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Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:12:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:56:37
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Machete Visor
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:25:00 - [2]
 

you've put some time in thinking about this

if you want to be successful, you'll discuss corporate governance in more detail. what are the investor safeguards? I don't think anyone wants your mobile...

the history of eve is full of 'banks' that walked with the ISK.



Punker Adagear
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:28:00 - [3]
 

Have to agree with Machete Visor on this
Im interested in this prospect but i want to know how will i be protected as an investor

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:45:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 30/11/2010 13:45:48
Originally by: Hidaiel

- Company's social capital is 400 bil ISKs



Can you prove that isk exists? Is there any collateral being offered with a third party to secure it for investors? These questions need to be answered before a bank could consider opening up tbh, or are you somehow unaware of the history of such things in the past (which would imply a worrying lack of research into the matter?)

Tekota
The Freighter Factory
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:58:00 - [5]
 

Interest rates given to your creditors seem high. I'd perhaps go so far as to say unfeasibly high. How will you keep the bank solvent (without government bailouts....) if you find yourself in no shortage of creditors but few debtors?

Countesss
Posted - 2010.11.30 14:07:00 - [6]
 

You seem like you know what you are talking about in rl, but as far as eve goes, you're lost. You have not done your eve research, and you are getting ahead of yourself.

Firstly your rates are "too good to be true" meaning huge red flag. I guarantee they are not sustainable. Look up DBANK. Solo run service, another big red flag.

No previous reputation, another red flag.
Eager to start making a website before even getting a discussion off the ground or any feel for the market, big red flag.

You have 400b? Show me.
You haver experience? Show me.
You have tracking? Show me.
Who are you and why should I or anybody trust you?

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.11.30 14:17:00 - [7]
 

Not to be a downer but banks just don't work in EVE.

There has not been a single successful bank in EVE yet. Every single one has wound up being a scam or having all, or most, of it's isk scammed away. Leaving bank investors and depositors in the lurch.

I would recommend taking a walk through the archives here and looking at just how many banks have tried and died in EVE.

RAW23
Posted - 2010.11.30 14:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Taram Caldar
Not to be a downer but banks just don't work in EVE.

There has not been a single successful bank in EVE yet. Every single one has wound up being a scam or having all, or most, of it's isk scammed away. Leaving bank investors and depositors in the lurch.

I would recommend taking a walk through the archives here and looking at just how many banks have tried and died in EVE.


This is certainly true, although borrowing to reloan the money with a non 'bank' setup has worked ok in the past. However, that is largely due to the fact that this model involves raising money in blocks not in an open-ended way and is inherently more open to public scrutiny and oversight.

What is really concerning about your offer is that the business plan does not seem credible. The rates you are offering to lenders simply can't be translated into borrowing rates because you will be hugely uncompetitive. Collateralised loans are widely available at c. 5% per month so I don't see much scope for profit if you are already borrowing at three times that cost. If your intention is to make uncollateralised loans at high rates of return then this is, historically, a very bad idea. I'm not aware of any eve lending institution that has run successfully using such an approach. And even then, you borrowing rates will be higher than the usual lending rates for uncollateralised loans.

On another note, forgive my ignorance but what is social capital and how do you calculate your 400 billion worth of it?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.11.30 15:32:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 30/11/2010 15:32:50
Quote:

Fell free to discuss and ask me for info, or whatever you want.



1) Could you please elaborate about why this should be called "bank" and not interest rate spread trading?

2) Could you please elaborate about the guarantees against scam and default and a statement about business feasibility?

3) I noticed the bonds are puttable but you did not specify if they were callable and if so at what premium.

4) I did not find a governance statement, exit strategy or anything.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2010.11.30 17:17:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Roguehalo on 30/11/2010 17:17:26

Game mechanics are such that eventually the size of your operation would force you to either run a ponzi scheme(ebank) or just run with the isk(dbank)

However as history has shown there is just too much isk floating about in Eve and you'll probabbly get lots of su.......err customers Very Happy

edit : spelling

Monte Shill
Posted - 2010.11.30 18:00:00 - [11]
 

OP: I have an idea how to make untold amounts of isk. TO THE BAT FORUM!

