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frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:49:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: frog0ut
I'm just trying to find the most effective anti-ECM ship to assist my main ship.
Nyx.


Super-Capital is way out of my price range, and if I had a Nyx I wouldn't worry about getting jammed on my main in the first place.

captain foivos
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:51:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: captain foivos on 03/12/2010 14:51:47
Every single post that you've made has contained some comment about how you think people giving advice are trolling/idiots or a complaint over people pointing out your stupidity. I think I missed the part where you suddenly sprouted wings and started working for CCP as a forum moderator.

Please, for the sake of the children, stop posting.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:54:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 03/12/2010 14:54:46
Originally by: frog0ut
So basically, after admitting you didn't read the thread, and claiming it's because I posted it (a personal jab), you then decided to still not read the thread, and posted the same exact generic response. If you had even read the thread you would know I was already considering those. If your advice amounts to "lololol fit eccm bro" and aren't going to bother to read the thread, then please do not post in my thread.
I am not giving you specific fits or training plans because you don't need specific fits or training plans. Seriously, almost any ECCM fitted drone or missile boat will shred a lone Blackbird. Hell, a good ECCM fitted anything will shred a Blackbird. They're made of paper. They lock you out with ECM, but that's all they have. A blackbird has only two lows, so they're either going to have a ****y armor tank or a ****y shield tank, or in some cases, no tank at all. They have four highs but no weapon bonuses. They operate on the assumption that you will not be doing damage to them. You can fit an alt to do this if you want, but it'd be a waste of time and money. If you're talking about fighting off a gang with ECM, then it's not an ECM problem, it's a gang problem.

Nuniki
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:55:00 - [64]
 

I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine people tossing in 'personal jabs' when you post an "aka ecm whine" topic every day.

On topic? You don't need an alt. Fit one eccm to dramatically reduce ecm effectiveness, two for overkill (and to make them completely worthless). You can also use the lowslot modules, which although are less effective, might be the better option for you depending on what type of fit you're after.

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:00:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: frog0ut on 03/12/2010 15:00:36
Originally by: captain foivos
Edited by: captain foivos on 03/12/2010 14:51:47
Every single post that you've made has contained some comment about how you think people giving advice are trolling/idiots or a complaint over people pointing out your stupidity. I think I missed the part where you suddenly sprouted wings and started working for CCP as a forum moderator.

Please, for the sake of the children, stop posting.


You mean when I constructively replied to the guy telling me to fit 2 Sensor Dampeners on my Vexor to counter ECM, you mean when I constructively replied to the same guy telling me to fit friend or foe missiles on a Crow and mentioned how much of an idiot I was because I didn't? You mean the multiple personal attacks in this thread where people reply with offtopic one liners like "how many times have you died to a Falcon".

I have constructively replied to everyone who has actually read the thread and given me feedback. I told people who didn't read the thread that just posted "lol fit eccm <insert personal attack here>" to read the thread or not bother replying, in hopes to get better quality feedback.

It seems you are incapable of seeing this, or you're just another worthless troll here to add his personal attacks to this thread without reading it at all. How am I stupid for responding to feedback constructively? I don't think I'm a forum moderator, nor do I want to be, I merely say "please take your personal attacks outside this thread" as a gesture to keep this topic constructive.

unfortunately, it is filled with people like you who is not capable of communicating in a mature manner. And instead fills your posts with personal attacks and strawman arguments.

For the sake of humanity, please find something more constructive to do with your time than posting in threads you haven't read and just posting a load of personal attacks. I am asking you to leave my thread since you seem to have a personal grudge against me, or just are plain not able to communicate effectively as an adult. (I don't think I'm a mod, I just want the posts here to be of some sort of quality)

Thanks

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:04:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Nuniki
I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine people tossing in 'personal jabs' when you post an "aka ecm whine" topic every day.

On topic? You don't need an alt. Fit one eccm to dramatically reduce ecm effectiveness, two for overkill (and to make them completely worthless). You can also use the lowslot modules, which although are less effective, might be the better option for you depending on what type of fit you're after.


ECCM is not an option when I'm solo, especially on the ships that I am flying (Vexor/Thorax/Myrmidon) hence why I am getting an alt (read the thread) to help me out against ECM. Sure, I might not have to get an alt, but I am training one now to help me out, hence this thread. I have only posted 3 threads in the span of 6 days, and all of them except the first was constructive, these people simply aren't capable of responding in a positive manner.

