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blankseplocked NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Support free choice and save our learning skills!!!!
 
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Bart Starr
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:37:00 - [1]
 

What the hell?
This is ****ing bull****.
Why are we dumbing down the game even further for whiners.

"WAAHH, why oh why, CCP, do I have to do learning skills when they don't DO anything."

They increase your learning speed, you dumb ****s. You have the choice of investing time in them early and reap long term benefits - or you choose to start learning something else and have more abilities up front, and fade in the stretch.

Some of the learning skills could have been woven into the prerequisite tree of various T2 mods and ships to make them more 'relevant' - similar to how Graviton Physics is required for maximizing your HIC.

But removing them and just removes game choices and forces everyone to learn at the same pace. Now its implants or no implants, and the gamers plod forward in their feedlots like stupid cattle. Rolling Eyes

Unnecessary comment removed. Zymurgist

Jenny Jihad
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:39:00 - [2]
 

Cookie Bart! Cookie! Look over there !

<~~~

Herr Wilkus
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:40:00 - [3]
 

Right on. I endorse and/or support this thread. CCP needs to wake up and realize that choices are good.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:40:00 - [4]
 

this is why an IQ test should be taken before being able to play eve.
learning skills are not Optional, you train them to a decent ammount or your training speed is cut severly, not there is no choice, but you got your remap, and what your going to do in eve career.

Strrog
Caldari
Zero Excavations
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:43:00 - [5]
 

Main reason is that learning skill was, is and will be a big turn off for new players, it rbought nothing more then frustration and cut down your eagerness when you start few weeks and would like to do something more productive then sitting in a station and possibly chatting in local... trust me there are way too many other skills noobs need to deal with XD.

Klatho Cron
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:44:00 - [6]
 

This is the most ****ed up descision since i entered the game 2.5 years ago.
Until today you cpp, were heroes in the game industry to me. I lost the faith in you.

Gone are the times in which planning, organisation and dedication to a long term plan gave those an advantage over the lazy and impatient ones. Where sacrificing the moment would give you the laugh later on.

A guy who doesnt play eve knows **** about learnings. So its impossible that someone stays away from this game cause of that. Every new player who, after recognizing and understanding the learnings, quit the game because of that, wasnt worth it anyway. This is true and you all know it.

Shame on you ccp. That was one hell of a wrong descision. But im pretty sure YOU wont regret it.

Crying or Very sad

My ****ing face the day i realized that your goal is not to create a better game anymore but to make more money.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:46:00 - [7]
 

Having to train learning skills is nothing but forced labor. It's like you have to live two months in a concentration camp before you get to play the game.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Klatho Cron
This is the most ****ed up descision since i entered the game 2.5 years ago.
Until today you cpp, were heroes in the game industry to me. I lost the faith in you.

Gone are the times in which planning, organisation and dedication to a long term plan gave those an advantage over the lazy and impatient ones. Where sacrificing the moment would give you the laugh later on.

A guy who doesnt play eve knows **** about learnings. So its impossible that someone stays away from this game cause of that. Every new player who, after recognizing and understanding the learnings, quit the game because of that, wasnt worth it anyway. This is true and you all know it.

Shame on you ccp. That was one hell of a wrong descision. But im pretty sure YOU wont regret it.

Crying or Very sad

My ****ing face the day i realized that your goal is not to create a better game anymore but to make more money.


Omg U mad!

Plz don't forget to contract me your stuff before you leave for WOW.

Also: A better game by station spinning? 2/10, too obvious.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:59:00 - [9]
 

I support free choice, which is why the learning skills had to go.

A choice where one alternative is completely ******ed is not a choice.

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:00:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 08:01:41
Originally by: Bart Starr
What the hell?
This is ****ing bull****.
Why are we dumbing down the game even further for whiners.

Now its implants or no implants, and the gamers plod forward in their feedlots like stupid cattle. Must be a lot of pro-Obama types calling the shots at CCP for something idiotic like this to happen.

Now who's whining here? Rolling Eyes

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:01:00 - [11]
 

Quote:
You have the choice of investing time in them early and reap long term benefits - or you choose to start learning something else and have more abilities up front, and fade in the stretch.


So basically, I have the choice of either ****ing myself in the ass in the long term, or not ****ing myself in the ass in the long term.

****, guys. I'm going to need some graphs to help me figure this out.

Herr Wilkus
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Tippia
I support free choice, which is why the learning skills had to go.

A choice where one alternative is completely ******ed is not a choice.


Nonsense. Perhaps a noob decided to train up Interceptors first, rather than investing in Learning skills up front. In his shiny new Interceptor, his piloting and daring is noticed by a large 0.0 Alliance and his Eve career takes off, leading to fame and fortune.

Alternatively, he could have spent three weeks training learning skills first, and ends up a mindless PVE-oriented carebear Raven-drone, who sells PLEX on the side. Eventually he gets ganked by ninjas, loses it all and he rage-quits.

