open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog - Learning skills are going away
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32 33 ... : last (67)

Author Topic

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:56:00 - [841]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:49:02
Originally by: john roe
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:30:01
Originally by: john roe
then i want your version of this game because obviously we are playing 2 different types of eve. enjoyment in this game has ended (at least for me) around 2007.
i am here only to see how this game is gonna die.

I, for one, thank you for continuing to pay your subscription and not cluttering up bandwidth. Not only is your subscription money making my Eve a more enjoyable game (see this change), but your refusal to play means it is also less crowded.

Hang in there and keep paying your subscription... Eve will die any day now.




i 'pay' with isk, mate. no RL money for cccp from me.
i guess your elaboration is kinda miss right now, dont you think? ;]

but dont let it stop you from trying to look smart. you will get there one day.
hugs
You mean when you said you're only still around to watch Eve die you were just talking out your ass? Or is the isk magically appearing in your wallet?

I'm guessing the latter since bitter vets claiming doom and gloom and that "Eve is dying" are always on point.

On a more serious note, stop talking ****, or not and carry on. "Eve is dying yada yada".





there isnt much input into this discussion on your part lately, mate
therefor i will close this 'convo' with you.

gn

Zasha Civire
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:56:00 - [842]
 

this is a good move on CCP however the months of training lerning skills coulda been spent training funner skills and doing higher level missions or mining more efficiently ect. did you even consider the fact that new players are going to be geting considerably more sp then the older ones who have not maxed or maxed there lerning skills how are you going to compensate for that? how about give bonuse SP based on how much sp is in the lerning skills and how long they have been playing.

Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:57:00 - [843]
 

Originally by: GillamtheGreat
I am not going to say i am unhappy about this change, but....

There is something to be said here for people who have invested the time into maxing or nearly maxing these skills. They were an awful bore to train. For people with the 4 and 3 mix it probably wasn't as bad, but any higher was weeks or months (maxing them takes about three and a half months with good implants) of not doing anything with your new long term industrial alt, or what have you. This is fine, it was a long term plan, but a simple reimbursement of the SP, although great, removes an element of the long term pay out we would have gotten from the long and boring time we invested into it. The change is beneficial to new player retention, and the game overall, I agree, but I think rewarding those who took the long term approach, would be more fair minded. A simple way to do that, I think, would be to award more SP to everyone. I will throw out a hypothetical figure of maybe 125% of invested SP, as opposed to 100%. Any player who trained learning skills had at least some interest in the long view, but those of us who took the time to max them would see the greatest gain, just as if the system was left the same. Using the above figures, a player who had spent the time training all the learning skills to max would get 6,720,000 SP as opposed to 5,376,000. Even without optimally remapping a character this is less than one years worth of benefit over someone who uses the 4 and 3 setup, but at least it is something, considering the time invested.

I do enjoy this change, but I think everyone will feel much better about it if you rewarded players for the investments they put in the future of their characters. I know we should think of the newbies, but it cant hurt to think of your long term players a little bit more as wellWink


hmmm... i dunno, i'm happy getting back my 3.47 million sp, and i can finally train heavy drones without remapping and even have enough sp for maxing X1 skills [subsystems] that i'm not currently optimized for, but then, i feel like CCP still owes me something, not the, all those bland memories of being stuck to specific ship for months.... maybe a token, a teddy bear, a hug... i don't know... hehehe..

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:58:00 - [844]
 

Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Tippia
5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).
= 32.

I would like to know that the cap increase is going to happen. As I'm already at 30.6 or so on one stat...so adding more to the base would push me even further past the current cap.

Or am I wrong in my understanding about max stats?
The current max is 33 (5 base + 10 remap + 10 skill + 5 implant = 30 + 10% from Learning V).

Ark Ferroraider
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:58:00 - [845]
 

Not the best innovation, in my opinion.

Yes, players will be glad to receive additional stats and skillpoints . Yes, beginners will have an opportunity earlier to use the best ships and the equipment. But... At Learnings is (was?) one very important function for on-line games - restraint of multi-accounting.

I will try to explain. That the new character has quickly found the enough force based on skills, it was necessary to spend some time on Learning-s, and this time is comparable with life period тр an trial-account. That is, to make on trial-account a good suicide-gunker, scanner-scout, a trading alt it was almost impossible. It was necessary or upgrade an account or to reconcile that trial-account alt which can be used some times, then to forget about it and to make a new alt - a ****.

Now such alts anymore won't be a ****, and their "paid-freedom" - remains. It is necessary to congratulate only both players, and CCP command on acquisition of the additional problems with the multiaccounting.

A problem with simultaneous start on the same computer a trial account together with any other account(s) competent multiaccount-holder to solve PERHAPS though and with any difficulties.

