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blankseplocked Attributes OCD alert -> 20/20/20/20/19 = bad ; 20/20/20/20/20 = good !
 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.26 11:29:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Shirah Yuri
Granted. Still doesn't change the attributes I'd use for such a person/question.

When somebody ever asks you to borrow 100, tell them "I can only give you 99", see how many look at you funny.
I'll wait. You come back and tell us how it went.

Shirah Yuri
Posted - 2010.11.26 11:33:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Akita T
When somebody ever asks you to borrow 100, tell them "I can only give you 99", see how many look at you funny.
I'll wait. You come back and tell us how it went.


Now... where does that relate to free givings? Don't mix up things. Your rhetoric is fine. The actual argument lacks any substance.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.26 11:38:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/11/2010 11:48:09
Originally by: Shirah Yuri
The actual argument lacks any substance.

Then why bother having it at all in the first place ? You initiated that particular line of "reasoning".

Also, WHAT "free givings" ? I am getting 0.4 removed from each of the 4 more useful attributes and getting granted a single paltry 0.2 for the least useful of them all.
As for the SP that I or anybody else have already invested in learnings, those are not "given for free" at all, they were earned fair and square, with the KNOWLEDGE that it would take roughly FOUR YEARS before I'd catch up to the rest that stopped one level earlier in their learnings as far as useful skills go, sacrificing time to train them, time in which I could have trained other useful skills.
So, now, I get those "reimbursed", and I know that 8 years and a half down the road, I'd be worse off than I could have been before again. If I cared enough for an action with 4 years payoff delay, you bet that I do care to some degree about a 8 years reverse situation.

AND STILL, THAT WAS NOT THE POINT.
The point was that 20/20/20/20/19 JUST LOOKS UGLY. It's as simple as that.
Instead, 20/20/20/20/20 looks very nice, and has the added benefit or making more sense from a mathematical comparison standpoint too.

Shirah Yuri
Posted - 2010.11.26 11:41:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Shirah Yuri on 26/11/2010 11:57:02
Originally by: Akita T
Then why bother having it at all in the first place ? You initiated that particular line of "reasoning".


The actual argument referring to your "loan" example. But... don't let us turn this discussion into a meta-discussion. Both you and I have better things to do. Well, I know i have :)

As for what you're getting free: Since you already had your positive effect of the learning skills, you're getting for FREE the reimbursement of all you invested into them. If being put to a slightly slower training gives you any total disadvantage 8.5 years from now (to stick with your numbers, I cannot be bothered to do the maths myself) and until then gets you into a total ADVANTAGE, and that tiny percent effect is reason for you to worry, then there, too, is no reason to discuss this, as we clearly have different concepts of what we're playing the game for. I'm personally playing it for the fun NOW, and not the potential fun in 9 years. And within those nine years, be assured, the EVE world will see changes that will have you think of other things than the two percent you could skill faster then "if there hadn't been that nerf, waaay back".

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.11.26 12:03:00 - [95]
 

I vote we just reduce Akita T's stats to 19/19/19/19/19...

You know, to keep his OCD under control.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.11.26 12:51:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
I vote we just reduce Akita T's stats to 19/19/19/19/19...

You know, to keep his OCD under control.

CCP ban this post

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.26 12:55:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Edited by: Zagdul on 25/11/2010 13:21:54

Sorry for people who trained all V's in learning. Great for the majority of players who did basically what I did.



Don't be, people who have trained all learnings lvl V have gained lots and lots of sp's over you during the past years. And now we get an even bigger boost to our skills than you do.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.26 13:46:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I vote we just reduce Akita T's stats to 19/19/19/19/19...

You know, to keep his OCD under control.

CCP ban this post

Why? It's funny.
Did they already take Sarcasm lvl1 from you and replaced it with Austerity lvl5?

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:37:00 - [99]
 

I agree with AkitaT. It would make more sense, AND look prettier!

...

