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GODS H4ND
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:55:00 - [541]
 

Edited by: GODS H4ND on 25/11/2010 16:54:51
Waiting patiently for the Trollolololololololol thread.








page 19!!! Laughing

Ong
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:55:00 - [542]
 

Sorry if this has already been asked, but i really cant be botherd to read though 18 pages of 'woot good job ccp'

How will this effect remaps? if the new skill points cant be re-maped does that mean remaps are pretty much de-funked? Or will we be able to remap 8 points from what would have been each skill ie 40 points?

Xybex
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:57:00 - [543]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.



Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Phaedriel
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:58:00 - [544]
 

Edited by: Phaedriel on 25/11/2010 16:58:38
If the other Xmas present update is anything like this, please, take it back to the store and get me a gift voucher...

EVE is famous for its learning curve, if I wanted a game where I don't have to think/plan ahead I'd be on one of the hundreds of other MMOs.

Does not want.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:59:00 - [545]
 

I applaud this change. The only hard part is going to be deciding what to do with all those skill points, since I have all but one learning skill at 5.Very Happy

Tityna Jama
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:00:00 - [546]
 

CCP! Stop making eve-o easyer! Mad
Kill all noobs whoo dont like to learn learning.

Persis Kambhatta
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:00:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Othran
In general its a positive move and long overdue.

I haven't done the numbers yet but I have a gut feeling that if you've maxed out a single attribute (through remapping) for a specific training plan then you're going to be training slower. If my gut feeling is right then you might want to consider either a free remap or a remap on petition.

That's about the only criticism I have.


damn right!

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:00:00 - [548]
 

Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.



Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.


I for once shall agree with a Goon.

Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:01:00 - [549]
 

Cool. I like your solution.

Can you find it in your hearts to give us snowball launchers again this year?

Watching some idiot earn their Golem a CONCORD'okken because they didn't RTFM ... priceless.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:01:00 - [550]
 

While I know in the long run i actually benefited from have learning the learning skills ... I skilled certain skills much faster and yet still i will receive all that SP back from the learning skills to put towards skills i have been working on .... i still want to complain and feel like i wasted my time.

Maybe that's just human nature ... but eh ... hooray for no learning skills!

Naterran Epos
Eukaryotes
Guinea Pigs
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:02:00 - [551]
 

Best Dev blog ever!

Odins Blood
Caldari
Zero Latitude
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:07:00 - [552]
 

im just glad i can now cancel my wow account since eve wont have that learning curve anymore i can get all the easymode i want here now!

Lockefox
Caldari
Hell's Librarians
Darkmatter Initiative
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:09:00 - [553]
 

Edited by: Lockefox on 25/11/2010 17:09:32
Okay, I tried to hunt down an official answer, but all I am seeing in this thread is player math.

So, can we please get a CCP response on what the new MAXIMUM attribute actually is? An explanation about how remap points will work from here forward would also be appreciated.

Is the maximum added still +11?
Do we still need to waste +1 on charisma?
Is 20 the new base attribute? (4+12 != 20)

My actual whining aside, I will be rather peeved if I lose my 33 primary attribute on all 3 of my characters. I specifically planned and trained for that boost, and to have the attribute taken away will leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Also, as a closing note:
CCP, I am rather annoyed with you guys for "shotgunning" this. With every other major game-changing feature, you took time to hear from the players... for this, we are just given a pill to swallow. It may be that the game is better in the long run for this, but I feel as if I was steamrolled by your decision.

I won't post my ranting dissent, seeing as there is no one listening.
~Locke

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:09:00 - [554]
 

Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.



Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Agreed. The only people who are mad are the pour souls who trained all their learning skills to V, or people who routinely sell characters with max learning skills.

Rex Rotham
Amarr
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:09:00 - [555]
 

Originally by: Odins Blood
im just glad i can now cancel my wow account since eve wont have that learning curve anymore i can get all the easymode i want here now!


Learning Curve = Having to learn HOW to do things, as in knowledge and skill and understanding.

Learning Curve != Time grind.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:10:00 - [556]
 

Interesting blog, curious about the guy who asked questions heh

All I can say is ABOUT ****ING TIME!!

Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:12:00 - [557]
 

Great idea, was pretty stupid as a noob character spending months for training learning skills without actually being able to progress in the game.

+10 for refunding those skill points great Christmas present.

Tyranis Marcus
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:13:00 - [558]
 

Nice.

Vorok
Silver Aria
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:13:00 - [559]
 

Edited by: Vorok on 25/11/2010 17:15:32
Originally by: John Zorg
Is this yet another "enhancement" to the game to dumb it down so you can attract more players so you can increase your revenue? Maybe put some focus on the game in the areas where your long time supporters hang out?

Should CCP also stop working on tutorials and the whole field of "new player experience"? Should we shove the newbies back onto that lonely asteroid, have them mine it, pop that NPC drone, and send them off on their merry ways? Is that just pandering for revenue or is it part of making a good game? Just because CCP is making the early-game more palatable doesn't mean they're bringing everything crashing down.

If CCP let players buy attribute points for a $$$ fee (or buy a new character with more SP to allocate), then we'd have a problem with revenue trumping gameplay. If they'd remove Electronics and Engineering, I'd certainly raise an eyebrow.

Originally by: John Zorg
I put all the effort in when I started to play, I was dedicated and had to sit through the learning skills and now you just take it away? why?

If new players have to go through it just because we did, then it's just a hazing.

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
This blog and the last prove that CCP are giving in to the whining minority, something I would never have expected them to do.

