open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog - Learning skills are going away
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 24 25 26 27 [28] 29 30 31 32 ... : last (67)

Author Topic

Linsy Soronely
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:18:00 - [811]
 

Originally by: Rian O'Shea
I have all 5 learning skills. How the F can I now feel superior over other people CCP!




I agree. Time to take implants to ten I say.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:18:00 - [812]
 

So there are now 23502385203 threads about learnign skills.

Random Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:19:00 - [813]
 

Originally by: devonii
Well, I actually looked at training skills and the implants as a long-term investment. I spent a LOT of ISK on them and invested a lot of time in them. Since I have perfect learning skills on all my characters, and will now be loosing out, CCP basically just **** on me to help out a bunch of newbies who haven't invested anywhere near what I have over the past four years. IF CCP is going to take away the skillbooks without actually reimbursing the cost, they are stealing ISK that we invested to buy the skillbooks while giving newbies the same "skillbooks" for free. In addition, all the time and investment that we spent to get to lvl 5 is being taken away. Even if it's 1.4 attributes difference at the end of the day, it should be reimbursed. Giving everyone the same treatment is punishing a group of long-term players in the game so they can keep everyone else happy. 1.4 attributes of the top advanced learning skills is basically the same, when you include not refunding the ISK we spent on buying the skillbooks, as CCP taking two plexes from us and not giving us anything in return.

Thanks and Merry Christmas. Please don't give us any gifts like this going forward.

Disappointed and ****ed!!!

Long as CCP gets a couple new players though, they shouldn't mind losing long-term 4 and 5 year players like me for a few months I guess.




With the increased sp accumulation you had due to training learning skills after this change and once you have spent your reimbursed points you should be on more sp than someone who started at the same time as you but did no learning .

Ja'ihra
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:19:00 - [814]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/11/2010 20:08:33
Originally by: Ja'ihra
Edited by: Ja''ihra on 25/11/2010 20:03:09
Quote:
So, no love for the new players that just started the game and invested most(if not all) of there money in learning skills?

Well they do get max learning skills + SP reimbursement of whatever they already trained, i would call that quite some love. It isnt as if something is taken from them.


Hmm, blog says:
All skillpoints invested in learning skills will be reimbursed, including all the fiddly corner cases. If you have 2,012,692 SP in learning, you will find yourself down those skills, but with 2,012,692 skillpoints to redistribute.

I don't read anything about max learning reimbursed, while not having them trained only injected.


I also didnt say that. But those people now dont have learning skills then. After this change they effectively have max learning skills. So nothing is taken away from them, they only can skip training learnign skills, so how are they hurt?

16 trillion ISK is taken away from them.

Fuyu'no Kiri
Beauvoir-Bourdieu
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:21:00 - [815]
 

Edited by: Fuyu''no Kiri on 25/11/2010 20:43:56
Edited by: Fuyu''no Kiri on 25/11/2010 20:28:26
Originally by: Lockefox
So, can we please get a CCP response on what the new MAXIMUM attribute actually is? An explanation about how remap points will work from here forward would also be appreciated.

Is the maximum added still +11?
Do we still need to waste +1 on charisma?
Is 20 the new base attribute? (4+12 != 20)

I'm no CCP Anybody but, as they allready said: anything implant or remap-wise remains untouched. So the new "standard" attrib is:
- former base: 4
- addition to base, compensating for skills removed: 12

Originally by: I'thari
What would have taken to train skills I'l use those SP in is irrelevent, because I already have that SP and all the time it'd took me to get it I spent already traning learning skills that are now removed. So, in terms of SP I get nothing.


That's to say you don't train skills anymore, already having all those you wanted? Please take a moment to also consider how longer it would have taken you to train all your "concrete" stuff hadn't you had the learning skills in the first place. And now, you get back your SP and you still have the same attribute-boost running on.

Quote:
But new system makes me learn as if I'd have 5/4 learning skills which irritates me. CCP does nt reimburse that in any way, only thing that can be considersd as reimbursment of those 72sp/hour is difference between 5/4 and 5/5 learning skills whch is less than 5M.


Ok, not exactly the same boost. But woah, you lose circa 2.5% learning speed in the palothological case. Big issue!

But you could look at things differently, away from the gory details, and consider that the change simply takes the 0.02% improvement per level away from implants. That's a change you could find a lot of good reasons to. But you prefer to complain that your losing something.

That has always been the problem with role playing games anyway: people often stick to wielding figures, and sometimes forget about using imagination ;)

- remappable: 4 (3 for charisma).

