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Thorleifer
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:38:00 - [451]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Thorleifer
Originally by: T0Y
If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.


True but that blog made no reference to older character at all. So clarification is asked for again.


Originally by: T0Y
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: T0Y
If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

So if you don't know the answer, why are you replying?


Just a few quotes up in thread
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510&page=15#424

(Means: u blind)


Ya I got that part but doing the math it doesn't seem to work for how I remapped is all, dunno, we shall see.

Eve Aldeir
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:38:00 - [452]
 

This removal of learning skills maybe will attract new players, but at the same time the older players are again being nerfed.
We had to learn those learning skills to speed up training in the future.
Now everyone gets the bonus without any learning of learning skills at all.
So where it took the older players a long time to reach certain sp levels, the new generation reaches those same levels in a much smaller amount of time.
A reasonable change would have been if the extra attributes from removal of the learning skills would be given to players without learning skills after the time which is needed to learn the learning skills in the old system, something like a bonus for playing Eve for x days.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:39:00 - [453]
 

"Miscellaneous other cleanup tasks will be performed that are not very interesting, details available on request."

Details requested

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:40:00 - [454]
 

CCP: I have a question about reimbursement.

How long will the reimbursement period last? The reason I'm aksing this is because I won't be around in December and I would be a bit sad to lose those juicy SPs when arriving back in Jan.

And thanks for this, CCP. It's the best thing for the game in many respects because it simplifies the beginner game for new players and gives us older players a funky little christmas present that we can spend on stuff that makes blwoing up other stuff easier.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 - [455]
 

Learning skills going away is a good thing. Really.

I can finally talk friends into playing and they might actually stay.

Though it seemed like the logical choice to do, they will no longer train learning skills for a month, get bored because they can't do anything else, and quit. No matter how many times I tell friends NOT to train learning skills first, they always do because it seems to make sense to do so first.

Thank you CCP. After the 14th if you see subscription numbers go up by two, you'll know why. Very Happy

Lord Zulu
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:42:00 - [456]
 

4,743,765 SP to go into anything I want

erm great now I have to make that decision thanks CCP/CSM


KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:42:00 - [457]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 15:43:04
Originally by: Eve Aldeir
This removal of learning skills maybe will attract new players, but at the same time the older players are again being nerfed.
We had to learn those learning skills to speed up training in the future.
Now everyone gets the bonus without any learning of learning skills at all.
So where it took the older players a long time to reach certain sp levels, the new generation reaches those same levels in a much smaller amount of time.
A reasonable change would have been if the extra attributes from removal of the learning skills would be given to players without learning skills after the time which is needed to learn the learning skills in the old system, something like a bonus for playing Eve for x days.


ie.."I had to take time training, and therefore I am not happy unless everyone else does"?

How does new players training quicker possibly 'nerf' you?

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 - [458]
 

Originally by: Eve Aldeir
This removal of learning skills maybe will attract new players, but at the same time the older players are again being nerfed.
We had to learn those learning skills to speed up training in the future.
Now everyone gets the bonus without any learning of learning skills at all.
So where it took the older players a long time to reach certain sp levels, the new generation reaches those same levels in a much smaller amount of time.
A reasonable change would have been if the extra attributes from removal of the learning skills would be given to players without learning skills after the time which is needed to learn the learning skills in the old system, something like a bonus for playing Eve for x days.
You realise you're getting all the extra SP back that you spent on learning to put on something else? If I were you, I'd put it in reading comprehension V.

Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:44:00 - [459]
 

Hrm. Well... It sounds decent and seems like a good idea. BUT! New players can dive right in. Something not so much doable by the rest of us if we wanted to have decent training times by training learning skills first. We'll be reimbursed the learning sp number that we have now. Ok, but that doesn't recover the time lost for the rest of us having "immediate" fun. You can't make up for that CCP.

I demand a make up for all that lost fun we didn't get to have. I demand a pic of Stevie SG holding a sign saying she loves Harri. Do eet!!!111one

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:46:00 - [460]
 

I know have a big chunk of SP to spend. Very Happy

What plagues me - and which is why I did like the concept of "learning skills", even at the time I was doing them: it provided sort of a sieve to filter out the "lvl 80 in two days otherwise the game sucks" kinda players real quick.

