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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:05:00 - [1741]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 29/11/2010 20:15:38


Originally by: Tippia
No, the only reason one would be willing to wait was that one made the decision to do so to begin with. Now you can get more useful stuff in there as a bonus.


Like I have already stated, The wait is part of a planned progression that doesn't exist when part of the plan has been removed. The only stuff that you can get in there is stuff that wasn't planned to be in there in the first place and would only be a bonus if it was or if the attributes reflect this.

Originally by: Tippia
And as everyone keeps pointing out: they weren't really a choice.


As logic will tell you, there were many other skills that put you right into the meat of the game. If you chose to do some meta gaming while those first few months of learning skills accrued than that was a choice you made and a choice that would pay off twofold later on down the road.

Originally by: Tippia
…there is a huge difference in what they affect: Learning skills affect meta-mechanics; all other skills affect mechanics.


Doesn't matter what they affect, skills are passive and therfore meta. plain and simple.

Originally by: Tippia
There was no choice. Removing them adds choice since people can now free to pick their path with far more freedom and with less things making everyone same:y.


Your statement couldn't be more a$$ backwards if you tried. Skills are choice by their very nature. Choices are freedom and Identity. Get a clue.

Originally by: Tippia
Yes: changes in the game — a move away from stagnation. It is the thing that has always brought people back.


People come and go, if they come back it's more likely they came back because the game provided something that they had been missing. This means that there was something in the game before that they enjoyed and are coming back to experince again. But then again there are other reasons why people come back to something and because that something is nothing like it used to be, would rarely be the case.

Originally by: Tippia
No. It's safe to say that, since CCP have been wanting them gone for the last four years, it's about time they actually do that and move on to fixing the next problem holding the game back.


You say this like their hands were tied until it was resolved or simply out of the way. Like there was nothing else that could be done until this one crux of a problem was circumvented. Who are you trying to fool ? Certainly not yourself that was accomplished a long time ago.

Originally by: Tippia
The reason may still be there (or not — one stated reason has been removed), but there are now far better ways of solving that problem. Learning skills were never a good solution to begin with, and now they have been replaced by something better.


There you go again with more of your abstract bull$****. You call learning skills a "solution" ? to what ? They were a feature that allowed players to skill at a higher rate of speed for as long as they retained their subscription. There was no chance of ever losing them from being podded or seeing them diminish in value. Once they were achieved they remained and gave the player exactly what they were intended to provide.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:08:00 - [1742]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 29/11/2010 20:08:59
Originally by: Rupicolous

Originally by: Ranka Mei
@Rupicolous: 'Meta' is like when you ask your favorite genie to grant you three wishes, and your last wish is wishing for three more wishes. The latter is a meta-wish, because it's a wish for wishes. Same with learning skills: they are meta-skills because, unlike every other skill, they pertain to learning itself: you learn learning with them, so to speak.

And I'm not sure where exactly 'passive' entered into the discussion; but it looks to me someone needs to look up the definition of 'meta' again -- and it ain't Tippia. :)

I've looked up meta again for a refresher and 'am quite confident i have a better understanding of it than you or Tippia. With that said you can reference my last post for your instructional pleasure.


Uh-huh. :)

As for meta stuff, what can I say? The fool persists in his folly. Nothing new there. I commend Tippia for carrying you round after round; especially since you're probably the single person in the entire game who doesn't grasp the fairly simple meta-concept of the learning skills. And I'm not sure whether that's funny or sad; but I'm going with funny for the time being, LOL.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:08:00 - [1743]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 29/11/2010 20:12:54

Originally by: Tippia
Not even close. You still think it's about locus and control, when it is about level of reference and about effect.


You couldn't be further off the mark if you tried, It's an issue of passive interaction or continuous regulation with mouse clicking. If it's passive it's out of game and meta. There couldn't be a simpler way of explaining it to you.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:13:00 - [1744]
 


Originally by: Ranka Mei
Uh-huh. :)

As for meta stuff, what can I say? The fool persists in his folly. Nothing new there. I commend Tippia for carrying you round after round; especially since you're probably the single person in the entire game who doesn't grasp the fairly simple meta-concept of the learning skills. And I'm not sure whether that funny or sad; but I'm going with funny for the time being, LOL.


