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Dunkler Imperator
N.F.H.P.
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:30:00 - [511]
 

\0/ YAY hmmmmmm where to put my 800k sp.

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:31:00 - [512]
 

ok, skilling learning points sucks and makes eve for newbs unbearable, because you have to train 1,5 month of learning skills, until you can skill something useful. to make eve faster and easier to enter, it seems ok.

but I don't like the 12 undistributable points. if I understood the plans correctly, it means that there are NO specializations anymore in eve, that the skillpoint remap is history and that we all have to live with useless attribut points.

example: the next remap, that i planned for me beginning next year would have brought 26xx sp/h because of specialisation remap. the new graphic-magic of ccp reduces this to average learning speed as all are doomed to live with the same crappy stats, right?

so if I understand it correctly,
it's a gift for all those with crappy learning skills, like newbs and impatient idiots.
and it's a punishment for all highly trained and specialized players ...

Hecate Lionfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:31:00 - [513]
 

But will we find cowbell?

Rex Rotham
Amarr
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:32:00 - [514]
 

Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:42:40
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:38
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:21
Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,376,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.376m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 74,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,111 days (8 years, 188 days) 2 hours and 40 minutes.

So, for those of you in that exact situation, set your clocks to almost 9 years from now (assuming you maintain perfect training speed for the duration of the time listed above) so that when that date hits you can begin super emo rage.

EDIT: Numbers corrected

Plutonian
Gallente
Intransigent
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:34:00 - [515]
 

With any change someone, somewhere, takes a hit. I too spent hours spinning ships waiting for training skills to complete (way back when). But that was a choice I made.

Games aren't supposed to be tedious... we get enough of that in our RL jobs. Thanks CCP for what seems a well-rounded solution that negatively impacts as few as possible.

Kudos.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:34:00 - [516]
 

Edited by: Soldarius on 25/11/2010 16:38:21
Another page, crazy!

Forgot a couple things. To all the lazy bastiches that haven't read the thread:

Nothing is being done to implants! Quit talking about them.

No additional remaps because the new attribute points are to your BASE attributes, and are thus unmappable. Getting a remap won't do you any good. So quit asking for them.

All Learning skillbooks in contracts will be lost! Cancel those contracts for the following reason:

All Learning skillbooks in contracts will be replaced by copies of Pax Amarria. Do you really want that? Books not in contracts will be reimbursed at the NPC sell order price as of the patch. Get your isk back!

No more noob training boost. It was implemented with the intent of helping noobs get those needed learning skills done. With the relevant skills gone, the need for the boost is also being eliminated.

My apologies to those who feel insulted by me restating all these things when its all clearly outlined in CCP Greyscale's Dev Blog.

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:34:00 - [517]
 

Edited by: Damien Smith on 25/11/2010 16:35:02
Originally by: Yeo San
if I understood the plans correctly


You didn't. Basically they're removing however many attributes you've gained from learning skills, and replacing them with the equivalent of lvl 5 in all learning skills. They're not touching your base attributes or placing a cap on max attrib points in any one attrib.

Lactasia
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:35:00 - [518]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Lactasia
Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!?

Erm? Remapping for skills that taking up a month, two at best? Don't be silly.
Besides, there's **** ton of really useful skills that have same base attributes.


I think its a significant enough change to the atributes/characters that it warrants a remap to everyone. In every MMo I know when there is a significant & major change to characters a "respec" is in order.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:36:00 - [519]
 


You're tearing me apart CCP! This mean I will now lose 11 of my 371 very good friends. Crying or Very sad


M Teresa
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:36:00 - [520]
 

THE best decision of 2010! Surprised

I hated it when I have to train learning skills on my cyno alts. Soon, I will be able to put those skill points to cyno. SAVE MORE LO!!

And also, screw those who sell "starter char" Twisted Evil

Odins Blood
Caldari
Zero Latitude
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 - [521]
 

this is neat and all but not neccisary at all. arent there better things to improve? seriosly. fix the real problems instead of just showing us something shiney. also i dont like it. and i distinctly remember being told all these expansions were in november. why are you saying all these things are december...

Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 - [522]
 

YES

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 - [523]
 

Originally by: Rex Rotham
Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,736,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.736m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 79,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,319 days (9 years, 31 days) 10 hours and 40 minutes.

So, for those of you in that exact situation, set your clocks to over 9 years from now (assuming you maintain perfect training speed for the duration of the time listed above) so that when that date hits you can begin super emo rage.


And I am sure if you offered someone in this situation 5.736m SP to spend right now, on the condition that they take a less than 1% reduction in training speed in 9 years, they would bite your hand off.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:40:00 - [524]
 

Originally by: Yeo San
ok, skilling learning points sucks and makes eve for newbs unbearable, because you have to train 1,5 month of learning skills, until you can skill something useful. to make eve faster and easier to enter, it seems ok.

but I don't like the 12 undistributable points. if I understood the plans correctly, it means that there are NO specializations anymore in eve, that the skillpoint remap is history and that we all have to live with useless attribut points.

example: the next remap, that i planned for me beginning next year would have brought 26xx sp/h because of specialisation remap. the new graphic-magic of ccp reduces this to average learning speed as all are doomed to live with the same crappy stats, right?

so if I understand it correctly,
it's a gift for all those with crappy learning skills, like newbs and impatient idiots.
and it's a punishment for all highly trained and specialized players ...


Don't worry you didn't get it right. You can't redistribute attribute points gained from learning skills now. Since the extra 12 points are given as a compensation for removing your learning skills, they can't be redistributed either. Attribute remapping will work just as it does today.

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:44:00 - [525]
 

I approve. With the exception of certain edge cases (just implated the skill books), this will simply "come out in the wash" for most players. It will make the newbie experience much more enjoyable - and remember we want new targets players to join the game.

