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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:36:00 - [361]
 

Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker
Originally by: Tonto Auri
You placed extra +12 points into implants instead of attributes. I fixed that for ya.
Now, I await your apology.

One More Time

before (now)
(base_attribute + 10 from learning 5/5 + 5 from (+5) imp) x1.1 (Learning)
For Int=10 -> 27.50 points
For char=3 -> 19.80 points

after 14
(base_attribute + 12 + 5 from (+5) imp)

For Int=10 -> 27.00
For char=3 -> 20.00


One more time - these 12 points IS THE BASE, NON-REMAPABLE (not like it affecting your dumb achura, but still) attributes. Not skills, not implants. Not even remapable pool you could shift here and there.

Rasta Rick
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:36:00 - [362]
 

To begin with, I'd like to say I am very happy with this change.
I hope it will increase the chance that trial players become subscribers, increasing the player base, giving us more people to interact with (shoot) and giving CCP more money Smile

But, I would like to see two changes to the original proposal (both already proposed by other people):
1 - throw in 2 additional remappable points (in addition to the 5x12 nonmappable)
2 - pool the skillpoint for all characters on each account and allow the player to freely distribute it to the characters on said account

Rationale:
1 - two-fold, a), +2 remappable points will ensure that noone will train slower than before, making it a win for everyone, b) it will actually increase the training speed by a few percent for everyone and it will thus (slightly) address the bigger issue that training in EVE takes so long time that some players quit
2- this helps us that have trained alts on an acount because our alts have finished their training and do not need more skill points. The training time was taken from the main so it is only fair that we can give the skill points back to him if we chose

Thank you






Lord Midnight
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:37:00 - [363]
 

So I am confused.

We are getting 12 points per attribute to replace all learning skill points?

Are implants staying in game?

My alt has maximum learning skills (to the tune of 20-odd mil SP). Do I get all that SP to redistribute after the change? (If I dont there shall be much capslock).

Warmistress Severine
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:37:00 - [364]
 

4.6 Million skillpoints to waste... Shocked Woohoo!!!!! Twisted EvilLaughingVery HappySmile

Insta Carrier?
Insta BlackOps?
Insta...

Holy s.h.i.t, i have to check EveMon to plan this... ^^

Best X-Mas present so far CCP.


Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:38:00 - [365]
 

This was inevitable and it is welcome news. To all the players asking for their time back; if you played the game while you were training your learning skill to begin with then you already had your time, if you were sitting in station and spinning your ship while training the learning skills then you already lost the time so nothing to reimburse.


Slade

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:38:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Tonto Auri

Originally by: Mag's
Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.


Originally by: Dev blog
All new and existing characters will have an extra 12 base points (ie, non-remappable) in each attribute.

F!, yeah... It wasn't in dev blog. I'm just making it up.

Resource Extractor
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:39:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: Resource Extractor on 25/11/2010 14:39:37
Originally by: Rasta Rick
To begin with, I'd like to say I am very (...)
2 - pool the skillpoint for all characters on each account and allow the player to freely distribute it to the characters on said account

(...)
2- this helps us that have trained alts on an acount because our alts have finished their training and do not need more skill points. The training time was taken from the main so it is only fair that we can give the skill points back to him if we chose



Agree with this. Or, just like with the previous SP pool, allow us to petition under the Skills & Clones category in Reimburstment to move it to a specific character of choice.

DudeWhere'sMyTitan
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:40:00 - [368]
 

Edited by: DudeWhere''sMyTitan on 25/11/2010 14:40:17
Originally by: Warmistress Severine
4.6 Million skillpoints to waste... Shocked Woohoo!!!!! Twisted EvilLaughingVery HappySmile

Insta Carrier?
Insta BlackOps?
Insta...

