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Owledge
Posted - 2010.12.05 18:11:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 19:44:43
Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 19:44:00
Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 19:43:47
Recently I've read about stretegic bookmarking and its complicated methods, like nearly emptying your capacitor in order to stop at a point in-between two destinations.
Does this have to be that complicated? Why isn't is simply possible to manually stop your warp? I mean, if we're not supposed to be doing that, then the methods for making bookmarks 'in empty space' would have to be considered a mild form of exploit.
So what's the idea behind not allowing me to stop warp travel where I like to?

By the way, another unrealistic aspect that's connected to strategic bookmarking methods is the fact that you can empty your cap by repeatedly initiating warp and then immediately cancelling it. Where does the cap charge for a warp go when the warp drive isn't activated? OK, I could imagine that some kind of warp field is being created and collapses when I interrupt, but wouldn't it be better for fairness, realism and usability if the cap charge would only be used AFTER alignment with the target, when the warp transfer actually starts?
To avoid trouble with planning, I recommend another feature:
The information about warp travel distance is displayed the moment the alignment for warp begins, which is nice. It would be even better if there was an information like:
"Cap needed: 163/147.", in this example signaling that the warp will not reach the target. (or switching both numbers for better readability)

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.05 18:13:00 - [2]
 

Half of these ideas are decent, but holy spam, batman. Make a single proposal which encapsulates all your ideas and put it in the assembly hall, or perhaps features and ideas. This place is mainly meant for discussing the CSM.

Owledge
Posted - 2010.12.05 18:33:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 18:35:19
Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 18:34:39
OK, I wasn't sure where they might belong, because some of them I have to check whether they make sense or whether I (being a newbie) missed something. A recommendation should be valid before it is officially made, no?
Also I considered posting all of them in one thread, but that could make things very confusing.
It's only so many threads because I've taken notes all the time and am now posting all of them at the same time.

I guess it's alright to move those of my threads to another subforum that (or when they) qualify for official recommendation.

Supplement:
Actually I missed the Features and Ideas Discussion subforum. You're right, they might fit best there. Moderators, please move threads where applicable.

Corina Jarr
Posted - 2010.12.05 20:00:00 - [4]
 

The thing is, per EVE universe, the warp drive cannot just stop. First it locks onto a target (ie any location in space that has been recorded into the ships computer). Then it activates, spools up to speed, and jumps. It goes from point A to B.

In a way, the warp drive is like a throwing arm. The more it throws, the farther you go. Trying to stop warp at any given point is like putting up a wall in front of a glider (ie BAD).

As for cap usage, the warp activates, and the cap is used before the actual throw. All that energy goes to bending the laws of relativity.Wink

However, your cap usage limiter (to limit warp distance) may be worth considering.

Owledge
Posted - 2010.12.05 23:32:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Owledge on 05/12/2010 23:32:31
Yes, it would also be nice to be able to just align the ship in one direction and tell it to warp a certain distance.

Corina Jarr
Posted - 2010.12.06 01:52:00 - [6]
 

Well that in itself is outside the ability of the IU warp drive. It must have coordinates to lock onto to align itself and jump.

Owledge
Posted - 2010.12.06 02:43:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Owledge on 06/12/2010 02:43:21
You can always take the current alignment. You can create a bookmark everywhere and jump to it, so the game can always make any point into a destination. Double-clicking in space is basically the same thing.

Corina Jarr
Posted - 2010.12.07 01:05:00 - [8]
 

Your missing the point. The warp drive must have coordinates locked on to activate. When you create a bookmark, the coordinates for that BM are stored into the ships computer.

The warp drive cannot activate without locking on to a set of coordinates.

When you double click, you are manually piloting using the sublight engines, which has zero to do with the warp drive.

However, I think you could make up a bookmark (ie edit the coods in it to something random) and then have a safe spot in the middle of nowhere. But I haven't tried this yet.

KaiserSoze434
Posted - 2010.12.07 01:38:00 - [9]
 

If I remember correctly from the science articles (its been a while)the warp core creates a sort of "bubble" around you that allows propulsion to operate without the normal physical restrictions on acceleration and mass. No inertia, no drag on the ship, and no increasing difficulty to speed up the closer you get to light speed. Again its been a while but I think its described in terms of a super vacuum like bubble. You're thinking of it like you have your hand on some kind of accelerator and you should be able to just ease off the gas and stop. Think of it like this. Your warp core creates a bubble that moves with you of super duper slippery space and it has to calculate just the right propulsion so that you shoot across the solar system in the direction you want while the warp core gradually deconstructs the bubble so that normal spatial forces act to naturally slow you. But it has to have very specific reading on the start and end point to make the calculations correctly. Note that the warp disruptor and scram modules operate by jamming the targets navigation computer, not propulsion systems.