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:17:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: captain foivos


An out-of-date 4chan meme and more personal attacks.


I am not going to respond to you anymore, either you are a bored individual with no time on his hands and occupys it by spamming this forum and negetively disrupting the community. Or you are some kind of guy who uses ECM and can't handle people openly discussing the counters to it. Either way, please remove yourself from my thread. You are purposely disrupting it and I have reported you for doing so.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:28:00 - [68]
 

I'd recommend a PvP Rook fit

[Rook, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5

128km missile range - 180km+ targeting range - decent scan res - 115 sensor strength (140 strength with LG talons) - 30k effective hit points. I think a Tengu would probably be better. But the Rook costs 1/5th of the price, and you don't lose SP if you die.

omgfreemoniez
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:30:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: frog0ut
Originally by: captain foivos


An out-of-date 4chan meme and more personal attacks.


... you are a bored individual with no time on his hands and occupys it by spamming this forum and negetively disrupting the community...


You just inadvertantly described yourself.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:31:00 - [70]
 

I would normally recommend a T2 Recon like the Curse, but I gather from your posts that this option is out of your price bracket / training time - at least for now.

A cheaper option, and quicker to train into, might be a EAS alt. A sentinels neut (+neut drones) would be an annoyance to a BB, but unlikely to knock a Falcon out of action - at least not quickly enough. So Id personally go for the Gallente EAS and damps: either to foil the jammers lock time or to mess with their lock range (scenario dependant).

C.

Sumach Merge
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:36:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Sumach Merge on 03/12/2010 15:37:57
if money aint no issue i would recommend this bad boy

[Tengu, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

160 sensor strength Shocked [before implants 216 eccm strength if you use lowgrade!! if you can afford to shell out for the highgrade implants you can get the strength to 282 Twisted EvilTwisted Evil] and lots of dps out to ecm ship ranges

this is the best anti ecm ship if you can afford to splash out 1 billion isk or so

Northcall
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:41:00 - [72]
 

Why the hell is this even in General Discussion...? Surely, Warfare & Tactics or Ships & Modules would be a more appropriate place...?
(I'm Mad) OP strikes me as a complete troll/****, maybe I'm wrong... ;)

Maylin Li
Caldari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:43:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Sumach Merge
Edited by: Sumach Merge on 03/12/2010 15:37:57
if money aint no issue i would recommend this bad boy

[Tengu, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

160 sensor strength Shocked [before implants 216 eccm strength if you use lowgrade!! if you can afford to shell out for the highgrade implants you can get the strength to 282 Twisted EvilTwisted Evil] and lots of dps out to ecm ship ranges

this is the best anti ecm ship if you can afford to splash out 1 billion isk or so


Does that work? I thought the ECCM implants were incredibly buggy when it came to ECCM subsystem and the implants.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:53:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 03/12/2010 16:34:05
Okay, let me try and wrap my head around this.

You're looking for a counter to ECM. Here's what I need to know: How important is countering ECM to you? This is not simply to take the ****: It's a very important question. If all you care about is countering ECM, and you're after the best anti ECM boat you can possibly buy, then just grab a Myrmidon or a Vexor, stick on a Scrambler/Disruptor and an MWD, add tank to taste, and then just fill out the rest with guns drones and ECCMs. If you can afford more money, consider an Ishtar or a Navy Vexor. A Drake might also do the job with FOF missiles in place of your guns.

It depends on what kind of ECM boat you want to tackle. If you're facing off against a scorpion, you're going to need something heavier duty like a Dominix. If you're talking about a well fitted boat which otherwise has some kind of ECM as a sort of backup system, an all-out ECCM boat might have trouble with that. You need a solution which caters to the threat. You're asking for a best solution to all possible ECM cases. There is no best solution, any more than there's a best counter to tracking disruption or energy neuts or drones or suicide gankers for all possible situations.

You're asking for people to spend time thinking for you. That's a very big request. If people come and give general advice while telling you to think for yourself, and you shoot them down on the grounds that that's not good enough, then hey, don't be surprised when they consider you an *******.

Also, people believe you started this thread as a subtle way of implying that ECM is so overpowered you need an alt to deal with it, so they may accuse you of being a whiney little *****.

