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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Stratego
Ad Infernum
Posted - 2010.12.13 19:20:00 - [331]
 

Always fun when i petitioned CCP about the macrohaulers in the system i live at (30+) only to get a reply saying "give us a list of names", always lovely to get asked to do their work for them when they could just sit themselves there for 20minutes and start banning :/

"Education and heightening of awareness constitutes a major requirement in our battle plan. Many of the ISK buyers we process claim ignorance of the rules and we must make sure that information is available and prominent."

Being a ***** with them aint going to work CCP.

Aijle Mijleroff
Posted - 2010.12.14 01:22:00 - [332]
 

I am very upset devblog ССР ' Raging On '. There was an impression, that the boats buying plex's, for ССР it is more important than ordinary players. I think soon on a server of ССР there will be only boats. I am very upset and I can not play properly now EVE. I would not like to pay more a subscription, can, if ССР will take actual measures against boats then I shall continue to pay a subscription.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:35:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Aijle Mijleroff
I am very upset devblog ССР ' Raging On '. There was an impression, that the bots buying plex's, for ССР it is more important than ordinary players. I think soon on a server of ССР there will be only bots. I am very upset and I can not play properly now EVE. I would not like to pay more a subscription, can, if ССР will take actual measures against bots then I shall continue to pay a subscription.

Fix'd (Hint: boat = bot) Rolling Eyes

Zyno 04
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:51:00 - [334]
 

As player, i am forced to compete in a sandbox environment with 23/7 bots for the same resources.
I am undecided if my continued preference for your service denotes idiocy or stupidity on my behalf, but surely, it must be one of them.

Meridian Siri
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:06:00 - [335]
 

Hey,

Did that dev-blog seem like a pile of non-informative drivel that basically did not say **** about the alleged involvement/entrenchment of certain alliances in botting/RMT to anyone else? I thought this was supposed to an update on CCP efforts on this issue. Demanding a do-over on this.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:32:00 - [336]
 

Edited by: Kalle Demos on 14/12/2010 08:38:36
As expected the devblog was nothing more than RMT, wake up CCP, the bot costs the same as buying 1 bill, why would anyone with a brain risk buying ISK when they can get a bot and get unlimited ISK faster and easier.

It is like arresting drug dealers but saying the grow houses are too difficult to spot, sigh.

Now my bitter side has returned, I think I will go rat AND mine for 2 months straight on all my chars, nothing out of the ordinary is it Rolling Eyes

IN ORDER TO KILL A WART YOU NEED TO KILL THE ROOTS!!


Oh and FFS riverini edit your title and change FEED to FED or *****D

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.14 09:27:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Tyrrant
I said it before and I will say it again.

If we want to remove all the botters all we have to do is remove the local in 0.0 and make it delayed mode. This will do a couple things.

It will make scouts actually useful and people wont rely on that damn local count. It will also make every single 0.0 botter die in a fire to stealth bombers + recons. Lastly, it will boost black ops and covert bridges.


They mostly use Drakes, Tengus and Ravens that remain aligned 99% of the time. You appear in local, on D-scan or on-grid and they instantly warp.

There is a fairl eloquent setup they use for safe mining where there will be a system at the end of a "chain" of two jump systems. There will be a scout bot, or several, acting as kind of an intel network players use. You pop into the bottom of the chain, they align, you hit halfway up the pipe, they warp.

It's incredibly frustrating.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.14 11:50:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Tyrrant
I said it before and I will say it again.

If we want to remove all the botters all we have to do is remove the local in 0.0 and make it delayed mode. This will do a couple things.

It will make scouts actually useful and people wont rely on that damn local count. It will also make every single 0.0 botter die in a fire to stealth bombers + recons. Lastly, it will boost black ops and covert bridges.


They mostly use Drakes, Tengus and Ravens that remain aligned 99% of the time. You appear in local, on D-scan or on-grid and they instantly warp.

There is a fairl eloquent setup they use for safe mining where there will be a system at the end of a "chain" of two jump systems. There will be a scout bot, or several, acting as kind of an intel network players use. You pop into the bottom of the chain, they align, you hit halfway up the pipe, they warp.

