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Zoe Alarhun
Amarr
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:56:00 - [151]
 

Awesome Present - yay!

Dame Death
Minmatar
Core Impulse
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:56:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: Dame Death on 25/11/2010 12:56:33
Originally by: Mra Rednu
Quote:
•This will also involve cancelling any and all market orders containing these skills. Contracts containing learning skills will have those skillbooks substituted for copies of the Pax Amarria
.


Amarr victor


Cant you replace all in amarr space with "Forged pax amarria" Just to annoy Mra and that scummer rodj?

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:57:00 - [153]
 

Well my present for CCP is no extra income from my accounts (all cancelled, except primary so far)
First the idea of plex for remap, which didn't make it (yet) and now this. So all I can do is say goodbye as I don't like the road CCP is following now with dumbing down eve and making it more attractive for rich kiddies that don't know the value of money.

CCP Stillman

Posted - 2010.11.25 12:57:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Tereliss Verr


Does this mean then that learning implants are still valid?

P.S. Awesome idea btw, we need more people in this game, but I hope the lag wont get worse


I'll refer to CCP Hammer's post:
Originally by: CCP Hammer
I saw a few questions about implants. Attribute boosting implants are not changing. All that is changing is listed in the blog.


So yes, nothing is changing with implants nor the cerebral booster that comes with the new EVE box.

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:57:00 - [155]
 

So when we have implants removed? +5s is so expensive for noobs...

Tereliss Verr
Minmatar
Space Tech Solutions
PHOENIX REPUBLIC
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:57:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Rex Rotham
For all the bashing CCP takes, I think they do in an incredible job.

I was very impressed when CCP made the decision to implement the 24 hour learning queue, and I'm equally as impressed with their decision to remove learning skills.

To those who don't appreciate CCP, you have a gaming studio that actually LISTENS to what the player base wants. They obviously can't make everyone happy but some things are so overwhelmingly obvious that the majority of sensible players want it - this is one of those cases.

Great job CCP, stay awesome.



What he said Laughing

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:58:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Rian O'Shea
This change does not in any way affect our attribute remap, does it?


will put your max stat at 32 (15+12+5) instead of 33 (15+10+5)*1.1, and your secondary stat should be 26 (9+12+5) instead of 26.4 (9+10+5)*1.1

so I guess not "awesome" but I'm not really all that annoyed by it, I mean we used to not even be able to remap.

Cunane
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:58:00 - [158]
 

Best news, in the world, possibly ever. EVER. <3

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:58:00 - [159]
 

Not bad, but I would have liked to keep the books for collection value.


Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:58:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Shandir on 25/11/2010 12:59:11
Oh look ^^^ the bittervets have woken up.

Edit: Of course, in the time it took me to post that, 2 pages flew by.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:59:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Marmios
You mad because newer players wont be forced to train 3 months of worthless time and you had to? Learning skills added depth? wtf are you smoking ? Why dont you idiot just shut up?
If they were worthless, why are we keeping the improved attributes these skills gave us?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.25 12:59:00 - [162]
 

Figures.
Just as I have ~8 hours left to finishing the last of my L5 learning skill, the news hits Laughing

I'm a tiny bit miffed at the chosen addition value, 12 to each attribute.

Before the change, you had a max of (39 base + 25 basics + 25 advanceds + 25 implants)*1.1 learning = 125.4 max total.
After the change, you will have 39+60=99 base + 25 implants = 124 max total, or an overall loss of 1.4 attribute points.
Ok, it's not a HUGE drop, but its still a drop nevertheless.

IMO, they should have only removed the 10 attribute-based learnings and added 10 to each basic value, but left the "learning" skill in place (the only "oddball" one).
OR, they could add 12 to each attribute and give us 2 freely distributable unassigned attribute points (for a grand total of +0.6 max attribute points).

...

Oh well. Not like we could do much about it.

Tereliss Verr
Minmatar
Space Tech Solutions
PHOENIX REPUBLIC
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:00:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: CCP Stillman
Originally by: Tereliss Verr


Does this mean then that learning implants are still valid?

P.S. Awesome idea btw, we need more people in this game, but I hope the lag wont get worse


I'll refer to CCP Hammer's post:
Originally by: CCP Hammer
I saw a few questions about implants. Attribute boosting implants are not changing. All that is changing is listed in the blog.


So yes, nothing is changing with implants nor the cerebral booster that comes with the new EVE box.




I loves you CCP Very Happy

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:00:00 - [164]
 

not so impressed.
i have 6 accounts 4 of them will now train slower (33/25 split) and 1 will get its base charisma changed dispite for nearly 2 years me avoiding remaps as it dosnt help me.

thanks merry xmas to you too ccp

Kalos Beila
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:00:00 - [165]
 


Tri Vetra
Minmatar
Ascetic Virtues
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:00:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
CCP Greyscale reports that learning skills will go away. This change to learning mechanics is something that will affect every player so we encourage you to read more about it in his latest blog.


Thank you so much.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:01:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Rian O'Shea
This change does not in any way affect our attribute remap, does it?


will put your max stat at 32 (15+12+5) instead of 33 (15+10+5)*1.1, and your secondary stat should be 26 (9+12+5) instead of 26.4 (9+10+5)*1.1

so I guess not "awesome" but I'm not really all that annoyed by it, I mean we used to not even be able to remap.


