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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.21 10:56:00 - [1021]
 

I think it's clever how CCP has banned all talks of botting to a single, hilariously ugly looking thread.

I must admit is a brilliant stunt from their end, I mean who will take anti-bot talk seriously when this is the only thread its represented in?

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.02.21 11:00:00 - [1022]
 

Also, who would want to read 35 pages of trolling, whining, and ******ation? This person will be our botting free messiah, and he will lead us to the promised region of space to live in a utopia... erh uh, never mind.

Iceni
Posted - 2011.02.21 11:28:00 - [1023]
 

I gave up reading this thread after the first page reduced me to despair. However as all other botting threads seem to be locked before they get started, I will dutifully sign on here and add my voice to the BAN THE BOTS cause.

Titans and supercarriers should be a 'wow' in the game, not an everyday fleet necessity.

Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.21 11:58:00 - [1024]
 

Quote:
The problem I have with 'Botting is fine/understandable as long as PvE in EVE is so boring/****' argument is that it just puts off the solution (get better PvE in EVE) until later.

Sorry, but I'm not going to argue the 'immorality' of botting just as much as I'm not going to argue the 'understandable' aspect of botting. I don't care about your wounded sense of morality, nor do I care for your spurious justifications.

In the end the only thing that counts is this: botting is killing EVE.

It really is as simple as that. If you have to bot to, basically, participate, the game is broken. Fine. We know that. We've known that for a long long time. But right now, the, and lets be honest here, vast amount of botting, not just in the drone regions but everywhere, is killing the game.

Over the last year or so, perhaps even longer, botting has become endemic. This isn't a matter of discussion whether it is 5% or 15% of the PCU botting, as each bot causes massive damage to the game, it's player driven economy, not least to EVE brand value (We're now getting messages away from EVE-O or SHC like this: "EVE? Ohh, that game is botted to hell and back! I won't play against bots!").

And I don't want to wait until CCP finally gets around to reiterating on PvE, which we all know won't be until several expansions from now. I want CCP to do something NOW. They'll never be able to remove botting entirely, I'm not delusional about that, but right now CCP isn't doing nearly enough about botting, in fact, I don't see any signs that CCP is doing anything at all (one day ban? That's plain silly!).

I'll take any damage banning as many bots as possible will do to the EVE economy. Prices of minerals and T2 go sky high? Fine, that then is where they should be, as bot minerals and ice shouldn't have been in the game entirely. Toppling large alliances because they'll lose their bot income? Fine, very good in fact, they shouldn't have that Isk anyway. Mass permanent bans for bots and all accounts on that IP? Fine, I relish the thought. Mass permanent bans for everyone condoning botting or supporting it? Fine, I relish the thought. Is much as 1/3 of the PCU getting banned over botting or botting related things? Fine, I don't want those bots in my game anyway.

I don't mind any of that, I don't frankly care about protestations to the opposite of the possible effect that may or may not have on EVE. Because, in the end, botting, and the proliferation of botting is already killing EVE. I don't give a rat's arse about possible effects down the road if already the game is ****ed.

The only thing I see confirmed is that after years of this ****, Dr Eggnog still doesn't seem to have a clue about what is really going on in the EVE economy. But I'll gladly trade-in what little satisfaction that confirmation gives me if CCP starts permanently banning ****loads of bots and botting accounts, who are, let's face it, trivially easy to find, RIGHT NOW, and keep on doing so forever more.

It is their job, you know! Providing a level playing field in their game, as much devoid of cheaters as possible, to the customers paying them for their service! Why do CCP's customers consistently have to tell CCP to do their ****ing job already? What is it with these people?



A well thought out post from Bartholomeus Crane.

Elrca
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:01:00 - [1025]
 

There will always be bots in an MMO, they hare here to make money. They will always be here as there are always people willing to spend RL money for Virtual money. Most gamers just want to have fun without the ned to "work" in a game to be albe to do stuff. It happens everywhere. And since the game producers get the influx of money for those "bot accounts"they will do nothing to stop it, they get their cash. They only take action with the "people" demand it. But then the bots grow so much that the action is futile..


