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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:51:00 - [391]
 

Originally by: Damien Smith
Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.

If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?

Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?


Aww LOL dude... how naive...

Fuyu'no Kiri
Beauvoir-Bourdieu
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:52:00 - [392]
 

Edited by: Fuyu''no Kiri on 25/11/2010 14:54:53
Originally by: Gripen
why do we need attribute implants? They are so mandatory and boring to get isks for. They are also discourage a lot of people from joining PvP. Let's remove them and give everybody +5 free atrributes. That would be so awesome!!!111!!

Originally by: Kerdrak
Atribute implants are in the risk/reward category that looks very good to me Wink

Originally by: Gripen
What risk are you talking about?

Right, just one word about this risk: jump clone.

(I know that's 2 words. Either I'm a generous person or I don't know simple arithmetic. You choose ;-P )

Originally by: Gripen
Is there non-stupid way to be podded in empire? Haven't you heard that 86.51% of players reside in empire?

What's the connection between PvP and Empire space? I mean, they're quite orthogonal concepts, aren't they?


By the way: if any one would like to have the devblog translated to french, I can do that. Email me ingame (or ingate, as you prefer ^^ )

Khaelis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:52:00 - [393]
 

Great change! As someone thats interacted with alot of rookies, this will greatly increase how much fun they have at the start of the game, without bogging it down with downright annoying skills. I also like the idea of redistributing all those SP.. mmm

Cresalle
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:52:00 - [394]
 

Quote:
Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned.


What constitutes 'recycling alts' and where is this rule stated?

Seriously, is there a list of these bizzare rules somewhere? I keep hearing people mention things but how the hell am I supposed to know what's hearsay and what's a real rule?

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:55:00 - [395]
 

darn, was hoping for a +1% per level and +14something like to attributes AND A CHANGE TO IMPLANTS TOO!

... good change though even if it doesn't change implants too.

hfo maan
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:56:00 - [396]
 

Would love to see statistics and graphs of where ppl applied their skill points after the patch!!!

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:56:00 - [397]
 

Originally by: Cresalle
Quote:
Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned.


What constitutes 'recycling alts' and where is this rule stated?

Seriously, is there a list of these bizzare rules somewhere? I keep hearing people mention things but how the hell am I supposed to know what's hearsay and what's a real rule?


Petition your questions to GM team...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:56:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Akita T
20/20/20/20/19 = BAD !!!
20/20/20/20/20 = GOOD !
Rabble rabble OCD rabble !

Oh, this! so this. my OCD sense is tingling. :)

Guess what the CSM also appears to have said...
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Umm, the CSM passed a proposal a few months back advocating exactly this change -- with [some differences]

Those differences are basically exactly that - 100 base attributes instead of just the CCP-proposed 99.
BOOOO for 99, yay for 100 !

OUTRAAAAGE !!!

Resource Extractor
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:56:00 - [399]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Damien Smith
(...)


The skill points are reimbursed on a per character basis and they will not be transferred between accounts or characters.


I find this rather strange in a way.
Only one character can gain SP at the same time (only one char trains) so actually the SP belongs more to the account than to the character. I find it not more than logical that the account-holder can decide on which characters the "freed up SP" can be re-used.

As said before, most people have "finished" chars on accounts, and really would like to invest that SP in their training character.

Mariner6
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:57:00 - [400]
 

CCP,

I know you can't make everyone happy but...

While you are paying us back the the skill points invested into learning, I had maxed them out first thing when I joined the game, you are also taking away the only real way to separate yourself from other players in the long term. My "interest" to speak. You are penalizing me long term for being a disciplined player and investing in my learning skills right off so that over time I could pass up those other players who prefer short term gratification and eventually I could "out skill them." That's a personal choice that each player should make. So now, we will all progress roughly at the same rate.
Maybe socialism and fairness is the new idea in EVE but what I love about this game is the freedom to make decisions in a "free market" and unfair world, which is what life is all about. I submit that the kind of people who will stay in this game long term value EVE for the ability to make choices, even bad ones that ripple through time. The short term player, will still play short term regardless of now being able to learn faster.

So yes, while you have paid me back my investment you have robbed me of my even more valuable long term interest and my freedom to choose to seek an avenue of advantage.

You have appeased the masses but have ruined a valuable part of this game.

-Mariner6

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:57:00 - [401]
 

I feel a bit like a prophet now, just a few days ago I told my corp-mates that I suspected that CCP would remove the learning skills as a Christmas present and they now announced it :)

But seriously, this will be great for new players, it's one of the serious annoyances new players face, and I know of many that cited it as one of their reasons to leave eve (among people who didn't make it past their first month). To the rest, myself included, will welcome the couple mil skill point reimbursement :)

Well done CCP, well done.