If you're not explicit, people will draw their own conclusions. Surprise.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:11:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: frog0ut
It's not a complaint, I'm just trying to find the most effective anti-ECM ship to assist my main ship. Unfortunately most people do not even read the OP and just post generic trash.

That generic trash is the answer your moron.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:22:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Sig Sour
Oh man I accidentally my epeen


Trollzy as he is, he's right. Those generic fits are widespread because they work. Train your alt for Gallente, get a Vexor or Ishtar or Myrmidon, fit drones, ECCM/Sensor Damps in the meds, armor tank in the lows, ECCM implants if you can afford them, and make Falcon pilots cry.

You, unlike most people in this game, have something you can call a goal.
Make Falcons an endangered species.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:44:00 - [77]
 

This again??

frog0ut why is this so hard for you to understand??

Look, a Falcon, or ANY ECM boat for that matter, is not going to come after you solo. ECM is designed for group engagements. The only counter to ECM is numbers. You need to have more people on your side than the ECM pilot has jammers. And since you can't warp scram from a distance of more than 20-30km, the second the ECM pilot sees his shields dip, he's gone...if he's smart.

And a Falcon has a greater optimal range than 80km. I got my BB optimal range further. So you're going to need a long range battleship, with ECCM fitted, to counter an ECM ship. You're going to need to be able to 1 volley the jamming ship too.
In my Falcon, regardless of falloff, I always sit at 150km. No sense risking 100mil for a little extra jamming. But again, that is in gangs. That is what jamming ships are best at. I would never try to solo someone in a Falcon or Scorpion. Just not enough DPS.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:54:00 - [78]
 

Not that I care much as ECM is a dumb mechanic, but don't BlackBirds > Falcons at this jamming lark?

Other than than that, just bring more people seems to be the common answer to this problem.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2010.12.03 17:04:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Corporal Punishment08 on 03/12/2010 17:07:19
Falcon
■Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level

■Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level


Gravimetric Sensor Strength 28 points
Max Locked Targets 7
Max Targeting Range 120 km
Scan Resolution 180 mm
Signature Radius 200 m


Blackbird
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
■15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level

■20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per skill level
Gravimetric 20 points

Targets 8
Range 75 km
Scan Resolution 150 mm
Signature Radius 230 m

I should add that the Rook has same jamming stats as the Falcon, with different offensive abilities, and no Cov Ops cloak. The scorpion also has the same jamming bonuses, but again, different capabilities, and no cov ops cloak obviously.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2010.12.03 18:04:00 - [80]
 

Moved from General Discussion.

Anyura
Posted - 2010.12.03 21:40:00 - [81]
 

I know the OP's pain. I was missioning in an Omen when I first started playing Eve and despite having fitted it with focused medium beam lasers, it couldn't take out a T2 fitted falcon, even if I overheated my afterburner to try and close the range. Clearly ECM and by extension the Falcon is grossly overpowered and needs to be nerfed.

Pharos Pharos
Posted - 2010.12.03 21:49:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Pharos Pharos on 03/12/2010 21:49:32
While the OP totally shot himself in the foot with his prior spam threads, he's been quite reasonable here in pursuing answers to the simple question of what ship in an alt could best assist his main in a vexor/myrm when his main encounters ECM ships.

So to contribute, I think the ECCM'd drake is pretty much your best choice. Warp in at range, approach falcon with ECCM's overloaded, if you are jammed switch to FoF's and spam them as you approach. With a 1k/s mwd speed, getting in range is rarely a problem - and you don't have to worry about getting a lock to get drones on him as you might with a drone boat. This is 99% effective against falcons even with un-eccm'd drakes, as long as you just want to chase them off the field.

Also as you say, without having to fit tackle the drake will still have credible EHP and DPS and assist you in other situations and thus avoid being the one-trick pony of other solutions. The rook fit above or an eccm'd cerb (which, actually can engage out of the falcons range and thus avoid the need for ECCM entirely) would be another solution you could pursue - you won't kill them, but you will chase them off the field quickly and consistently. Both can also provide supplemental dps to your main.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.12.04 00:00:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 04/12/2010 00:00:46
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
This again??

frog0ut why is this so hard for you to understand??

Look, a Falcon, or ANY ECM boat for that matter, is not going to come after you solo.

