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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 09:44:00 - [1081]
 

Originally by: Umega


Flood CCP with legit petitions first off.


Does not work.

A few of us have been working out whether its actually possible to get botters permabanned. We've come to the conclusion that it is not.

This is based on petitioning (over the course of 2 months) ONE person who never leaves the system he bots in, is online 20+ hours per day, is solely responsible for over 150 rat kills per hour EVERY hour he is online, cloaks up whenever someone who isn't blue enters system and remains cloaked for up to 14 hours (the most anyone could be bothered AFK camping "his system" for).

He has been petitioned 9 times by 9 different characters in 9 different corps. He has been offline for three 24 hour periods during those 2 months which we're assuming may have been bans - the rest of the time he continues to bot 20+ hours a day, every day.

The only thing that is going to make CCP do anything of a substantive nature is the removal of (real) players subs.

As such, even if you don't really intend to quit I suggest that all players who find CCPs attitude unacceptable go to their account settings and hit the CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION button. Tell them why you're doing it. If enough of you do it then CCP will be forced to gamble that you're bluffing about cancelling or do something SERIOUS about bots. Its worth a try.

NB - that doesn't actually cancel your sub until the next time a payment/PLEX is due. It DOES make your objections to CCP condoning cheating quite clear though.....

bustergonads
Posted - 2011.02.22 09:49:00 - [1082]
 

Originally by: Umega


Flood CCP with legit petitions first off.






And then sit there for eternity as CCP do absolutely **** all just like they have for the last five or more years.

Von Hinten
Posted - 2011.02.22 10:06:00 - [1083]
 

screenshot taken from a botter forum in a thread "how fat is your wallet"
sidenote: this forum , just one of many evebots sites, has 4500 members....

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/98/wallett.jpg

Image changed to a URL per the forum rules - Adida

WShatner
Posted - 2011.02.22 10:09:00 - [1084]
 

Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?

Greniard
Posted - 2011.02.22 10:39:00 - [1085]
 

Originally by: Othran

The only thing that is going to make CCP do anything of a substantive nature is the removal of (real) players subs.

As such, even if you don't really intend to quit I suggest that all players who find CCPs attitude unacceptable go to their account settings and hit the CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION button. Tell them why you're doing it. If enough of you do it then CCP will be forced to gamble that you're bluffing about cancelling or do something SERIOUS about bots. Its worth a try.


Just did this. Not sure if I'm bluffing or not tho... Neutral

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.22 10:50:00 - [1086]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 22/02/2011 10:51:17
Maybe CCP developed and sells that bot itself?
Or they receive roalities?

It seems kinda likely.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:02:00 - [1087]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Kuronaga
Edited by: Kuronaga on 22/02/2011 00:54:15
No one anymore, it seems.



Not trying to be a **** but given the only example I put forth was Blizzard and you said "not anymore" I have to ask "When DID Blizzard value art over money?"

Maybe their first ever game or something but even then, Im betting you there was a price tag attached to it


But that did not stop blizzard from actually taking both in game and legal action against the botters.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:04:00 - [1088]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 22/02/2011 11:04:21
Originally by: Pod Amarr
But that did not stop blizzard from actually taking both in game and legal action against the botters.


Yeah. There's no PLEX in WoW, tho.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:05:00 - [1089]
 

Looking at the screenshots it is really sad. 17 trilion isk

Hello CCP what you think that isk is used for other then the RMT.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:11:00 - [1090]
 

Edited by: Othran on 22/02/2011 11:13:17
Originally by: Greniard
Originally by: Othran

The only thing that is going to make CCP do anything of a substantive nature is the removal of (real) players subs.

As such, even if you don't really intend to quit I suggest that all players who find CCPs attitude unacceptable go to their account settings and hit the CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION button. Tell them why you're doing it. If enough of you do it then CCP will be forced to gamble that you're bluffing about cancelling or do something SERIOUS about bots. Its worth a try.


Just did this. Not sure if I'm bluffing or not tho... Neutral


I honestly hope they do something substantive to make me change my mind.

However the bottom line is that I'm not paying any more real money to a games company which fails to enforce its own rules. The more people cheating the more CCP benefits in financial terms.

CCP condones cheating. That's the truth of the matter.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:17:00 - [1091]
 

Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:24:00 - [1092]
 

Originally by: Othran
There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.


I already reported this whole mess to various news sites, I recommend everyone to hand out a few news tips aswell to well known gaming sites and magazines.

Ming Call
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:26:00 - [1093]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Othran
There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.


I already reported this whole mess to various news sites, I recommend everyone to hand out a few news tips aswell to well known gaming sites and magazines.