You're so lost you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag. All you can do is chime in anyways. Stick with what your good at and leave the serious business to the ones that understand.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:22:00 - [1745]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous

You're so lost you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag. All you can do is chime in anyways. Stick with what your good at and leave the serious business to the ones that understand.


True enough, I just chime in every now and then, as I can't really bring myself to take your stuff seriously. Sorry, mate. I just take what I can get: the occasion chuckle and a head-shake. If you want a larger committment, try saying something sensible every now and then, k?

Hooligan Tool
Awww Diddums..
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:27:00 - [1746]
 

Hey all!

Y'all seem to have some strong opinions about the coming changes.

Check out this thread and vote on the polls linked there. Who knows -- if enough people vote, CCP might change their plans...

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.29 20:27:00 - [1747]
 


Originally by: Ranka Mei
True enough, I just chime in every now and then, as I can't really bring myself to take your stuff seriously. Sorry, mate. I just take what I can get: the occasion chuckle and a head-shake. If you want a larger committment, try saying something sensible every now and then, k?


Well i'm certainly not trying to impress you if that's your notion.

I've better things to do than entertain your whims.

If you need someone to help you figure it out, get a shrink.

Hokbaba
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:39:00 - [1748]
 

Edited by: Hokbaba on 29/11/2010 22:58:35
Losing the Learning skills is just what we don't want...

Every player will be the same soon... What's the point except get the noobs faster to the sandbox.. just to make the decisions in the game have smaller consequences .. if you continue in this direction, the game will just be more casual. We don't want another WoW where everybody can get what everybody else has already or will get right after you. We want to be SPECIAL and that our decisions affect the future ! Not that our decisions doesn't matter, we are in the same boat and can't be different :x

Seriously this is a bad idea. Crying or Very sad

Hallan De'estus
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:57:00 - [1749]
 

Some clarification please by those in the know?

The blog is clear about reimbursement of "trained" skills. My request ties to the definition of a "trained" skill.... please, before you flame me read on?

If one looks up a character via the "My Character" function one does have a very nice view of total "trained" SP and the associated breakouts per category. If one looks at a skill that is partially trained to the next level the SP for the partially completed level are shown but not counted in the total for the category. Only that skill's SP required for the lower, completed level are counted.

So, can those in the know hazard an informed opinion on this question: Will SP accumulated for a partially completed level in a learning skill be included in the reimbursement?

Many thanks.

Odnam Moc
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:07:00 - [1750]
 

Originally by: Hokbaba
Edited by: Hokbaba on 29/11/2010 22:58:35
Losing the Learning skills is just what we don't want...

Every player will be the same soon... What's the point except get the noobs faster to the sandbox.. just to make the decisions in the game have smaller consequences .. if you continue in this direction, the game will just be more casual. We don't want another WoW where everybody can get what everybody else has already or will get right after you. We want to be SPECIAL and that our decisions affect the future ! Not that our decisions doesn't matter, we are in the same boat and can't be different :x

Seriously this is a bad idea. Crying or Very sad


Wrong. CCP isn't giving everyone Cybernetics 5 and a full set of lvl 5 implants for free.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:20:00 - [1751]
 

Originally by: Hallan De'estus
Some clarification please by those in the know?

The blog is clear about reimbursement of "trained" skills. My request ties to the definition of a "trained" skill.... please, before you flame me read on?

If one looks up a character via the "My Character" function one does have a very nice view of total "trained" SP and the associated breakouts per category. If one looks at a skill that is partially trained to the next level the SP for the partially completed level are shown but not counted in the total for the category. Only that skill's SP required for the lower, completed level are counted.

So, can those in the know hazard an informed opinion on this question: Will SP accumulated for a partially completed level in a learning skill be included in the reimbursement?

