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blankseplocked [Proposal] I have fixed lag.
 
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Astroka
Posted - 2011.04.12 05:48:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: klyeme
I see 1 large problem in this.

While time for the people fighting would slow down, other areas left in the game wouldn't. This would allow large numbers of support ships to come to the aid of the fleet in that system, inducing a metagame "slow down the system so our reinforcements have something to reinforce when they get there."

The only solution I can see is to make the gates and cynos only allow jumps out of the system when the system goes into this state.

Pretty much this - and, if this restriction was put in place, they might as well just limit the number of people in the system and skip this whole idea altogether.

Khalis Sanguar
Posted - 2011.04.12 07:10:00 - [242]
 

A simple, yet beautiful solution. Great idea! Very Happy

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 09:49:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: klyeme
I see 1 large problem in this.

While time for the people fighting would slow down, other areas left in the game wouldn't. This would allow large numbers of support ships to come to the aid of the fleet in that system, inducing a metagame "slow down the system so our reinforcements have something to reinforce when they get there."

The only solution I can see is to make the gates and cynos only allow jumps out of the system when the system goes into this state.

Pretty much this - and, if this restriction was put in place, they might as well just limit the number of people in the system and skip this whole idea altogether.


this is certainly something i would prefer when time dialation gets to a certain level.

I would like to stress that jumping a new fleet into a system with time dialation in motion would still have lag from all the differing calls to the server needed. it would affect the fleet jumping in most and not the fleet on grid.
So even with time dialation in effect theres a strategic decision to jump people into a system, much like there is now.
plz plz plz read the entire discussion before posting! all of these have been discussed to an acceptable state so far.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 10:13:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Calathea Sata

Formalizing lag as a game mechanic, really? That is really, really the worst way possible of fixing the problem, the problem of "whoever brings the most wins thus making everyone blobing as big a blob as possible". It will not fix the problem, only easing the syndrome, simply because of people will always try to bring as many as possible into the fight and the system will always be stretched outside its limit.



honnest to GOD... READ THE WHOLE DISCUSSION before posting!!

Originally by: Calathea Sata

Formalizing lag (Time Dilation) can ony ease out that much of lag and people will just keep bringing in more and more people until the server cannot afford the workload again. Moreover, it simply sounds ridiculous and immersion breaking.


if you're all for immersion, the id have to say this... a bit of eve fiction about titans was that a whole planets tidal forces were affected by merely the presence of a titan too close to a planet. let alone 40 of them in the same system along with dozens of supers and 100's of carriers releasing insanely collosal amounts of energy in a struggle for domminence. that level of activity and energy release would affect the fabric of space. you could even say the mass of all of the ships on one grid would be soo collossal that it'd cause a gravity well that woould cause a time dialation effect.

Originally by: Calathea Sata

Lag is a natural product of the current game design itself: the fantasy of unlimited numbers of ship fighting together vs the realistic capabilities of the internet and the servers. As long as bringing as many ships into the fight as possible means easier wins, people will do it.


no sh*t! you tell me in what situation in real life that wont occur... my 5000 tank devision beats your 50 tanks! seriously? no way! my 50 tanks should beat your 5000 tanks... grr i hate the real world.. sum1 should change the way physics and logic works so that i have the advantage always!

Originally by: Calathea Sata

Time Dilation won't work. Instead CCP should think about the game design itself: is the concept of an unlimited amount of ships fighting realistic? Perhaps 1000 vs 1000 will not be too different than 2000 vs 2000 simply because the screen and overview cannot contain that much information? Perhaps it is not 1000 but 500? How should we discourage people going over 500, maybe we can create some mechanisms to eliminate the advantages of bringing in more than 500 ships? Etc etc, I am only illustrating an example. I am sure there are better ideas than this one; I am sure someone can think of many more better ideas. But Time Dilation is the worst solution possible.



im sure your idea would work if no one had any vested interest in anything on this game... but if that was the case then eve wouldnt be eve. if the concept u want above is really the game u want i have a simple solution for you... go play A SINGLE PLAYER GAME!

the fact 1000's of people appear in one system is because they all believe in the need to fight for a common goal.

There is an upper limit to the amount of people that a finite sized group of individuals can call upon to fight for a common goal. it wont scale to infinity. and if you think it will then u should check urself into some form of common-sense clinic, or failing that just announce yourself as clinicly insane as you seem to have the desire to be as absurd in your views as everyone else in those institutions.