*goes back to arranging sharpened pencils by remaining length*

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:39:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
I vote we just reduce Akita T's stats to 19/19/19/19/19...

You know, to keep his OCD under control.


Make the proposal in the AH, I'll support it.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:43:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: Shirah Yuri
All in all, this discussion is very much like if I give someone, just for the heck of it, 100 Euros, and he goes asking "Oh, nice... but why not 200?!"

No, more like, you give somebody 99 Euro and he asks you "why not 100".
Except you replace "Euro" with "Base attribute points".



Well my answer to that would always be something along the lines of "Well how about 0, you ungracious so-and-so?"

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:54:00 - [102]
 

You and your OCD both need to get over it.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.11.26 15:01:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I vote we just reduce Akita T's stats to 19/19/19/19/19...

You know, to keep his OCD under control.


Make the proposal in the AH, I'll support it.


supported 99.99999%

Evilan Altana
Moriar Libera
Posted - 2010.11.26 15:38:00 - [104]
 

I completely support it being 20/20/20/20/20 because the first thing i thought when seeing that 19 and seeing:

"which looks very pretty and sensible and planned, which is always nice when it happens by accident."

was well why not a little bit of intentional tweaking to make it nice and even.

Even though I had no intention of training charisma skills for anywhere near enough to justify almost any of my skill points, I had to because it wouldn't be even with the others.

My OCD also demands it, because otherwise its just lopsided.


FAKE EDIT: I have trained all 5's in learning on many accounts and the removal of learning skills is quite possibly the greatest news I could possibly read.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:03:00 - [105]
 

I agree simply because 202020202020 looks better than 20202020202019(WTEFF?!?!?)

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:06:00 - [106]
 

I think a better point to this is that currently with max skills you have 99.9 points for your attributes. CCP is aware of this and instead of rounding up to 100 points total they are rounding down to 99 points. They MUST have a reason for this but I cannot fathom what it could possibly be. Either way...I agree with the OP.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:27:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
I think a better point to this is that currently with max skills you have 99.9 points for your attributes.

Well, it's actually max 97.9, but you get up to 2.5 extra from the interaction between "Learning" and implants (a +5 implant with Learning 5 trained acts like a +5.5 implant) for a grand total of 100.4

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:29:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
I think a better point to this is that currently with max skills you have 99.9 points for your attributes.

Well, it's actually max 97.9, but you get up to 2.5 extra from the interaction between "Learning" and implants (a +5 implant with Learning 5 trained acts like a +5.5 implant) for a grand total of 100.4

Well if thats the case then we are going to be getting MORE points and everybody wins.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:39:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/11/2010 17:50:31
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Well if thats the case then we are going to be getting MORE points and everybody wins.

I think you misunderstand.

NOW, we get up to a max of 100.4, not 99.9 as you stated... but AFTER this change we only get up to a max of 99.0 (plus, in both cases, the +25 max from implants before learnings come into play).
The 100.4 is composed of 39 base + 50 raw learnings + 11.4 from "Learning" itself applied to all possible attribute sources (+3.9 from current base attributes, +5.0 from maxed learnings and +2.5 from full set of +5 implants).

In other words, on a completely maxed-out character, you had the potential for +61.4 to total attributes from learning skills.
They are removing those, and giving everybody a flat 60 (12 in each of the 5 attributes).
So the ONLY people that lose out on it (and ONLY very long term) are those with at least three L5 advanced learnings.
In itself, it is NOT a bad deal at all. Or at least not bad enough to warrant complaints all by itself.

The only somewhat nasty thing about it is the fact new players start with 99 attributes total, 20 in each attribute except charisma which is "stuck" at 19.

