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Eiskaltt
Posted - 2010.12.01 08:10:00 - [1]
 

I play with a friend mainly, and before we start committing to any specific path of weaponry/ship, we want to know: Are there limits to which ships can be used to run T4s? Obviously BC and above, but other than that? We're thinking an Artillery Cane and Drake, with my alt for salvaging. Do we need battleships or T2 BCs for T4s?



Also, on a personal note, I know that Drake/Raven are amazing for missions, but can I use artillery to the same effect?

Rawrclaw
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:40:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rawrclaw on 01/12/2010 10:40:23
By T4's I'm assuming you mean level 4 missions?

If so you want to train for battaleships, an arty Maelstrom or Vargur (later on down the road) are extremely effective missioning ships and not far away from Raven and Golem.

Astriela
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:23:00 - [3]
 

don't have much experience with non caldari ships, but for caldari: drake can handle lvl 4s - it is not fast, but it works, dual drakes will easily handle them. Raven is bit soft so you will have to tank it quite heavily or have decent skills to take the pounding (but if you tank it against rat damage it should be smooth), T2 BC, T2 cruiser, T2 BS, T3 cruiser or any faction BS can do them without any problem. Just overtank a bit if you are not sure about mission

Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
Irrelevant.
Posted - 2010.12.02 00:50:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Raindeth on 02/12/2010 01:00:34
Originally by: Eiskaltt
Also, on a personal note, I know that Drake/Raven are amazing for missions, but can I use artillery to the same effect?


No. missiles win. and drakes out-tank canes by a mile.

[Edit: HOWEVER..... as another thread just reminded me, flying EASY ships into missions is a good way to learn bad habits and become a mediocre pilot. I started as Caldari and it was a while before I learned what "speed tanking" was...]

Iron Eater
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:09:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Eiskaltt
Do we need battleships or T2 BCs for T4s?

It depends on your skills and fitting. With good skills you can even do most L4 in a Rifter. With low skills I'd stick to BS/BC.

A Hurricane is poor L4 mission boat. Though a skilled missionrunner could do L4 with it successfully, in the hands of a beginner its a fail, especially compared to the drake. If I was in your place I'd wait until I could fly a BS.

The PvE preformance of artillery is poor compared to missiles. You get very good results with autocannons but those need good skills to do high dps at range.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2010.12.02 17:28:00 - [6]
 

2 dual repped apocs.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.12.02 19:34:00 - [7]
 

I run a Maelstrom and Raven against Angels, Domi/Loki and Abaddon against Serpentis. I wouldn't suggest training for Gallente though, feels like its half dps compared to Mael or Abaddon. Both my ships have enough tank to be able to stay in missions but since it's 2 that does a lot of DPS...it's quite easy. Stick to same target on both boats (especially battleships). T2 drones are a must on BS-class ships, train it.

Damien Du'Pont
Posted - 2010.12.02 22:46:00 - [8]
 

I generally use a Tengu in my L4 missions. Aside from missions where the rats do primarily EM damage (which is small in my neck of the woods), it runs very well. Before I got into a Tengu, I used a Drake. Only use a Drake as an intermediary to your goal of a Golem or a Tengu (if you side with Caldari ships for mission running). I have a Golem too that I sometimes take out, but I personally do not like the feel of using a Golem (plus it's an ugly bucket of bolts).

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.12.03 00:29:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Eiskaltt
I play with a friend mainly, and before we start committing to any specific path of weaponry/ship, we want to know: Are there limits to which ships can be used to run T4s?


The only limits are the ships you can fly into the mission. e.g.: you cannot use carriers to run level 4 missions in hisec.

Originally by: Eiskaltt
Obviously BC and above ...


Who told you that? Shoot them!

I have run level 4 missions such as Mordus Headhunters with fleets containing:

  • T1/faction frigates (e.g.: Imicus, Rifter)

  • Assault ships (e.g.: Ishkur)

  • T1/faction cruisers (e.g.: Omen Navy Issue)

  • Heavy assault ships (e.g.: Ishtar)

  • T2 cruisers (e.g.: Rook, Guardian)



Originally by: Eiskaltt
We're thinking an Artillery Cane and Drake, with my alt for salvaging. Do we need battleships or T2 BCs for T4s?


