open All Channels
seplocked Jita Park Speakers Corner
blankseplocked Dec 15 Learning SP rebate
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Alex Dua
Posted - 2010.11.27 21:45:00 - [1]
 

To whom it may concern:
This is my opinion on the Learning Skill SP rebate, and urgent request to CCP to do a slight change in the rebate formulas that will kick in on Dec. 14th. First of all I agree that this should be done since learning skills are viewed, by some, as one of the major parts of the steep learning curve thrown at new players. However CCP needs to seriously reconsider the rebate amount. I believe that anyone that has put in time for the learning skills was thinking long term, in terms of years, payback.
I believe that the base rebate should be a multiplier of the current points. Perhaps 1.2X currents SP? Assuming one has all LVL5 for learning, it actually takes longer to learn them in the old system then it would with the proposed fixed attributes. So assuming it takes 3 months to learn the skills using the old system, I guess it would take 2 months with the fixed attributes proposed. So we should receive the equivalent SP that we would receive for the 3 months of training time using the new system. I hope I am making this clear. I am not sure what the “fair” multiplier amount should be, my guess is 1.2.
On top of that we should receive a certain percentage bonus based on the total amount of current learning skill points. This is to offset the loss of the long term advantage over the people that would not or did not decide to train up the learning skills. So for example if someone had 1 million learning SP, they would get the 1.2 X 1mil + 1% of 1mil. So that would be 1,200,000+ 20,000 for a total rebate of 1,220,000 in refunded SP. If someone had 2 million that percentage should be 2%, and so on, up until 5mil and 5%. I would actually recommend having the percentage amounts higher, perhaps starting at 2% and jumping 2% for each 1mil. So at 5mil the percentage would be 10%. This whole idea behind the percentage bonus should be based on the fact that those that chose to learn these skills were doing so to have an advantage over those that didn’t, on a “long term” basis. By leveling the attribute playing field that advantage disappears, and I feel isn’t fair. The compensation percentage should perhaps be based on a 5 year outlook ? Perhaps 10?
Ok, I am being lazy here and not making charts and doing the hard number crunching to justify myself. But I think I do have some logic in the above requests. Anyone else agree? Think I am an idiot? But whatever you think I would hope someone at CCP will see some of my logic here. Thanks, -Alex Dua

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.28 12:23:00 - [2]
 

There will be no changes to the Dec 14th plan at this time. CCP has stated that they cannot make any changes and still do the QA work needed to make the Dec 14th release date.

I too wanted some tweaks.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2010.11.28 12:51:00 - [3]
 

Be smart spend your free sp on skills that are even slower than learning skills.
One of the skills I'll be training with those free sp, will be Infomorph Psychology. Some extra jump clones will be nice and I will save myself training one of the slowest skills there is. Leadership is another nice example. Anything with charisma is a good choice.

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.11.28 17:31:00 - [4]
 

you can spend an infinity of time making tweaks to make something perfect in your opinion, or you can get it done

personally i'm spending my points on low level skills 1-3 and it will be awesome

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.12.02 03:02:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Pesets on 02/12/2010 03:02:57
The OP is a mother-of-all wall-of-text, so i only skimmed over it.

First, your attributes after the change will be the same or higher than with learning skills, except possibly for the maxed out attribute with 5+5 learnings and +5 implants on top of that.

Second, after training a learning skill, you normally would have to wait until it saves you enough time to "pay for itself"; in case of training an advanced learning skill to 5 it's at least one year - however, since CCP is reimbursing the SP in the learning skills, it means you will break even right there. So even if you had 5+5 learning skills for less than a year, the whole time you had them you've been gaining extra SP.

That's of course assuming you fived the learnings you actually planned to use heavily, and not all of them just to have them all at 5. In which case it would have taken you over five years to just break even, and CCP is helping you by correcting your mistakes. Unless you actually planned to play for decades and max out every skill there is (in which case, yes, you're kinda screwed, a little bit).