Its a scam, "banks" in EVE are just another name for "Change? *rattle cup* Change?". Isk in my wallet makes me more isk if I am gone for a week (and its not doing anything) then isk in your wallet when you bail out.

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 18:07:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:57:02
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 18:21:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:57:20
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2010.11.30 18:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Hidaiel

Hello to everybody, this will be a temporary scam, which will be followed by a fake corporation's dedicated website in the next days, where i'm going to advertise and describe to you, pilots and corps, the services not actually offered by the New Caprica Trade and Financial Bank.

I've decided to open this corporation, because i love ISK, it lets me do stuff in game, and of course i'd like to get lots of it for free, since from when i've begun to play at EVE, i've heard this was the quickest route to being rich.
The corp (or company if you prefer...or just bank :D) is owned by Hidaiel, which is my scam alt. I'm claiming to have no other character, because telling you who my main is would be damaging.
Of course i've scammed in both the virtual and the real life. Frauding people is a too easy game...at least for me.

...

Why are we safe?
- You can track your investment, and see how we lie about how your money is being spent by the bank thanks to our website
- Company's social (aka nonexistent) capital is 400 bil ISKs
-Experience, maximum flexibility, possibility to have your money back as soon as possible, whenever you want (as long as you don't ever want it).
-Always contactable. You'll be given my newly created Skype, MSN and throwaway mobile phone.

Fell free to discuss and ask me for info, or whatever you want.

The company will also provide a bad customers registry, where will be listed possible scammers or frauders.
This will consist primarily of people who are inconvenient to our attempt to scam.

Regards.

Hidaiel
CEO

Please note: In your investment no money will be lost due to dumb approximations, it will all be lost when I cut and run. :)


fixed that for you.

Seriously, though, bank post with a toon with no MD history?
scam.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2010.11.30 19:06:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 30/11/2010 19:06:44

Your first post was reasonably well written - but that "..."/too lazy to finish even half a sentence style is pretty terrible.

Maybe that's how you would speak English but you should never write this way.

Nobody will mind you taking the extra 5 minutes that you might need to finish your sentences and maybe look up a word or two in the dictionary.


(That's all I have to contribute to this thread.)

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.11.30 19:07:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 30/11/2010 19:08:09
Originally by: Hidaiel

History of EVE is full of frauds. And i've been frauded once because i've trusted some people, when i perfectly knew that the risk was too high.
But this isn't necessarily implied.

The main investor warranty is the fact that...if something goes wrong, there's a 400bil (at the beginning) capital, ready to pay out interests, and to refund the invested money.

There's no police here, there are no Judges who can put me in prison...everybody could be a scammer...until you don't try, you'll never know.

I could say that another main protection is (at least for the investment's part of the company) the bond's structure, and the information provided.
The website which will host the company's

I can prove the ISK exists...Investors, thanks to the website, will have the possibility to check Datas like...Current Bank Exposure, Current Bank Wallet, Current Bank "Debts", and so on....
Of course, since i'm also running my all days activity here on EVE, i won't give full access API or whatever...


It's not necessarily implied but it is probably accurate, especially when considering every bank has failed. All of them. 100% failure rate is certainly a reason to not give it yet another go.

You having 400 billion isk also doesn't secure it against scams, does it?

Nor is having a website showing a balance proof by any stretch of the imagination. Without access to API data or some sort of in-game function being used there is no way to tell whether you have that isk or not simply by looking at your own website, which for all we know could just have you making numbers up on it.

There's no security in this, your numbers are unrealistic, and you used the bank word. If people still give you isk after all this frankly they probably can't tie their own shoe laces yet and would have lost that isk before long anyway.


Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 19:47:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:57:37
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 19:56:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:57:53
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:05:00 - [19]
 

Dude, the ellipses, it's like you're trying to make a point... but can't.

Also, scam.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:15:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 30/11/2010 20:17:28
I was part quoting to a) cut down on space, there is a character limit in posts and b) so that my answers would be directed towards specific parts of what you said.

Yes, it's a game, yes making 20% is not impossible - is it likely, however, that you will consistently make enough profit while shifting tens of billions of isk or more around, possibly up to the full 400billion isk, without suffering some sort of burnout in the process? There are diminishing returns with higher capital. So yes, your rates ARE unrealistic.