Its the motha****ing butterfly effect!!!

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:18:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Originally by: Tippia
I support free choice, which is why the learning skills had to go.

A choice where one alternative is completely ******ed is not a choice.


Nonsense. Perhaps a noob decided to train up Interceptors first, rather than investing in Learning skills up front. In his shiny new Interceptor, his piloting and daring is noticed by a large 0.0 Alliance and his Eve career takes off, leading to fame and fortune.

Alternatively, he could have spent three weeks training learning skills first, and ends up a mindless PVE-oriented carebear Raven-drone, who sells PLEX on the side. Eventually he gets ganked by ninjas, loses it all and he rage-quits.

Its the motha****ing butterfly effect!!!


Buying all the learning skills books costs about 25 million.

From the blog, refunding all the learning books would insert 16 trillion isk into the economy.

16 trillion divided by 25 million is 640 thousand.

There are approximately 640 thousand characters with learning skills.

Last I checked, Eve has about 300 thousand subscribers.

Hmm.

Billy Stevens
Caldari
Psykotic Meat
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:18:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Billy Stevens on 26/11/2010 08:20:51
Quit eve if you dont like the changes :P

EDIT:

Originally by: Black Dranzer

Buying all the learning skills books costs about 25 million.

From the blog, refunding all the learning books would insert 16 trillion isk into the economy.

16 trillion divided by 25 million is 640 thousand.

There are approximately 640 thousand characters with learning skills.

Last I checked, Eve has about 300 thousand subscribers.

Hmm.


Dont forget that there are also 3 character slots for each account/subscriber!

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:23:00 - [15]
 

Y'all capsuleers are posting in a troll thread.

Alkahpwn
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:26:00 - [16]
 

Think about this:

If you trained all your Learning skills (even the 3x ones) you would have put 5,376,000 (5 Mil Skill points) into it.
CCP is offering a 2Mil skill point "gift" WTF? Looks like they are about 3Mil+ shy. I call that a pretty bad return on your investment.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Alkahpwn
Think about this:
Why? It's not like it's accurate.
Quote:
If you trained all your Learning skills (even the 3x ones) you would have put 5,376,000 (5 Mil Skill points) into it.
CCP is offering a 2Mil skill point "gift"
No. In that case, they're offering a 5M SP gift.

alittlebirdy
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:35:00 - [18]
 

Funny as I know people who, yep, did not do learning skills... it is a CHOICE... spend the time now to train, or do another skill first, etc etc... eve = dumb game...

Just go to world of tanks guys... I'd say 1/2 of it is eve players...

Screw the lagged out blobs. 30vs30 is the fun small gang pvp eve does not have.

Merth Righter
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:37:00 - [19]
 

Can you contract me your stuff before you leave?

Seriously, you seem to be incapable of seeing this from another perspective.
You might as wel leave if you won't change your mind.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2010.11.26 08:43:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Bart Starr

Now its implants or no implants, and the gamers plod forward in their feedlots like stupid cattle.



One word. remaps.


This also wasn't wholly CCP's decision either, they had several meetings with the CSM regarding this and the CSM members approved of it.

If you don't like the views of the CSM members then you shoulda voted. If you did vote and the candidate that supported your values didn't get in, then it proves that you and the others that shares those views are a minority. And if your candidate DID get in, he/she and any other CSM members that shared your view were still considered a minority when it came to the meeting they had with CCP that resulted in this change.

You don't matter, so you might as well give me your stuff on your way out. Either that or HTFU.
Good day sir.

Political commentary removed. Zymurgist

Alkahpwn
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:16:00 - [21]
 

I stand corrected. All skill points are being re-imbersed.
Sry folks, I was wrong.


Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Tippia
I support free choice, which is why the learning skills had to go.

A choice where one alternative is completely ******ed is not a choice.
Well, I tend to agree with you here, but even though spending the first month training only learning skills sounds ******ed, the reality is some people did choose to do it, so perhaps the choice shouldn't have been removed...

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:37:00 - [23]
 

I think from now on I'll reply to those threads in the following way, as everything else has been said/posted/quoted to hell an back anyway:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Razz

Khanaris Asgarth
Eternium Industries
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:39:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Having to train learning skills is nothing but forced labor. It's like you have to live two months in a concentration camp before you get to play the game.


This. Its one less hurdle for new players to have to face when starting. The way they are removing them is one of their best thought out ideas I've seen of late.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
even though spending the first month training only learning skills sounds ******ed, the reality is some people did choose to do it, so perhaps the choice shouldn't have been removed...

I know, right? With the amount people complained, you'd almost think there was some kind of clear-cut objective benefit to spending your first month training learning skills.

