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blankseplocked US Gov't attacking piracy...again.
 
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Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.11.28 18:37:00 - [91]
 

Why do you women do this?

I mean what good would it do and how does it benefit you from arguing on the internet (or RL for that matter), the effort put into convincing (and failing because everyone is so ******ed) another person that 'you are right' should be used on something else.

State your opinion, click reply, then go, if a person is against your rules the chances of him / her being convinced that you are right are slim and even if you did convince him he / she would never admit it.

I have new respect for North Korea, freedom is something that clearly shouldnt be given to everyone Rolling Eyes

Wikileaks, stealing or not? Even though they exploit data (for example they will show a pic of an apple on the floor and claim NATO was the cause of the apple being on the floor).

How do you feel about them?

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.28 18:55:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Kalle Demos
Why do you women do this?

I mean what good would it do and how does it benefit you from arguing on the internet (or RL for that matter), the effort put into convincing (and failing because everyone is so ******ed) another person that 'you are right' should be used on something else.

State your opinion, click reply, then go, if a person is against your rules the chances of him / her being convinced that you are right are slim and even if you did convince him he / she would never admit it.

I have new respect for North Korea, freedom is something that clearly shouldnt be given to everyone Rolling Eyes

Wikileaks, stealing or not? Even though they exploit data (for example they will show a pic of an apple on the floor and claim NATO was the cause of the apple being on the floor).

How do you feel about them?


yes but then Apple Computer will sue NATO and Wikileaks for the use of the image of the apple....(Don't think they are IP crazy, they once tried to sue NYC over the imagery used in their "Big Apple" adverts for tourism)

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:27:00 - [93]
 

While the same country uses for copyright enforcement the same state apparatus that was originally intended for brown people who like to blow white people up because white people let women read and wear bikinis (19 men in caves they say), they are carrying our a DDOS on Wikileaks.

If anyone here ever tried a DDOS attack on any website you would go down for more prison time than if you molested a kid.

It's fun watching the leviathan state ripping at throats while it goes down. America is the new Soviet, the new National Socialist Germany, and everything the founders warned against. Let this be a lesson to the rest of you.

Next time you have a fellow countryman who comes back from the US, perhaps from schooling here, talking it up about how great America is for our style of "democracy", you should know better now, seeing the end results. We don't have a Adolf, or a Stalin, or a Ill, or a Mao. We have millions of people like them who vote though. So when that friend or neighbor who has been here wants to make your country like ours, put that person in a sack and hit them with little clubs.


So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:48:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: So Sensational on 28/11/2010 19:54:35

Originally by: Wild Rho

And yes, you said some people "probably" are ok with being pirated hence being asked to show some evidence for that (quote from your post on the second page):

A misunderstanding then, you see at first we were talking about the pride that you feel when doing quality work, he then brings up said idea (The one you quoted). I then assume that this idea includes the concept that we were actually discussing, the pride part. Hence the edit, to clarify that he was still talking about that and not throwing out a completely random question not relevant to anything I had said.

Originally by: Wild Rho
I can understand someone downloading something they'll never be able to purchase due to there being no other way to obtain it but not being able to afford it is no excuse.

And they're not interchangeable? Not being able to pay for something means there's no other legal way to obtain it.

Originally by: Wild Rho

No the law is pretty clear in this. Piracy is illegal no matter what the reason you chose to give or whether you agree with it. That said out of the many crimes in the world it's hardly the worst.


Yeah I was just making sure, in a semi-serious manner, that the CIA doesn't bash down my door.

Originally by: Wild Rho
Of course I'm going to shout evidence, the situation described is nice but has that actually happened to anyone? And yes, piracy can give free advertising, I won't deny it but if it doesn't translate into an income the producers can use to keep going it doesn't matter.

Very well, that's the difference between me and you then. I guess I can simply accept an argument that makes sense to me, not as an absolute truth but enough to concede that (Had I been the one making the argument) "when you download the creators gain nothing, you gain something" isn't necessarily true.
Originally by: Kalle Demos
Why do you women do this?

I mean what good would it do and how does it benefit you from arguing on the internet (or RL for that matter), the effort put into convincing (and failing because everyone is so ******ed) another person that 'you are right' should be used on something else.


Because it's fun?

Creepy CousinRoger
Posted - 2010.11.29 01:23:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Creepy CousinRoger
Originally by: Blane Xero
Torrent is not Synonymous with Piracy, Illegal or Crime. Go educate yourself.

Brb, adding ... The Pirate Bay ...



Oh irony Razz
TPB is the only website to ever produce hard statistics (During their trial) about the illegal:legal ratio of torrents. I seem to recall over half, close to 70%? of their torrents are legal.

Game Over, Try Again?