Owledge
Posted - 2010.12.07 16:57:00 - [10]
 

No, you're missing the point. A bookmark in empty space is in no way a reliable target for the navigation computer to lock onto, the way you explain it. But it has very detailed coordinates ... in empty space if you place it there. And apparently the very detailed coordinates don't need reference points to be created, i.e. you don't have to be at that point in order to be able to get the precise coordinates, because you can go to a place you've never been before and just right click on a tiny jetcan far away and warp to it. Also, you can tell the computer to warp to that point, but at a pre-defined distance.
Now why shouldn't it be possible to tell the computer to warp to a point 2 AU away from where my own ship currently is, hm?
It's extremely trivial.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.01.07 21:46:00 - [11]
 

There also has to be a way to get someone land into the bubble.

MAYBE!

Avoiding everything sounds pretty good plan at start but when you try to catch something it suddenly doesn't feel alright.

Spirulina Laxissima
Minmatar
TotalControl Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.08 18:30:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Corina Jarr
Well that in itself is outside the ability of the IU warp drive. It must have coordinates to lock onto to align itself and jump.


So how about we create a bookmark, then edit the coordinates.

Or even better: A 'Warp to Coordinates' feature, where we just type in random numbers.

Max Kolonko
Caldari
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.08 21:13:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Max Kolonko on 08/01/2011 21:14:14
Ok ,"science" aside, lets talk real gameplay, if you want true physics to run the game.. well, its not that game :P

first of all this idea of "strategic bookmarking" is totally missed, since you can bookmark in mid warp.

second ability to: warp to few AU from target, warp X km/au at the aligned direction and so on - disturbs delicate balance of today mechanic of of flying, bookmarking and finding other players and escaping pursue.

- bookmarking: CCP clearly stated that they don't want Bookamrks far away in space, they even moved all bookmarks that where more than 20 AU from last warpable objects to exactly 20AU. If you can warp in any direction, even a short distance you can just keep pushing the distance further and further from system.
- today players have to make safe spots to be more safe from others, its simply don't require any sophisticated knowledge to start with. Other players can look for them either by scanning probes or directional scanner. if a player didn't make a bm's in system before he got attacked he is put in disadvantage, since all he can do to escape is warp to other warpable object that can already be camped. It fits nicely into eve reality and requires players to prepare before ratting in unsafe system.
- and escaping itself, now to be able to warp away quick you have to aling to something, or in general direction of something to begin with. If you are not aligned to some escape object like station, gate, BM or something than you pretty much always flying, most of the time at full speed, maybe orbiting at full speed or approaching enemy (player or rat). When you decide its time to flee you have to SPEND TIME ALIGNING to escape. With "warp in aligned direction" it would pretty much be a big red button with "PRESS TO ESCAPE" label on it.

44000
Posted - 2011.01.16 15:23:00 - [14]
 

game play mechanics, as stated, prevent what you are proposing because, it will be too easy. It used to be back in the day that you could just type in co-ordinates for where you wanted to go, and warp there, but this was removed for good reason.

however, your idea of stopping mid warp intrigues me. although i wouldnt want this to be easily done to stop it becoming a fail safe 'oh **** i shouldnt of warped to that gate' button. however, doing it with consequences could be awesome!! especialy if we bring in role play aspects.

considering how warp drives were explained earlier with the computer locking onto a target and warping you there, creating a bubble around your ship ect. how about you have the option of emergency collapsing that bubble? However, you will suffer reprocussions to this action:

Warp bubble gone, friction and mass starts taring your ship apart! your shields will be zerod due to the massive impact with real space.

Armor loose a set amount of hit points depending on ur size and mass (ie shield BC loose all its armor hit points due to size. armor BC has a lot more armor but more mass too! so loose all standard armor and 50-75% of additional buffer tank)
[done this cuz in pvp shield ships will regain shields quick where as armor wont, so given escape time and time to catch both will be at 25% tank or something]

And of course the massive impact from entering real space without warp bubble will massively impact upon the ships structure! maybe a 50% hit to hull damage and maybe damage some mods.

(and what i would totaly LOVE!! is if you emergency exit warp and a plannet is in the way... you impact and get destroyed!!!!)

this may seem like very harsh and stupid repercussions, but it will give an interesting dynamic. an emergency stop, to stop you hitting gate camps or if you do a stupid mistake where you might loose your ship. however, it will also make you significantly weakened and an easier target (so you havnt escaped so easily) !

does this sound like a balanced idea?

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BaneofSpace
Posted - 2011.01.21 19:13:00 - [15]
 

Nom


 

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