..lernt to live with it!

bustergonads
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:03:00 - [1026]
 

Given that CCP is only temp banning people for three days when they get caught botting it's pretty obvious they don't give a flying **** about this practice. Yet again I shouldn't really be surprised I suppose, as some of the bots we used to kill in Jita ice belts in 05/06 were in game at least three years later that I know of despite being petitioned many times.

Neamus
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:04:00 - [1027]
 

The botting situation seems to have gotten way out of hand. Running around null sec trying to find a backwater system to do some ratting in is very difficult, they're all occupied with bots. The typical pattern is that I log in when I get back from work, only to find that my local bot has nomed the entire system and is now in idle mode waiting for the next sanctum to spawn. Occasionally the bot's Russian operator comes back to his keyboard to laugh at me, before going afk again for the rest of the week.

I could try looking for a new system to rat in, but honestly so far its been the same everywhere I've looked. Its anti-social and anti-competitive, both of which are big no-no's for an MMO.

A major annoyance for me is that petitioning has no discernible effect. No bans, no useful feedback, just nothing... Oh, except for over zealous moderation. Yay.

I've recently come back to the game after about a year off, and initially I thought it was just bad in my local area. But now after catching up on the forums I'm starting to wish I hadn't come back at all. Titans used to be a rarity, have a real "WOW" factor, but now I'm reading about fleets of them? That if lost get replaced after just a few days? At first I thought this was just exaggeration by the usual forum trolls, but now I'm starting to wonder...

Anyway the point is that they're strangling peoples enjoyment of the game, and something quickly needs to be done to stop them.

Dani Nardieu
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:12:00 - [1028]
 

Edited by: Dani Nardieu on 21/02/2011 12:16:10
Highsec has always been chock full of macro miners ever since i've started EvE 5 years ago. There is no rise in that at all and it's not "killing the game". In fact what has been added on the mining front since then has given real industrial players more options with exploration, WH etc.. giving some place to go besides the strip mined belts.

There's been a dramatic rise in ratting bots though and bounties create ISK out of thin air at a frightning rate which is a lot more damaging to the economy then minerals changing hands at low prices.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:19:00 - [1029]
 

Hey Everybody.

I've been posting here and there in the various posts about the bot problem in Eve over the past month and am happy to (finally) see a thread listed by the CSM.

As others have already pointed out, there is a bot problem in Eve that CCP has routinely ignored and blown smoke up our butts about for years. I won't reiterate all of my thoughts on the topic as I've either already expressed them elsewhere in posts or it's not really relevant to this discussion, but on the whole each bot represents another paying customer to CCP. In fact, I firmly believe that if RMT wasn't happening, CCP would care even less about bots than they already (appear to) do. From a purely business standpoint - only RMT would give pause, and RMT is the only thing CCP is really concerned about ending.

As this stance doesn't jive well with the player base - since our resources are being sucked dry by automated programs that run 23.5/7 and everywhere we look we see bots, bots and more bots - only a handful of which are likely to be involved in any serious RMT rings - I had previously suggested that it would be left up to the players of Eve to fight this battle themselves. Truly, if we're tired of bots everywhere we look then we need to begin exposing those characters, corporations and alliances - exposing their locations, bot types and activities - and slamming CCP with petition after petition after petition until they do something about it.

I've filed lots of bot petitions with Eve, and months later the bots are still botting happily. CCP has repeatedly told me they are building evidence against these characters and will take action when they have enough evidence. Frankly, I consider this a load of BS, but it's their company, it's their game so ultimately it's their decision, right? The choice we have as players is one of the following:

1. Stop playing Eve (yeah, right, that's going to happen... NOT!)
2. Start using bots to level the playing field.
3. Start resolving the problem ourselves.

I choose option number 3. As such, I am in the final stages of developing a web application specifically designed to assist the players of Eve in locating, reporting, hunting and killing and filing bot report petitions about these bots. The site is about 90% there and all the important features are already operational:

http://www.reportbots.com/ <- home page - gives more details on what the site is meant to be
http://www.reportbots.com/university/ <- an informational page that aims to help players understand how to spot bots
http://www.reportbots.com/report/ <- Our bot reporting tool which allows you to file bot reports with our system and get a copy & paste text to file a bot petition with CCP.
http://www.reportbots.com/evidence/ <- Our evidence area (still under development) shows characters reported within a specific time frame and number of reports (24 hours and 1 or more reports, or more than one report in 7, 14 or 30 days) and 'botspots' where bots are being reported. It will also show corporation and alliance reports in the next week.