Many thanks.


Yes. CCP said somewhere that you will get back as much as you've trained. It doesn't have to be completed skills, partial will be refunded as well.

Hooligan Tool
Awww Diddums..
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:21:00 - [1752]
 

Edited by: Hooligan Tool on 29/11/2010 23:22:22
Originally by: Hallan De'estus
Some clarification please by those in the know?

The blog is clear about reimbursement of "trained" skills. My request ties to the definition of a "trained" skill.... please, before you flame me read on?

If one looks up a character via the "My Character" function one does have a very nice view of total "trained" SP and the associated breakouts per category. If one looks at a skill that is partially trained to the next level the SP for the partially completed level are shown but not counted in the total for the category. Only that skill's SP required for the lower, completed level are counted.

So, can those in the know hazard an informed opinion on this question: Will SP accumulated for a partially completed level in a learning skill be included in the reimbursement?

Many thanks.


Partially trained skill points are included. Read this post for answers to other questions you may have, all gathered up in one place.

Edit: Damnit Gallians!! :P

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:35:00 - [1753]
 

Originally by: Hooligan Tool
Edited by: Hooligan Tool on 29/11/2010 23:22:22
Originally by: Hallan De'estus
Some clarification please by those in the know?

The blog is clear about reimbursement of "trained" skills. My request ties to the definition of a "trained" skill.... please, before you flame me read on?

If one looks up a character via the "My Character" function one does have a very nice view of total "trained" SP and the associated breakouts per category. If one looks at a skill that is partially trained to the next level the SP for the partially completed level are shown but not counted in the total for the category. Only that skill's SP required for the lower, completed level are counted.

So, can those in the know hazard an informed opinion on this question: Will SP accumulated for a partially completed level in a learning skill be included in the reimbursement?

Many thanks.


Partially trained skill points are included. Read this post for answers to other questions you may have, all gathered up in one place.

Edit: Damnit Gallians!! :P
<3 Smile

Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:52:00 - [1754]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous

Originally by: Tippia
…there is a huge difference in what they affect: Learning skills affect meta-mechanics; all other skills affect mechanics.


Doesn't matter what they affect, skills are passive and therfore meta. plain and simple.



I'll weigh in on this.
Skilling is a meta-mechanic.
Skills are meta-skills if, and only if, they affect a meta-mechanic.
Ergo, Learning Skills are meta-skills.

Tippia has the right of it, in this case.
Someone else mentioned that all skills had a meta-effect, I'd like to see their reasoning on that.


I am a 'bitter vet' with 5/5, but I support these changes.
For all those crying about the 72SP/h, I still believe the 8-year thing is valid, but I wont go into it.
More importantly, the 72SP/h is only valid for a singular combination of atributes.
Any skill that is off-prime (eg. non-Per+Will or whatever was minmaxed) will be training faster than currently possible.

Ares Esper
Posted - 2010.11.30 00:41:00 - [1755]
 

Well seeing as learning skills are being chucked out, how about letting us delete skills so we can better refine our characters. Everyone has some skill they dont want or mistrained as a noob.

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:39:00 - [1756]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 30/11/2010 02:11:28
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Rupicolous

You're so lost you couldn't find your way out of a paper bag. All you can do is chime in anyways. Stick with what your good at and leave the serious business to the ones that understand.


True enough, I just chime in every now and then, as I can't really bring myself to take your stuff seriously. Sorry, mate. I just take what I can get: the occasion chuckle and a head-shake. If you want a larger committment, try saying something sensible every now and then, k?


/me highfives Ranka Mei

Originally by: Hokbaba
Every player will be the same soon... What's the point except get the noobs faster to the sandbox.. just to make the decisions in the game have smaller consequences .. if you continue in this direction, the game will just be more casual. We don't want another WoW where everybody can get what everybody else has already or will get right after you. We want to be SPECIAL and that our decisions affect the future ! Not that our decisions doesn't matter, we are in the same boat and can't be different :x


  • No, this doesn't make the game any easier at all. It merely removes a mechanic, which is akin to *Gather 100 Murlock heads and come here to get a reward*. If at all, it makes EVE more different from WoW, since it removes an equivalent to the XP-grind.

