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ForgePriceRunner
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:27:00 - [211]
 

Today I have 15 base points + 10 in skills + 5 from implants times 1.1 from the skill "Learning".
That equals to 33 points of Perception.
With the new system it'll be 15 base points + 12 + 5 from implants, equals 32.

Same goes for Willpower old was 26.4 new will be 26.

This way you effectively have cut my max training ability from 2,772 SP/hour to 2,700 SP/hour.

Why not just add 13 base points instead of 12 and that way keep everyone happy ?

Or as someone else mentioned stick to 12 and grant an extra 2 points to be added as the player pleases

Its not like that those extra base points for each attribute is gonna make the player base insta train all the skills.
But with this change you'll make it take even longer to train the skills you want.

Lillith Starfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:27:00 - [212]
 

I am curious how many people took the recent power of 2 offer. Most of those will probably have been using the time and ISK to train up learning skills by now? I do think there should be a rethink for new accounts within a certain time frame to get some ISK refund.

Azia Khanid
Amarr
Sausages of Truth
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:27:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Jupix
Removing learning skills is not dumbing EVE down, it's smarting it up. Training "nothing" for weeks on end before getting to actually train your character is stupid and drives newbies away.

I spent weeks on them and say, good riddance.


Yes.
Advanced Spaceship Command to go next please.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:28:00 - [214]
 

will be there any compensation for the time we spend whit lower attributes until we skilled UP learning ?

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:28:00 - [215]
 

Please please don't let the CSM whinge you into reversing this great idea.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:29:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Red lensman
attribute booster's are getting a nerf as they used to get effected by the learning lv5 skill so a +4 implant used to give a +4.4 boost. so all implants should really given
a 10% boost to make up for the loss of the skill, or give 10 pounts and leave the lv5 learning skill boost running


You want to train EVEN faster? You'll be training faster anyway, unless you've had +10 from skills.
Yes, because now I'll train as if I'd have 5/4 skills instead, I didn't learn those skills to ratin slower, you know... and while it's some 2-3% drop - there are skills that give you same 2% advantage and take weeks, still people train them. What if CCP decided to nerf some autocanon specialization 5 same way?

Rick Rothsar
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:30:00 - [217]
 

Someone said they're losing 640k SP training per year under the new plan.

640k SP / 5m SP reimbursement (recovered SP previously tied up in learning skills) = 7.8 YEARS before you actually lose SP over what your current SP pace.

I certainly hope you're not butthurt over how much SP your character is going to be losing starting in September of 2018.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:30:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Jade Mandukar
So what about those that are selling and buying characters?


Nobody care.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:31:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
On the flipside, I'm guessing you feel somewhat cheated out of the money, because if you'd known this earlier, you would have the same advantages in a month's time without having spent the money for it. That does kinda suck, and we're sorry that's happened to a few people.


On the basis that the change is being made to encourage new players then I think you could come up with something a bit more positive than that.

When I restarted Eve (played 2003-2005) it still took me 3 weeks of missioning to raise the required amount for all advanced implants while buying ships etc. This was before tutorial/epic arc stuff but even so I was a returning player who knew most of the basics.

The people that you're "sorry that's happened to" are the people least well equipped to cope in isk terms. They are also your potential future subscribers.

Go think again about this and come up with a plan to make these "few people" happy. Its a one-off and I'm sure you can identify accounts that aren't buddied/power-of-two etc.

Really you need to do this.

Kaurava
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:31:00 - [220]
 

Great idea and at the same time makes me ****y as I just did a neural remap hours before DT and planned for the next eight months.

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:32:00 - [221]
 

Joy. What next? Removing the crafting system and replacing it with a nice simple buy from NPC vendor one?

If I wanted a simple console game I'd go buy a console.

Way to go SOE.


111kartel111
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:32:00 - [222]
 

So if i am currently training hybrid turrets to lvl 5 and i know that the learning skills are all going away and that they will be even across the board i can do a remap now and dump everything into those skills i need to train hybrids.??
What im saying is that it shouldent matter since all attributes will be even after the patch anyhow or am i missing something.ugh

ZultanUK
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:33:00 - [223]
 

At first I wasnt sure about this...but tbh I kinda like the idea of insta-training for an Archon Laughing

Hi to all the newbies that will start playing because of this..and I look forward to popping you YARRRR!!

Thanks CCP

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:33:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
The vocal few do not represent the opinions of the majority.
Basing decisions on that is a terrible idea.

>Implying the majority of Eve players do not hate learning skills

Mikokoel
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:33:00 - [225]
 

Will the SP of partially learned Learning Skills also be refunded?
I know partially learning isn't any useful, but I just want to know...

Mallikanth
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:33:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Azia Khanid

Which bit in particular makes you think I need fresh air and to calm down?

Or are you just spouting that "u mad bro?" thing that the internet likes so much because you have basically given up on thinking for yourself?

Feel free to ignore what I type and respond to what you wish I had typed.


LaughingLaughing

Caiden Baxter
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:34:00 - [227]
 

Hmm bit torn about what to think off this. Kinda sucks when u spent isk and time on it, but hey on the other hand free sp. now i finally can get Cruiser V doneugh

Rick Rothsar
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:34:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Joy. What next? Removing the crafting system and replacing it with a nice simple buy from NPC vendor one?