The remainder of our development is mostly bells and whistles and finishing up the user interface (our designer is busy working on our logo/navigation now). Our aim is to be fully operational with all the bells and whistles and pretty user interface by the end of the month, but the report and evidence systems are operational now and the core system has been through alpha and beta testing phases and is solid. Even some folks from CCP gave it a few whacks and I've been busily filing petitions informing the GMs that the system is forthcoming and what they can expect to see from our site.

So, instead of simply complaining about the problem, I suggest we take action. Hence why I wrote reportbots.com. Comments/Suggestions welcomed

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:26:00 - [1030]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
The choice we have as players is one of the following:

1. Stop playing Eve (yeah, right, that's going to happen... NOT!)
2. Start using bots to level the playing field.
3. Start resolving the problem ourselves.

4. put pressure on CCP to take action against bots or face massive negative media fallout.

riverini is currently contemplating the "Pros and Cons of Putting a Botting Guide in EN24.com" on kugu - idea is to set CCP a 30 day ultimatum "to release a blog where they explain what they have been doing to drive the botting issue down" and publish extensive botting guides on EN24 if the ultimatum is not met (to "level the field" and put further pressure on CCP).

Jelek Coro
Erase Rewind
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:28:00 - [1031]
 

CCP are not serious about stopping bots.

If they were - then certain regions would be emptied overnight.

HM-UVD in Stain almost always tops the list for botters. Nothing done.

Pick almost any drone region system with high NPC kills - botters. Nothing done.


CCP will destroy their own game if they continue to sit on their backsides doing SFA. Failure to act will just mean more people will use them.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:31:00 - [1032]
 

Edited by: Kuronaga on 21/02/2011 12:34:58
It doesn't matter how much evidence you collect.

They arn't going to ban the bots, I've tried already and even if you kill the bots, they are ravens.

It's not even a drop in the bucket for them to replace.

IMO the only way to really get CCP's attention is to either

A. Convince an outlet to make it a serious news story on a website that generally promotes positive reviews of eve (ie tentonhammer)

B. Mass protest and crash Jita every single day until they do something -- they love dealing with that.

C. Mass protest and boycott. Dead serious. I mean it sucks, but honest players still make up more of a population then botters do. They can't afford to lose em.


Edit: yes you are right about HM-UVD.

The russian botting scumsuckers have been living here for years and I've been living next door to them. Some of them actually mission run honestly, but they are still have plenty of botter alts all up and down that constellation. One guy named DeathKill actually runs missions with like five alts in tengus at the same time, while he has three more alts just botting the belts down the pipe.

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:37:00 - [1033]
 

so i see this thread on front page. see now it's 35 pages, i say "wow" and then go check on eve-search about new CCP answers here ince last time.
huh ? nothing ?
okay no answer since 2 months, i see...

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:44:00 - [1034]
 

Originally by: Neamus
I've recently come back to the game after about a year off, and initially I thought it was just bad in my local area.


CCP kindly changed sov mechanics from the logistic burden to move all the fuel to a ISK burden to pay for the bills. The idea was to make all those afk alliances go and farm for the privilege to hold space. Or to rent out individual systems (hence the updates) to smallish (or ****ty) corps that didn't have much options to go to 0.0 with the moon goo mechanics.

Sadly CCP forgot that this can not work if they don't go after bots as hard as they can. They didn't and as a result those afk alliances are still afk while their bots make the ISK to maintain space. And while they are on it anyways, they can make the ISK to pay for all those super caps that are needed to keep the space to bot in. On top of that you don't even have to run those bots yourself, you can out source that job to some RMTs. Anybody gets a share, isn't that nice?