A simplistic way of approaching L4s is to have a dedicated "tank" who flies in first and gets all the aggro, after which the rest of the fleet warp in and start blowing stuff up. This will get the rest of your fleet killed eventually when someone kills a trigger out of order.

The Drake is far too low DPS to compete with other more capable ships for a role in L4 missions. Yes, it's easy to get into, it has a great tank that can be utilised to help low-skilled players get level 4 missions done at all. The drake will teach you bad habits, especially if you follow the advice on these forums about throwing shield power relays in the lows (oh! the ignominy!).

I'm upgrading my alt from flying a Dominix to flying an Ishtar. There's more to tanking missions than just packing as much "heals per second" as possible. Signature radius, speed, projected DPS are all just as important. I have speed-tanked missions using a Harpy or Ishkur that would have melted my Raven or Drake, for example.

If both you and your friend were to get into assault ships, you'll be able to get into L4 missions (and complete them!) without the expense of a Drake or other foolishly overtanked lump of metal. Get into heavy assault ships and you'll actually be able to enjoy yourselves while running missions.

Then again, perhaps that's not the advice you were looking for.

Yes, Drake + Arty 'cane will get you through level 4 missions. It's worth considering CNR/Golem or T2 sentry domi for sheer DPS though. There are many better options for tanking, ganking and enjoyment.

Vildrin
Entwi De Maila
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:23:00 - [10]
 

If you're using a drake my suggestion is to use it as others have mentioned as a stepping stone to a better platform.

Raven --> start off a bit tanky to get the feel for it
CNR --> Upgraded version <-- solo any level 4 with ease
Golem --> Upgraded version for Torps some like cruise with it as well for the range
Tengu -->

If you plan is to run level 4's regularly I suggest jumping into a pair of Battleships it is drastically increase you mission times and wallet faster than a pair of BC's, I'd lean away from the Tengu until you have a solid battleship the Tengu can take much longer to train for as a battleship you can jump in much faster, and more of the needed skills transfer to other ships as well.

Atra Hasis
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:41:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Atra Hasis on 03/12/2010 16:43:07
Rookie ships are fairly effective for L4's. So many people underestimate them, but they are incredible ships. The best part is, when you get blown up (and you will), all you have to do is dock, and you get a new one for free (plus a lil trit). Oh yes, and all this hubub about shield and armor tanking is nonsense. Hull tanking is by far the the only route true missioners go.

Actually, when you ask which ship is the best, you will never get a single answer. It all depends on your play style, your RL abilities and your character skillpoints. There is no wrong answer, your best bet is to simply take the suggestions from the standpoint of what would work best for you, not for the endgame. With skills and ability a frigate can be just as deadly as a BS, there is no best.

Personally, I love my proteus, and with my skills and the right mods I can push a Tank of over 1900 for some specific rats, its great. Plus its fast.

Sigaar
Posted - 2010.12.03 18:44:00 - [12]
 

I would aim for Level V missions if you are flying with a friend.
You dont need good skills for that either just a bit of understanding how it works.
One of you should be passive tanked dps and another one - support with some dps.

More isk/hr that way. Obviously you need 2x BSs. just google it

Catherine Ares
Posted - 2010.12.03 20:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Iron Eater
It depends on your skills and fitting. With good skills you can even do most L4 in a Rifter.


I'm going to assume this is hyperbole and not meant to be taken as fact. :P

Annaborn
Omnipotence Industries
Posted - 2010.12.03 23:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Catherine Ares
I'm going to assume this is hyperbole and not meant to be taken as fact. :P


There was a guy on the forums a week or so back claiming to run them in a slicer, so it might not be as hyperbolic as it sounds.

