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Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:34:00 - [1]
 

I guess Im a bitter old vet.by some definitions. Im not happy about removal of the Learning Skills. I guess some people would call that being bitter. Ive played EVE for four years and I suppose that some people would consider me a vet. I dont think Im bitter and I dont necessarily believe Im a vet, but I dont see why I should be happy about Learning Skills being removed.

As someone who has maxed all 11 of the learning skills Ive enjoyed an advantage over those who wouldnt commit themselves. Im about to lose that. Five million three hundred seventy six thousand (5,376,000) skill points is not going to make up for that.

I spent isk on those training skills and I will not be reimbursed for it. CCP says they dont want to because that would inject 16 trillion isk into the economy. Bull plop. By my calculations the very worst theyd inject is 7.5 trillion and thats only if 300,000 subscribers had trained all 11 skills. Sure its not much by my standards these days, but its still mine and Id like it back and the way EVEs economy works it would not have the dramatic effect that CCP suggests it would.

I trained the Learning Skills without some special beginning bonus. No 1.6 times or double speed or whatever the cerebral acceleration bonus is if you buy a Commissioned Officers box set. I did it because CCP led me to believe that if I did, Id have the reward of the advantage of a faster training time forever. Why else would anyone train those skills?

It never occurred to me to complain about how long it takes to train things in EVE, be it Learning Skills or high end capital ships skills or whatever else. I understood that this is what people who came before me had to do to get their advantage and it seemed more than fair that I would have to do the same. So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

-Loss of advantage.
-Loss of my isk.
-Slower training time than the first 30 days of some newb coming into the game.

Want to tell me again why I should be happy about it and not express my displeasure? Want to tell me about how Im the one whos a whiner? It wasnt even the whining of beginners that caused this change. It was the whining of corporations who have such a high rate of turnover that the only chance they have of having large numbers is if those numbers are comprised of beginners and of course they want those beginners to have fast training.

If I were convinced that this change would increase the numbers of active players in EVE, Id be all for it. It wont.

-Windjammer

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:39:00 - [2]
 

well I guess you can quitz the eve or... stick your 5mil sp into some other area that is lacking like I am. I've been playing eve for 2 years, got all learning to lvl4 and thought it was a useless BS bunch of SP sinks as I ever could imagine. Now thankfully I can take my learning SP and put it somewhere more constructive like BS lvl V or round out my drone and Ewar skills. idk i haven't decided yet. +5 implants are still expensive for most noobs to buy so you got one up on them still.

U mad bro?

Can I haz your stuff?

Dirk Mortice
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:42:00 - [3]
 

Assuming you run with +5 implants ALL THE TIME it'd still take you over 8.5 years to make up the 5.4m bonus you are getting. HTFU and stop whining.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:44:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Ive been here for four years; I'm entitled to having an advantage over newbies in skill training because I trained learning skills.

-Windjammer



Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:44:00 - [5]
 

just put 5.376M SP into something that trains less than max .... or you would never respec to ...


Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:46:00 - [6]
 

The problem is that your assumption that the couple of extra SP you've gotten from your level 5 learnings skills somehow gave you an in game advantage is flawed. Having a few more SP than the next char doesn't make you perform better.

Cyberjunk
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:47:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.

Pretty much this, people should just accept that they are no longer elite and deal with.

ps. If you emorage quit over this can i have your stuff?

Klatho Cron
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:52:00 - [8]
 

Seems like some people still dont got that those sp you get as a compensation for the learnig skills arent by any means free. Or Bonus. This is beyond stupid. May god have mercy with your soul.

@OP: subscribers |= customers; subscribers |= accounts; accounts |= player.

With the rest you are correct. But stop whining about your 25mio. isk. Thats laughable.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:56:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Klatho Cron
Seems like some people still dont got that those sp you get as a compensation for the learnig skills arent by any means free. Or Bonus. This is beyond stupid. May god have mercy with your soul.
.

not they are not
however they add nothing to any mod or ship you have , so you can use them to aid that now.

and after the 14th you will train nearly as fast as you do not when you maxed out with +5's and repecced right ...

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Windjammer
Ive been here for four years; I'm entitled to having an advantage over newbies in skill training because I trained learning skills.

-Windjammer



Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.
Explain how the upcoming change benefits me or why I should care about you. I had fun in EVE from day one. This would suggest the deficiency is yours rather than mine since you found Learning Skills to be a damper.

Why do you feel entitled to have things handed to you on a silver platter? Perhaps youd care to explain how your premise doesnt extend to all skills trained in EVE.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:07:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence
The problem is that your assumption that the couple of extra SP you've gotten from your level 5 learnings skills somehow gave you an in game advantage is flawed. Having a few more SP than the next char doesn't make you perform better.
I'm sorry, but you've obviously missed a key part of EVE. Skill points applied in the correct way DO allow you to perform better. That's EVE 101 and even the rawest new player should understand that.