And also, the people specially restricting for the sake of faster growth of experience of their's characters in the future and obtaining thus of some game superiority over "contemporaries" - it has appeared, restricted itself in vain. Now to these players (and it is a lot of them), I think, is very insulting.

More logical would be to award acceleration of prorolling of characters with which play actively. For example, to add a Tutorial missions for which performance would be given skillpoints. For example, if for a moment after Downtime the character learns Learning group skill - his mentor-agent offers to this day 2-3 missions: calculated for solo passage, difficult for the young character (forcing beforehand to swing fighting and navigation skills), but at successful performance of this missions giving a bonus in Learning-s. The size of a bonus - prorolling of the character was accelerated by the active game a maximum in 2-2.5 times. And for achievement of a following level of skill from Learning-s groups mentor-agent give single mission for which performance the award would be also in the skillpoints, but already in other skills. In which skills - let depends on a bloodline of the character. The epic arc would turn out, specifically connected with character's training at NPS-school.

Newbies - people would receive their's own, "newbie's", stimulus and interest to the active game. A "school" missions will replace and overcompense the 2X promotion skills speed bonus. Newbies - one-time alts - would remain with what.

---
Total, I remained is dissatisfied, though I and the beginner...

P.S. For certain my English is bad Rolling Eyes Sorry. Very much it wanted to express, differently I at all wouldn't write at this forum.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:01:00 - [846]
 

:thumbs up:

Jita Alt666
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:03:00 - [847]
 

Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
Not the best innovation, in my opinion.

Yes, players will be glad to receive additional stats and skillpoints . Yes, beginners will have an opportunity earlier to use the best ships and the equipment. But... At Learnings is (was?) one very important function for on-line games - restraint of multi-accounting.

I will try to explain. That the new character has quickly found the enough force based on skills, it was necessary to spend some time on Learning-s, and this time is comparable with life period тр an trial-account. That is, to make on trial-account a good suicide-gunker, scanner-scout, a trading alt it was almost impossible. It was necessary or upgrade an account or to reconcile that trial-account alt which can be used some times, then to forget about it and to make a new alt - a ****.

Now such alts anymore won't be a ****, and their "paid-freedom" - remains. It is necessary to congratulate only both players, and CCP command on acquisition of the additional problems with the multiaccounting.

A problem with simultaneous start on the same computer a trial account together with any other account(s) competent multiaccount-holder to solve PERHAPS though and with any difficulties.

And also, the people specially restricting for the sake of faster growth of experience of their's characters in the future and obtaining thus of some game superiority over "contemporaries" - it has appeared, restricted itself in vain. Now to these players (and it is a lot of them), I think, is very insulting.

More logical would be to award acceleration of prorolling of characters with which play actively. For example, to add a Tutorial missions for which performance would be given skillpoints. For example, if for a moment after Downtime the character learns Learning group skill - his mentor-agent offers to this day 2-3 missions: calculated for solo passage, difficult for the young character (forcing beforehand to swing fighting and navigation skills), but at successful performance of this missions giving a bonus in Learning-s. The size of a bonus - prorolling of the character was accelerated by the active game a maximum in 2-2.5 times. And for achievement of a following level of skill from Learning-s groups mentor-agent give single mission for which performance the award would be also in the skillpoints, but already in other skills. In which skills - let depends on a bloodline of the character. The epic arc would turn out, specifically connected with character's training at NPS-school.

Newbies - people would receive their's own, "newbie's", stimulus and interest to the active game. A "school" missions will replace and overcompense the 2X promotion skills speed bonus. Newbies - one-time alts - would remain with what.

---
Total, I remained is dissatisfied, though I and the beginner...

P.S. For certain my English is bad Rolling Eyes Sorry. Very much it wanted to express, differently I at all wouldn't write at this forum.


CCP want multiple accounts. Remember it is impossible to have a trial and paying account online at same time on same ip address.

RustyAftaBurner
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:03:00 - [848]
 

ditto thumbs up

can we get a free remap with this as well ? :)

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:03:00 - [849]
 

Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Tippia

5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).
= 32.

I would like to know that the cap increase is going to happen. As I'm already at 30.6 or so on one stat...so adding more to the base would push me even further past the current cap.

Or am I wrong in my understanding about max stats?

Maybe everyone should get a free neural remap as well...

-G


You aren't wrong.
I've narrowed a net loss to only 3(realistical) combinations of skills (implants are not affecting the end result), in which this change would net in a loss.

10/10/Learning V - 2.60% training speed loss
10/9/Learning V - 1.42% training speed loss
9/10/Learning V - 0.22% training speed loss

One unrealistical combination would be:
10/10/Learning IV - 0.79% training speed loss

In all other cases, this will net in a gain.