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Bloop~


Of course they don't doctor those numbers to fight their lawsuits Razz

Statistics can be easily made up, 63% of people know that.

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.29 01:38:00 - [96]
 

I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I took it.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only paper which comes from trees and water colour paints are not expensive so its not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws are just thing wealthy and corrupt people make so "illegal" is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for it anyway so me taking it didn't prevent me from buying it instead and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.29 02:01:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I took it.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only paper which comes from trees and water colour paints are not expensive so its not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws are just thing wealthy and corrupt people make so "illegal" is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for it anyway so me taking it didn't prevent me from buying it instead and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.


Except in your scenario, the artist no longer has his painting. This is nothing like "Piracy" since nobody loses anything when someone downloads something. You cannot lose "Potential Profit" anymore than anyone who doesn't win the lottery loses "Potential winnings".

There is a very specific difference between a "losing" something and "not gaining" something. And my personal opinion is that unless something has been lost to someone, no real "Theft" has occurred. By complaining about not gaining something and calling it theft, companies only reveal their false sense of entitlement. Entitlement they have [rarely] earned.

I find it funny that certain companies like EA are extremely vocal against piracy, whereas companies like Valve have very little issue with it.

Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 03:21:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I took it.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only paper which comes from trees and water colour paints are not expensive so its not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws are just thing wealthy and corrupt people make so "illegal" is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for it anyway so me taking it didn't prevent me from buying it instead and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.

Piracy is more like you walking into the store, making a perfect copy of a painting for yourself, and leaving the artist with the original to sell to someone else. The artist loses nothing but your service.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:14:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I made a perfect replica at no expense to the artist.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only imaginary property, a concept, it's not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws aren't always perfect and up to date, it is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for everything I perfectly replicate anyway but me taking it inspired me to possibly buy some paintings from an artist I would've never had the pleasure of knowing and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.

Fixed.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.29 13:14:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I stood and looked at it a while so I would remember what it looked like.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only imaginary property, a concept, it's not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws aren't always perfect and up to date, it is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for every idea which enters my head anyway but my thinking about it inspired me to possibly buy some paintings from an artist I would've never had the pleasure of knowing and now I have the memory of this artists beautiful painting and I can tell other people about it.

Fixed.
Future-proofed. I for one welcome our upcoming copyright overlords.

Isaac Apylon
Lobster Adoption Agency
Posted - 2010.11.29 18:35:00 - [101]
 

Came to topic expecting US snipers taking out Somalians at sea. Left disappointed.

Cpt Placeholder
Posted - 2010.11.29 18:59:00 - [102]
 

Copyright infringement =/= theft.
The current copyright laws are harmful to their intended purpose.
"Piracy" has served those purposes better and people can still make **** loads of cash even with the existence of "piracy".

Cikulisuy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.11.29 19:10:00 - [103]
 

piracy is killing music ;posts record profits;

piracy is killing movies ;avatar earns billions in a week;

mix tapes are going to kill music!

etc

(it's all total bull****)

Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.11.29 21:29:00 - [104]
 

I see pirated videogames as more of an extended demo. If I like it, I'll go out and buy it.

Tora Nevaal
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:15:00 - [105]
 

By illegally downloading software I helped a terrorist get a fake passport.
I helped a suicide bomber blow up a market.
I helped get a politician assassinated.

Hey, it's my body....

But seriously, yes I ILLEGALLY download software. It's wrong and I know it and I do it anyways. Why? Not because I can't afford it, but because I am so f-ing fed up with these draconian DRM programs that slow down my computer and destroy my disk drive. Now every time I want to play a game I have to type in the serial, have the cd in the drive, activate it online, have a full time internet connection to play single player, can only install the game 4 times for the rest of my life, be within 12 feet of my computer and send in my finger prints, blood sample and DNA. Screw that. I download the game and never have to worry about it again.

Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:19:00 - [106]
 

Welcome to the "cloud."

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:31:00 - [107]
 

I only get things when they're otherwise unobtainable by any other legal means like translated games from japan that will never get published here or emulated games no longer in production or playbility (PS1 PS2 games I cannot enjoy on the ps3 curse you sony!)

And thanks to netflix i can now watch movies or videos I do or do not want to buy.

But there are pirates who only go out to steal media then resell it as thier own to profit.
These arent the same folks as free media groupies these are folks trying to sell you the same product with only them getting money instead of the companies that worked hard originally to make them.

Free media groupies are just folks who wanna enjoy without overpaying the gouging some companies are quickly turning to lately though.

This being a four way fight makes it entirely unfair to the most legitamate of the four sides though the customer as they have to not only suffer the cost of increased protection but having to deal with the imprisioned media and the methoods they go out of the way to deal with them.

