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Plz No
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:40:00 - [1801]
 

Originally by: Akita T
20/20/20/20/19 = BAD !!!
20/20/20/20/20 = GOOD !

Rabble rabble OCD rabble !



this

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:31:00 - [1802]
 

o/ long time no see. Very good stuff! DO IT NAO!

DocSniper
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:12:00 - [1803]
 

I'm on the fence on this one. Personally I think this is removing a path of competition for some players. I can take pride in the fact that I didn't get into a Raven within 2 months and actually spent all of my time "investing" in the learning skills. For this I am being rewarded with a faster learning speed for future development.

Newbies can choose to take either path, Learn or Fly... it is a choice. Heck you can choose to train learning skills later, after already learning how to fly a Raven. But it is player choice... and this removes this "choice"... the option for you to be better at something than someone else.

My toon has maxed out her learning skills and I take comfort and pride in the time I spent learning the skills. If others didn't then that is their perogative.

Is it nice that I get to redistribute 5.375mil SP's... sure... but CCP has now managed to remove an aspect of competition for some players.

Having the learning skills NEVER prevented ANYONE from flying early on in the game. You just had to make a choice... and that is what I thought EVE was about... Choices.

Zeal Chi
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:49:00 - [1804]
 

Personaly at this point i dont really care Rolling Eyes. Vet players i do feel a bit bad for them and am worried about all the WoW kids joining and ruining eve's mature nature. On the other hand ive been ganked countless times buy Vet players so meh. Started a new acount about 3weeks back so in that sense im glad Laughing.

Long Live Eve!!

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:08:00 - [1805]
 

Originally by: Zeal Chi
Personaly at this point i dont really care Rolling Eyes. Vet players i do feel a bit bad for them and am worried about all the WoW kids joining and ruining eve's mature nature. On the other hand ive been ganked countless times buy Vet players so meh. Started a new acount about 3weeks back so in that sense im glad Laughing.

Long Live Eve!!


Lol well said Wink

D'Kelle
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:10:00 - [1806]
 

Edited by: D''Kelle on 01/12/2010 15:10:30
Originally by: DocSniper
I'm on the fence on this one. Personally I think this is removing a path of competition for some players. I can take pride in the fact that I didn't get into a Raven within 2 months and actually spent all of my time "investing" in the learning skills. For this I am being rewarded with a faster learning speed for future development.

Newbies can choose to take either path, Learn or Fly... it is a choice. Heck you can choose to train learning skills later, after already learning how to fly a Raven. But it is player choice... and this removes this "choice"... the option for you to be better at something than someone else.

My toon has maxed out her learning skills and I take comfort and pride in the time I spent learning the skills. If others didn't then that is their perogative.

Is it nice that I get to redistribute 5.375mil SP's... sure... but CCP has now managed to remove an aspect of competition for some players.

Having the learning skills NEVER prevented ANYONE from flying early on in the game. You just had to make a choice... and that is what I thought EVE was about... Choices.


It's a fair point, It's political correctness again coupled with or driven by the fudamental need to make money by CCP, sorry to seem cynical but thats business, thats the way I see it; don't put off potential customers even if they are impatient spoiled kiddies ( and by kiddies I dont just meen the WoW crowd ) who demand all the treats at once plus the seemingly political view that all must start off equal, (what a load of bo**cks), just so they dont get peevish, stuff the fact that the EVE game is intended to be a long term investment not a one hour and finsished console game, which seem to me like a lot of new players want, instant this and that, as you say no pride in developing your char; to choose to become something better through effort and sacrifice.

Sindjin Hawke
RaVeN Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:13:00 - [1807]
 

I don't believe it will really matter that much. It still takes time to train to fly a battleship and also to train to equip the thing properly. I don't see removing the Learning Skills opening the doors for the WoW kids.


D'Kelle
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:40:00 - [1808]
 

Edited by: D''Kelle on 01/12/2010 15:40:44
Originally by: Sindjin Hawke
I don't believe it will really matter that much. It still takes time to train to fly a battleship and also to train to equip the thing properly. I don't see removing the Learning Skills opening the doors for the WoW kids.