Sarah Teladi
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:03:00 - [850]
 

<3333333333333333

I can has BS 5 for xmas chachacha \o/


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:04:00 - [851]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 21:07:39
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 19:43:16
AS A 5+ YEAR PLAYER I HAVE JUST RESUBBED FOR THIS CHANGE! **** YEAH CCP!

learning skills do not make the make easier for older players.

removing them does not make it it so newer players are somehow going to catch up with my beefy 40million sp over night.



gogo ccp!


If I had played for 5+ years and only had 40mil SP to show for it, I too would be dancing. It shows you used the time to train some fun and instantly rewarding skills and now you get free max learning to boot.

You have won eve.






I've already got maxed out learning skills.

but not for the 1st 2years. yes it really does make that big a difference.

do the math it's ****ed up, I trained learning to 3/3 at start, and then just played normally. And i watched as my corpmates started to really pull ahead, it was nuts. So then I had to play for like 4 months maxing out learning skills at 2 year of playing this game.

Thankfully my corpmates gave me some plus 5's. but you know what? I didn't log in for those 4 months because it was SOOOO BORING.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:05:00 - [852]
 

Originally by: Ark Ferroraider
Yes, beginners will have an opportunity earlier to use the best ships and the equipment.


This is double misunderstanding.
First one, the speed at which new players would achieve ability to use equipment more efficiently will only change VERY slightly.
Second is, there's no "best" equipment in EVE...

Mirei Jun
Right to Rule
THE UNTHINKABLES
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:06:00 - [853]
 

Excellent, its about time.

Hopefully this can start a trend of management making the decision to revisit many of the core features and ideas which actually make Eve popular, yet are extremely flawed in one way or another.

The way in which learning is being reimbursed is also great -good work.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:14:00 - [854]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 21:07:39
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 19:43:16
AS A 5+ YEAR PLAYER I HAVE JUST RESUBBED FOR THIS CHANGE! **** YEAH CCP!

learning skills do not make the make easier for older players.

removing them does not make it it so newer players are somehow going to catch up with my beefy 40million sp over night.



gogo ccp!


If I had played for 5+ years and only had 40mil SP to show for it, I too would be dancing. It shows you used the time to train some fun and instantly rewarding skills and now you get free max learning to boot.

You have won eve.






I've already got maxed out learning skills.

but not for the 1st 2years. yes it really does make that big a difference.

do the math it's ****ed up, I trained learning to 3/3 at start, and then just played normally. And i watched as my corpmates started to really pull ahead, it was nuts. So then I had to play for like 4 months maxing out learning skills at 2 year of playing this game.

Thankfully my corpmates gave me some plus 5's. but you know what? I didn't log in for those 4 months because it was SOOOO BORING.



"3/3" learnings are not possible, barring some very unlikely podding/non-updated clone events.

Until 2006 you had to train basics to 5 in order to train advanced at all.

Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:22:00 - [855]
 

So CCP Does listen to its customers? Shocked

Admittedly, only if they whine for 5 years about a particular subject..
Anywho, good on ya for doing this. Learning skills was the dumbest timesink ever invented.. only affecting already helpless noobs.

Still not enough to get me to resub after current one expires Confused

Baroness D
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:22:00 - [856]
 

Okay first, great move too long coming.

But did you have to remove the skillbooks now? Any noob starting today till the 12th is still going to have to train up skills at least the 1x ones to be able to train at a sufficient rate. These poor people are gonna get gouged by traders on the market which won't do much to instill a lot of game loyalty in new players. Also what happens when you miss your-self imposed deadline? And I really mean when, not if.

ph47
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:22:00 - [857]
 

lol, good reading

I like this blog :) Laughing

DaktariisBitch
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:24:00 - [858]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Tippia

5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).
= 32.

I would like to know that the cap increase is going to happen. As I'm already at 30.6 or so on one stat...so adding more to the base would push me even further past the current cap.

Or am I wrong in my understanding about max stats?

Maybe everyone should get a free neural remap as well...

-G


You aren't wrong.
I've narrowed a net loss to only 3(realistical) combinations of skills (implants are not affecting the end result), in which this change would net in a loss.

10/10/Learning V - 2.60% training speed loss
10/9/Learning V - 1.42% training speed loss
9/10/Learning V - 0.22% training speed loss

One unrealistical combination would be:
10/10/Learning IV - 0.79% training speed loss

In all other cases, this will net in a gain.


All I'm saying is that people in those three categories should be given additional compensation by CCP. In addition to the lost training time, they have also invested months in getting to those levels. The months of training should have a compensatable value attached to them, as well as the reduced training time they invested so heavily to obtain. I have four PAID accounts with characters at 10/10/Learning V. It's ridiculous for CCP to just ignore that in favor of helping newbies who never invested the time/ISK/real life money. I really am glad they are making the change, because I think it will secure the game long-term and help out new players. They just shouldn't be screwing over long-term veterans in the process.