It's incredibly frustrating.

Stealth bombers. Or afk cloaking after finishing playing eve. Two very good counters. One kills them the other makes them useless.

Iceni
Posted - 2010.12.14 11:52:00 - [339]
 

This thread makes me glad I only play EVE for a bit of pew pew when I need a break from rl...

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.12.14 12:20:00 - [340]
 

You can start by telling your alliance bosses not to buy PLEX and ISKs of Chinese websites.

RMT only works because some morons think they can buy everything. Stop buying it. Get your PLEX and ISK the way you want everyone else to get them - by playing the game - and stop thinking you have got nothing to do with it.

Do you let your junk hang out and then complain about the flies it attracts? No.

Your money makes Russians and Chinese run bots, because they can make a few thousand dollars per month with it. What is a small or average income for western standards is a lot more for them. They will not stop with it, because it feeds their families. All you do is to blame it on people who are trying to make a living in a free world.

The problem is created by people who do not want to make ISK by playing the game, but want to buy it with real money. Stop blaming those who run bots, but start with those who want to win EVE with throwing lots of money at it. They are the ones who crap on EVE.

Superpossee
Posted - 2010.12.14 12:29:00 - [341]
 

This is not just about RMT. RMT is mainly a ccp-problem.
The main problem is the thousands of players with bot-alts funding their gametime, shiny ships, supercaps without putting any effort in it.
Its called cheating and you dont want your opponent to be a cheater because you cannot win then.
Playing against an enemy with endless isk-income is pointless and ruins the fun of the game.
Look at all the SCs and titans being built and sold atm, fun?

Thats what its about. Some good ideas of how to give players the means to deal with botters themselves have been mentioned in this thread.
If ccp keeps ignoring the problem the quality of the game will go down rapidly

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.12.14 12:56:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: Superpossee
This is not just about RMT. RMT is mainly a ccp-problem.
The main problem is the thousands of players with bot-alts funding their gametime, shiny ships, supercaps without putting any effort in it.
Its called cheating and you dont want your opponent to be a cheater because you cannot win then.
Playing against an enemy with endless isk-income is pointless and ruins the fun of the game.
Look at all the SCs and titans being built and sold atm, fun?

Thats what its about. Some good ideas of how to give players the means to deal with botters themselves have been mentioned in this thread.
If ccp keeps ignoring the problem the quality of the game will go down rapidly

True, but these players are a minor problem compared to what is happening.

There are wars going on where the only goal is to go against those suspected of RMT, the Russians. Entire alliances start showing fascist tendencies. It starts with being just fun, but it becomes more and more often nothing less than harassment of russian speaking players on a grand scale. Some put their dislike into their bios and corp descriptions, saying that they are "anti-russian".

Jaqel Broadside
Posted - 2010.12.14 14:09:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: Whitehound

Your money makes Russians and Chinese run bots, because they can make a few thousand dollars per month with it. What is a small or average income for western standards is a lot more for them. They will not stop with it, because it feeds their families. All you do is to blame it on people who are trying to make a living in a free world.
who want to win EVE with throwing lots of money at it. They are the ones who crap on EVE.




This is absolutely and utterly wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself.

The eastern countries are as capable as any others at producing great games like "The Witcher" and there are many, many games out there which being produced by those companies. All of them providing a way of life and the ability to raise a family.

The actions of macros and botters spoil what should be an entertainment game into one riddled with RL issues and an in-game lack of playability.

Eve is not a way of creating income for "God knows who",, how long before real life criminals take advantage of this ? Where exactly do you think they will spend their money ? Trafficing people, drugs, smuggling or buying food for their "families".

Take the ethics you are espousing to a charity site.


Bots make playing Eve pointless,, no one can compete with a bot -> end of game.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.14 15:17:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Originally by: Whitehound

Your money makes Russians and Chinese run bots, because they can make a few thousand dollars per month with it. What is a small or average income for western standards is a lot more for them. They will not stop with it, because it feeds their families. All you do is to blame it on people who are trying to make a living in a free world.
who want to win EVE with throwing lots of money at it. They are the ones who crap on EVE.




