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blankseplocked [Proposal] I have fixed lag.
 
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hired goon
Posted - 2010.11.28 02:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: hired goon on 28/11/2010 11:51:08
Though most people would like Lag to completely disappear, at the current level of technology it is impossible to accomplish this. We must come to terms with this fact if we want to keep our ground-breaking single shard world. CCP are trying their hardest with 'need for speed' in a multi-faceted approach that involves upgrades to hardware as well as optimizing software and fixing bugs. Unfortunately if you are waiting for gameplay in a 3000 man fleet battle to approach that of a 10 man skirmish you'll be waiting a long time. My idea approaches the issue of lag by adapting to it, rather than fighting against it.

In a nutshell, I believe when the server is having trouble dealing with requests and lag is taking hold, the whole game should slow down, as in slow motion, or "bullet time", until it clears up again.

Here are a few reasons myself and others think this will be a good idea.

  1. When lag takes hold, you have to remember this is how the game is playing anyway. Requests from players are held in a queue, and you have to wait a long time for your guns to activate, or to target something, or warp out. At the moment the game is not designed to display it properly in the front end, so although you can 'feel' the lag, it appears as though everything should be working. My idea just makes it more visible and therefore usable.


  2. It would give reinforcements a chance to arrive to the actual battle rather than at a standoff. This is what we all want when we are on the way and hear the targets being read out over voice comms.


  3. It would look really cool and give the opportunity for some nice fraps.


  4. The node would not crash any more, because it is taking everything at its own pace. It's like a teacher who is swamped with children saying "Alright I'll deal with you one at a time. It'll take a bit longer but at least you will all be sorted out" rather than "I'll deal with you all at once aaaarrrrrgghhhh" *brain explodes*


  5. it doesn't alter any mechanics for the game itself within the slow down scenario. This keeps it from encouraging metagame "So if we bring this many we can have X effect, we can use this!", since all it does is literally slow the game down if it gets to a lag situation. (thanks to Kabaal S'sylistha in post #2 for this one Smile)


  6. you could play it off fictionally as space-time distortion caused by a huge number of warp drives in one place, and because the communication channels aren't as jammed, it could actually lead to improved gameplay. Turn on the matrix music and slowly maneuver your interceptor between ships. (thanks Black Dranzer in post #3! Smile)


  7. Because the game feels like it's working properly (albiet slowly), the problem will not be compounded by players clicking many times on each command, which as we know adds even more commands to the list and creates even more lag.


By slowing the game down, the server will be given a chance to handle all the requests that have been piled on top of it. Where as before it would be struggling to complete them all in real time, with the physics engine breaking, and missing node 'heartbeats' resulting in player disconncetions, this way it will be able to complete them all successfully at a pace it can handle. Most importantly players will be able to play the game, albiet slowly, rather than being unable to play at all.

Remember the most important part of this suggestion is, this slow down would only happen in a situation that would otherwise be unplayable due to lag. So a useless critique would be "nah that'd be annoying as hell if everything was all slow" because the alternative would be the game-breaking, server-crashing lag we are all used to. It's kinda making the best of a bad situation.

Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.11.28 05:25:00 - [2]
 

Fight lag with...lag?

This seems too logical. There has to be something wrong with it.

Unfortunately, it makes sense and is the only thing I can see compensating for lag. There's none of the silly mechanics trying to influence numbers.

The only issue really is the one you pointed out about reinforcements technically having more time to arrive. It also gives CCP time for node reinforcement (not sure if they can do this on the fly, but I understand it's some possibility), and it doesn't alter any mechanics for the game itself within the slow down scenario. This keeps it from encouraging metagame "So if we bring this many we can have X effect, we can use this!", since all it does is literally slow the game down if it gets to a lag situation.

Would +2 this if I could. A lag fix that isn't a stealth "force people to X fleet size" thread, and would do what it intends with acceptable (in my view) consequences. Holy crabcakes.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.28 06:14:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 28/11/2010 06:24:45
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6380/wellactually.gif

Best of all, you could play it off fictionally as space-time distortion caused by a huge number of warp drives in one place, and because the communication channels aren't as jammed, it could actually lead to improved gameplay. Turn on the matrix music and slowly maneuver your interceptor between ships. I ****ing love it.

Image changed to link. Navigator

Halione
Posted - 2010.11.28 06:21:00 - [4]
 

crazy but it just might work, its worth a shot no?

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 06:32:00 - [5]
 

I.. would rather it wasnt needed. but support it.

Tyber Zaan
Posted - 2010.11.28 09:23:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 28/11/2010 06:24:45
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6380/wellactually.gif



Sums up my reaction perfectly.

Supported.

Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.11.28 10:03:00 - [7]
 

Came back to see the image. Like above post, almost like someone put a camera in my room while I commented.

Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
Posted - 2010.11.28 10:22:00 - [8]
 

i... am having trouble seeign the flaws here. hmm.

hired goon
Posted - 2010.11.28 11:35:00 - [9]
 

Thanks for the support and ideas guys. I hope you don't mind but I added two of your ideas to my main post and cleaned the whole thing up to make it a bit easier to read. If you don't want your ideas in the OP I apologize, just send me a msg and I'll take em out ASAP! But thanks for your excellent input! Very Happy

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.28 13:15:00 - [10]
 

I'd love for this to be tested on Singularity :)

Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
Posted - 2010.11.28 13:41:00 - [11]
 

Well time is only some subjectiv illusion, if it helps playing the game better, i support this.
Why not, sounds logical. And time is relativ, so why not relativ to server lag ?

