to give up anytime soon.

Just 'fix' it, CCP. Please! I want to continue to enjoy your product.

Posting from an alt, as I screwed my subscription up. >.<

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:06:00 - [1131]
 

Originally by: lost marble
Originally by: Kuronaga
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
CCP doesn't want to stamp out bots, obviously. They like the fact they are getting extra money from PLEX purchases and they don't want that gravy train to stop.

Well, it wouldn't stop, but without the botters there would be less demand for PLEX items which would mean lower prices for them on the market and thus, less incentive for people to buy them from CCP to convert to ISK. This is why "Unholy Rage" was never repeated after they realized the effect botters would have on the PLEX market and their revenues.

They need all that money after all to keep developing DUST and Twilight Online.


You know when you put it like that, it kind of horrifies me when I think about how the CSM talked CCP out of using plex for microtransactions (temporarily, at least).

If the demand for them had gone up like it was supposed to a few months back, it probably would've given the excuse we needed to get rid of the damn things. I can't say I like microtransactions but if I had to choose between that and bots, I'd scorch the Effing bots.


It doesn't need microtransactions, the whole plex / botter relationship can be sorted out easily with some basic economics.

During unholy rage PLEX prices dropped to about 250 mill or less, that's £35 for 500 mill isk. What that shows us is that without bots the free market can not sustain a high plex price, it certainly can't compete with RMT sites who will sell you a billion isk for the same £35.

All CCP need to do is set minimum and maximum buy and sell prices in the form of NPC buy and sell orders, this would guarantee value for people wanting to buy isk and if combined with an anti botter initiative would drive RMT prices up so that there's not point in using them any more.

Apart from the occasional player who might be forced to pay for their account with RL money instead of ISK I really see no downside to doing this and on the upside we get rid of bots and CCP get to increase their revenue by owning the entire RMT market.

If you kill off RMT and give permabans to players caught using bots then investment in bots crumbles. What's not to like?


Well for one, you killed off the entire purpose of a player driven economy. Players need to decide how much plex is worth to them, not ccp.

I don't do much trading but I know well enough it is too big of a part of the game to instigate a floor and roof on plex. Furthermore it is highly likely that it would screw over the rest of the games economy at the same time -- other items will change in value to correspond with any changes to the PLEX system, if the PLEX system itself cannot change.

if PLEX is required for certain microtransactions later on (which is very likely) the demand will shoot way up, but so will the prices for everything else since the price of PLEX would be locked. CCP would get to make more money on each individual plex, the player would get shafted, and successful RMT'rs will make an even bigger killing because the actual value of individual plex has dropped, and it is only valuable purchasing them in bulk.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:11:00 - [1132]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/02/2011 16:12:07
Originally by: lost marble

I personally think PLEX is a great idea that's been handled badly, it was meant to combat RMT but by letting bots run rampant it has fuelled them instead. Used properly I see no reason why PLEX shouldn't be able to undercut illegal ISK sites.


CCP's counter argument will be that if PLEX gave you 1B for $35 that it would distort the economy. That is where it's going to have to START at to kill the bots/sellers, it doesn't have to STAY there. The NPC orders should be adjusted over time.

Reality, however, regardless of what CCP thinks is that a value for ISK has already been set. As things are now it's out of their control. But it doesn't HAVE to be.

Adding NPC buy/sell orders would literally give CCP a switch they can adjust to harm bots and ISK sellers when they increase in activity: simply increase the buy orders fro PLEX on the markets so the 3rd party sellers HAVE NO MARKET.


Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:17:00 - [1133]
 

You're gonna see a terrifying backlash if you do that.

How is lowering the value of PLEX going to deter non-RMT? It makes the RMT deal seem even sweeter.

How is raising the value of PLEX going to help the regular player? They'll either stop spending isk on PLEX, or start buying isk from RMT to spend on PLEX, thus multiplying its value.

Remember RMT can always adjust their prices too.

lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:19:00 - [1134]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
Well for one, you killed off the entire purpose of a player driven economy. Players need to decide how much plex is worth to them, not ccp.



Why? Eve's market is no more free than a lion in a safari park, it can move within certain boundaries but CCP set those by deciding resource rates, build quantities etc.

If the 'free market' isn't working then CCP need to change something, just like they do with every other product on the market.

Originally by: Kuronaga

I don't do much trading but I know well enough it is too big of a part of the game to instigate a floor and roof on plex. Furthermore it is highly likely that it would screw over the rest of the games economy at the same time -- other items will change in value to correspond with any changes to the PLEX system, if the PLEX system itself cannot change.



Please name an item that's value is tied to PLEX.

Originally by: Kuronaga

if PLEX is required for certain microtransactions later on (which is very likely) the demand will shoot way up, but so will the prices for everything else since the price of PLEX would be locked. CCP would get to make more money on each individual plex, the player would get shafted, and successful RMT'rs will make an even bigger killing because the actual value of individual plex has dropped, and it is only valuable purchasing them in bulk.