It's actually a slight buff for everyone not at +10 from learning skills. And slight nerf for everyone at... :P

madBadger
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:01:00 - [168]
 

so is it more beneficial to re map before or after Learning SP removal? Or does it not matter?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:02:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Evil Zeb
not so impressed.
i have 6 accounts 4 of them will now train slower (33/25 split) and 1 will get its base charisma changed dispite for nearly 2 years me avoiding remaps as it dosnt help me.

thanks merry xmas to you too ccp


On the other hand the reimbursed SP will mean that you have more total non-learning SP for a very long time indeed.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:03:00 - [170]
 

Noone seems to have said that there would be a forced remap. Dunno where you guys are getting that from.
Also, you can't have achura stats *and* be suffering from not quite perfect remapped stats. That's dumb. You either have achura stats, or you've remapped to pri/sec, not both.

RM Odrade
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:03:00 - [171]
 

How long will we have to redistribute the SP? I am still saving up for all of the books needed to get into a carrier and even though 5.7M SP isn't a WHOLE lot, it's gonna be a nice start down that training path.

Valantharia
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:04:00 - [172]
 

This is great, now all we need is a new "optimize attributes" tool for our future scheduled skill plans! Did you hear that EVEMon? Thanks in advance!

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:07:00 - [173]
 

I have seen it asked few times, but no answer so far. What about those with base charisma 3 currently. Will all characters be converted into 20/20/20/20/19 or will we keep current base attributes and just get +12 added to each one we currently have ?

Rendiff
Gallente
Wabbit Fabbit Industries
Beacon Light Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [174]
 

I believe this change will result in a WIN.Cool

Xodarapmis
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [175]
 

Edited by: Xodarapmis on 25/11/2010 13:34:38
<Issue Resolved, Post Withdrawn>

Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [176]
 

I haven't thought this through.. but it sounds awesome.

H00ray for CCP!
hipp hipp

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: RM Odrade
How long will we have to redistribute the SP? I am still saving up for all of the books needed to get into a carrier and even though 5.7M SP isn't a WHOLE lot, it's gonna be a nice start down that training path.
Throw the points into drones/energy emmisions/capital repair modules etc.

That or, jump drive cal or fuel conservation. If you ever plan on getting a jump freighter, having JDC V and JFC V are awesome and skills you'd hate to train into.

I'm going to put my points into skills I want, but don't wanna train up. I'm thinking of dumping them into leadership skills.

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Evil Zeb
not so impressed.
i have 6 accounts 4 of them will now train slower (33/25 split) and 1 will get its base charisma changed dispite for nearly 2 years me avoiding remaps as it dosnt help me.

thanks merry xmas to you too ccp


On the other hand the reimbursed SP will mean that you have more total non-learning SP for a very long time indeed.


ill have the same amount of sp's as now and will always train slower. ok its only 620k a year but i dont see why just because they want to dumb the game down it has to cost a long time customer anything

TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Fags R Us
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:08:00 - [179]
 

The vocal few do not represent the opinions of the majority.
Basing decisions on that is a terrible idea.

CCP listening to the community usually falls to listening to those vocal few, which isn't CCP's fault entirely.

They do a lot of great things but what really drew me to eve is the

Choices and consequences

There was the choice to learn all the learning skills to what ever level each player deemed fit.
If you didn't you lost out on training time in the long run but got more toys in the short run and visa versa.

Removing these just makes me wonder what those vocal few will choose to scream about next?
Navigation skills? Everyone NEEDS Navigation 5 and Warp Drive Operation 5 and they offer little noticeable change while playing the game.
Same goes for all the generic skills, Rapid Firing etc.
Ok, some are prerequisites for other skills\modules but removing some of the choice\consequences opens the doors to these requests.

CCP aren't going to turn heel on this after announcing it in a blog so I begrudgingly accept this fate but I'd like to know, as others have asked,
what was the thinking behind this?

Also, a history lesson would be nice.
Why were the learning skills put in place?
What were they meant to solve?
Did they do that?
Why wasn't an attribute boost considered instead of the skills?

That's obviously a request to a dev not to randoms on the forums

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:09:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/11/2010 13:10:42
Originally by: Tereliss Verr
How does this effect the full set of +5's i have?
They will be worth 25 attribute points rather than 27.5 (if you had Learning V trained).
Originally by: wizard87
Something I'm unclear about:

Will remaps still be possible once per year as default?

If not, how do you find out your BASE attributes again?
Their insistence that it won't change aside, I would guess that this is the second part of the christmas gift. Razz

Anyway, your base attributes will now be 17 + whatever you attribute points you put into them through the remap. Your new max base attribute will be 27; the new "min-maxed" attribute combination will be 27 primary + 21 secondary. Your max SP gain/h will be 2700 instead of 2772.
Originally by: Battlecheese
You guys do realise that the whole skills bit used to be an interesting bit of the game, right? Back when you had to make choices, schedule skills so you'd be around to put another one on etc?
Learning skills were never interesting — they were a pointless metagaming mechanic that added nothing to the game. Learning them was complete balls, but completely necessary in order not to make the rest of the skill system balls as well. Now that they're gone, the skill system is all interesting and automatically non-ball:y again.
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
Choices and consequences

There was the choice to learn all the learning skills to what ever level each player deemed fit.
Exactly: choices and consequences. The consequence for not training them was so profound that there in reality was no choice. Now people can actually start choosing again.


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