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.28 13:47:00 - [12]
 


Its making too much sense (head explodes).

Acastus Vasyl
Posted - 2010.11.28 14:08:00 - [13]
 

Shocked Very Happy

Icewinder
Posted - 2010.11.28 14:11:00 - [14]
 

Why didn't someone think of this before?

Cpt Hawkes
Posted - 2010.11.28 14:15:00 - [15]
 

This would be AWESOME

Jahpahjay
Posted - 2010.11.28 16:06:00 - [16]
 

Totally supported. Fantastic idea mate! Surprised

Stig Sterling
Posted - 2010.11.28 16:41:00 - [17]
 

CCP should hire the OP and instantly promote him.

I love this!

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.28 16:53:00 - [18]
 


Biocross
Posted - 2010.11.28 16:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 28/11/2010 06:24:45
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6380/wellactually.gif




Pic says it all.

Xynthiar
Gallente
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.11.28 17:17:00 - [20]
 


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.28 17:41:00 - [21]
 

This seems like too obvious an approach for CCP not to have considered it already. But if they have, and rejected it on the grounds that the playerbase wouldn't tolerate it, then I'll add my voice to the "NO, DO IT" chorus.

AtlantisX
Posted - 2010.11.28 17:47:00 - [22]
 

I saw this on an IAMA that one of the devs did on reddit a couple of weeks back:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e55qs/iama_programmer_fixing_the_lag_in_eve_online_amaa/c15eof4

Seems this is somthing they want to do, but only after every last drop of performance is pulled out of the servers.

Regardless, a most excellent idea.

Lord's Servant
Amarr
Hard Rock Mining Co.
The Jagged Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.28 18:21:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Lord''s Servant on 28/11/2010 18:21:10
**** YEAH!!!!

There are, however, 2-fold issues with this.

1.) With no "lag" (ie lost cycles, improperly applied dps), on the scale that alliances are able to deploy caps/supercaps, we're gonna see some SCARY dps applied. caps/supers instapopping every single cycle anyone? :)

2.) I can see alpha getting pretty scary

3.) goodbye armor RR, we can't use you anymore as you take an ENTIRE cycle to give me HP, hello shields, instant HP the second I take dmg ftw.... :)

Conclusion: PL/Other entities who create new tactics will all start flying around in shield buffered alpha ships like machari.....oh wait...they already do Laughing

nvm then....Im all for it as the game will become moar playable YARRRR!!

-Lord's Servant

PS-EDIT I forgot to check support lolz

Wu Jiaqiu
Minmatar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.11.28 21:28:00 - [24]
 

YES. THIS. WOULD. BE. AWESOME.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2010.11.28 21:41:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 28/11/2010 21:45:19
I raised this idea in a thread in response to a presentation CCP posted a few months ago, and a dev confirmed that they'd at least thought about it.

Found it.

Originally by: CCP Warlock
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
In the presentation, a figure of 1 message per second is mentioned. How far can this be reduced while maintaining an acceptable game experience? During a fleet engagement, a 99% chance of 0.1/s probably beats an erratic 1/s occasionally dropping to 0.01/s, so has anyone looked into a possible trade-off here?


That is indeed something we're thinking about.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2010.11.28 22:03:00 - [26]
 

NeutralNeutralNeutralNeutralNeutral

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.28 22:44:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 28/11/2010 22:47:24
Originally by: Lord's Servant
Edited by: Lord''s Servant on 28/11/2010 18:21:10
**** YEAH!!!!

There are, however, 2-fold issues with this.

1.) With no "lag" (ie lost cycles, improperly applied dps), on the scale that alliances are able to deploy caps/supercaps, we're gonna see some SCARY dps applied. caps/supers instapopping every single cycle anyone? :)

2.) I can see alpha getting pretty scary

3.) goodbye armor RR, we can't use you anymore as you take an ENTIRE cycle to give me HP, hello shields, instant HP the second I take dmg ftw.... :)

Conclusion: PL/Other entities who create new tactics will all start flying around in shield buffered alpha ships like machari.....oh wait...they already do Laughing

nvm then....Im all for it as the game will become moar playable YARRRR!!

-Lord's Servant

PS-EDIT I forgot to check support lolz


with everything slowed down, u would have more time to react and start transversing since they'll lock slower in real time anyway. and since it's only the game speed that slows down, your transversal will remain the same 'cause even the turrets will move and track in slow motion. pretty much nothing that can happen in slow motion wouldn't happen at normal speed anyway. except for smarter decisions 'cause u'd have even more time to assess the situation and make your moves more strategically, kinda like speed chess, only even the pawns can move and think on their own. Smile

klyeme
The Mind's Eye
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:05:00 - [28]
 

I see 1 large problem in this.

While time for the people fighting would slow down, other areas left in the game wouldn't. This would allow large numbers of support ships to come to the aid of the fleet in that system, inducing a metagame "slow down the system so our reinforcements have something to reinforce when they get there."

The only solution I can see is to make the gates and cynos only allow jumps out of the system when the system goes into this state.


Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer

Posted - 2010.11.28 23:24:00 - [29]
 


GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:36:00 - [30]
 

this is suuuch an epic idea! nice work on thinking out the box!

trying to fix lag by tech and speed has an achilles heel in the form of a generalised version of 'the peter principle'...

basically whatever ccp does to create server headroom for fleetfights the player base will inevitably eat it up with more players! at least this will help to keep the game functional and playable untill ccp can roll in the extra computing muscle to kick the fight up a gear or two!

+1 and another from my alt!


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