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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:12:00 - [931]
 

Originally by: This Suxbad
ok this may have been answerd but I didn't want to go through 30+ pages and I saw some people beating on someone about it.
My question is can we be able to remap (if not currently able) after the change? And the reason would be that since I will be applying a large number of skill points to items I had planned to train then my skill plan may change and I would possibly want to re-map.
i.e. I will be whacking off (no jokes) about 50 days of my current 120 day plan.


http://eve-search.com/thread/1420510/author/CCP
FFS ...

Falkus Windowmaker
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:12:00 - [932]
 

Originally by: Blackhuey
Awesome. Next please remove fitting skills, and anything else that requires investment for future reward.

*headdesk*


I bet you are...."Crawling in your skin, with wounds that will not heal."

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:15:00 - [933]
 

Originally by: This Suxbad
My question is can we be able to remap (if not currently able) after the change? And the reason would be that since I will be applying a large number of skill points to items I had planned to train then my skill plan may change and I would possibly want to re-map.
i.e. I will be whacking off (no jokes) about 50 days of my current 120 day plan.
No, no remap will be given.

The general consensus on how best to spend the SP seems to be to put them into skills that don't match any useful remap combination (eg. charisma-based skills, since a full-charisma remap won't last a full year unless you go really nuts). Alternatively, you could look into increasing that plan by the number of days you can save or pre-empting the start of what you had planned after your next remap (you were going to train it anyway, after all…)

This Suxbad
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:20:00 - [934]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: This Suxbad
ok this may have been answerd but I didn't want to go through 30+ pages and I saw some people beating on someone about it.
My question is can we be able to remap (if not currently able) after the change? And the reason would be that since I will be applying a large number of skill points to items I had planned to train then my skill plan may change and I would possibly want to re-map.
i.e. I will be whacking off (no jokes) about 50 days of my current 120 day plan.


http://eve-search.com/thread/1420510/author/CCP
FFS ...


Thanks. that helped

Incusus
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:22:00 - [935]
 

CCP- An Idea for you. Put NPC Buy Orders up on the market for same price as Sell Orders for the soon to be obsolete Learning Skills. I fully approve of this dynamic boost to the game and I encourage you to be brave and Forge Ahead******

Saxon
Gallente
Pardon Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:24:00 - [936]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Grendelfreak
Sorry if you already said this, but if we have multiple chars on an account do each char get the appropriate skillpoints or will it all go onto the highest SP char?


Yes, it is per character so any characters who have learning skills trained will have the pool of skill points to reallocate.


First of all, why do the SP's dont just go to the acount, in many cases ppl ( like me) have trained those skills to max to make characters for special things and thats it, means that our main character have stoped training for alt that is training learning :l. I do not see why i the can not remamp that time into my mains.

Second, i sure hope ccp is gona have neural remap availible for everyone at same time they change this, as that seems a litle bit fair, or ?

Best regards, saxon.

Tarartia
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:25:00 - [937]
 

I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that dismissing the learning skills will be good for newbs, but it does penalize long-term players more than a simple reimbursement of the learning skillpoints compensates for. The trend towards dumbing down the game to the lowest-common denominator is disappointing, as is the argument that 'we aren't going to try for a best-practice solution because it would be too hard'.

As an aside (rant, stop reading now tl;dr ppl) I just trained an alt from scratch and got all the learning skills to level 4 (throw in Cybernetic early on and get a set of +3 implants) and it only took 10 days, so I find the argument that the poor newbs are turned off by the imposing learning skills a non-starter. You play EVE for years not weeks, so HTFU noobs! If your attitude is that you only want to play for a few months and want instant gratification, then CCP should weight the opinion of players who have paid for (multiple) subs over several years higher than the crowd who breeze in, complain, then quit to go play WOW anyway because it is easier. Next CCP will have to give everybody all the level 5 Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship skills because it disadvantages noobs too much. So while we are at it, I want free cap ship skills!

Nano Soldier
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:25:00 - [938]
 

I can't say enough about the good job the EVE dev team and CSM's are doing....Keep up the good work guys.Laughing

Swidgen
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:27:00 - [939]
 

Not happy about this SP welfare. Not happy at all. But it is what it is, so ... whatever.

Bevil Smyth
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:28:00 - [940]
 

best thing ever!

i am officially mega chuffed! absolutely awesome decision ccp thankyou!

Ark Ferroraider
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:29:00 - [941]
 

Originally by: Jita Alt666
CCP want multiple accounts.

Yes. CCP want more paid accounts. But sometimes multiaccount-holders want more non-paid accounts. And...
Originally by: Jita Alt666
Remember it is impossible to have a trial and paying account online at same time on same ip address.

