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Takseen
Posted - 2010.11.28 18:52:00 - [1651]
 

Edited by: Takseen on 28/11/2010 18:52:46
Edited by: Takseen on 28/11/2010 18:52:35
Originally by: Vurseus
Edited by: Vurseus on 28/11/2010 17:09:48
CCP:

1) I remapped INT/MEM to train learning skills earlier this year. Please give all players an extra remap to account for this. I don't want to spend the rest of the year training skills for an area of the game in which I have no interest.




I'm not sure how you managed to remap block yourself. Surely the smart way to do it is
1) First free remap Int/Mem to train learning skills and any important fitting skills.
2) Second free remap to whatever you've decided your training focus will be for the next 12 months IE Perc/Will for combat characters.

What did you end up doing?

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:02:00 - [1652]
 


Originally by: Gallians
Good boy! there there.


Pretending to be the master - too funny.

How could you ever control something else when you can't even control yourself.

Quote and spin with your ignorant response.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:12:00 - [1653]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous

I got nothing of value to say.


Thats okay man, maybe something will come to you later. Who knows, maybe even an argument.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:14:00 - [1654]
 


Now you've lowered yourself to putting words in my mouth with a misquote.

You must be looking in the mirrior again.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:19:00 - [1655]
 

Originally by: Gallians
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 18:26:03


Is there a new scheme to replace this, because more attribute points is the stupidest, most generic, pile of $h1t I've have yet to hear.

You've watered down the game before, so I sappose you will try again.

You are simply out of your god damn minds.

Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???

Shame on you, your average player count deserves to drop because of this.

Looks like the collateral damage will be minimized just enough to limit subscription cancellations but is this really what is best for the games' distinction.

I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now and it will be accepted simply because change is good and change is growth but change shouldn't be the reason you throw something away.



Incorrect, their average player count deserves to increase because of this. And I have the feeling it will. Furthermore, Eve is very different today than it was 3 years ago, and I would say it is so for the better.

Please dont forget to contract me your stuff before you ragequit, Ill fondly remember you forever.



I'll take you back to the beginning since you can't remember how it started

Crimson Athena
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:20:00 - [1656]
 

Edited by: Crimson Athena on 28/11/2010 19:49:35
Revenue spike for CCP.
We know you want to make more money and thats ok so listen to this.
Allow the learning skills on the same account with multiple characters to be applied to any one character if the owner so chooses.
You will have a mass of character purchasing and characters being moved from one account to another like you will never see again.
That is a merry christmas for all.
I am sure many will give me hell for this idea and thats ok.
This will also raise the value of low sp characters.
The market value is going to drop on characters with the learning skills being used somewhere else. It already dropped with nerual remapping.
I don't care what others say watch the market.
For you smart boys I know this basically comes down to almost buying SP but WHO CARES. the rage quitters will leave for something anyway may as well be this. then maybe there wont be as much hate.... Sounds good saying it anyway right? LOL
I can feel the love coming for this already...



Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:32:00 - [1657]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???
Of course not. Nothing will. It is, however, removing a pointless obstacle along the way.
Quote:
is this really what is best for the games' distinction.
Yes. More focus on player choice, more focus on getting out there and doing stuff and learning the game from day one. A move further away from the "progress grind" that signify so many other games — move that now makes EVE even more distinctly different from those games.
Quote:
I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now
Yes? Do you also have an uncanny feeling that the sun will rise tomorrow? The game three years ago looked and felt very different from what we have today, and the game of 6 years ago looked and felt very different from what Trinity brought. It's what has made the game survive for so long: progress and change and staying away from stagnation.
Originally by: Crimson Athena
We know you want to make more money and thats ok so listen to this.
Allow the learning skills on the same account with multiple characters to be applied to any one character if the owner so chooses.
Those two sentences don't really match. If they wanted to make more money, why would they listen to an idea that means they get to sell fewer accounts? The one-time revenue from the character moves is instantly wiped out by the long-term loss of subscriptions.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:33:00 - [1658]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
Originally by: Gallians
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 18:26:03


Is there a new scheme to replace this, because more attribute points is the stupidest, most generic, pile of $h1t I've have yet to hear.

You've watered down the game before, so I sappose you will try again.