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:58:00 - [402]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Damien Smith
Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.

If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?

Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?


Aww LOL dude... how naive...


Not naive, cautious. If we get a remap reset, then training up two learning skills with max attribs means you can end up with max training time between now and Dec 14th, then transfer those skillpoints into skills your attribs perform poorly on (I'm looking at you leadership skills).

If you can get sp moved from an alt, then you could transfer a separate account alt back on to your mains account, do a petition skillpoint swap and then move your alt back on to it's own account.

Just trying to exploit the system, that's all Wink

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:04:00 - [403]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Ultimately, we didn't do anything like this because we were on a tight schedule and we determined that it added more risk than benefit. That's what it came down to on a lot of these edge decisions.


Oh I do understand. Its simply a cost analysis of what works for the majority.

Your problem here is that the people affected are people who are not even medium-term subscribers. They may even be boxed-version customers. ie no sub signed up to.

I'd suggest you have a chat next time you sit down with the GMs and brief them to have a bit of leeway. The changes are superb for a new character, but not so great for one created in the last 4 weeks.

NB - for anyone wondering, none of my characters/accounts would be eligible.

No reply required Greyscale, thread is long enough.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:05:00 - [404]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:09:48
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: KurnKuku
Please please don't let the CSM whinge you into reversing this great idea.


Umm, the CSM passed a proposal a few months back advocating exactly this change -- with the addition of an extra remap (because of the changes this might cause in some people's mid-term training plans) and a very slight change in how remaps work (to better match max training skills). See the proposal for the exact details -- and props to Mashie Saldana, who ran a bunch of numbers in the original proposal thread.

The vote was close (5/4). In favor of the change were myself (the proposer), Mynxee, TeaDaze, Sokratesz, and Meissa.

Ahh that makes more sense. So we will get another att allowed in the remap, making it very close to the original max speed.

Can we have it confirmed by CCP please.


I think extra remap might be the second part of the "gift"

Gaspar Destrum
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:05:00 - [405]
 


Guess what the CSM also appears to have said...
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Umm, the CSM passed a proposal a few months back advocating exactly this change -- with [some differences]



Quote:

Important Caveats

Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:

* No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate.

* If skills are removed from the gain, skillpoints must be reimbursed.



apparently CCP really doesn't read these things.

Spacing Cowboy
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:06:00 - [406]
 

finaly, saved from newbie training ( learning ) mistakes


* woot ! *

Mkay tool-makers, gear up for epic-easy-redistribution plans :)

Missm Uppet
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:07:00 - [407]
 

Hmm, a couple million skill points to spend. It's really starting to feel like the holidays.

This change is very welcome and long overdue.

Thanks


Tarasina
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:07:00 - [408]
 

Originally by: Digital Emperor
Edited by: Digital Emperor on 25/11/2010 14:19:07









as far as i understand from this, you only reimburse the SP put into learning, What about the time spend on learning ? i mean, this timeframe used on learning skills could be used for something else, yet it havent since it was put into learning. But you only reimburse the SP in learning.

Have you even thought about that the correct thing would be x amount of SP take xxx amount of time, lets say 1 mil sp in learning. You give back 1 mil points. To be fair, that 1 mil could be placed in something else in that time, and should IMO be reimbursed too. and not only the SP in learning, ect. 1 mil sp in learning, should give you 2 mil sp to contribute in something else. since its lost training time.

What you guys are doing right now, is to just remove 1 month + gamining time, that people payed for, without giving nothing back really.











Not really. Learning skills are rank 1 and 3. If you put your reimbursed skillpoints in a rank 3 or higher skill, you actually get more time back (if I understand it correctly).

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:09:00 - [409]
 

Time to start planning on what to redistribute over 10m SP on across three different accounts. Very Happy

Niclas Solo
Amarr
Love n Peace
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:10:00 - [410]
 

Finally so nice to see this :D but what will i do with all the skillpoints? crosstrain to minmatar and get BS 5 right away mmm bhaalgorn or instead of starting carrier 1 that i had planed i could be almost done with carrier 5 :D

And Dec 14 is my birthday couldn't ask for a better present from CCP :D So since it's a birthday present to me maybe i could get a polaris frigate as my first half of the x-mas present? :P

But i do understand why some ppl don't like it, after this change what do we have left to make us a little better then the rest of the noobs? but i guess the ppl that didn't take time to train learning will still sucks a bit more then the ppl that can plan ahead.