Are you sure you're not in the minority of people who thinks this is bad? All the vets I've spoken to are excited about freeing up some SP, and the newbies are excited about not having to climb the learning hill.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:13:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: Rex Rotham
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Rex Rotham
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:38
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:21
Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,376,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.376m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 79,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,319 days (9 years, 31 days) 10 hours and 40 minutes.

So, for those of you in that exact situation, set your clocks to over 9 years from now (assuming you maintain perfect training speed for the duration of the time listed above) so that when that date hits you can begin super emo rage.
Now remove SP that needed to get 5/4 learning skills (almost new traning speed) and recalculate.

5M sp is in no way reimbursment for slower traning time - it's reimbursment of SP I have now. Considering that everyone else gets it it is in no way 5M SP advantage - it's a way less.


Its not reimbursement of what you have now because its being utilized in a different manner. Figure out what you're going to do with your reimbursement, and then how long it would have taken if you just had to train it straight up. That's time saved. It more than compensates for the time you will lose years from now.
No time "saved" is:
[time would have taken to learn learning skills with new system] - [time it had taken when it was learned]

basicly, I lost time traning them because CCP only now decided to do somehting about newbies mostly traning learning skills for first few weeks instead of somehting usefull in actual gameplay.

CCP changes learning skills and removes SP I have in them so they reimburse SP I have in those skills, nothing more.

What would have taken to train skills I'l use those SP in is irrelevent, because I already have that SP and all the time it'd took me to get it I spent already traning learning skills that are now removed. So, in terms of SP I get nothing.

But new system makes me learn as if I'd have 5/4 learning skills which irritates me. CCP does nt reimburse that in any way, only thing that can be considersd as reimbursment of those 72sp/hour is difference between 5/4 and 5/5 learning skills whch is less than 5M.

Having +13, or even +12.8 (as it is now if remapped) to base attributes would be way more fair to players with +5 implant sets and 5/5 learning skills.

iRommel
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:13:00 - [561]
 

Edited by: iRommel on 25/11/2010 17:13:33
Originally by: Tityna Jama
CCP! Stop making eve-o easyer! Mad
Kill all noobs whoo dont like to learn learning.


Is this before or after we "kill all noobs" who can't spell?

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:14:00 - [562]
 

I'm highly amused at all the nay-sayers and whiners who are opposed to this change.

They're so desperate to find an excuse to hate it. Any excuse, no matter how weak or invalid.
This is nothing but a good thing. You whiners are really stretching for an excuse to hate.

Gnidex
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:17:00 - [563]
 

CCP much <3 for this change!
This last expansion is starting to seem the best of them all since it shows you actually read all the whine topicsLaughing

lachrymus
Gallente
Tie Rodarro Corp
Hail Of God Society
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:17:00 - [564]
 

A great move, well done CCP. As a player for only seven months, I didn't spend a huge amount of time training learning skills because I was anxious to get on and do stuff - level 3 or 4 for most of them - so I won't get much back in the way of SP.

But that's fine - those who did, will. Why are they complaining? It's not as if the new players who benefit most will be able to jump into battleships in null sec right away,is it?

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:19:00 - [565]
 

Originally by: Lockefox
Edited by: Lockefox on 25/11/2010 17:09:32
Okay, I tried to hunt down an official answer, but all I am seeing in this thread is player math.

So, can we please get a CCP response on what the new MAXIMUM attribute actually is? An explanation about how remap points will work from here forward would also be appreciated.

Is the maximum added still +11?
Do we still need to waste +1 on charisma?
Is 20 the new base attribute? (4+12 != 20)

My actual whining aside, I will be rather peeved if I lose my 33 primary attribute on all 3 of my characters. I specifically planned and trained for that boost, and to have the attribute taken away will leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Also, as a closing note:
CCP, I am rather annoyed with you guys for "shotgunning" this. With every other major game-changing feature, you took time to hear from the players... for this, we are just given a pill to swallow. It may be that the game is better in the long run for this, but I feel as if I was steamrolled by your decision.

I won't post my ranting dissent, seeing as there is no one listening.
~Locke

Actually if you read the devbog properly you should have noted the part where the CSM was talking to CCP for a long time about this. If the CSM brought it up, it means it was something the players pushed for in the Assembly Hall thread.

Also, if you have a primary attribute where you put more than 10 free attribute points in it, it will be a slight nerf for that attribute. Say if you remapped 15/9. The max that primary attribute could be before implants would be 27.5. Now it's 27. So at best you're losing a half a point on your primary attribute, but you're gaining in everything thats not your primary attribute.

Gloredon
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:19:00 - [566]
 

I can only say, OMG this is such a great move CCP, and perfect timing for Christmas. You guys ROCK! Thank You Thank You Thank You

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:20:00 - [567]
 

Thank you CCP!

Ex Spendable
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:21:00 - [568]
 

Excellent!

I would also like to vote for the extra +1 to Charisma (20/20/20/20/20) and a free remap however. Mainly because it will give everyone a chance to ooh and ahh over their super dooper new base attributes. And it will fix un-remapped Achura to be in line with the rest of us.


Kal'bur
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:23:00 - [569]
 

stop sosignin damn you ridin that @0$% hard as hell.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:24:00 - [570]
 

Edited by: Dmoney3788 on 25/11/2010 17:25:09
They should introduce the advanced and elite implants thats been on the database for years. Would be cool if they added those into the concord lp store.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ocular_Filter_-_Elite


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