And it is true only for a computer of the ordinary user. For example, me. But comp can have more than 1 external IP. If to launch on 1 computer N of virtual machines and everyone to assign the IP, on a computer it will be possible to launch N+1 trials, they won't interfere with each other. Also like it is possible to modify the client that each launched copy of the client worked with the own IP (or even the computer can look for EVE cluster as local network with 1 IP, but consisting of DIFFERENT computers, and a cluster it will eat). Such modification will strongly lower loading on a computer as resources won't be spent for virtual machines and a part of the data in the RAM will be used by all copies of the client simultaneously that in a case the machine doesn't happen to virtual. In general who will strongly want some trials on 1 computer, that will receive them...

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
Yes, beginners will have an opportunity earlier to use the best ships and the equipment.


This is double misunderstanding.
First one, the speed at which new players would achieve ability to use equipment more efficiently will only change VERY slightly.
Second is, there's no "best" equipment in EVE...


Skill training speed цith a gain of attributes changes slowly, true. Nevertheless someone will prefer to sit down earlier on a cruiser, than BC, and will install Snake into character's head, and someone will pump over Learnings earlier, and on BC will sit down later, and implants will deliver +4 or even +5. Changes of speed of prorolling now suffice and will suffice, that its players noted.
"The best" equipment really isn't present, but from two equal on ISK with equal pilots it is hardly better than characters using the weapon (or able to use more various weapon) happens the winner more often. Be the winner now or be th winner later - that is question )

Also, hisec peaceful habitats more likely +5 implants, but active pvp warriors are regularly happen podded and install powerful implants it of sense isn't present. There is a sense to learn Learnings - they don't burn down when podding. And, I consider, it is bad to deprive of players of these choices at all.


TheWarpGhost
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:29:00 - [942]
 

\o/ and there was much rejoicing

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:31:00 - [943]
 

Originally by: Saxon
First of all, why do the SP's dont just go to the acount

Because these SP wasn't (wouldn't?) come out of thin air.
these are that character SP and should remain that way.
If you have pre-apocrypha alts with startup learning skills, better for you, but not much.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:32:00 - [944]
 


CA CAP
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:33:00 - [945]
 

THIS IS GREAT!!!

But i think .. we can now change the remap counter from 12 month to 6.!?!?!
We have 2 Extensions each per anno .. so we need 2 remaps per anno.


northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:34:00 - [946]
 

This is GREAT NEWS!!!

Also I think this will help New player as well. I have invited people I know to play eve and some given it a month to try. They were turned off that they had to train learning skills up to get good learning time out of it.

Wish they done this years ago because I know player base would of bene higher because lets face it starting a toon fresh is a pain in the arse.


Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:34:00 - [947]
 

Originally by: CA CAP
THIS IS GREAT!!!

But i think .. we can now change the remap counter from 12 month to 6.!?!?!
We have 2 Extensions each per anno .. so we need 2 remaps per anno.




Explain this... this? How so? And what?

Rex Rotham
Amarr
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:35:00 - [948]
 

Here's an idea - CCP can add a 7x skill called "complexity". It could give a 5% bonus per level to satisfaction for those who feel disenfranchised by learning skills being removed.

Then add a 14x skill to follow it up to provide another 5% bonus per level to satisfaction.

There, all parties are satisfied... those who want a time sink, and those who don't.

Quinthell
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:36:00 - [949]
 

Good idea CCP. Well done.

Kylie Minogues
ISA Istarska Svemirska agencija
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:37:00 - [950]
 

Nice move, CCP. My compliments.
Both sides will prosper, having learning skills removed. Newbies, not having to spend weeks (read: months) of learning learning (Laughing), and veterans, having something more useful, instead wasted SP.
Everybody's happy,...and all of us have a good point, if they feel cheated in a certain point of view....Newbies spent some hard-earned iskies, and a lot of time/effort/mining in small ship/repeating almost no isk-missions,...that won't be reimbursed.
Veterans who have completed learning were proud of it, now having it removed and making everyone equal won't raise that pride much, will it?
After all, we older players really worked our a**es to finish that learning...
Now we will have noobs becoming insta-action players, which is fine by me, pity we didn't have that chance years ago...
And all players will have 12 points gain, having at best 2700 sp/hour, instead of 2772, as it was before.
So, in the end, it still feels kinda bittersweet to me, folks. Even though, in the long run,...it was a good decision.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:41:00 - [951]
 

This is a stealth buff to forum whining!!!!!

The results should be interesting though.

sue denim
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:45:00 - [952]
 

Oh wait I have something to ***** about. "QA Milestones." Wtf are these? Milestone 1: Able to get to login screen. Milestone 2: Able to get to character selection screen. Milestone 3: We're good.