This is an excellent idea.

Neamus
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:05:00 - [1094]
 

I just read this article on EN24 Shocked

It's really hammered home for me the utter futility of playing eve, well, at all really.

It seems that if one wishes to be competitive then the ONLY way to do so right now is to become a botter. Also for those that are shouting for local to be delayed, or removed altogether, apparently that on its own wont help. Bots can still read client data, so they "know" when someone jumps in, regardless... Presumably this also means that bots are already perfectly safe in WH space.

So this guy in the article, over the period of 9 months, has made 55k euro's via RMT, and still has a set of separate accounts for playing on, with 600b, a titan and a MS.

Me? I've been playing on and off since 2003, and I have 1 carrier and about 3b in isk and assets. I was actually quite proud of that until today. lol.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:13:00 - [1095]
 

To battle the spoils of capitalism, inflation and money printing that is done by evil bots the state must introduce socialism.

No more open markets, money can not buy things, trade and exchange is controlled by the state centre.

Soon the capitalist pigs will realize that their money things do not work. Because only RMT free parties can get what they need for their labour and service.

lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:36:00 - [1096]
 

Originally by: Ming Call
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Othran
There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.


I already reported this whole mess to various news sites, I recommend everyone to hand out a few news tips aswell to well known gaming sites and magazines.


This is an excellent idea.


People should hold their horses, the last uproar was about excellence and when CCP Zulu tried to write a blog to calm things down it blew the whole thing wide open. It then took several months for CCP to respond by changing their entire release schedule, putting team BFF on to fixing little things, increasing the number of dev blogs and adding a lot of small fixes to incursion.

Based on that I find all the "warrrrgh CCP have abandoned EVE" talk in this thread to be somewhat childish and ungrateful, it takes time for a corporation to react to their market and as we all know action is the only thing players will be happy with, a dev blog stating that they are working on the problem would not go down well.

If CCP are to tackle bots then hard decisions need to be made, should team BFF be taken off the 'little things' project to reverse engineer bot programs, or should it be team gridlock who are given the task? If GM's are to be tracking bots will new staff need hired or do you simply keep the same number of staff and accept that petitions will take longer?

Don't get me wrong I want to see the bot problem brought under control but don't expect CCP to say anything until after the plan is implemented, otherwise they are inviting vast quantities of forum rage about a lack of action.

The current situation with bots and plex is no doubt one of CCP's own making but they have in the past been very good about listening to players, it's just that players want things done yesterday so often don't see this.

Give them time, as someone else said taking this issue to the press is a pyrrhic victory, we would be hurting the very game we are trying to protect. In CCP land getting something done inside of 6 months is considered fast, lets at least see what they come up with before crying that the sky is falling.

Kara Kugisa
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:39:00 - [1097]
 

Edited by: Kara Kugisa on 22/02/2011 12:44:24
Originally by: Ephemeron
It's interesting to note that botting really took off when CCP introduced PLEX - paying game money for monthly subscription.

Before that, a person with 20 bots would have to spend $300 a month and risk losing real money when there are bans or disruptions in bot operations.

Now ANYONE with enough hardware can run 20 bots with $0 subscription costs. The bots pay for themselves.

It is precisely this mechanic that caused botting to grow geometrically, restrained only by the hardware limits to run multiple accounts. And they have absolutely no risk of losing money when getting banned. Banning doesn't stop them at all.

Every time you sell a PLEX in game, you are sponsoring botting.


Whilst Botting for RL money is annoying how does that affect other players in game ?

Those bots arent then starting wars with their money.

Whilst its annoying the true issue with botting is surely the fact real players do it to pay for ships to play the game and hence get an unfair advantage.

What do I care if some Korean is making money by botting and sitting in an asteroid belt all day ? Might be wrong but affects me in no way at all.

Removing Plex will remove the people selling ISK IRL but wont stop the botters who actually use it in game. And if you stop botting people will still buy plexes.

sarah mcjimmy
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:44:00 - [1098]
 

Originally by: Kara Kugisa
What do I care if some Korean is making money by botting and sitting in an asteroid belt all day ? Might be wrong but affects me in no way at all.



Either directly or indirectly, it affects the whole of eve.

Kara Kugisa
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:46:00 - [1099]
 

Originally by: sarah mcjimmy
Originally by: Kara Kugisa
What do I care if some Korean is making money by botting and sitting in an asteroid belt all day ? Might be wrong but affects me in no way at all.



Either directly or indirectly, it affects the whole of eve.


How ?

If a korean botter makes 1 billion and sells it to a player who can get the isk from plex anyway how does that affect anything ?


Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:46:00 - [1100]
 

Originally by: lost marble

Give them time,


We have.

Some of us have been pointing out the bots to CCP for years.

The problem is that unless you stay where the bot is then how do you know (guess) what CCP did? I never stuck around to find out, I assumed that CCP would deal with it.

I see the same bots around now that I reported years ago in Stain. On one memorable trip I went through 30+ systems in Stain making bookmarks. I saw 3 real people - they tried to gank me Very Happy The rest were bots. They're still there.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:47:00 - [1101]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr
Looking at the screenshots it is really sad. 17 trilion isk

Hello CCP what you think that isk is used for other then the RMT.


If you're referring to the image a few posts above, that's billion.

Also, I wish there was an easy way to say when you didn't resubscribe when you use PLEXes (other than petitioning or something). I think I need a hiatus until something comes of this. I recently lost the will to play Eve due to something they did, and now this fiasco. Great.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:51:00 - [1102]
 

Originally by: lost marble
Originally by: Ming Call
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Othran
There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.


I already reported this whole mess to various news sites, I recommend everyone to hand out a few news tips aswell to well known gaming sites and magazines.


This is an excellent idea.


People should hold their horses, the last uproar was about excellence and when CCP Zulu tried to write a blog to calm things down it blew the whole thing wide open. It then took several months for CCP to respond by changing their entire release schedule, putting team BFF on to fixing little things, increasing the number of dev blogs and adding a lot of small fixes to incursion.

Based on that I find all the "warrrrgh CCP have abandoned EVE" talk in this thread to be somewhat childish and ungrateful, it takes time for a corporation to react to their market and as we all know action is the only thing players will be happy with, a dev blog stating that they are working on the problem would not go down well.

If CCP are to tackle bots then hard decisions need to be made, should team BFF be taken off the 'little things' project to reverse engineer bot programs, or should it be team gridlock who are given the task? If GM's are to be tracking bots will new staff need hired or do you simply keep the same number of staff and accept that petitions will take longer?

Don't get me wrong I want to see the bot problem brought under control but don't expect CCP to say anything until after the plan is implemented, otherwise they are inviting vast quantities of forum rage about a lack of action.

The current situation with bots and plex is no doubt one of CCP's own making but they have in the past been very good about listening to players, it's just that players want things done yesterday so often don't see this.

Give them time, as someone else said taking this issue to the press is a pyrrhic victory, we would be hurting the very game we are trying to protect. In CCP land getting something done inside of 6 months is considered fast, lets at least see what they come up with before crying that the sky is falling.


You're mostly right of course.
..thinking.. we mostly want a reply from CCP, but maybe they're not saying anything yet exactly because they are working on it?
Would make some sense.

I mean, sure, it always took CCP a few days or a week to respond with a satisfactory reply, but the botting issue isn't exactly new.
And all their past endevours to control this problem have, as far as we can tell, not done anything and the players have to draw the line somewhere.

Neamus
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:53:00 - [1103]
 

Yes they are actually, and evidentially most of the big alliances are in on it. The supercap fleets that alliances keep throwing at each other are essentially bot funded.

So not only are there bots in eve that make their operators more RL money than most get paid annually, for what ever they do (unless you're lucky enough to have a 100k+ RL job).. But there are also bots running around right now that are funding alliances in-game activities, inclusive of war.

I don't see how an alliance in EvE can be competitive without botting, or at least turning a blind eye to it.

Ming Call
Posted - 2011.02.22 12:59:00 - [1104]
 

Originally by: lost marble


People should hold their horses, the last uproar was about excellence and when CCP Zulu tried to write a blog to calm things down it blew the whole thing wide open. It then took several months for CCP to respond by changing their entire release schedule, putting team BFF on to fixing little things, increasing the number of dev blogs and adding a lot of small fixes to incursion.

Based on that I find all the "warrrrgh CCP have abandoned EVE" talk in this thread to be somewhat childish and ungrateful, it takes time for a corporation to react to their market and as we all know action is the only thing players will be happy with, a dev blog stating that they are working on the problem would not go down well.

If CCP are to tackle bots then hard decisions need to be made, should team BFF be taken off the 'little things' project to reverse engineer bot programs, or should it be team gridlock who are given the task? If GM's are to be tracking bots will new staff need hired or do you simply keep the same number of staff and accept that petitions will take longer?

Don't get me wrong I want to see the bot problem brought under control but don't expect CCP to say anything until after the plan is implemented, otherwise they are inviting vast quantities of forum rage about a lack of action.

The current situation with bots and plex is no doubt one of CCP's own making but they have in the past been very good about listening to players, it's just that players want things done yesterday so often don't see this.