TBH I really don't understand your logic here.

An NPC order is moveable, you could even set it to an algorithm like they do with insurance. The point I was making was that if PLEX isn't undercutting RMT sites then it is fuelling them and there's no point in having it at all.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:55:00 - [1135]
 

Originally by: lost marble
Originally by: Kuronaga
Well for one, you killed off the entire purpose of a player driven economy. Players need to decide how much plex is worth to them, not ccp.



Why? Eve's market is no more free than a lion in a safari park, it can move within certain boundaries but CCP set those by deciding resource rates, build quantities etc.

If the 'free market' isn't working then CCP need to change something, just like they do with every other product on the market.

Originally by: Kuronaga

I don't do much trading but I know well enough it is too big of a part of the game to instigate a floor and roof on plex. Furthermore it is highly likely that it would screw over the rest of the games economy at the same time -- other items will change in value to correspond with any changes to the PLEX system, if the PLEX system itself cannot change.



Please name an item that's value is tied to PLEX.

Originally by: Kuronaga

if PLEX is required for certain microtransactions later on (which is very likely) the demand will shoot way up, but so will the prices for everything else since the price of PLEX would be locked. CCP would get to make more money on each individual plex, the player would get shafted, and successful RMT'rs will make an even bigger killing because the actual value of individual plex has dropped, and it is only valuable purchasing them in bulk.



TBH I really don't understand your logic here.

An NPC order is moveable, you could even set it to an algorithm like they do with insurance. The point I was making was that if PLEX isn't undercutting RMT sites then it is fuelling them and there's no point in having it at all.


It's valued is tied to every single item in the game.

It is the closest thing resembling real world currency, after all.

Here's some food for thought, algorithm in place or not (and we know how well they work).

You set the minimum to 350 mil or so, maximum 500 mil. players can only trade within these limits.

So everyone undercuts each other down to 351 mil or stupid close. Casual player says f*** this, im just gonna sell it instantly for 350 i want the money now. Grats, you've just generated 350 million ISK into the economy that did not exist, instantly. This will happen hundreds of times every single day.

Inflation happens in a very big way. For everything.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:57:00 - [1136]
 

Originally by: lost marble
The point I was making was that if PLEX isn't undercutting RMT sites then it is fuelling them and there's no point in having it at all.


There is a point and it's real simple. With PLEX (and secure GTCs) CCP can give players a reason to stay with the game who do not believe it's still worth their money.

<-- one of those

It is a can of worms ofc. And it's not just RMTs who can maintain their accounts with PLEX. I'm quite sure there are plenty of new players that have to learn that those big shiny ships they just bought are worthless without the SP they will have to wait another 3 months for. Given that they just spend the money for a subscription already for that PLEX there is very little reason for them to stay.

You can't really stop it anyways because players can trade GTCs for ISK all the time. With PLEX CCP can at least keep an eye on it. In fact PLEX can help to identify a bot in the first place and it makes it easier to identify the main of a bot alt.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:58:00 - [1137]
 

The discussion over PLEX prices is irrelevant and is simply a distraction from the main point.

Why does CCP condone cheating and what will it take to make their attitude change?

CCP can manipulate the market any way they like to compensate for bots being permabanned. They can manipulate the PLEX prices such that its more attractive than RMT. They have the tools to do this. They choose not to because doing nothing benefits their company financially.

J'Torr Kitano
Caldari
ZiiP Empire
Posted - 2011.02.22 17:08:00 - [1138]
 

Edited by: J''Torr Kitano on 22/02/2011 17:09:55
Originally by: Nina Mercedez


So, without more info, I'd say you are relatively new. About to solo L4s (for isk?). And play very casually. Not a lot of time to grind? Even less time for the actual fun stuff?

Well, maybe you should bot, too. The pros outweigh the cons.


A year and a month old or so, so yes, relatively new - while I've been able to solo lvl 4s (yes, for isk!) for a while it's just not something I'd got round to doing until the last couple of months. And you've highlighted the issue very well with the rest of your post - while I've never considered botting, I have considered selling a PLEX/GTC w/ever to get me some iskies, but never bothered. Luckily I'm in a corp that supports my play style and has a good bunch of guys in it so it's not like I'm sat in 0.0 cursing my poor funds/ lack of ships ;)

P.S.I find your lack of face disturbing.


Neamus
Posted - 2011.02.22 17:10:00 - [1139]
 

Shouldn't the primary focus be on technical measures against botting? Curtailing their ability to read client data, for instance?

Even if someone succeeds in killing RMT, botters will still be popular for supporting in-game activities, such as disposable supercap fleets, reimbursement schemes, etc which is still anti-competitive. I just don't think that economic measures based around a pretend currency will stop it.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.22 17:33:00 - [1140]
 

Originally by: J'Torr Kitano
P.S.I find your lack of face disturbing.


I find the fact that I'll soon be forced to make a new one disturbing. If only I could emulate the real NM. o_O


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