There's absolutely no reason you shouldn't keep the possibility to allot 11 of your total 19 reaffectable points to any one particular attrib of your choice.

Edit: ok, I was a bit off there. Maximum reallocatable is 14 points. So you don't even lose 2.5%.

Quote:
My actual whining aside, I will be rather peeved if I lose my 33 primary attribute on all 3 of my characters. I specifically planned and trained for that boost, and to have the attribute taken away will leave a sour taste in my mouth.

New max attrib should be 4+12+11+5 (implant) = 32. That's because the compensation for the learning learning skill doesn't account for implants. Otoh, you get a refund for the skillpoints invested in maxing your attribs. Math as already been done: should be 9 years game time before it starts to have any kind of negative impact.

Quote:
Also, as a closing note:
CCP, I am rather annoyed with you guys for "shotgunning" this. With every other major game-changing feature, you took time to hear from the players... for this, we are just given a pill to swallow. It may be that the game is better in the long run for this, but I feel as if I was steamrolled by your decision.

Then you missed the (short) passages where we were told that CCP has discussed it with the CSM. You also fail to believe that CCP reads the forums on there own EVE website.


Oh, wait... I'm clearly not adding any new stuff, there. And after all, if people didn't spot previous answers to their question, they certainly won't spot mine either. So let's go pew pew ;)

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:22:00 - [816]
 

Originally by: Calenthia
It seems, from reading the blogpost and a lot of the comments in this thread, that the ones who benefit from this are players who are just starting (or about to start (I'm looking at you, Steam with your 75% off atm)), players who never bothered to create an intelligent skilltraining schedule and invest SP for long-term gain, and players who spent their SP on learning skills and have played long enough to benefit from them.

This leaves only the fourth group: people who have recently spent a lot of time investing in their learning skills instead of the "fun skills", and have yet to profit from the time spent learning these. Unfortunately, I am one of these people. I understand that we will get reimbursed for the skill points, but it still feels a bit sour in knowing that these past weeks could have been spent on other, more useful, skills. We will no longer have the joy of slowly catching up to the people who started earlier but never bothered spending points on the learning skills. All that money i just spent on skillbooks hurts a bit as well, but not as much as losing the long-term advantage of spending my skillpoints intelligently.

I applaud CCP for making a decision which benefits most of the playerbase though. I know I am in a serious minority compared to all you multiyear subscriber vets.


It is unfortunate that you are just at that stage, however think of all the new folks who will stick around now who you can get to kill.

The fact that you were going to be spending your skill points intelligently, would pretty much make me think you are not going to have too much of a problem getting an advantage in many other areas of Eve. It is still a very skillful and intelligent game.

Welcome to Eve :)

Shelley09
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:24:00 - [817]
 

intriguing thread, i almost feel like a should complain about something just for more puns(hehe newbies) ..Anywho.. I support the idea as long as are training times are not disadvantaged(exluding noob training boosts ect) Laughing

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:24:00 - [818]
 

Originally by: john roe
yes, cause when YOU were born you could walk, run, dance and do all kind of stuff from day 1.


Nor you can do this in EVE from day 1.

Quote:
this particular change means nothing to me.

Then why you complaining?

Quote:
i dont care about ISK nor SPs (my chars have stopped around 100-120M. they got all they need). all i care is that eve is evolving into wrong direction.

Nothing was changed IN GAME by this decision. (Aside a few happy customers, and a few stupid whiners).

Quote:
simplyfing this game you are actualy killing it.

It is not a simplification. It's merely clipping of a useless loops. Simplification would be change in item usage requirements, for example.

Quote:
eve-online was a parallel universe once.
was mysterious and epic.

What was changed? Specifically. Point finger, if you can.

Quote:
and cccp lost that magic at some point. making really bad dev. decisions.

It's you lost it, not CCP. you just grew up and learned of it, thus...
Quote:
And they have raised their voices and proclaimed: "It's MAGIC!!"
"No, - he replied, - I just know how it's done..."

You know how it's done - you lost that "magic" feeling. Sad for you, but not a case enough to be stupid... dig your sore brain and recover the "magic". If it didn't corroded yet into marasmus...

