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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:04:00 - [481]
 

Only took you 7 ****ing years.

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:06:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: T0Y
Originally by: Tonto Auri
(Means: u blind)

I get it, you're here to try and be clever and yet you really have no clue.

I on the other hand was asking for clarification on something, because even though certain things are mentioned, it's not at all clear.
That's why we adults, sometimes ask for things to be made a little clearer. Wink


The stat points are going into the base stats for all characters, according to what I just read, so it would be as if your character, when created, started with 20/20/20/20/19. Then your implants go on top of that.

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:06:00 - [483]
 

Originally by: KurnKuku
Originally by: Evil Zeb

not free is it, already spend 2/3 months training it. do i get the 90days in plex's back?


So what you mean is, "I had to spend 2/3 months training, I am not affected by these changes, however I am not happy that others now don't have to spend time training. I would be happier if people still had to train them, because I had to." ?


no i am effected, ill train slower now dispite putting teh time and effort to get that lv5 skill. dosnt seam eve like to me tbh

King Pleasure
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:07:00 - [484]
 

Originally by: Xenitha Towers
I'm a little sad. I invested a lot in learning because that's the type of character I wanted to play: an academic. Although it is not a large part of the game, not as big as trade, industry or combat, and you can't sustain that type of character for the entire life of the game, we'll now be losing the scholar type of game-play that I enjoyed thus far in the game. However, with the skill reimbursement I'll now be above my friends in skill points. I've been lagging behind them because they started a couple months ahead of me, but I'll be above them in skill points now and I won't have to wait my calculated 2 years to catch up to them. Very excited about this.


Huh?
You're not getting any more points. You're just redistributing them.

Brother Dinger
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:07:00 - [485]
 

I have 2 alts in the middle of training learning skills now. The intelligence and memory attributes are hi and the other 3 are low in points. Taking the books away has left me hanging until the 14th of december or early next year without any speed progression, what am I suppose to do in the mean time? stay in limbo until then ?

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:08:00 - [486]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 16:08:19
Originally by: Evil Zeb
Originally by: KurnKuku
Originally by: Evil Zeb

not free is it, already spend 2/3 months training it. do i get the 90days in plex's back?


So what you mean is, "I had to spend 2/3 months training, I am not affected by these changes, however I am not happy that others now don't have to spend time training. I would be happier if people still had to train them, because I had to." ?


no i am effected, ill train slower now dispite putting teh time and effort to get that lv5 skill. dosnt seam eve like to me tbh


Come back and moan in 8 years when your reimbursed SP runs out. Perhaps you will have grown up by then.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:09:00 - [487]
 

Originally by: De'Vadder
Originally by: Rasz Lin
We need new version of EveMon that shows SP next to time.
Im currently trying to figure out how much SP could I gain by buffering in learning before the change.

With my remap/learning skills/attribs and set of +5 best learning skill that I can train is Logic at 2442sp/h (i know its crap, I did universal remap to Int/Perc). That would earn me 632235 SP in 10 days 18 Hours.

I would like EveMon to show SP when I highlight skills in a plan so I can see how much I can just fill from the buffer and how much I will need to have in that buffer in the first place.
mmm going to look for EveMon threat/forum.


Evemon does show your SP/h in the plans, so just check wether you get more SP/h in any learning skill than in what you want to learn and if thats the case, put some learning in your head.


No. What I mean is I make new learning plan, throw some skills in it and there is info at the bottom telling me how long it will take, but it doesnt display SP, so I have to calculate it by hand - divide time given by hours, then divide by SP/h from the plan, then take into consideration different parts of the plan have different SP/h ... :/

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:09:00 - [488]
 

Originally by: KurnKuku
Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 16:08:19
Originally by: Evil Zeb
Originally by: KurnKuku
Originally by: Evil Zeb

not free is it, already spend 2/3 months training it. do i get the 90days in plex's back?


So what you mean is, "I had to spend 2/3 months training, I am not affected by these changes, however I am not happy that others now don't have to spend time training. I would be happier if people still had to train them, because I had to." ?


no i am effected, ill train slower now dispite putting teh time and effort to get that lv5 skill. dosnt seam eve like to me tbh


Come back and moan in 8 years when your reimbursed SP runs out. Perhaps you will have grown up by then.


its not free sp's i already trained it

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 - [489]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 16:10:22
Originally by: Evil Zeb


its not free sp's i already trained it


You will be getting them back to redistribute. My apologies for jumping down your throat if you missed this point.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 - [490]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 16:13:35
Originally by: Thorleifer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Thorleifer
Originally by: T0Y
If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.