If I wanted a simple console game I'd go buy a console.

Way to go SOE.



You mad, bro?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:35:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Mikokoel
Will the SP of partially learned Learning Skills also be refunded?
I know partially learning isn't any useful, but I just want to know...
If I were to guess, they'll just comb through everyone's account, tally up the amount of SP in the Learning category and toss that number into the "SP to spend" bucket, so partial will probably count as well.

Chruker
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:35:00 - [230]
 

buh, for the loss of the 72 sp/hour when you have remapped for a skillgroup... and buh for stifling beginners that just followed the advice of other players and spend isk on the learning skills.


Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:36:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/11/2010 13:35:49
YAY!!
Best thing CCP did since I started playing!! Very Happy

Originally by: Rick Rothsar
Someone said they're losing 640k SP training per year under the new plan.
640k SP / 5m SP reimbursement (recovered SP previously tied up in learning skills) = 7.8 YEARS before you actually lose SP over what your current SP pace.
I certainly hope you're not butthurt over how much SP your character is going to be losing starting in September of 2018.

Exactly! ;)

PLUS you get a few million SP to redistribute in drone, leadership, social, navigation, PI skills that you would otherwise have trained at sub-optimal speed.So practically it's even beyond Sept 2018!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:36:00 - [232]
 

20/20/20/20/19 = BAD !!!
20/20/20/20/20 = GOOD !

Rabble rabble OCD rabble !

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:37:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Rick Rothsar
Someone said they're losing 640k SP training per year under the new plan.

640k SP / 5m SP reimbursement (recovered SP previously tied up in learning skills) = 7.8 YEARS before you actually lose SP over what your current SP pace.

I certainly hope you're not butthurt over how much SP your character is going to be losing starting in September of 2018.
Just in time for the bug fixes.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:37:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: thatbloke
Something I haven't seen asked yet: is there some limit (time, or otherwise) on when these refunded SPs have to be used by? I'm thinking here in terms of inactive accounts - i have a friend with about 3mil SP in learning whose account is currently inactive, will he need to activate his account to get this benefit and will there be any kind of time limit on having to redeem the points we are refunded?


No, there is no time limit.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:37:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: ForgePriceRunner
Today I have 15 base points + 10 in skills + 5 from implants times 1.1 from the skill "Learning".
That equals to 33 points of Perception.
With the new system it'll be 15 base points + 12 + 5 from implants, equals 32.

Same goes for Willpower old was 26.4 new will be 26.

This way you effectively have cut my max training ability from 2,772 SP/hour to 2,700 SP/hour.

Why not just add 13 base points instead of 12 and that way keep everyone happy ?

Or as someone else mentioned stick to 12 and grant an extra 2 points to be added as the player pleases

Its not like that those extra base points for each attribute is gonna make the player base insta train all the skills.
But with this change you'll make it take even longer to train the skills you want.


+1 make it +13 and we will call it even.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:37:00 - [236]
 

Quote:
This will also involve cancelling any and all market orders containing these skills. Contracts containing learning skills will have those skillbooks substituted for copies of the Pax Amarria


I smell a conspiracy! Are you on the Amarr/CVA payroll CCP?

Awesome present CCP, Better than the lump of coal I thought I would be getting. I've been a bad boy this year!YARRRR!!

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:39:00 - [237]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 13:40:28
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Red lensman
attribute booster's are getting a nerf as they used to get effected by the learning lv5 skill so a +4 implant used to give a +4.4 boost. so all implants should really given
a 10% boost to make up for the loss of the skill, or give 10 pounts and leave the lv5 learning skill boost running


You want to train EVEN faster? You'll be training faster anyway, unless you've had +10 from skills.
Yes, because now I'll train as if I'd have 5/4 skills instead, I didn't learn those skills to ratin slower, you know... and while it's some 2-3% drop - there are skills that give you same 2% advantage and take weeks, still people train them. What if CCP decided to nerf some autocanon specialization 5 same way?

No.
+9 with +5 implants is 2673.
After change... see up in the thread.

Originally by: Rick Rothsar
Someone said they're losing 640k SP training per year under the new plan.

640k SP / 5m SP reimbursement (recovered SP previously tied up in learning skills) = 7.8 YEARS before you actually lose SP over what your current SP pace.

I certainly hope you're not butthurt over how much SP your character is going to be losing starting in September of 2018.


QFT

Azureite
Amarr
Special Forces Operation Detachment Delta
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:39:00 - [238]
 

This is, indeed, wonderful. I can't wait to get my hands on my reimbursed skillpoints Twisted Evil

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:39:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: KurnKuku
Please please don't let the CSM whinge you into reversing this great idea.


We discussed this change in depth with the CSM and they provided us with some fantastic feedback. As you can see from page one, a lot of CSM members are happy to see this change take place Smile

Charlotte Yakamoto
Amarr
Lead Farmers
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:40:00 - [240]
 

So, to the people whining about getting slower training times. True, you'll be training at 2700 SP/hour instead of 2772 SP/hour. Now take into account that you will have 5.3m SP that you can now put in skills you'd otherwise have to train. Putting these 72SP/h loss against a 5.3m SP win, it will take 3067 days, or about 8.3 years, until you ACTUALLY start losing out in actual skills trained. Until then, you're actually ahead.


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