-Windjammer

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:11:00 - [12]
 

Because it'll take 8.5 years before you have less SP than what you'd normally have?
Give your stuff away. ASAP. I don't even care if it's not to me.

Darth Satanicus
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:13:00 - [13]
 

You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cyberjunk
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.

Pretty much this, people should just accept that they are no longer elite and deal with.

ps. If you emorage quit over this can i have your stuff?
LaughingYou really think that after 4 years Im not still going to be elite compared to you? As for my stuff?............Well if I do quit Ill give you a front row seat as I destroy every last bit of the tens of billions worth of it rather than give it to you. After all, you wont need my stuff. CCP will eventually give you what you want anyway. Just keep whining.

-Windjammer

Klatho Cron
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: DarkAegix
Because it'll take 8.5 years before you have less SP than what you'd normally have?
Give your stuff away. ASAP. I don't even care if it's not to me.


It takes 1 ****ing minute and he has less. Beyond stupid again..and it seems to never stop..

Deisu Darling
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:16:00 - [16]
 

Really the only thing I can say is don't be happy then, be miserable.

The idea that is coming across from people like yourself who are not happy about this is that "I had to train them, so I'm damn sure everyone else coming after me is going to have to train them."

We all have had things that made us sad pandas ( I still have 100's of probe BPO's, I cried like a baby when they broke my Falcon).

I laughed uncontrollably when the nano-nerf happened. It still makes me smile occasionally.

The only thing we can be sure of is that EVE will change, EVE is always changing. Sometimes you wont like it, sometimes you will **** yourself with excitement.

So go and find a nice quiet corner and think happy thoughts and stop moaning about wanting your ISK back, or making everyone suffer the way you did, or alternatively, get in a ship and go shoot something until it explodes.

Me, I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my 5 accounts all maxed out in learning.
I know the 14th is going to be a happy EVE day for me, why not try to make it one for you too.

And as the sound of "Always look on the bright side" gets louder in the background and my mind once more screams "Fighters V, at the click of a button, maybe all BS's Lvl V, no wait, Leadership Skills...Damn you CCP!....."

I need to lie down Laughing








Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:17:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Windjammer
Ive been here for four years; I'm entitled to having an advantage over newbies in skill training because I trained learning skills.

-Windjammer



Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.
Explain how the upcoming change benefits me or why I should care about you. I had fun in EVE from day one. This would suggest the deficiency is yours rather than mine since you found Learning Skills to be a damper.

Why do you feel entitled to have things handed to you on a silver platter? Perhaps youd care to explain how your premise doesnt extend to all skills trained in EVE.

-Windjammer



5.4 million SP reallocated into whatever skills you want, with no additional time investment; that's what you gain.

You resorted to Ad Hominem attacks hilariously quickly, by the way. Laughing

N'oah
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:18:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad


This tbh +1

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:18:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad
No. I don't need it. I want it. I don't give away advantages in real life for no reason and I see no reason to do so in this competitive game. I'm here to win. What are you here for? To weave baskets and do a drum circle sing along?

-Windjammer

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:19:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Riho on 01/12/2010 10:22:34
ok, the way i see thing with the learning skills:

1) you get ALL of your sp u put into there back... means you didnt waste time. i could understand the whiny, so called vets if you DIDNT. but you do.

2) you lose 72sp/h if you had em all up 5 and +5s in the head. that takes 8 years or so to take notice. 8 YEARS... read it 20 times if it doesnt fit in your head.... 8 FRIKKEN YEARS

3) now you can use those dull, pointless wasted SP in something more productive... do one of those really long lvl 5s you have pushed forward (titan 5... carrier 5, whatever) with a blink of an eye.

i have 2 chars with all maxed learning.... and im quite happy with the change. (this char doesnt have it maxed as its my main and i rather train usefull stuff than some crap learnings to 5 that take forever to pay off)

seesh... (my chars 5+ years old and i dont concider myself a vet)

PS: the op whining about the isk he put into the skills... if ur running lvl2s in a cruiser.. it might be some money to you.... otherwise you got your "boost" out of for you moneys worth.
i could understand if they nerfed +5 implants and took em away without giving you isk for them... it might sting...
i remember when they nerfed snakes... i had HG in 2 of my chars heads... do you think it was a cheap loss :P ? did i whine.. nope. couse i knew it was better for the game overall... and SO IS THIS.

/vent

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad
No. I don't need it. I want it. I don't give away advantages in real life for no reason and I see no reason to do so in this competitive game. I'm here to win. What are you here for? To weave baskets and do a drum circle sing along?