You are simply out of your god damn minds.

Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???

Shame on you, your average player count deserves to drop because of this.

Looks like the collateral damage will be minimized just enough to limit subscription cancellations but is this really what is best for the games' distinction.

I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now and it will be accepted simply because change is good and change is growth but change shouldn't be the reason you throw something away.



Incorrect, their average player count deserves to increase because of this. And I have the feeling it will. Furthermore, Eve is very different today than it was 3 years ago, and I would say it is so for the better.

Please dont forget to contract me your stuff before you ragequit, Ill fondly remember you forever.



I'll take you back to the beginning since you can't remember how it started


Good job, now let's see if you can come up with a coherent response to my post.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:34:00 - [1659]
 



They say "it takes a big man to realize how small he actually is".

Let me know when you get here .........

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:46:00 - [1660]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous

Pretentious nonsense.


Nice try, but you should go for an argument next time.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 19:50:00 - [1661]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 19:51:26

It would be one thing if you quoted yourself or even used your own words but all you do is quote others and then disagree.

This is neither intelligent nor debatable and continues to be your problem with each and every post you make.

btw, you already used the concept of a misquote, get some new material.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:00:00 - [1662]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
I don't really have an argument, I'm sorry to say.



That's what I thought, you give no support for your statements, nor can you back them up with anything other than noise.

LMK when you get some signal.


Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:03:00 - [1663]
 

Originally by: Gallians
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 18:26:03


Is there a new scheme to replace this, because more attribute points is the stupidest, most generic, pile of $h1t I've have yet to hear.

You've watered down the game before, so I sappose you will try again.

You are simply out of your god damn minds.

Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???

Shame on you, your average player count deserves to drop because of this.

Looks like the collateral damage will be minimized just enough to limit subscription cancellations but is this really what is best for the games' distinction.

I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now and it will be accepted simply because change is good and change is growth but change shouldn't be the reason you throw something away.



Incorrect, their average player count deserves to increase because of this. And I have the feeling it will. Furthermore, Eve is very different today than it was 3 years ago, and I would say it is so for the better.

Please dont forget to contract me your stuff before you ragequit, Ill fondly remember you forever.



Once again i'll take you back to the beginning, you let me know when you understand what i was saying.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:10:00 - [1664]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
Originally by: Gallians
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 18:26:03


Is there a new scheme to replace this, because more attribute points is the stupidest, most generic, pile of $h1t I've have yet to hear.

You've watered down the game before, so I sappose you will try again.

You are simply out of your god damn minds.

Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???

Shame on you, your average player count deserves to drop because of this.

Looks like the collateral damage will be minimized just enough to limit subscription cancellations but is this really what is best for the games' distinction.

I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now and it will be accepted simply because change is good and change is growth but change shouldn't be the reason you throw something away.



Incorrect, their average player count deserves to increase because of this. And I have the feeling it will. Furthermore, Eve is very different today than it was 3 years ago, and I would say it is so for the better.

Please dont forget to contract me your stuff before you ragequit, Ill fondly remember you forever.



Once again i'll take you back to the beginning, you let me know when you understand what i was saying.


I already answered the two lines that deserved an answer. You give no support for anything else other than "I don't like it" If you think thats an argument, well, lols to you.

If you need an explanation of my post: Player count deserves to increase because starting the game as a new player is not 2 months worth of station spinning anymore, thus encouraging new players to try the game and stay. On changing? Eve is a very different place than it was 3 years back. I tried the game then and couldn't stand it. I'd say its much better now, and heading in a better direction.

Does that make it clear enough for you?

Vurseus
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:13:00 - [1665]
 

Edited by: Vurseus on 28/11/2010 20:13:47
Originally by: Takseen
Edited by: Takseen on 28/11/2010 18:52:46
Edited by: Takseen on 28/11/2010 18:52:35
Originally by: Vurseus
Edited by: Vurseus on 28/11/2010 17:09:48
CCP:

1) I remapped INT/MEM to train learning skills earlier this year. Please give all players an extra remap to account for this. I don't want to spend the rest of the year training skills for an area of the game in which I have no interest.