Stephanie Broadchest
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:27:00 - [819]
 

Edited by: Stephanie Broadchest on 25/11/2010 20:40:30
Between neural remaps and now removing learning skills two things are happening.
The first is characters are greatly devalued.
They are also cheaper for new players to buy high SP characters. Older characters are worth alot less.
The market proves this.
Second, the total learning time for all skills has been greatly decreased.
Granted it would still take many years to learn everything but that time is greatly diminished.
Don't get me wrong I am happy about this but these are two things to consider.
You are changing a most basic CORE element with wide spreading ramifications.
I hope a bad nights sleep is not the cause of this change as it appears to be.
This is not April 1st is it?
Did the person who decided this have his computer die or something?

I wonder if this is the fastest growing thread ever, if not which one is?


DaktariisBitch
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:27:00 - [820]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: devonii
Well, I actually looked at training skills and the implants as a long-term investment. I spent a LOT of ISK on them and invested a lot of time in them. Since I have perfect learning skills on all my characters, and will now be loosing out, CCP basically just **** on me to help out a bunch of newbies who haven't invested anywhere near what I have over the past four years. IF CCP is going to take away the skillbooks without actually reimbursing the cost, they are stealing ISK that we invested to buy the skillbooks while giving newbies the same "skillbooks" for free. In addition, all the time and investment that we spent to get to lvl 5 is being taken away. Even if it's 1.4 attributes difference at the end of the day, it should be reimbursed. Giving everyone the same treatment is punishing a group of long-term players in the game so they can keep everyone else happy. 1.4 attributes of the top advanced learning skills is basically the same, when you include not refunding the ISK we spent on buying the skillbooks, as CCP taking two plexes from us and not giving us anything in return.

Thanks and Merry Christmas. Please don't give us any gifts like this going forward.

Disappointed and ****ed!!!

Long as CCP gets a couple new players though, they shouldn't mind losing long-term 4 and 5 year players like me for a few months I guess.



Stupid much? What is stolen from you? You dont lose ANYTHING. Well to be completely honest it is possible your max learning speed goes a bit down. However as calculated it will be arround 8 years until you have less effective SP due to this change, because you now first get 4.5M SP.


Over the last year, I've steadily passed tons of players who have been in this game longer than me. I did it by investing in learning skills and creating smart training plans. Now...they will all be training at the exact same level that I am. Also, we don't GET 4.5 million SP. We already had it. They aren't "giving" us anything. They are taking away 1.4 attributes that would amount to stealing a plex from someone. If a player does that to you, it's acceptable and part of the game. For the Sansha to be something that "giveth and taketh away" is part of the game. For CCP to do it...that is NOT acceptable. If they want to do it right, then they need to make it right for the people who invested more. I'm unclear why that's not just common sense to everyone.

Zikic
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:28:00 - [821]
 

Are we forced to remap after this happens? I have a character with base 3 charisma that I've been avoiding remaps on.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:29:00 - [822]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:30:01
Originally by: john roe
then i want your version of this game because obviously we are playing 2 different types of eve. enjoyment in this game has ended (at least for me) around 2007.
i am here only to see how this game is gonna die.

I, for one, thank you for continuing to pay your subscription and not cluttering up bandwidth. Not only is your subscription money making my Eve a more enjoyable game (see this change), but your refusal to play means it is also less crowded.

Hang in there and keep paying your subscription... Eve will die any day now.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:32:00 - [823]
 

Originally by: Ja'ihra
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/11/2010 20:08:33
Originally by: Ja'ihra
Edited by: Ja''ihra on 25/11/2010 20:03:09
Quote:
So, no love for the new players that just started the game and invested most(if not all) of there money in learning skills?

Well they do get max learning skills + SP reimbursement of whatever they already trained, i would call that quite some love. It isnt as if something is taken from them.


Hmm, blog says:
All skillpoints invested in learning skills will be reimbursed, including all the fiddly corner cases. If you have 2,012,692 SP in learning, you will find yourself down those skills, but with 2,012,692 skillpoints to redistribute.

I don't read anything about max learning reimbursed, while not having them trained only injected.


I also didnt say that. But those people now dont have learning skills then. After this change they effectively have max learning skills. So nothing is taken away from them, they only can skip training learnign skills, so how are they hurt?

16 trillion ISK is taken away from them.


Lets start with one observation: You are truly horrible at quoting.

Followed by, how is that isk taken away from them? It was taken when they bought the learning skills, this change does not affect that in any way. They dont lose anything, they only gain alot of time since they dont need to train those skills.

Rico Death
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:32:00 - [824]
 

What affect will this have on characters that have been remapped for specific skills? i.e. Weapons and Spaceship command (Perc and Will).

IDK if this has been asked and answered yet, too many pages to scroll through lawl.

Thanks for the early christmas present CCP!!! Woot!