Araviel
Gallente
Aliastra

Posted - 2011.04.12 10:19:00 - [245]
 

i think this is a interesting idea and worth trying

hired goon
Posted - 2011.04.12 17:16:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Calathea Sata
This idea needs to be strongly put down.



This is a mash of all the stupidest, most unfounded arguments against time dilation. First you mention that most incorrect and abhorrent of insidious fallacies, the classic "if you fix lag then people will just bring more". This is beyond ludicrous. It firstly assumes in these huge fights people are being held back to avoid lag, when in fact as most alliance members will explain, when high stakes are on the table they try to bring every single person they possibly can. And secondly it acts as an argument against even fixing lag at all, because the better the servers get at coping, the more people will come, so CCP may as well not bother.

Then you suggest a different solution, perhaps an incentive not to fight in two huge fleets. This is a good idea in itself, but is not a reason not to try time dilation. It is also an idea that should be discussed somewhere else as it is gameplay-related and not relevant. In addition, large fleet fights are something intrinsic to Eve, that a lot of people are proud of, and want to take part in. We are all sci-fi fans who have seen it on TV and in movies, why shouldn't we enjoy it in the best sci-fi multi player game that exists? CCP agrees with this point.

Another two points you make at the end of the first paragraph are that the idea "sounds ridiculous" and "immersion breaking". These are highly subjective and many will disagree with you. Also even if you are correct, I know thousands of players who would put up with a little ridiculous immersion breaking if they thought it'd let them control their ship and have it actually respond.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 17:56:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Calathea Sata
This idea needs to be strongly put down.



This is a mash of all the stupidest, most unfounded arguments against time dilation. First you mention that most incorrect and abhorrent of insidious fallacies, the classic "if you fix lag then people will just bring more". This is beyond ludicrous. It firstly assumes in these huge fights people are being held back to avoid lag, when in fact as most alliance members will explain, when high stakes are on the table they try to bring every single person they possibly can. And secondly it acts as an argument against even fixing lag at all, because the better the servers get at coping, the more people will come, so CCP may as well not bother.

Then you suggest a different solution, perhaps an incentive not to fight in two huge fleets. This is a good idea in itself, but is not a reason not to try time dilation. It is also an idea that should be discussed somewhere else as it is gameplay-related and not relevant. In addition, large fleet fights are something intrinsic to Eve, that a lot of people are proud of, and want to take part in. We are all sci-fi fans who have seen it on TV and in movies, why shouldn't we enjoy it in the best sci-fi multi player game that exists? CCP agrees with this point.

Another two points you make at the end of the first paragraph are that the idea "sounds ridiculous" and "immersion breaking". These are highly subjective and many will disagree with you. Also even if you are correct, I know thousands of players who would put up with a little ridiculous immersion breaking if they thought it'd let them control their ship and have it actually respond.


very very well said hired goon! and just fyi Calathea Sata is sooo obviously trolling on the eve general discussion. Expect the same here im sure!

sooo fail!

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.04.12 18:01:00 - [248]
 

Many detractors seem to have the mistaken impression that these giant fleet battles are caused by sovereignty mechanics. Almost every single big fleet fight I've been in is caused by both sides springing traps on each other.

For instance, one side will use a carrier as bait to trap a super cap. Once the super shows up, they get tackled, then they spring the trap. However, the super was also actually a trap and its support fleet jumps in. From this point on, it is little more than an escalation as both sides scramble to get additional forces on the field to prevent the destruction of the fleet they did not realize was at such a great risk. This spirals out of control until the system ends up with 2000+ pilots.

Many of the huge fleets that jump in are reinforcement fleets called into a battle that was hanging in the balance.

Chris Vattic
Paxton Industries
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.12 22:28:00 - [249]
 

It's so insane it might actually work Cool

I definitely endorse this product/service.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers

Posted - 2011.04.13 13:04:00 - [250]
 

But... well... uh... ok...

Actually, best idea thus far. Supported.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.04.13 21:35:00 - [251]
 

Making EVE even slower?

Who thought that would ever be a good idea :>

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.17 00:10:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Calathea Sata
This idea needs to be strongly put down.



This is a mash of all the stupidest, most unfounded arguments against time dilation. First you mention that most incorrect and abhorrent of insidious fallacies, the classic "if you fix lag then people will just bring more". This is beyond ludicrous. It firstly assumes in these huge fights people are being held back to avoid lag, when in fact as most alliance members will explain, when high stakes are on the table they try to bring every single person they possibly can. And secondly it acts as an argument against even fixing lag at all, because the better the servers get at coping, the more people will come, so CCP may as well not bother.