So, the superior compromise would be to give a grand total of 100 base attributes instead of 99, which means the only people losing out are those that trained ALL learning skills to maximum (and since most people avoided L5 advanced charisma unless they really, really ran out of ideas of things they wanted trained, that's the best thing overall).
Plus... it's perfectly symmetrical. Therefore beautiful. Hence, good. Or, well, better. It's better for other reasons too.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:50:00 - [110]
 

ok...so its a 1.4 loss not a .9 loss. lol...either way...I still agree with the OP. Laughing

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:58:00 - [111]
 

The most hilarious thing about it all is that even if they DO grant us one extra attribute point for a grand total of 100 AND a free remap for everybody, I _still_ wouldn't bother remapping, because I will have 21/21/21/21/15 plus one unassigned point (all hail 3 charisma), which is subjectively better for me than the 21/21/21/20/17 I could remap to (17 being the minimum in any one attribute).

Zakonis
Caldari
Goose Bite
Posted - 2010.11.26 18:23:00 - [112]
 

Well having OCD sucks big time. I use to have it really bad when I was younger. But 1 point and this now 4 page thread about 1 point. Well I think what they are doing is awesome. I don't really care about 1 point less in an attribute that we all, or most of us all don't really care about. If they are giving back all the skill points we spent in all the learning skills. Then I can't wait for this change! For several months I spent on an alt account learning all of the learning skills to lvl 5. Now I didn't learn all of the charisma skill and I'm missing 1 point in willpower. That comes to a total of 3,765,373 skill points! I for one welcome the change for I get to redistribute these babies!!! But if it isn't how I think it will be or they change it to not happen like this. I will cry and I'm a dude. Don't make me cry CCP, please?



Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.11.26 18:41:00 - [113]
 

Was Akita T always this annoying?

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.26 18:53:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Strom Kryos on 26/11/2010 19:07:38
Edited by: Strom Kryos on 26/11/2010 19:01:42
Well.. I agree with you in a logical technical way.

BUT

bah.. I misread something somewhere.. so there is no BUT.


night sentry
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.26 22:05:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: night sentry on 26/11/2010 22:06:15
agreed!!! I've spent 5 painful months training every learning skill to V, and the fruits of my labor was just beginning to take hold! faster training time than all the rest. And now CCP not only are you making all my suffering meaningless, since everyone is now the same, but ur taking away 1.4 attribute points that i've earned!!!

Insult to injury!!!

OUTRAGEE!!! I WISH YOU ILL CCPEvil or Very Mad

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2010.11.26 22:13:00 - [116]
 

I too, got OCD. Srsly tho, some of us likes things structured.

Julienne Poirier
Gallente
Nonya Endeavours
Posted - 2010.11.26 23:20:00 - [117]
 

+1 for 5x20 plan

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.27 01:45:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Was Akita T always this annoying?

Most likely yes Twisted Evil

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.27 03:04:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 27/11/2010 03:12:35
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
You might be running some risks by letting Akita think he has a chance to influence CCP policy, but it's worth it.

Nah, if anything, anecdotal evidence would suggest they they do the exact opposite more often than not Twisted Evil


Well yeah, that'd be my point. You're this bad now, how bad will you be if you think you have influence? Shocked

Razz

Originally by: Intigo
Was Akita T always this annoying?


Lord yes. The problem is that he has this damnable knack for being right at the same time. Seriously, I think he was the first one to actually look at the moongoo changes in Dominion(and I include CCP staff in that), and he called it perfectly. He's the only person I've ever felt like accusing of being *too* analytical.

Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
Posted - 2010.11.27 03:44:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Akita T
ANOTHER POSSIBLE SOLUTION : Boost attribute gains from implants by 10% too !
So a "+1" attribute would actually grant +1.1 (like it used to), and a "+5" would grant +5.5
Or at least by 6% (so 1.06, 2.12, 3.18, 4.24 and 5.3).
... but that wouldn't satisfy the OCD tendencies, so screw it.

I'm suprised your OCD didn't go nuts over the idea of changing the 20/20/20/20/19 to 19.8/19.8/19.8/19.8/18.7 to accomodate the redistribution of Learning V effects to the implants. Laughing


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