True but that blog made no reference to older character at all. So clarification is asked for again.


Originally by: T0Y
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: T0Y
If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

So if you don't know the answer, why are you replying?


Just a few quotes up in thread
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510&page=15#424

(Means: u blind)


Ya I got that part but doing the math it doesn't seem to work for how I remapped is all, dunno, we shall see.


http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/2010-12-14.ods
Play with it yourself. Touch green boxes.

Originally by: Bomberlocks
CCP: I have a question about reimbursement.

How long will the reimbursement period last?


Reading comprehension fails?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skill_Reimbursement

Xero Cell
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:14:00 - [491]
 

ShockedShockedShocked

I LOVE YOU FOREVER, CCP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CCP !!!!!!!! AH!! YOU ARE AWESOME!!!Very HappySmileSurprised

Vorok
Silver Aria
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:16:00 - [492]
 

Extra win for those who took the time to train up their Learning skills. For years, we'll have trained faster than those who (for whatever reason) didn't bother. Now we get to instantly reinvest those SP into whatever we want.

I like how this will affect newbies on their trials or early months. Having mentored my share of new players, I'll be happy to change my advice about what to train.

Awesome for all involved!

Lactasia
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:18:00 - [493]
 

Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!?

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:18:00 - [494]
 

In the time it took me to read through this threadnaught, 2 more pages of posts came up. :lol:

To all time/SP lost cryers, quit yer whinin'. All time/SP spent are being reimbursed. You didn't spend time in and of itself, you spent time gaining SP in learning skills. Those SP are going to be fully reimbursed.

"Oh, but I won't be training as fast as before!"

You do realize you are getting all those SP back, right? And that those SP can now be spent to instantly (read 0 time spent) advance your uber-planned training schedule, right? You are about to get a training time of 0. How can you possibly complain about that?

Can't understand why anyone would complain about making the game more friendly towards new players. This is called growth. Stagnation kills. I personally have not recommended this game to certain friends of mine because I know for a fact they will not play it due to the necessity of training learning skills. The learning skills were a great big road block in the way of gaining more players. It has also been a block to the bottom line of CCP. More money = more staff = more game improvements, and so on.

The vast majority of players will benefit from this change, myself included. I did not train my learning skills all to 5 simply because imo it wasn't worth the time spent now to gain some small advantage a year or two down the road. Now I can see I was right. Gonna get all those attribute points for free, and get my SP back. Very Happy

Learning skills were never an effective means of differentiating characters. Nobody could tell if your learning skills were all at 5. Nobody gave a rat's ass if you had max learning skills. It was entirely in the head of the character owner.

There are plenty of ways to differentiate characters. Perhaps you have heard the terms carebear, pirate, indy, and cyno alt? If learning skills are what differentiate your toon from the others, you have failed as a player. Go to the character select screen and start clicking recycle. But before you do...

Can I haz your stuffz?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:19:00 - [495]
 

Originally by: Lactasia
Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!?

Erm? Remapping for skills that taking up a month, two at best? Don't be silly.
Besides, there's **** ton of really useful skills that have same base attributes.

Rommah
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:20:00 - [496]
 

Me and my fiance better be reimbursed for our +5 implant sets! >:(
Also, I do hope we get a free skill remap!

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Rommah
Me and my fiance better be reimbursed for our +5 implant sets! >:(
Also, I do hope we get a free skill remap!



Nothing is happening to your implants

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 - [498]
 

Originally by: Rommah
Me and my fiance better be reimbursed for our +5 implant sets! >:(
Also, I do hope we get a free skill remap!

What implants have to do with this change?

Hecate Lionfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
In the time it took me to read through this threadnaught, 2 more pages of posts came up. :lol:

To all time/SP lost cryers, quit yer whinin'. All time/SP spent are being reimbursed. You didn't spend time in and of itself, you spent time gaining SP in learning skills. Those SP are going to be fully reimbursed.

"Oh, but I won't be training as fast as before!"

You do realize you are getting all those SP back, right? And that those SP can now be spent to instantly (read 0 time spent) advance your uber-planned training schedule, right? You are about to get a training time of 0. How can you possibly complain about that?

Can't understand why anyone would complain about making the game more friendly towards new players. This is called growth. Stagnation kills. I personally have not recommended this game to certain friends of mine because I know for a fact they will not play it due to the necessity of training learning skills. The learning skills were a great big road block in the way of gaining more players. It has also been a block to the bottom line of CCP. More money = more staff = more game improvements, and so on.