It's not the WoW kids per se, it's more that kind of attitude towards the game console gaming types have; the average console game has a very limited active life in general, before a new game pops into the charts, Im not knocking that type of game, but it's followers usually are of a different mind set to most EVE players, dont drive to change EVE down to suit them because they can't hack it, let them adapt and step up to the mark of a more long term involved mature game.

backtrace
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:42:00 - [1809]
 

Keep your hands away of my precious learnings! They are so RPGish.

D'Kelle
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:51:00 - [1810]
 

Cynical I may be but before long someone some where will want to be able to save a game point in EVE before a battle, just incase they loose their ship or get poded, hopefully that will never occur; while unlikely in the extream and hopefully very difficult to code. Nevertheless given enough pressure from some sad group wanting it it, it could get rammed down your throat whether you want it or not. especially if there are customers to be generated from it, or it appears difficult for new players to get into EVE.

Vechter Leider
Southern Cross Trilogy
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:04:00 - [1811]
 

Thank you very much, CCP. It's a change for the greater good. It's surprising, however, that there are mixed emotions for something so beneficial for everyone.

Alliances can look forward to guiding their fresh players/recruits through preferred corp fits & support skills sooner, rather than smothering them with "Learning = Long Term" & "Fun Now vs Long Term" lectures.

Players new to Learning Skills can dry their eyes about the cost of these skill books in their early days, because in the grander scheme of Lvl 4-5 mission-running, Wormholes, Sov Warfare, Hulkageddons, Cap Fleets, Fleet Manufacturing & Billion-isk Marauders, the 5-10 million is a mere drop in the ISK Ocean. They are getting a better deal.

Elitists can be thankful that CCP is reimbursing, ultimately look forward to more pewpew & rest assured that at the end of the day - no matter how much math they do - their assets & SkillPoints will still be there & in greater abundance than other players.

61 pages... Sorry that some did not see the bigger picture beyond themselves, CCP.

Kuntakinte NL
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:22:00 - [1812]
 

Question:

I got 2 chars with base 3 charisma and the atributes have never been reassigned. How is this gonna go?
Is it gonna be 3+12 or is ccp gonna even out your sp to minimal 5+12 base.

Please tell.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:50:00 - [1813]
 

Originally by: Kuntakinte NL
Question:

I got 2 chars with base 3 charisma and the atributes have never been reassigned. How is this gonna go?
Is it gonna be 3+12 or is ccp gonna even out your sp to minimal 5+12 base.

Please tell.
Assuming you don't break the server query and end the world with your ancient numbers that they forgot about… Razz

…you should end up with 3+12, or you'll have a pretty solid case for badgering a remap or attribute rest out of them. Well, that, or they'll accidentally give you 5+12 anyway and suddenly you'll have two more attribute points than everyone else in the game. Wink

Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:25:00 - [1814]
 

My body is ready.

Rix Farenstein
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:26:00 - [1815]
 

Edited by: Rix Farenstein on 01/12/2010 19:47:13
Like a few others, I am disappointed to see the removal of the Learning Skills group.
I also believe it added an extra dimension to the decision making aspect of playing EVE.
To train them or not to train them?
That was the question that we all asked ourselves and others for their opinions on this.

Maybe I am griping because I made the choice to spend weeks and weeks of training to get them to level 5, with the knowledge of the benefits I would get from doing so.
I made that choice, and now that decision is wiped out and the benefits I had over others who made different choices has been eradicated.
Isn't this a core fundamental to the game mechanics, choices?
These choices separate EVE from other MMO's quite significantly in my eyes.

I completely understand the opinion of others who think it is a good idea to drop them, however what's the point of the remapping and the attribute enhancers?
Players choose on which to buy/train!
Players choose which race to be, which ships to fly, which skills to train!
Choice after choice after choice.
Taking away those choices lessens the EVE experience.
Just my opinion.

YAMANTAKA
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:49:00 - [1816]
 

i really dont understand what will happen with skills
i m not happy
i understand that is good for new players ,who want to play and kill fast, but this will change the character of the whole game
if i understand , the one day players have the same possibilities as any one else who plays for years.
its not fair , i spend weeks and months to decide what skill to train and what ship to fly ,this game makes me think
now all vanished , was i stupid doing all this ?
i understand that for ccp means more players more money but in the future will be another shootem up game ..
corect me if i am wrong

SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:19:00 - [1817]
 

Originally by: DocSniper
I'm on the fence on this one. Personally I think this is removing a path of competition for some players. I can take pride in the fact that I didn't get into a Raven within 2 months and actually spent all of my time "investing" in the learning skills. For this I am being rewarded with a faster learning speed for future development.