A nicely upgraded system with a few bots in it is worth 3 to 5 times as much as r64 moons used to. It's even better then the moon goo exploit because the CEO can look the other way and still see his corps wallet go up quite nicely.

Now CCP is in the situation that they can't go and kick all those bots and remove the ISK that was cheated into corp wallets because they have to expect that halve of all sov is lost and loads of ppl with multiple accounts (not counting bots) will quit the game because they can't maintain their play style.

CCP, as always, didn't act in time and now they have no idea how to deal with that cluster*beep* they created. It's not like there where no warning voices, but if you don't read your very own forum anymore and expect to get problems spoon fed by some elected officials once every 3 months you may learn about problems a little late.

But don't worry. They will optimise their customer communication (have the elected officials elect an official maybe?) and will not step forward to admit they *beep*ed up. Because that might actually lead to somebody comming up with an idea how to solve that problem.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:49:00 - [1035]
 

Originally by: sarah mcjimmy
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
According to the EN24 report it's not the drone renters who are the botters. It's the RENTOR alliances (XDeath, Solar, RA, etc).


What I mean is to extend the punishment at present (engage in RMT with dirty ISK and face negative balances) and taking it to a higher level. Whether it be the corporation or alliance directly.


I completely agree.

(such as noting the disparity in the cost of buying isk, go look it up) but NOT ONE FREAKING DEV will respond to anything in this thread.

I'm beginning to believe the only way we'll get CCP's ass on this problem is to unsubscribe in mass numbers.

Removed discussion regarding forum moderation. If you have an issue on how something was handled please submit a petition. - Adida

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:51:00 - [1036]
 

CCP isn't very upset about people having 10 alt accounts to bot.

So this is up to the players.
I suggest you get to know your enemy and wipe him out?
There's lots of info around lately.

Removed instructions on how to find this information. - Adida

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:57:00 - [1037]
 

Edited by: Illwill Bill on 21/02/2011 13:57:11
Originally by: Spacebat

[Crucifier, Unprobable]
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I

Incremental Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Incremental Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
1MN Afterburner I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]



Let's AFK them to death.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:14:00 - [1038]
 

Removed a quote that no longer exists - Adida

I like this part the most:

Quote:

Mercs: If you're botting, chances are you've got ISK. Merc corps can be hired to assassinate, or even grief specific players. Also, you can hire mercs to simply war dec the corp of the people giving you grief. Mercs can be found advertising themselves in the Crime & Punishment section of the official forums.


Esp. if you take the justification part into account:

Quote:
Check out blueprints for ships sometime, see how many minerals are needed to build things like BS's and caps. We're part of the system that keeps those prices reasonable.


Brilliant!

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:29:00 - [1039]
 

Bit of a problem is that all player action will not be perfectly successful.
In fact, any player action might be one sided, giving temporary advantages to those whose bots yet operate.

I wonder what CCPs resident economist has to say to all this. If he yet lives.

Only CCP can truly put the nail into their coffins.

Also, the argument of eliminating botting screwing up the economy is utterly misguided.
Yes, prices will rise, but they will rise on both ends.
The real players income might increase, just as costs increase.

Of course the age of spamming supercapitals alà 'lol I didn't want it anyways' might end...
and the game might make sense again.

But I'm just some generic and not very knowledgeable alt.

Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:44:00 - [1040]
 

I remember when isk farmers in one of the 0.0 region I lived in were actually people, and if you attacked one, couple more ravens would come to rescue from near by systems.

Back at those times, supercaps were extremely rare, losing a carrier or a dread was a big deal. I don't know at what point in time those same isk farmers started using bots, but there was a diffidently time in EVE when caps were being produced at unrealistic pace.

There could be many reasons, but I wonder to what percentage of those outrageous # of supercaps produced were funded by botting?
I'm only guessing "a lot". Also, it seems that at battle reports regular caps are not counted, only super caps which seems to be replaced pretty fast. Well, if I lose a cap and any other normal player they will have to sweat and work like a horse to replace it.

someone who knows lets put a guess

Percentage of capitals produced by the following:

1. Moon income
2. Rent income
3. Players hard work
4. Bots

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:55:00 - [1041]
 

Originally by: Iceni
I gave up reading this thread after the first page reduced me to despair. However as all other botting threads seem to be locked before they get started, I will dutifully sign on here and add my voice to the BAN THE BOTS cause.