EVE is a game of patience. Doing the learnings teaches you that.

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:46:00 - [461]
 

Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly
Hrm. Well... It sounds decent and seems like a good idea. BUT! New players can dive right in. Something not so much doable by the rest of us if we wanted to have decent training times by training learning skills first. We'll be reimbursed the learning sp number that we have now. Ok, but that doesn't recover the time lost for the rest of us having "immediate" fun. You can't make up for that CCP.


ie..."I had to waste time training the skills, and therefore I am not happy unless everyone else does" ?

Mr morris
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:47:00 - [462]
 

This is awesome*** Shame to all the whiners who resist any and all upgrades to this great game. CCP needs to do this for many reasons. This isn't 2003 and we are not in Kansas Dorothy. Big Grats to the Dev Team

Aarin Wrath
Caldari
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:47:00 - [463]
 

Wow CCP. Never thought you guys would ever do this.

Sheer awesomeness. Very Happy

T0Y
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:48:00 - [464]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
(Means: u blind)

I get it, you're here to try and be clever and yet you really have no clue.

I on the other hand was asking for clarification on something, because even though certain things are mentioned, it's not at all clear.
That's why we adults, sometimes ask for things to be made a little clearer. Wink

Pellit1
Caldari
Fatality.
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:49:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
What plagues me - and which is why I did like the concept of "learning skills", even at the time I was doing them: it provided sort of a sieve to filter out the "lvl 80 in two days otherwise the game sucks" kinda players real quick.

EVE is a game of patience. Doing the learnings teaches you that.


Exactly my thoughts :/

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:50:00 - [466]
 

OLder players may train slower under the new system with maxed out skills.. I read earlier approx 640k per year. So, with the freeing of over 5m skillpoints from the learning skills, you realize you're getting almost 8 YEARS of the nerfed training free, right?

Excellent move, CCP. Well done.

Axe Coldon
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:52:00 - [467]
 

I have a question and I didn't see it addressed in the post. Will we still be able to remap? They said the 12 points was "non-remappable" So does that mean we can't lower charisma and jack up preception after the change?

And will there still be Attribute Implants?

Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:53:00 - [468]
 

Originally by: KurnKuku
Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly
Hrm. Well... It sounds decent and seems like a good idea. BUT! New players can dive right in. Something not so much doable by the rest of us if we wanted to have decent training times by training learning skills first. We'll be reimbursed the learning sp number that we have now. Ok, but that doesn't recover the time lost for the rest of us having "immediate" fun. You can't make up for that CCP.


ie..."I had to waste time training the skills, and therefore I am not happy unless everyone else does" ?


No, I just really want the pic. Wink

Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:54:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: CCP Nooblet
It's also considered empirically likely that, in the process of reading the above, you've had one or more thoughts spring into your minds that start with the word "Why...". Therefore, here are some Whys for you.

WHY TWELVE EXTRA POINTS?

WHY AREN'T YOU REIMBURSING SKILLBOOKS I BOUGHT AND INJECTED?

WHY ARE YOU REIMBURSING PEOPLE WITH SKILLBOOKS IN THEIR HANGARS, THERE'S NO REAL WAY THIS COULD BE BAD FOR ME BUT I FEEL OUTRAGED NONETHELESS (WHY ELSE WOULD I BE TYPING IN ALL CAPS)?

WHY DIDN'T YOU SETTLE ON A LOWER ATTRIBUTE COUNT/TRAINING SPEED?

WHY DIDN'T YOU DO (THING WHICH IS MORE COMPLICATED/EXTENSIVE, EVEN IF ONLY BY A SMALL MARGIN)?

WHY OH WHY ARE YOU GETTING RID OF THE NEW PLAYER LEARNING SPEED BONUS?


You missed one: WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS ?

Not that I care much about the removal of learning skills, but I would like to know the reason behind this change.

Raid'En
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:54:00 - [470]
 

that's a good news :)

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:55:00 - [471]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
CCP: I have a question about reimbursement.

How long will the reimbursement period last?


There will be no time limit.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skill_Reimbursement

Marcus Caspius
Caldari
Vitriol Ventures
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:55:00 - [472]
 

ARRGGHH! Confused

THIS SUCKS - AND IT IS NOT FAIR: While I took the time to train all Learning skills to 5, I missed out the opportunity/time to train something else.
So that means I lost the "Game-Time" where I could flow have a better ship, or fired a Missile or Gun more efficiently. Furthermore, I may have been able to tank that WT better or whatever...