  • Also, it doesn't dumb down the game, because WoW would not become any more difficult by adding a skill, that adds +x% XP-gain. Or are you convinced of the opposite? Because pretending that learning-skills made the game harder is the same as pretending WoW would become a game for smarties, by adding such a +x% XP-gain skill.

  • Diversity lies within the choices you make ingame. Which ship you fly, which profession you do, which corp you join, which weapon you fit and so on. Everybody and their mom had learnings to at least 4/4 or higher and how fast you train skills doesn't make your character or career more distinct from other characters or choices other people made, at all.

  • Also the game doesn't become more casual by this change, since now there are only skills left, that have a direct effect on how your toon performs in it's profession. In fact, Learning skills were a skillset, which often made people abstain from the game during their training-time because of the waiting-time involved, during which your character didn't enhance his abilities. Now that they're gone, there's more incentive to actually log in and see how your toon improves.


But then again, you definitly could repeat all the statements that didn't have any validality, when they were said the first time and continue to make yourself look like a troll. Feel free, to go ahead.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.30 03:09:00 - [1757]
 

Edited by: Joss56 on 30/11/2010 03:15:33
Originally by: Ares Esper
Well seeing as learning skills are being chucked out, how about letting us delete skills so we can better refine our characters. Everyone has some skill they dont want or mistrained as a noob.


I'm in that case since i started this char training this and that just for testing but, now i have skils on some weapons or ships or mining that i will never use.

But this is the price that i must pay for those bad choices, well i can say my self now that this char is most fighter but can also craft riggs, ships and a lot of funny things.

Yes, my first choices now have great impact on my plan and someone that trained fine since the beguining now will put me one year behind after one year training, but it's not his fault, it's mine and i assume.
I can have lots of fun with, so wy change it? -he's unique ;)

So, sorry but i can't agree with your idea.

(not english native blah blah blah) Wink


Lucy Ditti
Posted - 2010.11.30 03:29:00 - [1758]
 

Being a OCD minimaximizer I wondered what will happen to queued learning skills during the removal of learning skills?

See separate question thread here .

(I swears I checked if there was some official answer about that, but I gave up at page 42 or so)

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.11.30 07:29:00 - [1759]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 30/11/2010 07:31:23
Originally by: Lucy Ditti
Being a OCD minimaximizer I wondered what will happen to queued learning skills during the removal of learning skills?

See separate question thread here .

(I swears I checked if there was some official answer about that, but I gave up at page 42 or so)


There was indeed no official answer to that question, but chances are, you'll be able to train them till the last second and when the DT-happens, the skills will simply be removed from the queue, forwarding anything that was scheduled behind. However, I can only guestimate if the following skill in the queue will be started automatically, but I think it will. (You do have another skill queued behind, do you? Or are you a bad minmaxer? Razz)

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.30 08:52:00 - [1760]
 


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.30 09:32:00 - [1761]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
This is what "including all the fiddly edge cases" in the blog means. Trained skills, partially trained skills, skills in training, skills halfway to level 1 etc should all be covered.



Since you're answering questions, perhaps you'd be willing to answer this one too? :)


CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.30 10:24:00 - [1762]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Since you're answering questions, perhaps you'd be willing to answer this one too? :)


Geez, I actually cannot find the answer to that question. Seems like a fairly important detail to let slip. Embarassed

Your skill queue will be reordered for you to ensure that people who do not log in the minute after the server comes up do not lose any training time.

In the case of a learning skill being your skill in training the next skill in queue will start with his start time registered uniformly for all altered records. That is your place in the scripts execution will not infer any advantage in training. If your skill in training is not a learning skill its start time will not be affected. If the only skill in your queue is a learning skill you'll end up with an empty queue after reimbursment.

The end time of your entire queue has to be recalculated as your attributes have changed. This will restecp your active clone implants of course. Paused queues are paused and left as such.