I'm not sure how you managed to remap block yourself. Surely the smart way to do it is
1) First free remap Int/Mem to train learning skills and any important fitting skills.
2) Second free remap to whatever you've decided your training focus will be for the next 12 months IE Perc/Will for combat characters.

What did you end up doing?



Irrelevant.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:13:00 - [1666]
 


Yup

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:19:00 - [1667]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
Originally by: Gallians
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 18:26:03


Is there a new scheme to replace this, because more attribute points is the stupidest, most generic, pile of $h1t I've have yet to hear.

You've watered down the game before, so I sappose you will try again.

You are simply out of your god damn minds.

Do you really think this change is THE CHANGE that will put your average player count above 50 million ???

Shame on you, your average player count deserves to drop because of this.

Looks like the collateral damage will be minimized just enough to limit subscription cancellations but is this really what is best for the games' distinction.

I have an uncanny feeling that this game will look and feel very different 3 years from now and it will be accepted simply because change is good and change is growth but change shouldn't be the reason you throw something away.



Incorrect, their average player count deserves to increase because of this. And I have the feeling it will. Furthermore, Eve is very different today than it was 3 years ago, and I would say it is so for the better.

Please dont forget to contract me your stuff before you ragequit, Ill fondly remember you forever.



Once again i'll take you back to the beginning, you let me know when you understand what i was saying.


Purely on anecdotal evidence, it seems like a lot of people have or are planning to resub because of this.

Bel Rigean
Gallente
GoldLeaf Industries
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:20:00 - [1668]
 

As long as ALL the skill points a player invested in Learning are being reimbursed & the attribute points are being compensated, I do not have a problem with the Learning skills going away. That was a lot of time spent going to level 5 on all 11 Learning skills to gain the +10 in each attribute.

Just curious...How many others fully trained the Learning skills besides me?

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:22:00 - [1669]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 20:23:19
Originally by: Vurseus
Edited by: Vurseus on 28/11/2010 17:09:48
CCP:

1) I remapped INT/MEM to train learning skills earlier this year. Please give all players an extra remap to account for this. I don't want to spend the rest of the year training skills for an area of the game in which I have no interest.





I'm not sure how you managed to remap block yourself. Surely the smart way to do it is
1) First free remap Int/Mem to train learning skills and any important fitting skills.
2) Second free remap to whatever you've decided your training focus will be for the next 12 months IE Perc/Will for combat characters.

What did you end up doing?





You're assuming that was a new character, when it might of only had 1 remap.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:32:00 - [1670]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
You're assuming that was a new character, when it might of only had 1 remap.
If it wasn't a new character, he wasn't planning on only training mem/int learning skills, and had other stuff in the queue, and he wouldn't need another remap.

Or, rather, if he remapped without a second remap or without more int/mem skills in the queue — effectively making a one-year commitment on training for a three/four-month queue — then he has screwed himself over regardless, and that has nothing to do with the removal of learning skills.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:35:00 - [1671]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 20:35:30

I agree and don't see why the que couldn't be filled with close to 2 years of skills that relate to those 2 attributes.

Anyone would gladly take another remap though.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:38:00 - [1672]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
I agree and don't see why the que couldn't be filled with close to 2 years of skills that relate to those 2 attributes.

Anyone would gladly take another remap though.
Oh, definitely. Remaps are always welcome. There's just not much about this change that would warrant one, and if he managed to remap-block himself it's because he didn't think ahead, not because of the skill removal.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 20:44:00 - [1673]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 21:14:53

If he did remap for a 3 year plan of learning lvl 5 across the board a remap should be awarded especially if many of the other basic sklls have already been trained and there isn't much to fill the que with anymore.

This could be the case with several players and a remap would surely sweeten the deal for disgruntled veteran players, wink wink.

for instance: this char has trained for close to 3 years on Intelligence and Memory alone with the exception of basic Missle Launcher Operation prematurely -

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Rupicalous copy and paste - the link is broken ........

Biytor
Star Frontiers
Talos Coalition
Posted - 2010.11.28 22:36:00 - [1674]
 

Originally by: Bel Rigean
As long as ALL the skill points a player invested in Learning are being reimbursed & the attribute points are being compensated, I do not have a problem with the Learning skills going away. That was a lot of time spent going to level 5 on all 11 Learning skills to gain the +10 in each attribute.