Give them time, as someone else said taking this issue to the press is a pyrrhic victory, we would be hurting the very game we are trying to protect. In CCP land getting something done inside of 6 months is considered fast, lets at least see what they come up with before crying that the sky is falling.



I wasn't aware that botting was a brand new problem of the the last few months. Silly me. I thought it had been going on for years and years, without any significant measurable impact from CCP to put it right. I guess we are being unreasonable to assume that CCP would have considered a solution after such a short period of time. Rolling Eyes

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.22 13:00:00 - [1105]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 22/02/2011 13:00:28
Originally by: Neamus
Yes they are actually, and evidentially most of the big alliances are in on it. The supercap fleets that alliances keep throwing at each other are essentially bot funded.

So not only are there bots in eve that make their operators more RL money than most get paid annually, for what ever they do (unless you're lucky enough to have a 100k+ RL job).. But there are also bots running around right now that are funding alliances in-game activities, inclusive of war.

I don't see how an alliance in EvE can be competitive without botting, or at least turning a blind eye to it.


Yeah, in fact I think that is something CCP keeps overlooking constantly:
Peer pressure and competition

If they field a blob, you field a blob, if they bot, you have to bot, etc.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.22 13:07:00 - [1106]
 

Wow. Some of the comments on this thread seem to suggest this is nothing more than a witch hunt against players that enjoy mining and missioning.

By the definitions put forth here I am a bot Rolling Eyes.

Feel free to report me.


Greniard
Posted - 2011.02.22 13:20:00 - [1107]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: WShatner
Edited by: WShatner on 22/02/2011 10:12:33
An interesting wee rumour I heard.considering that the EN24 is doing more than any other organisation to try to stamp out botting, apparently CCP are refusing to do an interview with them about the problem, because they're furious about EN24's campaign.... I don't get why CCP aren't supporting this initiative?

Can any of the Eve News guys confirm / deny?



There's a thread going on over at the site which must not be mentioned which suggests that CCP have less than a month before EN24 blows the whole sorry mess wide open. I hope they do it as CCP have a history of doing nothing about cheating until its in the mainstream media and some of them may pick up on the story.

If EN24 do what it seems they are planning, it's going to be epic. <3

lost marble
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.22 13:47:00 - [1108]
 

Originally by: Ming Call
Originally by: lost marble
*snip*



I wasn't aware that botting was a brand new problem of the the last few months. Silly me. I thought it had been going on for years and years, without any significant measurable impact from CCP to put it right. I guess we are being unreasonable to assume that CCP would have considered a solution after such a short period of time. Rolling Eyes


It's far from a new problem but the current reaction is new, botting is rampant in a lot of games so most players grudgingly accept that it happens. Horus, riverini and the EN24 team have between them changed all that, the numbers are now plain for everyone to see.

As I said about players always wanting things done yesterday the warning signs were there but then again the signs were there for every issue CCP ever has to deal with, be it hybrid balance, excellence or botting.

We the players demanded that CCP put their resources in to fixing little things which they then did, now people are moaning that no resources are being spent on combating botting and that CCP don't listen.

My point was that if CCP are to respond to player concearns then we have to accept that the world is not perfect, resources are finite and CCP take time to react.

Ohmunny
Posted - 2011.02.22 13:57:00 - [1109]
 

Edited by: Ohmunny on 22/02/2011 13:58:53
Originally by: Von Hinten
screenshot taken from a botter forum in a thread "how fat is your wallet"
sidenote: this forum , just one of many evebots sites, has 4500 members....

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/98/wallett.jpg

Image changed to a URL per the forum rules - Adida


No offense here. But how did you come upon this bot forum? Unless you were looking to get a bot yourself? You say you hate bots, but did you know that you just advertised a bot publicly in a CCP EVE online forum? I'm not a botter and I wouldnt know where or care to search for one. Thanks to you, now, anyone who interested in botting will know exactly what bot to use and what to search for.

Anyway, lets be honest here people. Everyone here complains about bottings and voice their hate for botters. But given a chance, im sure some of these people will use them bots in a heart beat.

I dont care about bots. I dont feel affected by them. I just carebear and enjoy my game. If those players choose to be botters, so be it. I could care less. Iff CCP deals with them, fine. If not, fine. I rather CCP worry about fixing the game than catering to all these whine posts.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.02.22 14:13:00 - [1110]
 

Ohmunny, if they do nothing, it deteriorates into everyone botting to stand a chance in the isk-dependent 0.0 areas.

And people in high sec will start doing it whilst they are at work. So they don't need to grind.

If it's not stopped, the game will spiral into oblivion.


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