So to go for optimal SP gain (I guess, haven't really put much thought into this) you should set a learning skill in training with the maximal possible sp/hour for your character, ensure there's time for another skill in there (or switch before DT) so that once the learning skill is removed that skill will start training as of it's removal and then spend all your points on a skill with your worst attributes in it maximizing your sp/hour gain for the whole shebang and losing no training.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.30 10:27:00 - [1763]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 30/11/2010 10:27:52
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Since you're answering questions, perhaps you'd be willing to answer this one too? :)


Geez, I actually cannot find the answer to that question. Seems like a fairly important detail to let slip. Embarassed

Your skill queue will be reordered for you to ensure that people who do not log in the minute after the server comes up do not lose any training time.

In the case of a learning skill being your skill in training the next skill in queue will start with his start time registered uniformly for all altered records. That is your place in the scripts execution will not infer any advantage in training. If your skill in training is not a learning skill its start time will not be affected. If the only skill in your queue is a learning skill you'll end up with an empty queue after reimbursment.

The end time of your entire queue has to be recalculated as your attributes have changed. This will restecp your active clone implants of course. Paused queues are paused and left as such.

So to go for optimal SP gain (I guess, haven't really put much thought into this) you should set a learning skill in training with the maximal possible sp/hour for your character, ensure there's time for another skill in there (or switch before DT) so that once the learning skill is removed that skill will start training as of it's removal and then spend all your points on a skill with your worst attributes in it maximizing your sp/hour gain for the whole shebang and losing no training.


Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. It's much appreciated. :)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.30 10:42:00 - [1764]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 30/11/2010 10:44:22
Originally by: Rupicolous
Like I have already stated, The wait is part of a planned progression that doesn't exist when part of the plan has been removed.
The wait is there regardless of the planned progression because it is inherent in the remap mechanic. You made the decision to wait a year; you get to wait a year; the removal of learning skills don't change that you planned to wait a year; losing them still means you have to wait a year. Guess what? You can still stand waiting a year and now get even more out of your willingly imposed waiting period.
Quote:
As logic will tell you, there were many other skills that put you right into the meat of the game. If you chose to do some meta gaming while those first few months of learning skills accrued than that was a choice you made and a choice that would pay off twofold later on down the road.
…and the point you keep on missing is that it wasn't really a choice as the prevalence of learning skills shows.
Quote:
Doesn't matter what they affect, skills are passive and therfore meta. plain and simple.
100% incorrect. Passiveness is entirely irrelevant. See above for a good explanation of what meta is and isn't: what you are talking about is the process of acquiring skills, not the skills themselves. Skilling is a meta-game event; skill use is (for most skills) an in-game event; learning skills affect the meta-game event and are thus meta-skills.

Hell, the learning skills even pass the simplest of "meta?"-tests: whether they're self-referential or not:
  • Learning skills are skills that affect skills.
    Self-referential. Second-order. Meta.
  • Mechanics skills are skills that affect your ship or your industry jobs.
    Object-referential. First-order. Non-meta.
  • Trading skills are skills that affect your market orders.
    Object-referential. First-order. Non-meta.
  • Social skills are are skills that affect your NPC interaction.
    Object-referential. First-order. Non-meta.
    etc etc etc.
Learning skills are the only skills that have this meta-level property. They are inherently different. This made them a hideous mechanic. That's why they're going away and why the "so why not remove fitting skills" rhetoric is silly.
Quote:
Your statement couldn't be more a$$ backwards if you tried. Skills are choice by their very nature. Choices are freedom and Identity.
…thus removing a non-choice and giving people more/better options for the skills that make a difference also gives them more freedom of choice and identity.