If netflix starts going to an accounter ownership system similar to steam though one can only imagine how much more enjoyable the media experince can be for people.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:28:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Zagdul on 30/11/2010 01:58:10
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Quote:
Every download is a lost sale

Every download is free advertising.


Why buy it when you have it already?
This is actually how I operate.

I never buy first, only in the food industry are you forced buy before try. If you're unsatisfied with the product, normally you're able to bring it to management and they'll help you by giving you the food on the house or a coupon to come back at another time. With music/games/movies... you're forced to buy and rarely, if ever are you able to return if you are unhappy.

The worst part about the gaming industry is the new DRM they enforce on everything. I have the DVD's of every film I've enjoyed. I have hundreds. Every game I own I purchased. Same goes for music, just I don't keep CD's where instead I rip it all to my hard drive so when the CD gets scratched, I've got a backup of what I paid for. However, most of the music I've purchased, DVD's I've bought and games I've owned were downloaded via the web first without purchasing. Either a demo, or illegal methods, I tried before I was suckered into buying.

Someone earlier in this thread said something about reviews not being enough or it being a risk to purchase etc.. Are you aware that reviews in "the industry" are given based on the old "scratch your back scratch mine" etc.

Lets take games for example. A new console FPS is on it's way to the shelves, the company who produced this game also has a publisher ready to drop millions in advertising for said game. Now review sites live and survive off their banner time/sales so they need this money to stay alive. So, who do you think the publisher is going to pay the advertising money to? The site who gives the bad review or the one who accepts the money and bumps it up a notch? Whats my proof? My last job was running a review site. My income was based on publishers paying me for advertising space.

The entertainment industry are becoming more thieves than the people who pirate. An example is ICE as they just stole a domain name from a person who runs a forum and a search engine. His claim is that he is not hosting or providing the "stolen" or "pirated" material. Yet, the masses are screaming with their torches and pitchforks to burn this guy at the stake. Where was the warrant? When was the owner of the site's constitutional rights exercised?

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:33:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Zagdul on 30/11/2010 01:54:35
Edited by: Zagdul on 30/11/2010 01:53:38
Edited by: Zagdul on 30/11/2010 01:33:29
Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I took it.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only paper which comes from trees and water colour paints are not expensive so its not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws are just thing wealthy and corrupt people make so "illegal" is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for it anyway so me taking it didn't prevent me from buying it instead and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.
This is a poor analogy.

Here:

I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours in boxes, I liked one of the pictures displayed on the box but the actual picture was in the box. I asked the artist to remove the picture and let me look at the picture, but he said no. So when I got home, I Googled the artist, found an image larger than the one printed on the box online and purchased a print of it.


His print is now on my wall and I'm happy and he still got paid. I just wanted to look at what I was buying before I bought it.



By your logic.

Me going home and Googling the image then downloading a copy of it (via browser cache) I've just committed a crime and my ass should be hauled off to jail.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:35:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Zagdul

The entertainment industry are becoming more thieves than the people who pirate. An example is ICE as they just stole a domain name from a person who runs a forum and a search engine. His claim is that he is not hosting or providing the "stolen" or "pirated" material. Yet, the masses are screaming with their torches and pitchforks to burn this guy at the stake. Where was the warrant? When was the owner of the site's constitutional rights exercised?

Funny you should mention that: http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-background-dope-on-dhs-recent-seizure-of-domains/

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:50:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Zagdul

The entertainment industry are becoming more thieves than the people who pirate. An example is ICE as they just stole a domain name from a person who runs a forum and a search engine. His claim is that he is not hosting or providing the "stolen" or "pirated" material. Yet, the masses are screaming with their torches and pitchforks to burn this guy at the stake. Where was the warrant? When was the owner of the site's constitutional rights exercised?

Funny you should mention that: http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-background-dope-on-dhs-recent-seizure-of-domains/
Wow, the plot thickens.

I was just making a claim based off the links in the first post, the one you've provided shows proof that the owner of the torrent site was robbed of his domain.

This company just stole this guys name basically.

Help with an analogy on this one? A lot of people may not understand what domain hijacking is and why this dude was robbed.

I am usually someone who believes that some liberties should be left to governments... I'm one of those people who think everyone should have an ID where officials can check it's validity etc... However, I don't believe in theft which is what this company has done here.

I hope the guy takes this company to court and brings light to this.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.30 02:05:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Blane Xero on 30/11/2010 02:16:49
Originally by: Zagdul
Help with an analogy on this one?
The analogy I've been using to explain what's going on with the DNS Seizures is something like this;

Tourist [Internet Browser] asks locals [Domain-Name-System servers] for directions to his destination [IP address of domain]. Now, when a domain is Seized, the locals are being forced [By THE LAW!] to lie and give false directions.