Reuterrev2
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:03:00 - [953]
 

Hi everyone .
Ihave played this game for manny years. i dont think the skill way is good. its better you drop the lame noob turturials and give the new player some senarios instead where the earn the learningskills. as a first prior,i since you logg everything on your server it would be easy to see how manny that acctual are finnishing the turturials.i think alot of player would think they are borring and stop doing them pretty fast becuse of the players that are in the noobcorps.i resantly started a new char and as soon i got in to the game the player in the corp was saying start mining and the isk will come. well the thing is all the fricking marcominers that are in the starter system should be gone so new player have desnt spots to mine in to begin with. i went out to one of the belts and the first thing i see is 4 macromining hulks. they kill arr the roids for the new players so they have to go down to 0.6-7 systems to get a chanse to do some isk if they dont get killed buy the rats first. A sugestion is that no barge or hulks should be able to mine higer then 0.7. thats one way to keep the ballans in the belts for new commers to the game.i dont think the skill stuff has any thing with there leaving to do ..more the meaningless noob missions that kills the phase of the game for them...Shocked

ph47
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:13:00 - [954]
 

whats a learning skill?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:14:00 - [955]
 

Originally by: Tarartia
I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that dismissing the learning skills will be good for newbs, but it does penalize long-term players more than a simple reimbursement of the learning skillpoints compensates for. The trend towards dumbing down the game to the lowest-common denominator is disappointing, as is the argument that 'we aren't going to try for a best-practice solution because it would be too hard'.

As an aside (rant, stop reading now tl;dr ppl) I just trained an alt from scratch and got all the learning skills to level 4 (throw in Cybernetic early on and get a set of +3 implants) and it only took 10 days, so I find the argument that the poor newbs are turned off by the imposing learning skills a non-starter. You play EVE for years not weeks, so HTFU noobs! If your attitude is that you only want to play for a few months and want instant gratification, then CCP should weight the opinion of players who have paid for (multiple) subs over several years higher than the crowd who breeze in, complain, then quit to go play WOW anyway because it is easier. Next CCP will have to give everybody all the level 5 Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship skills because it disadvantages noobs too much. So while we are at it, I want free cap ship skills!


no the game was already dumbed down. to get into hurricane with good skills took 4 months with the double training time and no learning skills.

To get to the same level of skills AND training learning to 4/2 took 3 months.

it wasn't a choice, to get instant gratification you HAD TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS.

Not traning learning skills actully meant you had to wait longer to get into a ship you wanted. THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

Learning skills did not give you a advantage after a year. they paid off in under a month BECAUSE F X2 training time.

each point of learning gave you 2 points. SO you would have 8/6 and be training up a storm with your +10 implants.

There was no choice, you could either, wait 4 months to get into a PvP fit ship. or go for instant pay off and train learning skills to get both the learning skills and the hurricane in 3 months.

WTF

Now if learning skills were somehow something that only benifited you after a long time, like they used to, say it took 1-2 years for them to pay off, then that would be a different story.

but it takes less than 2 months.

Tyslas
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:18:00 - [956]
 

Wooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo



Thankyou CCP \o/

Kylie Minogues
ISA Istarska Svemirska agencija
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:21:00 - [957]
 

Originally by: Reuterrev2
Hi everyone .
the fricking marcominers that are in the starter system should be gone so new player have desnt spots to mine in to begin with. i went out to one of the belts and the first thing i see is 4 macromining hulks. they kill arr the roids for the new players
A sugestion is that no barge or hulks should be able to mine higer then 0.7. thats one way to keep the ballans in the belts for new commers to the game.


Well spoken.
Dunno what the heck is CCP doing about it, lately.
(having a coffee?)
/emote wishes..... a new hulkageddon. Or CCP starting to do their job checking how many players macro mine ice in highsec ie. Check their corp info, 95% are in NPC CORPS.

GOD DANG IT, CCP. DO SOMETHING ABOUT *THAT*. QuestionArrowIdea
(or we will, as alwaysTwisted Evil)

Hex'Caliber
Gallente
Massively Mob
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:32:00 - [958]
 

I know it is not happening but to add any sort of weight to the I's I would like to see a remap too. Particularly after the idea of remaps for plex was dropped, many folks chose radical remaps after the announcement they were incoming and are now fuxed. This change is a drop in the ocean compared to the additional skill training times that will have resulted. As it stands, I am contemplating scrapping two alt accounts as I seriously cba paying for accounts that will have fuxed attribs for the next year.

Speaking to others some feel the same way too, yeah I know, should not have remapped until it was set in concrete. However, how many folks pre train skills due to incoming changes or additions announced in blogs every time a new update is announced, this was no different.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:35:00 - [959]
 

Originally by: Wollari
holy **** ... :) sounds promissing. Less teaching noobs why they should train learnings skills for weeks rather then training something useful to have fun with.


Exactly. As others have said, this will work wonders for new player retention.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.11.26 00:38:00 - [960]
 

Originally by: Garr Anders
Team Yggdrasill ?

Playing DragonQuest IX anyone?


Hint: CCP is an Icelandic company. 1010 years ago, most of the employees' ancestors were Norse pagans.


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