Just curious...How many others fully trained the Learning skills besides me?


I'm 5/5 across the board. I agree with ya, but I'm getting a nerf with this change. I would like to get compensated for it at the same level it is right now.

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:16:00 - [1675]
 


Say player (X) is a 5 year vet and started with max mem/int then moved to will/per and just recently remapped to mem/int again to finish up the learning skills and a couple other related skills - now that the learning skills are being taken out lets say he has a 4-5 month gap in the que planned for the next year.

Hmmm what to put in ???

A remap sure would be nice !!!

Gritstone
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:16:00 - [1676]
 

Edited by: Gritstone on 28/11/2010 23:17:41
For anyone who can't be bothered to read the 50 + pages that this thread has already generated allow me to summarise,

You are in favour of this idea - you are correct. You may now eat cake.

You are against this improvement - you are utterly wrong and the game would be vastly improved if you cancelled your subscriptions and buggered off entirely. In fact for the sake of completeness, it might be an idea if you never subscribe to any online game ever again.

Takseen
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:35:00 - [1677]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous

Say player (X) is a 5 year vet and started with max mem/int then moved to will/per and just recently remapped to mem/int again to finish up the learning skills and a couple other related skills - now that the learning skills are being taken out lets say he has a 4-5 month gap in the que planned for the next year.

Hmmm what to put in ???

A remap sure would be nice !!!


Then that person isn't very clever, quite frankly. It doesn't take 4-5 months to "finish up" the learning skills. Just admit that you're fishing for a free remap, no need to be ashamed :)

Rupicolous
Higher Ground
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:44:00 - [1678]
 

Edited by: Rupicolous on 28/11/2010 23:45:57

Just saying, there was probably a few players that happened to remap right before the anouncement.

What could possibly be wrong with throwing in a remap for veteran players, when they are going to lose all the potential of those skills over new players.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.29 00:21:00 - [1679]
 

Originally by: Rupicolous
Just saying, there was probably a few players that happened to remap right before the anouncement.
…and unless that was a huge mistake on their part (in which case, why should CCP issue a fix for it?) the upcoming change makes zero difference for what they had planned.

There are a limited number of scenarios, and all of them end up with "no remap needed":
  • They are new and changed to int/mem as their first remap to get the learning skills out of the way, and then turn over to some other remap after 3–4 months to do other stuff.
    • They finished the learning skills → Just use the other remap as planned and make use of the reimbursed SP.
      No new remap needed.

    • They haven't finished the learning skills → Train some other int/mem skills (there will always be some you need), for the 3–4 months and then remap as planned, or just train the learning skills while there's time and then toss the SP into something more interesting.
      No remap needed.

  • They are not new (i.e. they don't have a second remap in store) and changed to int/mem to train one year of int/mem skills, the learning skills among them.
    • They finished the learning skills → The plan can proceed as planned, the remap will happen when it was planned to happen.
      No remap needed.

    • They haven't gotten to the learning skills yet → Toss in a few more int/mem skills for the 3-4 months and then remap as planned, or, as above, make use of the time left to the change to earn some redistributable SP at a high SP/h rate.
      No remap needed.

  • They are not new and changed to int/mem without a year-long plan for int/mem skills → they fscked up on their own, aren't affected by this change, and CCP shouldn't really help them (but I suppose they could petition it as "omgz, I misclicked"). With or without this change, they are stuck training skills they haven't thought of yet, and it's 100% their own fault.
    No remap needed
Quote:
What could possibly be wrong with throwing in a remap for veteran players, when they are going to lose all the potential of those skills over new players.
Nothing, but there is also nothing about this change that would motivate or require a free remap for everyone.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.29 00:26:00 - [1680]
 

Originally by: Gritstone
Edited by: Gritstone on 28/11/2010 23:17:41
For anyone who can't be bothered to read the 50 + pages that this thread has already generated allow me to summarise,

You are in favour of this idea - you are correct. You may now eat cake.

You are against this improvement - you are utterly wrong and the game would be vastly improved if you cancelled your subscriptions and buggered off entirely. In fact for the sake of completeness, it might be an idea if you never subscribe to any online game ever again.



I am Gallians and I approve of this message.


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