Newbies can choose to take either path, Learn or Fly... it is a choice. Heck you can choose to train learning skills later, after already learning how to fly a Raven. But it is player choice... and this removes this "choice"... the option for you to be better at something than someone else.

My toon has maxed out her learning skills and I take comfort and pride in the time I spent learning the skills. If others didn't then that is their perogative.

Is it nice that I get to redistribute 5.375mil SP's... sure... but CCP has now managed to remove an aspect of competition for some players.

Having the learning skills NEVER prevented ANYONE from flying early on in the game. You just had to make a choice... and that is what I thought EVE was about... Choices.


^^^ this

And my number of level 5 skills will be 11 lower Crying or Very sad
And now i'll never will catch those older players who didn't invest in max learning skills and +5 implants Crying or Very sad
And I had preferred that CCP had used the development effort in something useful/else... (imho)

It's just a early Christmas present for the slow learners in this game ugh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:24:00 - [1818]
 

Originally by: SillyWaif
And now i'll never will catch those older players who didn't invest in max learning skills and +5 implants Crying or Very sad
Yes you will.

Flashrain
Posted - 2010.12.01 21:15:00 - [1819]
 

We need a free neural remap since people make 12 month plans based on the old system.

Tiligean
Posted - 2010.12.01 21:44:00 - [1820]
 

Not claiming the discovery...

It may be that with your current remap, training a learning skill RIGHT NOW gives you the highest SP/hr rate. If so, you should be training that skill. RIGHT NOW. Because it gives you the most SP when CCP pulls the plug.

FYI...

And, in closing, this isn't true for me - with my current remap none of the learning skills are my max SP/hr skills.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2010.12.02 00:33:00 - [1821]
 

I can see why they're doing it, even if I still don't agree with it personally on principle.

Oh well.

devonii
Posted - 2010.12.02 03:59:00 - [1822]
 

Originally by: CCP Stillman
We're soon gonna remove learning skills from Singularity. Why don't you come and check it out, and gain some extra skill points on Singularity?


Because I'm already at level 5 with +5 implants and will be LOSING skillpoints on Singularity. Oh wait....my four accounts aren't worth **** to CCP. They'll easily make this up now that EVE is easier for the new players. :) Nevermind...let me jump on and get this testing started so I can see how slow I train now. Maybe what you meant to say is, "redistribute the skillpoints you already had to something else"??? Wouldn't that be a much more accurate statement? Please remember CCP, we already trained these skillpoints. You aren't giving us anything. We aren't gaining anything. These aren't "extra" skillpoints. Please stop calling it that.

I am glad that you are at least letting us redistribute the points if you're taking learning skills away. This is NOT a gift of something extra though. Let's just be honest about and call a spade a spade. You are screwing some (granted not many) to benefit a lot of people. That is perfectly within your rights to do as the developers of this game....no need to lie about it or make this game anything other than a big screwfest. That is, after all, what EVE is all about. :)

Love all of you. (I want to kill you, pod you, take all your ISK, **** your naked dead clones ass, and **** your moms) but yes....I do love you and will still continue trying to take advantage of you at every possible opportunity.


Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.12.02 05:16:00 - [1823]
 

Originally by: devonii
Originally by: CCP Stillman
We're soon gonna remove learning skills from Singularity. Why don't you come and check it out, and gain some extra skill points on Singularity?


Because I'm already at level 5 with +5 implants and will be LOSING skillpoints on Singularity. Oh wait....my four accounts aren't worth **** to CCP. They'll easily make this up now that EVE is easier for the new players. :) Nevermind...let me jump on and get this testing started so I can see how slow I train now. Maybe what you meant to say is, "redistribute the skillpoints you already had to something else"??? Wouldn't that be a much more accurate statement? Please remember CCP, we already trained these skillpoints. You aren't giving us anything. We aren't gaining anything. These aren't "extra" skillpoints. Please stop calling it that.