Quote:
People come and go, if they come back it's more likely they came back because the game provided something that they had been missing.
You mean like skilling without pointless and obstructive meta-gameplay?
Quote:
But then again there are other reasons why people come back to something and because that something is nothing like it used to be, would rarely be the case.
Good thing then that this isn't what's happening…
Quote:
You say this like their hands were tied until it was resolved or simply out of the way.
As far as the NPE goes, it rather was…
Quote:
There you go again with more of your abstract bull$****. You call learning skills a "solution" ? to what ?
In your own words: "[learning skills] were there for a reason and that reason hasn't gone anywhere". You were calling them a solution. To what problem? Well…
Quote:
They were a feature that allowed players to skill at a higher rate of speed for as long as they retained their subscription.
You claim the problem is a slow skilling speed; you claim the learning skills were a solution. If you know the answer, why are you asking me? Either way, the reason they existed has now been replaced by an equivalent solution.
Quote:
There was no chance of ever losing them from being podded or seeing them diminish in value.
This is false, btw…

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.30 10:48:00 - [1765]
 

Hearing rumours that ccp is actually gunna do the learning changes at todays downtime

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.11.30 11:10:00 - [1766]
 

Tippia - i think you need to stop posting before the internetz go's down with overuse/abuse Wink

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.11.30 11:25:00 - [1767]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
Hearing rumours that ccp is actually gunna do the learning changes at todays downtime


Rumors are rumors aka someone spewing hot air without any actual backing.

Dinak Khnid
Posted - 2010.11.30 12:25:00 - [1768]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 27/11/2010 08:47:25
Originally by: Sidi Barani
[...]

[snip][...]


[snip]Ship-fitting and fitting skills, the ship-type, the toon's profession, the choice of weapons you use, the corp you join, the items you produce, the implants you use, the attribute-allocation via remap you decide on for the next year are choices. Learning-skills were not.


The decision to skill or not were and are choices. This is totally is unfair and unwelcome change. I've invested in implants to enhance my learaning/skill time shortening abilities. If others opted not tooo, then it was their choice. CCP is not considering the vast amounts of isk invested in implants to further enhance our learning speeds., I could care less about how others feel about investment they decided against. It is unfair and unacceptable. Am considering seriously no longer playing as it takes entirely too much of the time I invested NOT PLAYING to gaing this advadvantage. Time invested that canot be recouped and is not being recompensed for, So you give me my skillpoints to redistribute, it does not pay me for my time.

Time is important to some of us and this "time-sink" of a game took a great deal of mine in the past 4 years in training learning skills not for me to speak out again.

How are you going to recompensate for the loss of time-invested in acquiring the learning skills? Redistributing them is not compensation! ! !

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.30 12:27:00 - [1769]
 

Well, finally they did it. Keep it going CCP!




PS:
@CCP I'm really curious how many skillpoints a player will get refunded on the average.


Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.11.30 12:35:00 - [1770]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 30/11/2010 12:36:23
Originally by: Dinak Khnid
The decision to skill or not were and are choices. This is totally is unfair and unwelcome change. I've invested in implants to enhance my learaning/skill time shortening abilities. If others opted not tooo, then it was their choice. CCP is not considering the vast amounts of isk invested in implants to further enhance our learning speeds.


Um, am I correct with the impression, that you think, that your implants will be removed? If so then: They'll stay where they are. If no, then I don't really understand, what your point up there is.

Originally by: Dinak Khnid
Time is important to some of us and this "time-sink" of a game took a great deal of mine in the past 4 years in training learning skills not for me to speak out again.


So, shouldn't you be happy about your future alts, eventually your main (dunno if you went 5/5) and a ****ton of newer players not having to go through this mandatory grind again?

Originally by: Dinak Khnid
How are you going to recompensate for the loss of time-invested in acquiring the learning skills? Redistributing them is not compensation! ! !


Gimme more exclamation marks, come on, I didn't have enough of them today!!!
Anyways: Are you serious or just trolling? SP=time. You'll get the complete SP, which you invested into learning skills fully refunded and be able to move them where you see fit, to somewhat emulate how you'd have invested these points, if you wouldn't have needed to invest them into learning skills. That is a full compensation. What do you expect beyond that? Interest rates? Free game-time? A free Republic Fleet Issue Tornado? Let me know, when you come back into reality.


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