If I were asking people to invest in my business idea, where I was not posting actual collateral, yes I WOULD give my full API and anyone investing WITHOUT an audit being done on an uncollateralized loan needs their head checked. You can type about having a trillion isk and it doesn't make it true. What makes it true, what counts as PROOF, is some form of audit. Your word is worth nothing when we don't know who you are.

You then make the point that even if you gave out your full API, proving you have the isk, it would still not guarantee you wont run off with the isk anyway .. Yes, that is very true! Which is why an unsecured loan is a daft idea for anyone to get into. Proven time and time again there are bonds that pay and bonds that scam, and it's pot luck which one you end up investing in.

This bank idea of yours is unrealistic, unsecured and your attitude in replies (let's not forget you came here, without having done your research, asking for isk off people - the onus was on you to make it worth while not on us to give you the benefit of the doubt) leaves me with NO doubt whatsoever this is either a scam or a future failing enterprise.

Carnagge
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:15:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Carnagge on 30/11/2010 20:15:51
how about you submit your character to an audit? Or better yet any and all characters that will be involved in this "bank".

Mella Elcus
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:20:00 - [22]
 

Cool, a bank.
Sign me up for a 100b loan, you'll get 120b back in 30 days.
If you want I can even make you a website so you can see your isk growing.

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:23:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 20:58:13
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Tekota
The Freighter Factory
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Hidaiel

Well at least you said why you think this. I really appreciate it.
At contrary i suggest people to go back to their parents/family and ask about...what education is.
This is a game, but behind a game there are people, which could be older than you, or that could not appreciate silly jokes, or 3 words replies, or invited to look at the dictionary before writing on the main forum of a game NOT reserved to english speakers.

Anyway...i've never did this, i've never did an audit here in EVE and i don't know how to do it...could you please tell me, how could i certify that i'm not a scammer, without having to post my API keys?


Trouble is that here you are suggesting that you are more educated than everyone else, and that the reason every other bank has failed is because you know how to run one but no-one else does.

Hell you may well be an economics professor. You may well have educated a generation of Italian bankers about fiscal prudence (a dubious boast in the current climate). You may have done all of this but if you don't know what an audit might entail or the reason people might want you to look at getting one then you are obviously lacking in education about Eve. And if you're lacking education about Eve then your Eve based fiscal projections are also going to be deemed suspect, especially when they contradict everything and everyone that has come before you.

The true value of education is knowing that there always more to know.

Induc
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:46:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Hidaiel
how could i certify that i'm not a scammer, without having to post my API keys?

Am I understanding you correctly when you're basically asking people to trust you with billions and billions of their own isk when you can't even trust a single auditor (who would never reveal "private" information) with your full api key?

Seriously, this better be a scam, can't imagine someone to be that naive...

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:50:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 21:07:29
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 20:53:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Hidaiel on 30/11/2010 21:07:43
La madre degli ignoranti maleducati sempre in cinta...

Dezolf
Minmatar
DAX Action Stance
Posted - 2010.11.30 21:17:00 - [28]
 


Hidaiel
Posted - 2010.11.30 21:28:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Dezolf
Sorry mate, but..


EVE search doesn't count...this is the main thread...this was.
Thanks to everybody for being so polite, and kind :/.

Back to trade...yeah...scamming would be so easy compared to this....:|

Dezolf
Minmatar
DAX Action Stance
Posted - 2010.11.30 21:35:00 - [30]
 

People are being critical because there have been a lot of tried-and-failed (and scam) banking in Eve.
On top of that, you're basically an unknown. You claim you know a lot of things, but just because you say so, doesn't make it true.
An auditor might help you strengthen your claims, but you avoid it. Even though said auditor wouldn't steal your market "secrets".
After being critizised and inquired, you become defensive - and not in a good way.
And all that after just your initial post.

If this (relatively small) amount of critizism makes you reconsider, maybe this wasn't something you should do. When **** hits the fan, you'd be ****ed. And so would your investors.
And that's just one (of thousands of) reason(s) for people to be so "aggressive" about the initial offering.


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