Kai Njord
Posted - 2010.12.04 01:37:00 - [15]
 

Yes friend of mine uses a CNR and rips trough any lvl 4 mission.
I myself have used a typhoon at first but moved to a maelstrom. My maelstrom is really great and goes trough missions fairly easy i just need to swap my guns from time to time from 1400mm howitzer to 800mm autocannons. (the typhoon is a great great ship but one of the most skill demanded ships also all my previous ships where shield tank and the typhoon was a armor tank so it was really hard)
When we mission together we really rip trough missons.

There are no limits (im not sure but maybe Capital ships aren't allowed but i think if you took a carrier on a mission you wont get far. They will gank you regardless of security)

If you look at ships and slots the Marauders seems to be build for missions. They have 7 high slots with 4 hardpoints on weapons and a 100% bonus so its like you have 8. The 3 free slots are used for traktor beam and salvager.

But basicaly 2 decent skilled and equiped Battlecruiser could handle lvl 4's you just need to be more strategic as with 2 battleships you can do it more gung ho rambo style :D

Dj'aro
Posted - 2010.12.04 11:34:00 - [16]
 

I don't get people saying power relay in lows is stupid on a Drake. With my low skills and 4 Power relay i got 525 omni tank ; with 3 i got 400ish ; with 2 i got 300ish ; with 1 i m down to maybe 230. Etc.

I know i don't need to pack 4 PR for most mish and by default i got 2 BCS II with 2 meta 4 SPR. It is overtank in some mission and not enough in some other (silence the informant solo asked for a 3rd SPR for instance).

Also i don't get why "easy ship won't learn you anything". Aren't you at a huge penalty allrdy when you do l4 with 2.5M SP ?

I really have tried to use the cane since i m naturally trained for minmat but the Drake was just vastly superior considering my skills.

If MWD was allowed in missions as a general rule i could go with my AC cane DPS fit @ 1.2 km/sec while an other low SP bud tank mish (most likely a drake, again). Or how would that work to speed tank with such a cane ? Only speed tanking experience i had was in my salvaging destro following some bud in a low sec complex, ended up aggroing all and keeping em at 100Km-ish range while they was killing.

What am i missing ? just elite-bull****-trip-drake-is-evUl kind of things ?

Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Elder Tribes
Posted - 2010.12.04 19:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Dj'aro
I don't get people saying power relay in lows is stupid on a Drake. With my low skills and 4 Power relay i got 525 omni tank ; with 3 i got 400ish ; with 2 i got 300ish ; with 1 i m down to maybe 230. Etc.

I know i don't need to pack 4 PR for most mish and by default i got 2 BCS II with 2 meta 4 SPR. It is overtank in some mission and not enough in some other (silence the informant solo asked for a 3rd SPR for instance).

Also i don't get why "easy ship won't learn you anything". Aren't you at a huge penalty allrdy when you do l4 with 2.5M SP ?

I really have tried to use the cane since i m naturally trained for minmat but the Drake was just vastly superior considering my skills.

If MWD was allowed in missions as a general rule i could go with my AC cane DPS fit @ 1.2 km/sec while an other low SP bud tank mish (most likely a drake, again). Or how would that work to speed tank with such a cane ? Only speed tanking experience i had was in my salvaging destro following some bud in a low sec complex, ended up aggroing all and keeping em at 100Km-ish range while they was killing.

What am i missing ? just elite-bull****-trip-drake-is-evUl kind of things ?


No, what you are missing is "Yes-you-can do-it-in-a-drake-,-but-a-BS-will-be-x-time-quicker" things. Owh and "More-tank-than-enough-is-useless-,-whilst-more-gank-equals-faster-blitzing-equals-more-isk-/-hour" things. But still...

Alt Tabbed
Posted - 2010.12.05 12:27:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Catherine Ares
Originally by: Iron Eater
It depends on your skills and fitting. With good skills you can even do most L4 in a Rifter.


I'm going to assume this is hyperbole and not meant to be taken as fact. :P



I have done L4s in a Rifter.

It is not in any way efficient but it's 100% more enjoyable than running them is a LOLdps or LOLtank Mael.

I hate that ship.



 

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