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Peter XZ
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Peter XZ on 03/12/2010 00:53:12
I noticed the revolving component on the Noctis ship, and the ability to kinda peak into the interior of the ship through the front "windscreen" . CCP nice idea, adds a bit of realism to the game.

Add more moving sections to more ships, and when we zoom in on some windows, let us see the crews working feverishly in there :) ............ Please!


BTW Walk-in-ships anyone??





Marianne Taggart
Brutor Junker and Scrapper Swarm
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:54:00 - [2]
 

AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:56:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.


Actually capsuleer ships do have crews, they were established in one of the eve chronicles, can't remember which one though. But they are peons the pilots don't care about.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:56:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have crews. They control their crews by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.


fixed

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:56:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.


Wrong. Even capsuleer ships have crews, just very small ones.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:58:00 - [6]
 

it makes more sense for them to not have crews IMO, that would explain why capsuleer ships are better then NPC ships, no crew quarters, cafeterias, or recreation. just more space for shield generators, power plants ect.

but hey, lol at lore.

Marianne Taggart
Brutor Junker and Scrapper Swarm
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:59:00 - [7]
 

Hmm, if so that could add an extra dimension to the game. Crew experience, crew abilities, crew payroll. Why bother having 'crews' if there is no gameplay element to them.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
it makes more sense for them to not have crews IMO, that would explain why capsuleer ships are better then NPC ships, no crew quarters, cafeterias, or recreation. just more space for shield generators, power plants ect.

but hey, lol at lore.


They have limited crews, but they have crews. Just read the lore, your in their head, telling them what to do.

a dev commented years ago how at one point they were thinking of adding a new feature that sent you mail from grieving families every time you lost a ship.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.
Ships still have crews as told in the eve backstory chronicles. What the pod interface lets you do is function as an entire bridge command crew with just your mind. You can imagine the increase in effectiveness to reaction times and target selection but you still need the grunts for running the ship and maintainence and to do the things automation is unsuited for.


Alt Tabbed
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:01:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
it makes more sense for them to not have crews IMO, that would explain why capsuleer ships are better then NPC ships, no crew quarters, cafeterias, or recreation. just more space for shield generators, power plants ect.

but hey, lol at lore.



If you're going to say "lol lore" then I'll simply say

"Lol unrealistic expectations on exactly how big these ships are(in game)"


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:02:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Marianne Taggart
Hmm, if so that could add an extra dimension to the game. Crew experience, crew abilities, crew payroll. Why bother having 'crews' if there is no gameplay element to them.


considering you are the basically every single leader ship role on the ship, this doesn't make any sense.


However I would be 100% in support of a ship morale status. That would be awesome.

Alt Tabbed
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
Hmm, if so that could add an extra dimension to the game. Crew experience, crew abilities, crew payroll. Why bother having 'crews' if there is no gameplay element to them.


considering you are the basically every single leader ship role on the ship, this doesn't make any sense.


However I would be 100% in support of a ship morale status. That would be awesome.



My feelings on the matter...

Capt We told you more ECCM WTF no ECCM dammit a blackbird... Capt WTF were you thinking... Oh<click>

I turn off the comms and watch as my moral plummets because I'm permajammed.


Peter XZ
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
Hmm, if so that could add an extra dimension to the game. Crew experience, crew abilities, crew payroll. Why bother having 'crews' if there is no gameplay element to them.


considering you are the basically every single leader ship role on the ship, this doesn't make any sense.


However I would be 100% in support of a ship morale status. That would be awesome.



Yeah that would be cool, and animation in the "Interior" of the ship, when its all quiet the crew are happily going bout their business, when engaged in combat, crews running around loading turrets or whatever, can be just simple animations, but would be cool.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.
Ships still have crews as told in the eve backstory chronicles. What the pod interface lets you do is function as an entire bridge command crew with just your mind. You can imagine the increase in effectiveness to reaction times and target selection but you still need the grunts for running the ship and maintainence and to do the things automation is unsuited for.




Weirdly enough (and sadly enough) I was thinking about EVE crew sizes this morning, sort of at random.