Then you suggest a different solution, perhaps an incentive not to fight in two huge fleets. This is a good idea in itself, but is not a reason not to try time dilation. It is also an idea that should be discussed somewhere else as it is gameplay-related and not relevant. In addition, large fleet fights are something intrinsic to Eve, that a lot of people are proud of, and want to take part in. We are all sci-fi fans who have seen it on TV and in movies, why shouldn't we enjoy it in the best sci-fi multi player game that exists? CCP agrees with this point.

Another two points you make at the end of the first paragraph are that the idea "sounds ridiculous" and "immersion breaking". These are highly subjective and many will disagree with you. Also even if you are correct, I know thousands of players who would put up with a little ridiculous immersion breaking if they thought it'd let them control their ship and have it actually respond.


you're a goddamned hero, hired goon

shine on

DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:56:00 - [253]
 

Congratulations for your idea being mentioned in the dev blog.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=900

Although Veritas mentions that he made a prototype for this idea back in Aug. 2010, this post should get some attention for putting this idea in public.

Morgwa
SolarFlare Mining INC
Posted - 2011.04.22 19:59:00 - [254]
 

unless ccp has stated it wont work with the current code etc. i dont see this as a bad idea. +1

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.23 14:49:00 - [255]
 

I think this is a brilliant idea, which aside from the obvious gameplay benefits (no more futile mashing of keyboard yelling "GODDAMN YOU CCP AND YOUR SERVER!!!!11111"....) could look very cool if done properly.

Kind of like the start of the Tyrannis trailor with the close up scene off the Naglfar's artillery...

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare

Posted - 2011.05.09 10:31:00 - [256]
 

Did a dev read this, change the name to 'time dilation' and claim all the credit!?

lol

Inglewood Spilberg
Posted - 2011.05.11 18:35:00 - [257]
 

Great idea, but just one question, what is supposed to happens with those battles that take about 3 hours to end?? are those gonna take 30 hours? (in our time relatively speaking of course)
Confused

Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:48:00 - [258]
 

The concept is good, but I am not sure about the execution.
Yes ok from a fleet fight point of view 'knowing' what you have done will 'eventually' actually happen is is good, but from a gameplay point of view its still unplayable.

You will still experience the same lag, same slow down, the fights will take just as long if not longer. Do you really want to see some jittery screen? or will it actually be really sloooowwww, and if so do you even what that either?

it will kill the game, from a gameplay point of view IMO, do i really want to go into a fleet fight, wheres its supposed to be fast action, fast pased, everything and everyone going mental, to something thats dreary, slow and cumbersome..No..sorry I dont

Yes for now, In support that its a 'temporary' measure. But I feel CCP will just implement this and it will stay like this.

I think personally these are the problems

1) Badly coded and non performant modules that need looking at
2) Database queries and transactions need some serious love
3) Is Python the best language to use? Rather than C++ (I know some changes are happening)


4) But the biggie for me is are we kidding ourselves thinking that EVE ONE SHARD universe can actually work? Isnt this why many other MMOS have more than one world you can play one? Are CCP trying to keep this 'Look we have a single universe game' but infact as eve hasnt constantly grown this is just not feasible anymore?

xian2
Posted - 2011.05.16 10:38:00 - [259]
 

I vote yes for time dilation, and I am glad that the CSM is making it their priority.

Manique
Caldari
Ominous Corp

Posted - 2011.07.04 09:56:00 - [260]
 

/signed supported also Matrix CGI is nice :P

Darryl Ward
Posted - 2011.07.05 04:30:00 - [261]
 

The only one problem is, in a situation where one system is lagged due to a huge battle, those in the battle can call for reinforcements who might be able to play at normal speed until they join the battle, giving them a timing advantage they would not have otherwise.

But then again, weighing this con against an unplayable game makes it a worthwhile alternative. The metagaming ability to slow down a battle to ensure reinforcements is a worthwhile tradeoff, plus it might encourage even bigger, more epic battles. And they will be playable!

Jack Viresi
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.07.05 23:54:00 - [262]
 

supported.

killmc
Gallente
Navajo commandos

Posted - 2011.07.06 19:19:00 - [263]
 

+1


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