Titans and supercarriers should be a 'wow' in the game, not an everyday fleet necessity.


And I gave up playing EvE when the unhealthy dedication required to compete made logging in feel like a hangover. There is no way to know how much of it stems from people bot mining and marketing but it's a good assumption, alot. Because I am seasonal at work where I have months that I can dedicate alot of time to EvE and I still fail to make any great progress. Even with my several hundred million SP my wallet dictates my worth in this game and that is a direct result of ISK farming in EvE that force all of us to become ISK farmers or buyers.

I still don't have any solution for CCP though. If I do find one I think will help, I will post it. If they have any desire to solve the problem they might use it. If they don't care, I can't do anything about it and Love EvE or hate it, that's the simple truth of it for me.

fythos
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:24:00 - [1042]
 

Quote:
1) delayed local
2) npc gives aggro timer same as players (if someone will log off while being aggroed by npcs - his ship will warp out to spot and will be there for 15 minutes)
3) standard cloaking device (not cov-ops cloak) must consume capacitor, so BS full of cap-mods will be out of cap in 15 or so minutes and then decloak


Sooo many problems in Eve could be solved by this one little change.

Go on CCP, you know you want too... you know it makes sense.

Hell, even if its just in 0.0 where the big boys play.

You could even link it to SOV and have structures that decrease the local delay for members of the alliance that holds sov.

Alexi Komanov
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:29:00 - [1043]
 

I wish CCP would just tighten their collective belts and remove all the bots. Yes I know it's not that easy, yes I know the bots will be back but at least it would give us a breather. Unfortunately, thats not going to happen, CCP just loves money too much and if they remove all the bots thats at least half of their subscriptions down the drain, leaving us back at pre-trinity levels of subscribers.

EVE is going to be choked out by bots, as playing the game becomes dependent on using a bot. That is when EVE will die, sure there will still be people playing but they will be 80% bots and CCP will still be making money so they just wont give a damn. EVE will be dead for the rest of us, to bad CCP won't care.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:37:00 - [1044]
 

Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa

I wonder what CCPs resident economist has to say to all this. If he yet lives.


QEN-2010/3 page 17/18:

Quote:
bounty payout increased by over 16% compared to Q2

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2011.02.21 16:08:00 - [1045]
 


    A DARK HARSH UNIVERSE?

    I want to bathe in rivers of tears,
    Failscading alliances ring music in my ears.
    Turmoil and war are the engines that drive,
    Macroed systems are no place for a human to survive.

    When neither sov nor the markets are player driven,
    Frustration among capsuleers should be a given.
    CCP you are playing a game of attrition,
    Player vs bot will not bring anyone's dreams to fruition.

    The death of a titan should be accompanied by cries from a thousand null bears,
    Not the shrug of a botter who just doesn't care.
    War should be economic and harsh,
    By comparison bot wars are no more than farce.

    Some say that getting rid of botters will hurt your bottom line,
    I say it is honest players who truly give you dollar and dime.
    That bots drive plex for short term gain is something I know,
    As Icelanders you should understand what happens when short term economics run the show.

Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.21 16:41:00 - [1046]
 

Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 21/02/2011 16:43:04
Originally by: gfldex
QEN-2010/3 page 17/18:

Quote:
bounty payout increased by over 16% compared to Q2



Thank you for remining me of that. Wink

"In only a year the bounty payout increased by 64%, pushing the money supply further up."
That's kinda suspicious.

"Tritanium and Pyerite prices continued to fall in Q3, but Mexallon and Isogen prices rose somewhat, probably due to reduced
supply."
Mining Veldspar much? Maybe it's Chribba's fault? ;)

Not that much in it hinting at botters, tho.
The ship numbers make me think there's no more than 5000 botting accounts... probably less.
Wouldn't make that big an impact on subscription numbers.

The forum of a prominent ratting bot has 4444 registered members.