-Windjammer


I'm here to have fun, myself. I like blowing people up. What do you do with your main? Or is that 3.3 year old newbcorp character your main? Razz

Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Tell me why I should be happy about the removal of Learning Skills.


No! You tell us why your happiness matters to us or this is a moot point!

As far as I can tell the reason for their removal is the fact that it doesn't present a real choice, only a fake one, and it keeps new blood from sticking with the game because their first presentation of an important choice is actually a no brainer waste of time. Not the utilitarian goal of maximizing total happiness within NEW EDEN. Happiness isn't a very good metric for anything anyways, it's highly personal.

NEXT!

Rellik B00n
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:22:00 - [23]
 

Dont feed the troll ppl, if we leave it alone it will go back under its bridge.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Klatho Cron
Seems like some people still dont got that those sp you get as a compensation for the learnig skills arent by any means free. Or Bonus. This is beyond stupid. May god have mercy with your soul.

@OP: subscribers |= customers; subscribers |= accounts; accounts |= player.

With the rest you are correct. But stop whining about your 25mio. isk. Thats laughable.
I'll be charitable and assume that you speak english as a distant second language. As for your reasoning...I can't really excuse you.

Twenty five million isk is indeed a small amount of money. That wasn't the point. The point is that it's a poor excuse for robbing a man to say that it's not much.

-Windjammer

Bruce Carraway
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:25:00 - [25]
 

ccp better double the learning skills redistributable sp or else i quit.

im quitting over learning skills change; sent me any amount of isk and i will 10x it back to you.

Klatho Cron
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:34:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Klatho Cron on 01/12/2010 10:34:47
Originally by: Windjammer
I'll be charitable and assume that you speak english as a distant second language. As for your reasoning...I can't really excuse you.

Twenty five million isk is indeed a small amount of money. That wasn't the point. The point is that it's a poor excuse for robbing a man to say that it's not much.

-Windjammer


Whats wrong with my english ? It is my second language so youre right, but i`d be thankful to know what i did wrong.

You got a good excuse why ccp stole you money. You just dont accept it. Would it really have such an impact on the market ? I dont know. But i believe them. 16 trillion isk is some money..

Takseen
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:34:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad
No. I don't need it. I want it. I don't give away advantages in real life for no reason and I see no reason to do so in this competitive game. I'm here to win. What are you here for? To weave baskets and do a drum circle sing along?

-Windjammer


>Thinks he can win Eve
>Thinks he can win Eve by having the most skillpoints.
>laughinggirls.jpg etc

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:34:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Deisu Darling
Really the only thing I can say is don't be happy then, be miserable.

The idea that is coming across from people like yourself who are not happy about this is that "I had to train them, so I'm damn sure everyone else coming after me is going to have to train them."

We all have had things that made us sad pandas ( I still have 100's of probe BPO's, I cried like a baby when they broke my Falcon).

I laughed uncontrollably when the nano-nerf happened. It still makes me smile occasionally.

The only thing we can be sure of is that EVE will change, EVE is always changing. Sometimes you wont like it, sometimes you will **** yourself with excitement.

So go and find a nice quiet corner and think happy thoughts and stop moaning about wanting your ISK back, or making everyone suffer the way you did, or alternatively, get in a ship and go shoot something until it explodes.

Me, I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my 5 accounts all maxed out in learning.
I know the 14th is going to be a happy EVE day for me, why not try to make it one for you too.

And as the sound of "Always look on the bright side" gets louder in the background and my mind once more screams "Fighters V, at the click of a button, maybe all BS's Lvl V, no wait, Leadership Skills...Damn you CCP!....."

I need to lie down Laughing
I like you. I really do. I appreciate the somewhat civil nature and humor of your post. I have already determined that I will not be happy about the upcoming change, but Im certainly not going to be miserable.

I too got stuck with a ton of probe BPOs as well as the manufactured probes themselves. And the Falcon nerf? I hated that as much as I hated the Moros nerf.or the stealth bomber nerf or the great EM armor resist nerf and on and on.

Best regard,
Windjammer

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:35:00 - [29]
 

Firstly, your training time advantage doesn't mean much in a game nobody else wants to play.

Secondly, 22 million isk doesn't mean so much when everybody around you also gets 22 million isk.

Thirdly, your training time may be marginally slower, but you're still at the cap, and the extra skill points means you'll effectively be better off for the next eight years or so.

The needs of many outweigh the needs of a few.

Shut up and enjoy your SP remap.

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:40:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 01/12/2010 10:41:55
Originally by: Windjammer
Stuff


Nobody likes a whiner, especially one who is getting 5 million+ skillpoints back with no change to their attribute levels, and who just cannot handle the idea of newer players training skills faster but still won't ever reach his skill level.

Since you can't change the situation, either accept it and move on or leave because nobody here is interested in your complaints about it.


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