I am glad that you are at least letting us redistribute the points if you're taking learning skills away. This is NOT a gift of something extra though. Let's just be honest about and call a spade a spade. You are screwing some (granted not many) to benefit a lot of people. That is perfectly within your rights to do as the developers of this game....no need to lie about it or make this game anything other than a big screwfest. That is, after all, what EVE is all about. :)

Love all of you. (I want to kill you, pod you, take all your ISK, **** your naked dead clones ass, and **** your moms) but yes....I do love you and will still continue trying to take advantage of you at every possible opportunity.



You only train *slightly* slower in a singular instance. Otherwise you train faster if you're not perfectly mapped for certain skills.

Milk Butter
Posted - 2010.12.02 05:53:00 - [1824]
 

Good bye training I think!
This is the only question I, have does this change affect my training time having all skill books and high implants?

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.12.02 05:56:00 - [1825]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 02/12/2010 06:03:50
Originally by: Milk Butter
Good bye training I think!


Huh?

Originally by: Milk Butter
This is the only question I have, does this change affect my training time having all skill books and high implants?


Depends on your attributes and if they get changed. If you have all 5/5 learnign skills, you'll learn about as fast or just minimally slower. If you got anything but 5/5, you'll learn faster. Implants are not effected and I don't quite get, what you mean with "having all skillbooks".

Originally by: YAMANTAKA
i really dont understand what will happen with skills
i m not happy


Learning skills will be removed, you get the points you invested into learning skills reimbursed and can redistribute them to other skills after 14th. Other skills will not be influenced at all by this change.

Originally by: YAMANTAKA
i understand that is good for new players ,who want to play and kill fast, but this will change the character of the whole game


Not a tiny little step. Learnign skills have a very miniscule influence on actual gameplay at all. They're not the big divider between smart and less intelligent players as the whiners want to make them.

Originally by: YAMANTAKA
if i understand , the one day players have the same possibilities as any one else who plays for years.


This is simply not the case. Look for something else to complain about, please.

Originally by: YAMANTAKA
its not fair , i spend weeks and months to decide what skill to train and what ship to fly ,this game makes me think
now all vanished , was i stupid doing all this ?


As said, the influence of learning skills on actual competativeness is close to non-existant. People still have to make the same choices, nothing changed and nothing vanished.

Originally by: YAMANTAKA
i understand that for ccp means more players more money but in the future will be another shootem up game ..
corect me if i am wrong


You are wrong. Completely. From word one onwards.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:28:00 - [1826]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 02/12/2010 07:32:36
Edited by: Rip Minner on 02/12/2010 07:29:37
Page 61 come on keep going people. I am posting in the last and hopefully longest ever Learning skills thearednot!ugh

Edit: I always have been in favor of keeping them. I lost. But I love the pain! Kick me in the Teeth again CCP it feels goodTwisted Evil


Edit2: As a sidenote I would now like Payed remaps. I was not for this before but now my learning skills are gone I would realy like them lolzNeutral

Piscis
Gallente
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:34:00 - [1827]
 

Giving us learning skill points to SPEND is a sexy wonderfull soft sweet and juicy thing. Give us more targets to kill please.

Cheresznye
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:44:00 - [1828]
 

Hi,

I would like to know how can I spend the reimbursed SPs. Do I have to do it at next login after the deployment? Or can I split them up and spend the SPs at different time points later on? Can I save some SPs for skills I don't have at the moment or with other words I will inject later?

Cheers,

Cher

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:58:00 - [1829]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 02/12/2010 08:22:18
Originally by: Cheresznye
Hi,

I would like to know how can I spend the reimbursed SPs. Do I have to do it at next login after the deployment? Or can I split them up and spend the SPs at different time points later on? Can I save some SPs for skills I don't have at the moment or with other words I will inject later?

Cheers,

Cher


The right-click context-menu in the skills-tab of your character sheet will be your friend.

Beyond that: You can keep them as long as you see fit. There's no need to spend them immediatly.

Dorn Val
Posted - 2010.12.02 08:14:00 - [1830]
 

Originally by: SillyWaif
...And now i'll never will catch those older players who didn't invest in max learning skills and +5 implants Crying or Very sad


You'd never catch them anyway unless they all stopped training...


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