The bots could still conceivably inject more than 2.500 Billion ISK per day into the economy... looks like a fair share of that would go into RMT.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.21 19:08:00 - [1047]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 19:11:03
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Ai Shun


End of their game:

November 2008: 250,000 subscribers
December 2009: 300,000 subscribers (Over 300,000)
January 2011: 340,000 subscribers




Amazing what you can "prove" with statistics Rolling Eyes

Current subscriber numbers are the same as they were in January 2010. They have DECREASED by around 10-15% since Summer 2010 despite the "power of two" promotion and various other "come back and get 60 days for €19.95" offers*.

As an aside if you take a look around at the influx of "power of two characters" from last promotion you'll notice a HELL OF A LOT of courier and ratting bots - low-sec heimatar (for example) is full of courier bots in bestowers, pretty much all of whom date from the last power of two promotion. CCP knows this as one group of 20+ have been petitioned 7 times now. Still there and botting though...

*Source is mmodata.net who get their figures from CCP.


Its lowsec? KILL THEM
lol

Edit: If youve spent any time in this game, you should know this is pretty much CCP's reaction to any real issue. Censorship.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.21 19:42:00 - [1048]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:11:34
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 19:48:38
Originally by: Consortium Agent


So, instead of simply complaining about the problem, I suggest we take action. Hence why I wrote reportbots.com.


Wouldnt it be ironic as hell if you got banned for interrupting gameplay or something stupid like that?

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

4. put pressure on CCP to take action against bots or face massive negative media fallout.



Funny thing about that, as has already been said, Bots are in EVERY MMO.
Most MMOs however dont have the player run economy (hah) that we do so bots arent an issue, and so noone cares about them. So unless youre already in this game, and know the issue is a problem, then reading about how EVE is bot riddled isnt gonna matter.
On the other hand, also, as previously stated, making the issue more well known will drive people that would be interested in the game away.
"Yes, but that will put pressure on CCP"
Yes, but that will damage EVE in the process. Google the term "Pyrrhic victory"
Better yet; here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pyrrhic victory
Quote:
–noun
a victory or goal achieved at too great a cost.

Originally by: Alexi Komanov
Unfortunately, thats not going to happen, CCP just loves money too much


God forbid they act like a corporation

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:12:00 - [1049]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 21/02/2011 20:15:24
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

4. put pressure on CCP to take action against bots or face massive negative media fallout.



Funny thing about that, as has already been said, Bots are in EVERY MMO.
Most MMOs however dont have the player run economy (hah) that we do so bots arent an issue, and so noone cares about them. So unless youre already in this game, and know the issue is a problem, then reading about how EVE is bot riddled isnt gonna matter.

lol, that's pretty much exactly what I wrote in the kugu thread.

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
On the other hand, also, as previously stated, making the issue more well known will drive people that would be interested in the game away.
"Yes, but that will put pressure on CCP"
Yes, but that will damage EVE in the process. Google the term "Pyrrhic victory"

What makes you assume that I have no general education and have to google that term? (the grammar school I did attend had a focus on classical languages)

The victory wouldn't be in causing damage to CCP, the victory would consist of the prospect of damage to CCP forcing them into action to prevent said damage.

If they fail to do this and it becomes necessary to turn the mere threat of damage into actual damage, then both sides have failed to achieve their respective objectives.

That would be a bad outcome but it has to be accepted as a possible outcome for the threat to be credible. If you aren't ready to ruin the game, there is no incentive for CCP to fix it.



Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:16:00 - [1050]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:21:12
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:19:30
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 20:17:42
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

What makes you assume that I have no general education and have to google that term? (the grammar school I did attend had a focus on classical languages)




It wasnt directed at anyone it was a general statement, calm down

Quote:
That would be a bad outcome but it has to be accepted as a possible outcome for the threat to be credible. If you aren't ready to ruin the game, there is no incentive for CCP to fix it.


Right, see, Im not THAT bothered by the issue that Im willing to leverage a game existing at all vs them wanting to fix it.
They might just give it up as a lost cause (as most ppl here have noted that there might BE no fix) and focus on world of twilight.

edit: looks like its not just botters getting the lock treatment. Theyre killing hulkageddon whines too now lol

and lol at the yellows killing the posts up above


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