Holy s.h.i.t, i have to check EveMon to plan this... ^^

Best X-Mas present so far CCP.




remember while your planning you'll get more time saved if you place the points in skills your NOT currently set to learn remap wise.

northroop Grumman
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:40:00 - [369]
 

Edited by: northroop Grumman on 25/11/2010 14:40:26
I probably missed it, but just to verify. If I have currently:

Int 26.40
Mem 26.40
Will 26.40
Precep 26.40
Char 19.80

Becuase I have maxed out my Achura skills and implants. At the end of the day. I should have the same attribute and distribution?


Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:41:00 - [370]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Tonto Auri

Originally by: Mag's
Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.


Originally by: Dev blog
All new and existing characters will have an extra 12 base points (ie, non-remappable) in each attribute.

F!, yeah... It wasn't in dev blog. I'm just making it up.

Did you even read my post and the link therein?

Master Flakattack
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:42:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
This was inevitable and it is welcome news. To all the players asking for their time back; if you played the game while you were training your learning skill to begin with then you already had your time, if you were sitting in station and spinning your ship while training the learning skills then you already lost the time so nothing to reimburse.


Slade


You misunderstand. The time spent training the learning attributes was done at lower SP totals and in the early days (like 06 for me) this was done without a speed boost for new players. It was slow as hell and cost a LOT of extra time, on top of the normal training time.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:42:00 - [372]
 

so all teh carebears who now like to pvp get a chance to put it all in pvp skills?


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:44:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Mag's
[back and forth]

Did you read my post and the link therein?
Somewhere in this thread, one of the devs said that they only changes are what's in the blog — remapping doesn't change in any way except for some UI improvements (and, obviously, getting rid of the "Skills" column).

Hades Goldberg
Abyss Walkers
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:44:00 - [374]
 

That thing will ruin role playing aspect of being smart, or just be dumb dude who just want to grab gun and shoot.

As in real life some people are smarter than others, or be just genius or study more, or just train your brains, body or you name it to get advantage over rest.

I'm not happy with it.

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:45:00 - [375]
 

Although of course not 100% fair for everyone this was necessary. Approved ^^
And hey 2,2 Mill skillpoints is a nice christmas present indeed Laughing

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:45:00 - [376]
 

Originally by: Lord Midnight
So I am confused.

We are getting 12 points per attribute to replace all learning skill points?

Are implants staying in game?

My alt has maximum learning skills (to the tune of 20-odd mil SP). Do I get all that SP to redistribute after the change? (If I dont there shall be much capslock).


Did you read dev blog?

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2010.11.25 14:45:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, I take the point that the ISK is most significant to newer players, but if they've already spent the money then they're already coping. It would be better for them to get it back, sure, but they're not in a worse position after the change. That's where we're coming from here - nobody is worse off in absolute terms.


Yes I recognise that they are better off in the long term.

That's not what motivates NEW players though and if they've just spent the equivalent of a couple of fitted cruisers on adv learning then they're not going to be happy bunnies.

Its a small group, why not just deal with it in a newbie-friendly way? For example your beancounters could run a script which removes multiple accounts with the same CC registered to it from the process with no problems at all. Then run a script checking on buddy subbies/power-of-two and remove them. Run script on account age under 2 months - beancounters check will do that. Credit everyone remaining with 25mill. Job done. Obviously active subs only.

See I still just about remember what its like to start this game. You spend the 25mill on adv learning in the expectation that it pays you back over the year in reduced training time. While you do that you struggle to pay for anything else.

You're really sort of slapping the newbies that had read up and learned with this one but meh its your revenue stream Wink


Ultimately, we didn't do anything like this because we were on a tight schedule and we determined that it added more risk than benefit. That's what it came down to on a lot of these edge decisions.


Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Tonto Auri

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27

Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.


To be completely clear on this and other points, our intent is to implement exactly what is specified in the blog. No more and no less. If it's not explicitly mentioned in the blog, it's not happening.

Paul Muad'hib
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:46:00 - [378]
 

I might be one of the few, but I do not like that plan.
First, it does not stimulate long-term planning. (What's next?)
Second, the complexer this game is to understand, the better.
To make it complex, you should add skills, not decrease the level of intelligence required to play this game.