Ja'ihra
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:24:00 - [859]
 



Lets start with one observation: You are truly horrible at quoting.

Followed by, how is that isk taken away from them? It was taken when they bought the learning skills, this change does not affect that in any way. They dont lose anything, they only gain alot of time since they dont need to train those skills.


That's because I don't post much but my writing or copy-paste skills has nothing to do with the subject.

People grinded for a month or longer to get the money to buy those skills. They just bought and injected(mostly)useless books. I think that +2 implants would have been a better investment.
A refund would be on its place, or not?. I don't see how this benefits those players. That's all.

Besides that I really liked the philosophy behind the learning skills in EVE. It's simulates RL. But that's a different story.





Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:26:00 - [860]
 

Originally by: Daktariis*****
All I'm saying is that people in those three categories should be given additional compensation by CCP.

Say thanks they didn't just banned all characters and forced us all start anew (they could, per EULA).
(Translation: What they SHOULD, is not our right to decide)

Activa
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:29:00 - [861]
 

The indepth character difference is an important factor in an MMO to set it apart from other MMO cause you're not the same as the other player with kind of the same attributes and only difference in gear.
CCP, this may backfire in the long run as it did with other MMO.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:31:00 - [862]
 

Originally by: Activa
The indepth character difference is an important factor in an MMO to set it apart from other MMO cause you're not the same as the other player with kind of the same attributes and only difference in gear.
CCP, this may backfire in the long run as it did with other MMO.

Nobrainer choices don't make characters different. Try again.

Tido Maliyu
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:32:00 - [863]
 

What if current remaps took into account training a lot of long training skills?

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:33:00 - [864]
 

CCP's Newest Hire

I think this guy will fit in well with the current crowd at CCP responsible for this decision.

devonii
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:35:00 - [865]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Daktariis*****
All I'm saying is that people in those three categories should be given additional compensation by CCP.

Say thanks they didn't just banned all characters and forced us all start anew (they could, per EULA).
(Translation: What they SHOULD, is not our right to decide)


Yes, you are right. They could fire everyone in their entire company in one fell swoop. THAT would be genious.
(Translation: What they should, they SHOULD because the people in this game pay their paychecks...and some of us have been paying their paychecks for many, many years.)

Angelo427
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:38:00 - [866]
 

GET THE SIX FLAGS GUY

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:38:00 - [867]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 25/11/2010 21:44:07
Tonto Auri said " It takes 8 years AT LEAST. Longer for when you didn't have all skills maxed, if at all.
The "72 SP/h" number won't change as long as training speed formula does not."

No it does not take 8 years at least all the time. It can take 8 years or it can take much less. Take this Scenario. You invest the learning SP in your current skill plan, later a change of circumstance happen and you change skill plans. Perhaps new skills, perhaps a change of direction whatever the reason that new skill plan now earns 622,080 less skill points a year and take longer then train with the new change over the old change.

The new change makes you less adaptable and take longer to train changes in your skill plan. The 8 year number apply to such a small number of players I dont see it as a good number to use. Most players do not have static never changing skill plans. Anyone maxed out in the current system changing skill plans over the next, 8, 5 or 2 years will train slower. I am not saying the change is bad. Just pointing out the facts some people have missed.




Tonto Auri said "Again - do you really care about any potential loss you could experience mid-July of year 2018 ?"
You can experience a loss in 2011 or 2012 not as long as 2018. You could spend 2011 training your new skill plan slower then today. That's a loss in less then 2 years time. What happens in 3 years time when a new skill set comes out and I want to spend all year training those skills? I am at a loss over today as the skill plan takes longer to train then today. Does the loss matter, perhaps not but it's a loss.



Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:42:00 - [868]
 

Finally.

Those skills only made starting the game harder for total newbies, nothing else.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:43:00 - [869]
 

What we need is a player's union. Smile

While this decision is lame, framing it as a 'gift' is lame, and the simple alternative of removing (and reimbursing) all tier 2 learning skills (in conjunction with nerfing the noob training bonus) is infinitely superior, it's slightly less horrific than many of CCP's recent decisions.

While having my training speed reduced sucks, I feel particularly badly for the new folks who have done the 5/4 training grind and now are just out the ISK and the time. (And no, CCP's dishonest attempt to mollify them doesn't add up.)

Dee Cryptor
Posted - 2010.11.25 21:43:00 - [870]
 

TLDR it all, and I agree the learning skills are a chore and a reason new players do not continue. I have 73m sp's in learning :}


Pages: first : previous : ... 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32 33 ... : last (67)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only