So, I guess, the dude is being robbed because;

Tourists asks locals for directions to Burger King, locals instead give him directions to a McDonalds which stole all his Burger king branding.

His website [Burger King] is being redirected to a false website [McDonalds], meaning he likely loses Ad Revenue [Sales], and any money he spent to purchase his Domain name [Branding].


Something like that anyway.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.30 02:26:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Something like that anyway.
This analogy is very good, but would be better if it involved one or more cars.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.30 02:31:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Blane Xero
Something like that anyway.
This analogy is very good, but would be better if it involved one or more cars.


In that case;

A man [Internet Browser] is looking to buy a new car. He asks the dealer [DNS Server] to show him a Porsche [Website]. The dealer brings out a BMW [False Website] with all of the Porsche branding on it [Domain name].


Better? Wink

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.30 02:41:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Better? Wink
Perfect.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.11.30 05:21:00 - [116]
 


Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.30 06:22:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Lady Skank
I was walking around my town center last week and there was an artist with a small store and some stands with some hand painted water colours on display, I liked one of the pictures but he was asking to much for it and I didn't have the money to pay so when he was busy with a customer I made a perfect replica at no expense to the artist.

I don't feel bad about it because it was only imaginary property, a concept, it's not really immoral and the law doesn't matter because laws aren't always perfect and up to date, it is just relative and its not like I would have ever actually paid for everything I perfectly replicate anyway but me taking it inspired me to possibly buy some paintings from an artist I would've never had the pleasure of knowing and now I have this artists beautiful painting on my wall where other people can see it and appreciate it.

Feeling pretty good about what I had accomplished I decided I could do more so I made my own stall opposite the artists stall and made a pretty sign and called it the "painting bay" and then copied every single one of his paintings dozens of times over and then gave one away freely to anyone that wanted one, the artists stall is no longer there anymore though because people didn't buy enough of his paintings to earn him a living from his work so he had to get a job at Tescos

Fixed.


Fixed again.

Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente
United Mining And Distribution
Posted - 2010.11.30 08:23:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: So Sensational
Unless you disagree with IP rights, at which point it is no longer stealing.

I just wanted to say, this is the stupidest thing I've seen yet. It's like saying I don't agree that red light means stop, so it's not illegal if I just keep on driving. The law is the law until the law is changed, okay?

Alright, back to your bickering

ceaon
Posted - 2010.11.30 08:36:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 30/11/2010 08:51:55
they should arrest and put on jail all ppl that download movies and MP3, so the systems collapse and the anarchy begins i know you want that, in the darker corner of your soul you have this desire Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil



edit start using this dns http://dns.telecomix.org/

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.11.30 09:47:00 - [120]
 

relax people, turns out they cant actually do what they want to do Smile

here is a noob friendly guide if you are afraid your favourite sites will go down

You cant remove a site of the internet by deleting it from the dns servers (what they want to do).
That's like saying you cant call someone, because his number is not in the phone-book.

See the internet is a bit more user friendly, like the new phones, where you type in the name, not like the old phones, where you had to type in the number. What they want to do is remove the entries from the phone-book so when you enter the name there is no number, and you cant call Sad They can do this, because instead of each of us having our own phone-book, we all share the same one...kinda
Course if you know the number, you can simply type the number in manually, and still call.

To end the metaphor instead of typing "www.google.com" you will have to type in googles IP address. course google probably wont go down...

this shared phone-book is available here. type into the first field the name of the website, like "www.demonoid.com", and it will, like any other phone-book, give you the number "62.149.24.81". you can then paste this number into the browser and the same thing will happen as if you had entered www.demonoid.com

if you want to know more about this google DNS.

most people don't know about this, and once they eventually remove the sites from the "phone-book" most will be unable to reach them.
also, depending on how things workout, servers in other countries might update, so just the US would actually "lose" the entries.

Originally by: illford baker
a cold chapter for who? the lawless individuals who steal everything they want because of their sense of entitlement. i for one welcome law to the internet, can there be a golden age in a lawless world?


Yes but what gives the US the right to control who is and who is not in the dns? The main servers should be under UN control. Obama said he would hand the servers over to UN, but changed his mind.

Also, torrent sites, like www.piratebay.com aren't involved in piracy. they don't actually have any of the files we download. they are just a broker. you come to them, and say...I need this, and they tell you who has it, and you can get it from them. when somebody needs something you have, they will tell him, and he will download it from you. so we, are the ones that upload and download stuff, not trackers.
people get this impression they download stuff from piratebay, cause they download the torrent from piratebay. the torrent only included information about who has what you want, you then download stuff from them, and they from you. its a net and we all share. trackers just know who has what.

so you cant legally prosecute trackers, they have not, legally, done anything wrong, you can however prosecute people who upload and download stuff...but you aren't going to get much from your regular person.


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