The vast majority of players will benefit from this change, myself included. I did not train my learning skills all to 5 simply because imo it wasn't worth the time spent now to gain some small advantage a year or two down the road. Now I can see I was right. Gonna get all those attribute points for free, and get my SP back. Very Happy

Learning skills were never an effective means of differentiating characters. Nobody could tell if your learning skills were all at 5. Nobody gave a rat's ass if you had max learning skills. It was entirely in the head of the character owner.

There are plenty of ways to differentiate characters. Perhaps you have heard the terms carebear, pirate, indy, and cyno alt? If learning skills are what differentiate your toon from the others, you have failed as a player. Go to the character select screen and start clicking recycle. But before you do...

Can I haz your stuffz?


This... and only this is this of this, we shall know this is this, and this was this to this.


Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 - [500]
 

Great change, good to see it finally happen.

It is a bummer to see the training speed going down though. 2772 down to 2700 on all of the characters I use a lot is a bummer, especially when it seems so easy to remedy.

What about adding 1-2 extra attribute points for people to put where they wish? This will actually help the regular folks more than the min maxers, since min maxers will likely add it to willpower or memory (depending on what they are currently training) while regular folks will be more likely to put it in perc or int and gain a larger benefit from it.

Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:22:00 - [501]
 

i'm fine with this, but then how about those bland memories of "station spinning", or being stuck to a ship with pretty low skills, waiting and counting the number of days til those "boring skills" complete its training... i want CCP to compensate for that, maybe a hug or a teddy would do.. hehehehe

Knawt Ongrid
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:23:00 - [502]
 

Interesting choice for the graphs. Should one read anything into it? I prefer to read it as irony.

Train hard for those Drakes, noobs! Nothing gonna change with them. Twisted EvilTwisted Evil

Zavulon Sukkot
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:24:00 - [503]
 

WTB 6 alts @ 2M learning SP ASAP.

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:24:00 - [504]
 

Good for you ccp. Even though I've been through the learning skill waste of time 3 times and will probably never need to do it again I'm glad that new players wont need to sit idle for a month and a half of their game time learning how to learn.

Korbin Dallaz
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:25:00 - [505]
 

I do not like this at all for myself. I can understand why you did it for new players but it ****es me off that I spent so much time learning these skill to get an advantage over those who did not and you now take that away from me. Further I can't believe you are not going to reimburse me for skill books that I bought that you now have made useless. Screw your economist this is a one time event and not a new Modus Operandi.

Kinkill
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:26:00 - [506]
 

Edited by: Kinkill on 25/11/2010 16:27:01
i think they should amend this change to 11 points in each base stat and 4or5 free to redistribute. That way vets with learning skills at 5 can get a little bonus as well. Also, conserving remaps and waiting at the right time would give a little extra boost to training.

Consider the difference:

Current TQ skills with L5 in all learning skills
12 + 10 + 5 + 2.7 = 29.2
12 + 10 + 5 + 2.7 = 29.2
5 + 10 + 5 + 2.0 = 22
5 + 10 + 5 + 2.0 = 22
5 + 10 + 5 + 2.0 = 22

Current CCP changes

12 + 12 + 5 = 29
12 + 12 + 5 = 29
5 + 12 + 5 = 22
5 + 12 + 5 = 22
5 + 12 + 5 = 22

Suggested with 11 to each base stat and 4 or 5 redistributable

12 + 11 + 5 = 28 + (2/3) = 30/31
12 + 11 + 5 = 28 + (2) = 30
5 + 11 + 5 = 21
5 + 11 + 5 = 21
5 + 11 + 5 = 21

In the end you may have less total stats but you will have overall faster training time if you plan your training time and remaps well which is what eve is all about. The redistributable number of stat may or may not be limited to 4 for balance.

Naiqton
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:26:00 - [507]
 

Im curious when comes the item mall system to buy sp. :P

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:26:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Xero Cell
ShockedShockedShocked

I LOVE YOU FOREVER, CCP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CCP !!!!!!!! AH!! YOU ARE AWESOME!!!Very HappySmileSurprised


lol, he said it better than I did.

Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:27:00 - [509]
 

Why did CCP decide not to bundle a remap (as suggested) with this change?

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:27:00 - [510]
 

Drake nerf is the 2nd half of the Christmas 'present'. Watch out.


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