Thune Vorpal
The Night Crew
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:32:00 - [825]
 

So happy I trained my learning skills to 4 and not to 5. If feel sorry for the players who trained them to 5 and are getting a slightly reduced learning rate than they currently have. ( That says don't invest in an any mmo long term since it's always changing. Enjoy it for now.)

Being a relatively new player, I'm very happy to have the extra skill points to spend.

I wonder if the next part of the gift is a free remap.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:34:00 - [826]
 

Originally by: Rico Death
What affect will this have on characters that have been remapped for specific skills? i.e. Weapons and Spaceship command (Perc and Will).

IDK if this has been asked and answered yet, too many pages to scroll through lawl.

Thanks for the early christmas present CCP!!! Woot!

Nothing?

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:35:00 - [827]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: john roe
yes, cause when YOU were born you could walk, run, dance and do all kind of stuff from day 1.


Nor you can do this in EVE from day 1.

Quote:
this particular change means nothing to me.

Then why you complaining?

Quote:
i dont care about ISK nor SPs (my chars have stopped around 100-120M. they got all they need). all i care is that eve is evolving into wrong direction.

Nothing was changed IN GAME by this decision. (Aside a few happy customers, and a few stupid whiners).

Quote:
simplyfing this game you are actualy killing it.

It is not a simplification. It's merely clipping of a useless loops. Simplification would be change in item usage requirements, for example.

Quote:
eve-online was a parallel universe once.
was mysterious and epic.

What was changed? Specifically. Point finger, if you can.

Quote:
and cccp lost that magic at some point. making really bad dev. decisions.

It's you lost it, not CCP. you just grew up and learned of it, thus...
Quote:
And they have raised their voices and proclaimed: "It's MAGIC!!"
"No, - he replied, - I just know how it's done..."

You know how it's done - you lost that "magic" feeling. Sad for you, but not a case enough to be stupid... dig your sore brain and recover the "magic". If it didn't corroded yet into marasmus...



if i would have to point out some specific date/moment in this game when things took a wrong turn i would say :
- when freighters were introduced.
then eve was taken to the whole different level.
total, massive and unstoppable.

from that point on it didnt matter how many POSes you have destroyed, how many enemy battleships you have torn appart cause, thanks to freighters, you could, literally drown enemy in your reinforcements.

'Nor you can do this in EVE from day 1.'
well, there is a slight of a difference now, dont you think?
between training learning skills for a month or two(?) AND going right into what you want now.

Deliceous
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:35:00 - [828]
 

Finally - Please don't back down off of this!!

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:38:00 - [829]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:30:01
Originally by: john roe
then i want your version of this game because obviously we are playing 2 different types of eve. enjoyment in this game has ended (at least for me) around 2007.
i am here only to see how this game is gonna die.

I, for one, thank you for continuing to pay your subscription and not cluttering up bandwidth. Not only is your subscription money making my Eve a more enjoyable game (see this change), but your refusal to play means it is also less crowded.

Hang in there and keep paying your subscription... Eve will die any day now.




i 'pay' with isk, mate. no RL money for cccp from me.
i guess your elaboration is kinda miss right now, dont you think? ;]

but dont let it stop you from trying to look smart. you will get there one day.
hugs

Njana Ti
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:39:00 - [830]
 

Nothing is lost for players who have trained all learning skills to 5.

We had the higher learning speed after the training and profited from it over time.

Now even those invested skillspoints are free for a new distribution. Nobody lost anything, players with 5/5 still have more SP to distribute and always will have more SP compared to somebody who did not do the training torture...

5m SP for redistribution? Oh yes please!!! *awaits xmas*


Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:39:00 - [831]
 

Originally by: Rico Death
What affect will this have on characters that have been remapped for specific skills? i.e. Weapons and Spaceship command (Perc and Will).

IDK if this has been asked and answered yet, too many pages to scroll through lawl.