John Zorg
Caldari
The Damned Legion
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:44:00 - [526]
 

Interesting move... even though a "Freebee" of 5 mill SP is welcome. My chars are almost completely trained out now for what they were specced for. What will I train after that? I put all the effort in when I started to play, I was dedicated and had to sit through the learning skills and now you just take it away? why?

Is this yet another "enhancement" to the game to dumb it down so you can attract more players so you can increase your revenue? Maybe put some focus on the game in the areas where your long time supporters hang out?

It's sad, gaming is no longer about gaming, it's about how much money can be made. Sad tbh...

JZ

Smoke Adian
Caldari
League of Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:45:00 - [527]
 

Edited by: Smoke Adian on 25/11/2010 16:45:11
Today I am thankful for CCP Greyscale.

Tergiminius
Binary Star
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:45:00 - [528]
 

For part 2 of this Christmas present they should remove the high cost of jump clone upgrades as you go up the SP amount. PVPing in a new char is a lot cheaper than throwing away a 40mil isk clone for a one shot pop. With this new Sansha stuff coming in there's gonna be a lot of podding going on if it means you can get back out in a new ship and clone for a few mil there'll be more uptake from some of the older carebears.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:46:00 - [529]
 

Originally by: Rex Rotham
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:38
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:21
Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,376,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.376m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 79,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,319 days (9 years, 31 days) 10 hours and 40 minutes.

So, for those of you in that exact situation, set your clocks to over 9 years from now (assuming you maintain perfect training speed for the duration of the time listed above) so that when that date hits you can begin super emo rage.
Now remove SP that needed to get 5/4 learning skills (almost new traning speed) and recalculate.

5M sp is in no way reimbursment for slower traning time - it's reimbursment of SP I have now. Considering that everyone else gets it it is in no way 5M SP advantage - it's a way less.

Rex Rotham
Amarr
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:47:00 - [530]
 

By the way, to those arguing that the game is being "dumbed down"... there is nothing more dumb than pointless skills which are a time sink / have no play value.

And for the record, new subscribers that stay is a good thing. Low membership is not equivalent to a game with depth. More money for CCP means more money for development, and thus existing problems get fixed quicker while they do a more quality job of developing new features.

If you want to be alone, open a MUD on a local server and play by yourself. You can call it EvE Offline if you wish.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:47:00 - [531]
 

Geeze...take a few hours away from the EVE O forums and it's 18 pages in already before I can say, GREAT JOB CCP! And thanks a ton!


Grady Eltoren
Minmatar
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:48:00 - [532]
 

AWESOME! GREAT solution CCP! : ) Kudos!

EVE is really starting to tidy up nicely! All those lose ends are getting wrapped up! Thanks for a great Xmas present!

Cheers!

Rex Rotham
Amarr
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:49:00 - [533]
 

Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Rex Rotham
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:38
Edited by: Rex Rotham on 25/11/2010 16:40:21
Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,376,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.376m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 79,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,319 days (9 years, 31 days) 10 hours and 40 minutes.

So, for those of you in that exact situation, set your clocks to over 9 years from now (assuming you maintain perfect training speed for the duration of the time listed above) so that when that date hits you can begin super emo rage.
Now remove SP that needed to get 5/4 learning skills (almost new traning speed) and recalculate.

5M sp is in no way reimbursment for slower traning time - it's reimbursment of SP I have now. Considering that everyone else gets it it is in no way 5M SP advantage - it's a way less.


Its not reimbursement of what you have now because its being utilized in a different manner. Figure out what you're going to do with your reimbursement, and then how long it would have taken if you just had to train it straight up. That's time saved. It more than compensates for the time you will lose years from now.

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:49:00 - [534]
 

This is a much needed change to keep the game open for new players.

Those of you worried about losing remaps you needn't worry. Currently the base attributes are 5 plus 14 redistributable points and then up to 12.5 points from learning skills are added.

We will be going to base attributes of 17 plus 14 redistributable points and no learning skill.

Gulmint
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:50:00 - [535]
 

lame lame lame

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:50:00 - [536]
 

Originally by: Lactasia
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Lactasia
Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!?

Erm? Remapping for skills that taking up a month, two at best? Don't be silly.
Besides, there's **** ton of really useful skills that have same base attributes.


I think its a significant enough change to the atributes/characters that it warrants a remap to everyone. In every MMo I know when there is a significant & major change to characters a "respec" is in order.



I wouldn't mind a remap, but this doesn't really change things. The source of where you got your attribute points just changed, but your attributes will either increase or stay pretty much the same so you won't suffer from the change. Not a significan't or a major change to attributes or to anyones plans, since using your only remap just for learning skills is pretty idiotic and everyone else is affected in a positive way or not affected at all.

Kal'bur
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:51:00 - [537]
 

no one is getting an sp bonus at all. its just taking your learning sp and making it "general" sp. your sp count doesnt go up.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:51:00 - [538]
 

CCP... can you find a way to remove even more stuff out of this game and still make people happy about it?

Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.



This blog and the last prove that CCP are giving in to the whining minority, something I would never have expected them to do. This way lies madness (and loss of loyal players). I know you need to make money and all that, but turning the only serious MMO of today into just another W*W clone will kill EVE for good.

BBQfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:51:00 - [539]
 

isnogood :(

Darth Vanity
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:54:00 - [540]
 

Is there any news whatsoever about the 2nd Christmas box, or is Santa keeping that till just before XMAS?
OHHH mmmmm what could it BE! Very Happy
Maybe it's a little flying saucer with little green elves onboard or a sleigh with blaster bells or .... .. .
I LOVED the intro work for this blog .. FANTASTIC theme lines! Intellects Rulez LOL


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