This is absolutely and utterly wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself.

The eastern countries are as capable as any others at producing great games like "The Witcher" and there are many, many games out there which being produced by those companies. All of them providing a way of life and the ability to raise a family.

The actions of macros and botters spoil what should be an entertainment game into one riddled with RL issues and an in-game lack of playability.

Eve is not a way of creating income for "God knows who",, how long before real life criminals take advantage of this ? Where exactly do you think they will spend their money ? Trafficing people, drugs, smuggling or buying food for their "families".

Take the ethics you are espousing to a charity site.


Bots make playing Eve pointless,, no one can compete with a bot -> end of game.


Eh? Should be ashamed of what? It's the people that buy it that give the people doing it reason to sell it - without a buyer there'd be no seller. Stop buying isk and they'll not be able to make a living from it. I don't see where the shame comes from, just because people in Russia and China can make a living some other way doesn't mean nobody makes a living the bad way? They make great games, so do lots of countries, but there are lots of people in lots of countries catering to a market that exists in EVE to make their living - selling isk.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.14 15:24:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Stealth bombers. Or afk cloaking after finishing playing eve. Two very good counters. One kills them the other makes them useless.


Regarding stealth bombers, there was a period of time when their local monitoring capability stopped working. The ratting bots still could monitor d-scan and their overview however. The instant you would decloak, they would warp, since they spend all their time aligned out. There may be some technique around it, but I never figured out because within a few days they were back to watching local.

The most effective way of catching them is a combination of anchored bubbles and logoffskis, but then you figure you're spending 30 minutes to 2 hours to kill a single T2 fit Raven or Drake (the Tengus are nullified). That's just a little bit more work I feel like putting into my gametime.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.12.14 15:38:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Take the ethics you are espousing to a charity site.


Bots make playing Eve pointless,, no one can compete with a bot -> end of game.

Let me ask you, what did your attitude give you this far? Nothing.

All the complaining about macros and bots has not changed anything.

CCP then has banned bots in the past because of the CPU load these created, not because it might be morally wrong.

The false moral is not on the side of those who spend a lot of time with the game and develop macros and bots. It is those who have not got a clue about the game and buy the ISKs.

I hope your protest leaves you a little time to take a breath. It takes a while to calm down and to look at the problem without being upset or angry about the botters making lots more ISKs than you do.

Did you know that botters can make 300 billion ISK per month? 300 BILLION ISK.

Now, think of all those people who are buying them. 300 billion ISK per month changing hands from one, single botter to a buyer. Any idea who needs this much ISKs to play EVE? I do not think that it is the noob in his rookie ship who buys ISKs.

Identity Agent
Posted - 2010.12.14 16:09:00 - [347]
 

bot infested systems listed out here

we've pointed them out to you, now do something about them.


Adamantor
Caldari
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
Posted - 2010.12.14 17:44:00 - [348]
 

Edited by: Adamantor on 14/12/2010 17:44:53
CCP needs to come up with a solution and make it clear that their intent is to prevent any bot's. There have been a lot of mention of other MMO's, but EVE is rather unique in it's economic model making botting extremely unbalancing from a competitive perspective.

Just reading about these issues has many of my corp mates frustrated with EVE after having worked thorough legitimate methods for so long, only to realize someone could have ran a few bots and exceeded their financial success in a much shorter period of time.

I understand the reasons why some are tempted to bot, but that undermines the entire game system. It's no different than any other game, many people take the easy road and cheat using a myriad of excuses why it's justified.

You might as well log into Sisi and play where everything costs 1 ISK.

Wartrec
Posted - 2010.12.15 00:11:00 - [349]
 

Just in case any of you macro users misssed this thread.

oldmanst4r
Minmatar
oldmanst4r's Corporation
Posted - 2010.12.15 00:22:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Wartrec
Just in case any of you macro users misssed this thread.