Thanks for the early christmas present CCP!!! Woot!


we are talking about the learning skills being abolished and instead +12 points will be added to each attribute [unremappable], no change will come the the remappable points, atm, i'm 29/8/8/8/29 [4/4 on mem/int w/ 4 on learning, +4 implants on mem/int only, and the (+3) accelerator], i expect to get 33/20/20/20/33, only getting 4 points on mem and int, having trained 8 points each of them.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:44:00 - [832]
 

Originally by: Fuyu'no Kiri
I'm no CCP Anybody but, as they allready said: anything implant or remap-wise remains untouched. So the new "standard" attrib is:
- former base: 4
- addition to base, compensating for skills removed: 12
No. Former base was 5; new base is 17.
In the remapping interface, it may look like it's currently 4, but since the attribute minimum is 5, that first point isn't actually remappable at all, and the max you can throw at any one attribute beyond the minimum is 10 for a raw attribute max of 15. With the new system, the minimum (and maximum) is simply 12pts higher 17 and 27, respectively.
Quote:
- remappable: 4 (3 for charisma).
No. Remappable: 3 (2 for charisma) for a total of 14 points. Again, it may look like it's 4 in the UI, but that last point cannot actually be moved.
Quote:
New max attrib should be 4+12+11+5 (implant) = 32.
Yes, but not with those numbers:
5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:45:00 - [833]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:49:02
Originally by: john roe
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 25/11/2010 20:30:01
Originally by: john roe
then i want your version of this game because obviously we are playing 2 different types of eve. enjoyment in this game has ended (at least for me) around 2007.
i am here only to see how this game is gonna die.

I, for one, thank you for continuing to pay your subscription and not cluttering up bandwidth. Not only is your subscription money making my Eve a more enjoyable game (see this change), but your refusal to play means it is also less crowded.

Hang in there and keep paying your subscription... Eve will die any day now.




i 'pay' with isk, mate. no RL money for cccp from me.
i guess your elaboration is kinda miss right now, dont you think? ;]

but dont let it stop you from trying to look smart. you will get there one day.
hugs
You mean when you said you're only still around to watch Eve die you were just talking out your ass? Or is the isk magically appearing in your wallet?

I'm guessing the latter since bitter vets claiming doom and gloom and that "Eve is dying" are always on point.

On a more serious note, stop talking ****, or not and carry on. "Eve is dying yada yada".


Lahnius
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:46:00 - [834]
 

I'll take a double cheeseburger and a large order of fries ... no i dont want a coke, i want a pepsi ... what, no pepsi? FINE, i'll take the coke ...Mad

LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:48:00 - [835]
 

so ppl who respeced for let's say charisma and memory to train all leadership stuff etc etc r now being screwed over since skills will train slower OR u will add those 2mil sp into leadershp and will be left over with charisma/memory for next 10 months ? bull**** ;x

GillamtheGreat
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:50:00 - [836]
 

I am not going to say i am unhappy about this change, but....

There is something to be said here for people who have invested the time into maxing or nearly maxing these skills. They were an awful bore to train. For people with the 4 and 3 mix it probably wasn't as bad, but any higher was weeks or months (maxing them takes about three and a half months with good implants) of not doing anything with your new long term industrial alt, or what have you. This is fine, it was a long term plan, but a simple reimbursement of the SP, although great, removes an element of the long term pay out we would have gotten from the long and boring time we invested into it. The change is beneficial to new player retention, and the game overall, I agree, but I think rewarding those who took the long term approach, would be more fair minded. A simple way to do that, I think, would be to award more SP to everyone. I will throw out a hypothetical figure of maybe 125% of invested SP, as opposed to 100%. Any player who trained learning skills had at least some interest in the long view, but those of us who took the time to max them would see the greatest gain, just as if the system was left the same. Using the above figures, a player who had spent the time training all the learning skills to max would get 6,720,000 SP as opposed to 5,376,000. Even without optimally remapping a character this is less than one years worth of benefit over someone who uses the 4 and 3 setup, but at least it is something, considering the time invested.

I do enjoy this change, but I think everyone will feel much better about it if you rewarded players for the investments they put in the future of their characters. I know we should think of the newbies, but it cant hurt to think of your long term players a little bit more as wellWink

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:51:00 - [837]
 

Page 28 already?! Shocked

Also \o/ it's about time.

khalsou
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:51:00 - [838]
 

I actually find it BS.
I been spending lots of time in learning and now decided to remove them, the skills are part of the game and should be staying their, thats EvE. You train yourself to be bigger and better and with extra the learning skills might adjust the learning time for the skill removing that removes the being of EvE

Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:51:00 - [839]
 

Originally by: Tippia

5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).
= 32.

I would like to know that the cap increase is going to happen. As I'm already at 30.6 or so on one stat...so adding more to the base would push me even further past the current cap.

Or am I wrong in my understanding about max stats?

Maybe everyone should get a free neural remap as well...

-G

Illadelph Justice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:54:00 - [840]
 

THIS IS WHAT I AM THANKFUL FOR THIS THANKSGIVING


Pages: first : previous : ... 24 25 26 27 [28] 29 30 31 32 ... : last (67)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only