Today, modern warships comparable in size to EVE ships operate with crew sizes smaller than a couple of infantry companies. ( see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cg-47-specs.htm). 50 years ago, crew sizes were even larger for a comparable size ship, due to a need to manually load all the guns. 50 years before that, with need for dedicated coal shovelers, ship crews were even bigger. In fact, one can track a progression of smaller crew size per square foot of ship space going back to the dawn of recorded maritime history. On trade ships this crew reduction has been even more dramatic. Massive container ships larger than an in-EVE industrial are effectively run with a score of dedicated crew, mostly consisting of bridge crew.

So given future tech automization removing the need for many jobs, the entire bridge crew (and a lot of command and control) being replaced by the pod, and really not a lot left to be handled. What is there for EVE crews to even do, besides run the engines and do routine maintenance? For all those reasons, despite the established lore, I can't imagine any use for more than a hundred or two people on a capsuleer run battleship, maybe an extra hundred or so on an NPC battleship to replace the command and control functions.

Peter XZ
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:16:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.
Ships still have crews as told in the eve backstory chronicles. What the pod interface lets you do is function as an entire bridge command crew with just your mind. You can imagine the increase in effectiveness to reaction times and target selection but you still need the grunts for running the ship and maintainence and to do the things automation is unsuited for.




Weirdly enough (and sadly enough) I was thinking about EVE crew sizes this morning, sort of at random.

Today, modern warships comparable in size to EVE ships operate with crew sizes smaller than a couple of infantry companies. ( see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cg-47-specs.htm). 50 years ago, crew sizes were even larger for a comparable size ship, due to a need to manually load all the guns. 50 years before that, with need for dedicated coal shovelers, ship crews were even bigger. In fact, one can track a progression of smaller crew size per square foot of ship space going back to the dawn of recorded maritime history. On trade ships this crew reduction has been even more dramatic. Massive container ships larger than an in-EVE industrial are effectively run with a score of dedicated crew, mostly consisting of bridge crew.

So given future tech automization removing the need for many jobs, the entire bridge crew (and a lot of command and control) being replaced by the pod, and really not a lot left to be handled. What is there for EVE crews to even do, besides run the engines and do routine maintenance? For all those reasons, despite the established lore, I can't imagine any use for more than a hundred or two people on a capsuleer run battleship, maybe an extra hundred or so on an NPC battleship to replace the command and control functions.



Well there will always be stuff to do on a spaceship, like making the capsuler dinner hehe, or maintaining various systems that are impossible to automate, or .....vacuuming........

Yafricken Zerious
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:27:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Grez
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.


Wrong. Even capsuleer ships have crews, just very small ones.


Free the Oompa-Loompas!

The Hag
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
They have limited crews, but they have crews. Just read the lore, your in their head, telling them what to do.

a dev commented years ago how at one point they were thinking of adding a new feature that sent you mail from grieving families every time you lost a ship.


NPC hate mail Shocked

Let it never be said devs can't troll Laughing

Actually there's a story about some battle (could have been alliance tournament) in which a Mega was lost with hundreds of crew members (400 was it?). I can't remember the story, as it's been years since I even looked at EVE Chronicles.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:26:00 - [18]
 

Apparently an Apoc has at least 6000 crew according to one of the chronicles.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05

MrPops
Caldari
Foundation
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:46:00 - [19]
 

I have been playing EVE since beta and I recall, at one point, crew size was available in the ship info sheet.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:52:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Apparently an Apoc has at least 6000 crew according to one of the chronicles.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05


Yeah, the official fiction has all these ships being just tremendously overcrewed. It does not make sense at all that a ship thousands of years advanced, without any command and control crew would be almost the same in crew requirement as a modern aircraft carrier, roughly equivilant in size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28CVN-65%29).

It's ridiculous.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Apparently an Apoc has at least 6000 crew according to one of the chronicles.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05


Yeah, the official fiction has all these ships being just tremendously overcrewed. It does not make sense at all that a ship thousands of years advanced, without any command and control crew would be almost the same in crew requirement as a modern aircraft carrier, roughly equivilant in size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28CVN-65%29).

It's ridiculous.


I always thought that was the crew size for non pod ships?

Or like max population maybe? how people can fit on board?

Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Apparently an Apoc has at least 6000 crew according to one of the chronicles.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05


Yeah, the official fiction has all these ships being just tremendously overcrewed. It does not make sense at all that a ship thousands of years advanced, without any command and control crew would be almost the same in crew requirement as a modern aircraft carrier, roughly equivilant in size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28CVN-65%29).

It's ridiculous.


It can be justified within the context of the lore, I think. Consider: A lot of repair and maintenance tasks (the primary purpose of crew on capsuleer ships) can only be accomplished by autonomous units able to move about the ship at will. While it might be tempting to use drones for this, the existence of Rogue Drones probably makes most capsuleers reluctant to entrust such vital tasks to machines that are not under the immediate dominion of their will.

(Hell, even my fighter-bombers are ignoring me these days.)

That, and in the grim and gritty world of EVE, I bet meat is cheaper than metal.

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:10:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kesper North
I bet meat is cheaper than metal.


QFT.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:13:00 - [24]
 

The way I see it, if the USS Enterprise was a Pod Controlled ship.

The captain and the capsule would replace Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Chekov,Uhura and possibly Scotty.

Leaving only the nameless Red Shirts, complete with the tendency to die en mass.
Also Bones would be replaced with an AI-MED.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kesper North

It can be justified within the context of the lore, I think. Consider: A lot of repair and maintenance tasks (the primary purpose of crew on capsuleer ships) can only be accomplished by autonomous units able to move about the ship at will. While it might be tempting to use drones for this, the existence of Rogue Drones probably makes most capsuleers reluctant to entrust such vital tasks to machines that are not under the immediate dominion of their will.



Counterpoint:

Quote:
Large Armor Repairer I

This module uses nano-assemblers to repair damage done to the armor of the ship.


from http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=3538

The eve module descriptions and general fiction describes a very high level of automation. As best I can figure, those 6000 crewman, maybe 50 do routine maintenance, 50 make sure blinky green lights stay green, 100 are cooks or laundy personnel, and the other 5800 swab the decks, forever.


EOSPHORUS XIII
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:16:00 - [26]
 

http://www.gamerdna.com/uimage/EPd13qWB/full/eve-online-ship-size-comparison-chart.jpg

These ships are ****ing huge mind.
Nothing comes remotely close to the size and complexity of ships in eve, comparing a modern day battleship to an eve cruiser, which would be a comparable size, is like comparing a piece of floating driftwood to HMS Invincible

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:23:00 - [27]
 

Who reps the reppers?

Well, no one if you over heat them, but I'll assume for arguments sake that the 6,000 crew make sure your battleship doesn't suddenly asspolde on you.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:40:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: EOSPHORUS XIII
http://www.gamerdna.com/uimage/EPd13qWB/full/eve-online-ship-size-comparison-chart.jpg

These ships are ****ing huge mind.
Nothing comes remotely close to the size and complexity of ships in eve, comparing a modern day battleship to an eve cruiser, which would be a comparable size, is like comparing a piece of floating driftwood to HMS Invincible


The size of an eve cruiser is on par with a contemporary cruiser, and a battleship is the size of a aircraft carrier. Which is pretty big, sure. The capitals are huge though.

spoon reaver
Posted - 2010.12.03 05:33:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: spoon reaver on 03/12/2010 05:33:20
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: EOSPHORUS XIII
http://www.gamerdna.com/uimage/EPd13qWB/full/eve-online-ship-size-comparison-chart.jpg

These ships are ****ing huge mind.
Nothing comes remotely close to the size and complexity of ships in eve, comparing a modern day battleship to an eve cruiser, which would be a comparable size, is like comparing a piece of floating driftwood to HMS Invincible


The size of an eve cruiser is on par with a contemporary cruiser, and a battleship is the size of a aircraft carrier. Which is pretty big, sure. The capitals are huge though.


Actually The battleship judging from the size of its windows and other structures tell me that its far.. far bigger then a modern day aircraft carrier.. I would know since i served on such a carrier.

also for people who would like to know the size of eve ships this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOJIyTHgwGQ would be a good example. Smile

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.12.03 06:00:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 03/12/2010 06:01:18
Originally by: Marianne Taggart
AFAIK, capsuleer ships have no crews. They are entirely controlled by a synesthesia neural link with the capsule pilot.


Wrong. Read my sig.


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