Yes, macro users can look at this thread to confirm their suspicions that CCP doesn't give a flip as to whether they cheat or not. Wouldn't want them to be stressed out not knowing for sure.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.12.15 00:39:00 - [351]
 

Quote:

You can start by telling your alliance bosses not to buy PLEX and ISKs of Chinese websites.

RMT only works because some morons think they can buy everything. Stop buying it. Get your PLEX and ISK the way you want everyone else to get them - by playing the game - and stop thinking you have got nothing to do with it.



Teaching people not to cheat is a very long term objective.

This stance is totally simplicistic, it's the same as standing on a high horse and saying that people should stop committing crimes. O really?
No way, those committing crimes don't give a **BEEP** about you preaching them to be good boys. In RL we get police to convince them, what do we get in EvE?

In EvE what I have met is an endless stream of clueless GM that closely remind those overseas call centers. The players have to explain them the 101 of what happens and escalate the issue to GMs with a clue as soon as the problem requires an above chimpanze level knowledge.

How can anyone expect they'll even bother or know how to properly alert the higher tiers of actual employees up the CCP food chain?

The blog is a testament to this. It seems written by an alien.

WE ARE FUC*ED EVERY DAY BY BOTS in a game that unlike the others:

- is competitive

- relies on an healthy economy

- has no parachute mechanisms for RMT

- is CHOKING FULL of easily botted activities

- has dire consequences in case of loss.



I lose a SC that took me 3 RL years to grind? I am BONED (the corp will help but the hurt IS here).

A botter or - worse - a RMTer loses a SC? Yawn he'll have to log in one of his 20 other ones.

How does this look in the flaunted competitive, pure PvP MMO?

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.15 03:25:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Stealth bombers. Or afk cloaking after finishing playing eve. Two very good counters. One kills them the other makes them useless.


Regarding stealth bombers, there was a period of time when their local monitoring capability stopped working. The ratting bots still could monitor d-scan and their overview however. The instant you would decloak, they would warp, since they spend all their time aligned out. There may be some technique around it, but I never figured out because within a few days they were back to watching local.

The most effective way of catching them is a combination of anchored bubbles and logoffskis, but then you figure you're spending 30 minutes to 2 hours to kill a single T2 fit Raven or Drake (the Tengus are nullified). That's just a little bit more work I feel like putting into my gametime.

I don't see how they could react that fast. A stealth bomber can lock instantly, it doesn't show up on d-scan. I would think due to latency, by the time the client on their end registers the bomber even decloaked they're already scrambled.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:11:00 - [353]
 

Edited by: Target Painter on 15/12/2010 06:12:34
Originally by: Infinity Ziona

I don't see how they could react that fast. A stealth bomber can lock instantly, it doesn't show up on d-scan.


It shows up on overview when decloaking and while you are able to start locking on, getting a lock takes around 2 or 3 seconds for a Drake or Tengu (off the top of my head).

Quote:
I would think due to latency, by the time the client on their end registers the bomber even decloaked they're already scrambled.


Latency cuts both ways. You decloak and for a few seconds clicking, get the message(s) saying, "You cannot target while cloaked." Aligned out warps are instanteous, regardless of what is displayed on screen, so you see yourself get lock, but then it disappears a split-second later (Interference from Botty McMacro's warp..., etc.).

Manually breaking safespots isn't feasible because they all fit cloaks or have armed POSes (in sov 0.0 areas).

Like I said before, incredibly frustrating.

Kewso
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:35:00 - [354]
 

I enjoy my macros, couple years ago after using a Nostromo N52 only way I'll ever play most games now is with macros. Automation is nice, can sit back and remove annoying keystrokes and helps release stress on wrists and such.


Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:57:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Kewso
I enjoy my macros, couple years ago after using a Nostromo N52 only way I'll ever play most games now is with macros. Automation is nice, can sit back and remove annoying keystrokes and helps release stress on wrists and such.




I can understand why you like to do such a thing, it can make the game more enjoyable until the game just ends up being a bunch of botters with a few rich people throwing cash around to rein supreme.

What changes to game mechanics do you think would make it harder for a macro program to automate gameplay (less bots per computer)?