Hurray for the reimbursements in SP, but playing only for a few months, I didn't get so much advancement as the ones playing the game for a year or longer with (nearly) complete learning skills. So in comparison I invested relatively more in my learning skills than they did, more isk in my newbie time which I could have used as investment in other stuff, if I knew this was going to happen.

You probably are keen to finally implement gamechanges for er.. a change, but I rather would advise you to fix the bugs now present for very long time.
Anyway I know you won't listen to me, so consider this opinion as an excercise in ventilating my emotions in a more civilized way.

With kind regards,

a concerned player.

pook
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:47:00 - [379]
 

OK!! This char started in July 2003 could not be HAPPIER. This is epic winsauce for Eve-Online. I applaud the forward thinking here. There is no bad about this. Let's look at the big picture for you self-centered neysayers.Did you maxx out your learning skills years ago like I did? Great!! Now we get to redistribute over 5mil sp's into something useful. No more tears please. There is more to the game than you yourself. Full steam ahead CCP. Happy Holidays

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:47:00 - [380]
 

with nearly 100m sp on my char i do not care that i have 'lost' a few months in the past 5 years ago or whatever, im FAR more interested in redistributing them NOW to what i want.

See See Peeeeeeee,.......funk yeah!!

Thorleifer
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:48:00 - [381]
 

so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:48:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger
Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.

Thanks in advance.


You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill.



Will this be on a per character basis or a pool you can spread around the account? Reason I ask is if you have 3 chars and trained learning skills on all 3 then it is essentially time used up training (now) unnecessary skills x 3. If you have one main and two alts the effect is you have lost time training on the main twice (from the alts)



A per character basis.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:48:00 - [383]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mag's
[back and forth]

Did you read my post and the link therein?
Somewhere in this thread, one of the devs said that they only changes are what's in the blog — remapping doesn't change in any way except for some UI improvements (and, obviously, getting rid of the "Skills" column).

Yea well that seems to be the situation. But I was asking for confirmation because Trebor Daehdoow of the CSM posted this.

Estimated Prophet
Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe and Trading Company
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:49:00 - [384]
 

Originally by: Starfall Achura
Am I the only guy in the game that liked learning skills? Guess so... Shocked



I'm on the fence about them. On the one hand they're sand in the sandbox; people get to choose how far to train them, making a trade-off faster skill training, and training other skills right now. On the other hand they are a problem for new players, where training skills that will have a long term impact gets in the way of having fun that will encourage them to stay for the long term. By the time you get to your second character/account you know what they're all about, have a character to play and the ISK to buy the skillbooks, and you're in for the long term; at this point they're not really a problem.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:49:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/11/2010 14:51:30
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
To be completely clear on this and other points, our intent is to implement exactly what is specified in the blog. No more and no less. If it's not explicitly mentioned in the blog, it's not happening.
One thing that was brought up in another thread, and feel free to call me silly for not seeing it:

What happens with the free SP pool if you transfer the character? Is it tied to the character so that someone purchasing a character with N SP in Learning skills will now buy a character with N freely distributable SP?

If, in ye olde database, the character is just a row with "ownedByID" at one end and "SPYetToBlowOnFunStuff" in the other, I would assume that the transfer is mainly a matter of flipping that first ID and then you get those yummy SP along with it…?

Ramon Sohei
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:49:00 - [386]
 

Good decision! Thanks CCP

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:49:00 - [387]
 

Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.

If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?

Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:49:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: Thorleifer
so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.

Unless they decide to add an attribute to redistributable pool (The suggested 20/20/20/20/20 change) - no.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:50:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Thorleifer
so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.


There will be no free remap as remaps are not being changed.

As CCP Greyscale has already said, if it is not in the blog it is not happening.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:51:00 - [390]
 

Originally by: Damien Smith
Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.

If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?

Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?


The skill points are reimbursed on a per character basis and they will not be transferred between accounts or characters.


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