It's good for eve, we will get many new players and don't lose ppl when the find out they must train boring skills that doesn't let them fly or do anything cool new stuff but still have to pay for the game.

Thanks.

L0rdF1end
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:10:00 - [411]
 

Im confused.

If I have increased attributes through learning skills do I keep those attribute points gained when this comes into effect?

If I do, would it not make sense to train leanring skills as much as poissible keeping the attribute increase and gaining the SP back to spend elsewhere?

Have I missed somethng here?

Something doesn't feel right.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:10:00 - [412]
 

I'm remapped, and wont get a new re-map till next year. I just wanted to clear up in my mind how this will effect remapped characters. After reading the blog, is it right to assume that the new points will be distributed according to how we have mapped our chars? Or do we expect to have them reset to the 20/20/20/20/19?

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:10:00 - [413]
 

Originally by: Cresalle
Quote:
Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned.


What constitutes 'recycling alts' and where is this rule stated?

Seriously, is there a list of these bizzare rules somewhere? I keep hearing people mention things but how the hell am I supposed to know what's hearsay and what's a real rule?


Someone hits you with the banstick.

Alternatively you could use your brain and realise that using an alt to gank people until said alt goes below -5 and then deleting him/her isn't fair. Not only is it not fair, its just pointless nonsense. Whats the point in another mind-numbingly boring gank?

I suspect you're not the type who understands that.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:10:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Resource Extractor
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Damien Smith
(...)


The skill points are reimbursed on a per character basis and they will not be transferred between accounts or characters.


I find this rather strange in a way.
Only one character can gain SP at the same time (only one char trains) so actually the SP belongs more to the account than to the character. I find it not more than logical that the account-holder can decide on which characters the "freed up SP" can be re-used.

As said before, most people have "finished" chars on accounts, and really would like to invest that SP in their training character.


Writing in big letters for better understandability: THERE ARE NO SP LOSS OR GAIN. TOTAL AMOUNT OF SP YOUR CHARACTERS HAVE WILL NOT BE CHANGED.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:12:00 - [415]
 

Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Digital Emperor

as far as i understand from this, you only reimburse the SP put into learning, What about the time spend on learning ? i mean, this timeframe used on learning skills could be used for something else, yet it havent since it was put into learning. But you only reimburse the SP in learning.

Have you even thought about that the correct thing would be x amount of SP take xxx amount of time, lets say 1 mil sp in learning. You give back 1 mil points. To be fair, that 1 mil could be placed in something else in that time, and should IMO be reimbursed too. and not only the SP in learning, ect. 1 mil sp in learning, should give you 2 mil sp to contribute in something else. since its lost training time.

What you guys are doing right now, is to just remove 1 month + gamining time, that people payed for, without giving nothing back really.



Not really. Learning skills are rank 1 and 3. If you put your reimbursed skillpoints in a rank 3 or higher skill, you actually get more time back (if I understand it correctly).

Training speed doesn't depend on skill rank, higher ranks just require more SP per level, so no you don't win anything, so there is some truth in what the greedy kid over there said

T0Y
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:12:00 - [416]
 

If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

Immortalade
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:13:00 - [417]
 

I think this is great move by CCP.
One question though. If a character is sold will the skillpool go with it or will it need to be used first?


Adeno4ka
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:13:00 - [418]
 

Edited by: Adeno4ka on 25/11/2010 15:14:54
sorry but i think it was stupid idea
you making EVE to casuality
welcome to wow\la2 in space

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:14:00 - [419]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 15:14:38
Originally by: Othran
Oh I do understand. Its simply a cost analysis of what works for the majority.

Your problem here is that the people affected are people who are not even medium-term subscribers. They may even be boxed-version customers. ie no sub signed up to.

I'd suggest you have a chat next time you sit down with the GMs and brief them to have a bit of leeway. The changes are superb for a new character, but not so great for one created in the last 4 weeks.

NB - for anyone wondering, none of my characters/accounts would be eligible.

No reply required Greyscale, thread is long enough.


It's as you name it, a "long-term planning". If you're incapable of it, EVE probably isn't for you.

Originally by: T0Y
If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:14:00 - [420]
 

Good news - hopefully the second part of the Christmas will be a Missile Code re-write to reduce lag (I believe they're working on it already)

As it turns out the 5.3 Million skill points in learning will fit nicely for my current Golem skill training queue wiping out circa 77 days of training in a heartbeat.

That can only be a good thing! Although it could also mean I'm not max stats ho hum no worries.


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