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:24:00 - [356]
 

Originally by: Elzon1
Originally by: Kewso
I enjoy my macros, couple years ago after using a Nostromo N52 only way I'll ever play most games now is with macros. Automation is nice, can sit back and remove annoying keystrokes and helps release stress on wrists and such.




I can understand why you like to do such a thing, it can make the game more enjoyable until the game just ends up being a bunch of botters with a few rich people throwing cash around to rein supreme.

What changes to game mechanics do you think would make it harder for a macro program to automate gameplay (less bots per computer)?

whoosh

I, too, love my G15 - was more useful before weapon grouping but even now macros are a real help while playing EVE.

Aylara
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:49:00 - [357]
 

It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:52:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Elzon1
Originally by: Kewso
I enjoy my macros, couple years ago after using a Nostromo N52 only way I'll ever play most games now is with macros. Automation is nice, can sit back and remove annoying keystrokes and helps release stress on wrists and such.



*snip*

What changes to game mechanics do you think would make it harder for a macro program to automate gameplay (less bots per computer)?

I posted something in a thread on bots in ideas discussion.

Basically you need to remove repetitive static game play, remove easily recognizable names and tags and recognizable commands.

Humans can easily distinguish between an unnamed asteroid of a vaguely different shape and size but a bot has trouble. Humans can learn and adapt to a npc ai that doesn't repeatedly behave in the same manner, a bot cannot learn.

A human can easily learn to probe out an asteroid field while a bot benefits more from static asteroids.

A human warping into a dynamically changing worlds collide mission can easily figure out how to get to the next stage, even if they have to visually find the the gate and navigate to it manually, rather then right click and approach gate.

A bot cannot reason, its as likely to approach a gate that does nothing but send it out of the deadspace area as it is to approach the gate that takes it further in, if the reasoning to work out which gate is even slightly abstract.

Get my drift?

Aylara
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:37:00 - [359]
 

The easiest and cheapest move from CCP would be to let players police the bot-ing.

1. With the change regarding the learning skills, it's going to be easy to train an alt for killing hauling bots in low-sec.
2. Change the AI of the belt NPC's to use the Sleeper AI (tweak it to be easy to do it) and make all ships (or at least the frigates) scramble the ratting ship. Ratting bots will be easier to get caught; this will not stop the macro ratting, but at least will keep it under control.
3. The market bots. Here I have no idea, but these guys I really dislike since I don't want to / have time to waste it on PVE and my income comes from trading.

I bet that you guys have also cheap and easy to do modifications against bot-ing.

Superpossee
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:23:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

You can start by telling your alliance bosses not to buy PLEX and ISKs of Chinese websites.

RMT only works because some morons think they can buy everything. Stop buying it. Get your PLEX and ISK the way you want everyone else to get them - by playing the game - and stop thinking you have got nothing to do with it.



Teaching people not to cheat is a very long term objective.

This stance is totally simplicistic, it's the same as standing on a high horse and saying that people should stop committing crimes. O really?
No way, those committing crimes don't give a **BEEP** about you preaching them to be good boys. In RL we get police to convince them, what do we get in EvE?

In EvE what I have met is an endless stream of clueless GM that closely remind those overseas call centers. The players have to explain them the 101 of what happens and escalate the issue to GMs with a clue as soon as the problem requires an above chimpanze level knowledge.

How can anyone expect they'll even bother or know how to properly alert the higher tiers of actual employees up the CCP food chain?

The blog is a testament to this. It seems written by an alien.

WE ARE FUC*ED EVERY DAY BY BOTS in a game that unlike the others:

- is competitive

- relies on an healthy economy

- has no parachute mechanisms for RMT

- is CHOKING FULL of easily botted activities

- has dire consequences in case of loss.



I lose a SC that took me 3 RL years to grind? I am BONED (the corp will help but the hurt IS here).

A botter or - worse - a RMTer loses a SC? Yawn he'll have to log in one of his 20 other ones.

How does this look in the flaunted competitive, pure PvP MMO?


This SO MUCH


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