CommmanderInChief
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:58:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: CommmanderInChief on 26/11/2010 10:00:34
i sort of agree. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS. You are not forced to! Its only to make your training time quicker.
Infact its the eve community that tell people to train learning skills when they start. Not the game.

And who says this is what puts ppl off. Thats total rubbish

The reason newbies get turned of is because of one actually gaving to train skills full stop, the crazy risk vs reward and the harshness of the game
I remember when i first started, all i wanted was a raven. After months of grinding missions, i finally got my raven, only to get it insta poppedm when they only had fly at 15km. I was totally gutted. So there i was back to the start again! no isk, nothing. THIS IS THE PROBLEM!
Getting killed in hisec ****ed people off. The cost of ships are crazy compared to how much is you can make when your a new player! then you have to train hundred skills to use one mod effectively. This is the problem for new players. Its a very very harsh game for new players simple as. thats what drives new players away. This is why Wake up and smell the coffee!!

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.26 10:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/11/2010 10:05:07
Originally by: CommmanderInChief
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS. You are not forced to! Its only to make your training time quicker.
Infact its the eve community that tell people to train learning skills when they start. Not the game.

And who says this is what puts ppl off. Thats total rubbish.

Not if you read some people's experiences with friends they tried to bring to EVE.

And no learning skills = 8 million SP a year, with learning skills ~ 24 million SP, which means trice the number of skills, ships you can fly. How's that not mandatory?

If the harshness of the game scared people off, that's fine by me, it will not change and EVE doesn't change what that's concerned. If it was 2-3 months of senseless learning skills, then it was a total waste of potential players.
Good we're rid of them, thank heavens! And also 3.8 million SP for me to redistribute, even without reimbursement I'd have been happy! Razz

Mistress Lea
Posted - 2010.11.26 10:03:00 - [28]
 

Okay, everyone done whining? Yes? Good!

I believe this is the same crowd that chants: "listen more to the playerbase CCP!!"
Now, how many times has the phrase: "remove learningskills!!!" been used in topics where it was not relevant? Now CCP listens and everyone starts to whine again :P hilarious!!!

Here are some options:
1. Accept the new stuff and stfu
or
2. Quit and let the others who don't care keep playing.

This game is not about elitists, its about a game. If you want to be in a game with eletists, go somewhere else or stfu.

kthnxbye ^^

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.26 10:05:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
I know, right? With the amount people complained, you'd almost think there was some kind of clear-cut long-term benefit to spending your first month training learning skills.
FYP

CommmanderInChief
Posted - 2010.11.26 10:22:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: CommmanderInChief
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS. You are not forced to! Its only to make your training time quicker.
Infact its the eve community that tell people to train learning skills when they start. Not the game.

And who says this is what puts ppl off. Thats total rubbish.

Not if you read some people's experiences with friends they tried to bring to EVE.

And no learning skills = 8 million SP a year, with learning skills ~ 24 million SP, which means trice the number of skills, ships you can fly. How's that not mandatory?

Good we're rid of them, thank heavens! And also 3.8 million SP for me to redistribute, even without reimbursement I'd have been happy! Razz


I dont diagree with you at all. Im just saying that you have a choice, train or dont train. But to be honest why have them in the first place? All it is is a mechnism to increase your game time really, thats what MMOs do.

However just giving new players more SP at the start, isnt going to make a difference. Its the whole training thing thats the problem. There is no point allowing new players easier ways to get a ship, because its so easy to lose it. Theere is so much to this game that, you need at least a year to realy understand all the game mechanics to survive. New players want to be safe and be able to learn the game. But when some vet comes over in hisec and and one shots them, cos they can. Well do you really thinnk that they want to stay?? or course not. Other MMOS allow you to only play with ppl on your level, eve allows more experienced players to happily attack new players. Along with everything else this causes people to leave the game. You will only get a niche set of players that play for along time.

Also veterans cant complain either, (im a vet) but i remember when we only had like 8k players online, you had more opportunities to grow, T2 bpos all that stuff. And again thats another problem Alliances of old are now so entrenched and make so much isk that they now control everything. New players cannot get to that level anymore, because large alliance will just remove them so easily. Even if we make more space the big alliances just take it. So your not even giving chances to new players to get into 0.0 on their own.

I still believe there should be separate eve instances. Maybe training grounds server,so you stay on their up to a certain skill points level, and then move onto tranquility? So that they can get to know the game in relative safeness perhaps?

Or do liek others mmo do, you can buy any skills ofc there are differing costs for each typr of skill, you still have to go down the same prereq skill tree, but you only skill up each level, on how much you actually use that ship or mod. So you actually do become a real expert. So if say you fly a cruiser for 3 months, with certain mods, you skill increases in flying that ship, with those mods. So insted of pretending your good at flying a ship, becuase you trained the skill the normal way, this way you actually are efficent in flying the ships, use the mods etc.


CCP have got to understand this



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