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.12.02 06:12:00 - [6]
 

We've had the advantage of the learning skills we trained. We trained faster for the entire duration that we had the higher learning skills while others around us didn't.

Trying to rebase the learning skill rebate based on what we could have trained if the new attributes had been in effect since the game began would mean that all players would get an SP rebate regardless of whether they'd trained learning skills or not.

Going on to propose bonus SP refunded for people who had more SP invested in learning skills is plain ridiculous. You've had the advantage of those learning skills. You've trained more SP in the same time under the same rules as everyone else. On top of that you're getting all those SP invested in learning returned for you to spend on something else. If this is unfair to anyone, it's only to those people who didn't train their learning skills to 5/5.

Suggesting that those people who trained 5/5 skills should get back far more SP than they invested is asking for two bites of the cherry. It is nonsense.

Feyleaf
Posted - 2010.12.03 09:07:00 - [7]
 

<3 ccp.
best thing since rig changes!

KaiserSoze434
Posted - 2010.12.07 01:49:00 - [8]
 

I don't think you bothered to think this through much. Plus wall of text. If everyone gets put on a level playing field AND you get your learning skill sp refunded AND you actually got the effect from the learning skills while they were active you have already received an advantage over any newer player than yourself. Even though your investment of sp did not yield precisely the amonut of gain you intended at the time you made it there is no dispute that the older player came out ahead on the deal. By your logic every game mechanic change should come with some sort of shiny for older players who were used to the pre-nerf. I didn't train rockets because they sucked, but CCP just fixed them. I would have made different choices if I'd known they would change and newer players can just train rockets early and thats not fair. This kind of argument goes on forever and never ends. The game changed for the good of the total player base, not one segment, and even that one segment comes out WAY ahead.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.07 04:59:00 - [9]
 

Woah wait. There's a debate?

I thought it was just a dozen or so players who are angry that it's gone while everyone else is rejoicing its departure.

Pretty much every conceivable argument these dozen players have made all have been defeated with reason and common sense. So what is there left to debate?

My Postman
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:22:00 - [10]
 

Whatever you say.

I will slow down in skilling up (72 sp/hr).

AND I WANT MY 25m(?) ISKIES BACK FOR THE SKILLBOOKS. I don´t care if Dr. E. gets a stroke when inserting whatsoever trillion iskies into the game.

See you at the courts.

Mayhem Mugu
Posted - 2010.12.14 00:01:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Mayhem Mugu on 14/12/2010 00:10:56
Originally by: Mara Rinn

Suggesting that those people who trained 5/5 skills should get back far more SP than they invested is asking for two bites of the cherry. It is nonsense.



Actually if you think about it, everyone who did not max out learning skills gets 2 bites at the cherry.

1 bite = getting back the skill points
2 bite = getting faster learning times.

Those of us that maxed learning skills only get 1 bite

1 bite = getting back the skill points

then we get a little kick in the nuts because we will actually now train slower

edit was to insert a = sign i missed

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.12.14 03:49:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Mayhem Mugu
Actually if you think about it, everyone who did not max out learning skills gets 2 bites at the cherry.

1 bite = getting back the skill points
2 bite = getting faster learning times.

Those of us that maxed learning skills only get 1 bite

1 bite = getting back the skill points


Those of us who trained heavily into learning skills already took one bite of the cherry by having faster training times for the last few years. We're getting a second bite by getting the SP invested in learning back to invest in something else now.

Now the only differentiator will be attribute implants. Once those are gone, there will be no need to fear PvP since we won't be losing training time while in non-implanted clones.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Alex Dua
To whom it may concern:.

HTFU
Originally by: My Postman
I will slow down in skilling up (72 sp/hr).

HTFU
Originally by: Mayhem Mugu
Actually if you think about it, everyone who did not max out learning skills gets 2 bites at the cherry.

Your really bad @ maths, aren't you? HTFU!


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only