What's your ****ing point? Obviously nobody's concerned about dealing with a single ECM ship since that doesn't occur.

Like 60% of the people in this thread are pants-on-head ******ed and, like children, have a kneejerk reaction to the words "frog0ut" and "ECM" and instantly turn into trollbabies.

Pathetic.

P.S. OP just get a Falcon alt, it's more useful than a ****fit drake or myrmidon anyway.

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.04 15:53:00 - [84]
 

I would like to extend my gratitude to everyone who replied to this thread with constructive feedback, And not so much thanks to the 2-bit trolls with an IQ thats worse than the sensor strength of a shuttle.. I've decided that I'm going to train for that Tengu that Sumach Merge linked, it looks awesome for completely destroying those eve players with questionable manhoods Razz. And not so much thanks to the 2-bit trolls with a sensor strength worse than a caldari shuttle.

Going to start out in the Caracal linked earlier in this thread, while my missile and drone skills get good enough to fly the Drake, and then from there I'll progress towards the Tengu/Rook fits. Since they seem to look like the most effective.

Thanks for the feedback those who contributed intelligently.
-frog

IoWalker
Posted - 2010.12.04 16:05:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer


You're asking for people to spend time thinking for you. That's a very big request. If people come and give general advice while telling you to think for yourself, and you shoot them down on the grounds that that's not good enough, then hey, don't be surprised when they consider you an *******.

Also, people believe you started this thread as a subtle way of implying that ECM is so overpowered you need an alt to deal with it, so they may accuse you of being a whiney little *****.

If you're not explicit, people will draw their own conclusions. Surprise.

Celedris
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.12.04 16:45:00 - [86]
 

HMLs, Sentry Drones, HAC/BS-Snipers, ECCM, Counter-ECM, High-DPS frigs with drones (Ranis/Dram/Comet), Pulse Apocs, and Damps all work pretty well, although a Falcon pilot with lvl-5 skills skills and range rigs can still jam pretty reliably from over 100km (under half falloff) and stay out of range from a lot of that.

If you just want a 1-1 Falcon hard counter, you want a Curse. More specifically you want a Curse with 3x med neuts, 2x ECCM, and speed-fit. It's got 100 sensor strength and overheats near 3km/s. Just overheat MWD, approach Falcon, and he is forced to warp out within the 20-second window it takes you to get in neut range. If he doesn't notice you fast enough you score a kill. If he gets a lucky jam and is dumb enough to stay on the field, just bump tackle him until you get a lock (shouldn't take more than one cycle) and then alpha his capacitor and dead.

Falcon pilots will be more afraid (quite rightfully) of a curse speeding towards them than just about any other single ship. No cap no jams.

frog0ut
Posted - 2010.12.04 18:02:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: IoWalker
Originally by: Black Dranzer


You're asking for people to spend time thinking for you. That's a very big request. If people come and give general advice while telling you to think for yourself, and you shoot them down on the grounds that that's not good enough, then hey, don't be surprised when they consider you an *******.

Also, people believe you started this thread as a subtle way of implying that ECM is so overpowered you need an alt to deal with it, so they may accuse you of being a whiney little *****.

If you're not explicit, people will draw their own conclusions. Surprise.



I completely agree, expecting people to read the 3 word thread title is expecting too much of the majority of the anti-ecm crowd.

oldmanst4r
Minmatar
oldmanst4r's Corporation
Posted - 2010.12.05 01:39:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: oldmanst4r on 05/12/2010 01:40:13
Edited by: oldmanst4r on 05/12/2010 01:39:48
Originally by: frog0ut
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: frog0ut
I'm just trying to find the most effective anti-ECM ship to assist my main ship.
Nyx.


Super-Capital is way out of my price range, and if I had a Nyx I wouldn't worry about getting jammed on my main in the first place.


Really though if you want to be competitive in solo pvp you need to have a Nyx and a falcon on standby.

I have found that the combination of Nyx+Falcon+Cane is really excellent for solo pvp. You can kill stuff in your cane smacking about what an elite pvper you are. If your cane bites off more than it can chew, you just warp in your Nyx. The falcon is for jamming any HICS when the the Blob comes.

People will ***** in local about how gay you are and how solo pvp is dead but you can just ignore them. They are just jealous of your Nyx.


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