ExclamationThe point here is the COST of the LOSS of OPPERTUNITY. Exclamation

The pilots who stand to lose the most out of this are the ones that took the time to train it up to MAX.

Maybe give guys like me a BONUS on "Remap points" for all Learning skills to V at date of publishing.

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:56:00 - [473]
 

Originally by: Feligast
OLder players may train slower under the new system with maxed out skills.. I read earlier approx 640k per year. So, with the freeing of over 5m skillpoints from the learning skills, you realize you're getting almost 8 YEARS of the nerfed training free, right?

Excellent move, CCP. Well done.

not free is it, already spend 2/3 months training it. do i get the 90days in plex's back?

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:57:00 - [474]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 15:58:12
Originally by: Marcus Caspius
ARRGGHH! Confused

THIS SUCKS - AND IT IS NOT FAIR: While I took the time to train all Learning skills to 5, I missed out the opportunity/time to train something else.
So that means I lost the "Game-Time" where I could flow have a better ship, or fired a Missile or Gun more efficiently. Furthermore, I may have been able to tank that WT better or whatever...

ExclamationThe point here is the COST of the LOSS of OPPERTUNITY. Exclamation

The pilots who stand to lose the most out of this are the ones that took the time to train it up to MAX.

Maybe give guys like me a BONUS on "Remap points" for all Learning skills to V at date of publishing.



How are you possibly losing out on this? You will be in the same situation after the change as you are now.

Is it a case of "I had to take the time to train this, and therefore I will be happier if everyone else has to also as opposed to everyone else not having to train this." ?

amarian arch
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:59:00 - [475]
 

Edited by: amarian arch on 25/11/2010 15:59:18
Will remapping still be possible and if so will we be able to get a free one after this change? If i lose my 31 perception and 25 willpower im going to be mad.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:00:00 - [476]
 

Originally by: Marcus Caspius
ARRGGHH! Confused

THIS SUCKS - AND IT IS NOT FAIR: While I took the time to train all Learning skills to 5, I missed out the opportunity/time to train something else.
So that means I lost the "Game-Time" where I could flow have a better ship, or fired a Missile or Gun more efficiently. Furthermore, I may have been able to tank that WT better or whatever...

ExclamationThe point here is the COST of the LOSS of OPPERTUNITY. Exclamation

The pilots who stand to lose the most out of this are the ones that took the time to train it up to MAX.

Maybe give guys like me a BONUS on "Remap points" for all Learning skills to V at date of publishing.



If someone gave you wings so you can fly, would you go to the airline company and ask for a refund for all those flights you had over the years? I mean, it's a missed opportunity - you could have been using your wings.

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:01:00 - [477]
 

Originally by: Evil Zeb

not free is it, already spend 2/3 months training it. do i get the 90days in plex's back?


So what you mean is, "I had to spend 2/3 months training, I am not affected by these changes, however I am not happy that others now don't have to spend time training. I would be happier if people still had to train them, because I had to." ?

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:01:00 - [478]
 

Mmm... A couple mil of tasty skillpoints, shiny stat boost and a nice pile of cash to flow back into the "Skillbooks for Republicans" fund, which will become the "Template Ships for Newbie Republicans" fund.

Team Yggdrasil can have cake, IMHO.

King Pleasure
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:02:00 - [479]
 

Awesome news.
Guessing this means you'll be removing the learning skill lock on some nullsec deadspace gates as well?

Just asking coz it wasn't mentioned.

Xenitha Towers
Posted - 2010.11.25 16:03:00 - [480]
 

I'm a little sad. I invested a lot in learning because that's the type of character I wanted to play: an academic. Although it is not a large part of the game, not as big as trade, industry or combat, and you can't sustain that type of character for the entire life of the game, we'll now be losing the scholar type of game-play that I enjoyed thus far in the game. However, with the skill reimbursement I'll now be above my friends in skill points. I've been lagging behind them because they started a couple months ahead of me, but I'll be above them in skill points now and I won't have to wait my calculated 2 years to catch up to them. Very excited about this.


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