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KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:21:00 - [331]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 25/11/2010 14:21:14
Originally by: Digital Emperor
as far as i understand from this, you only reimburse the SP put into learning, What about the time spend on learning ? i mean, this timeframe used on learning skills could be used for something else, yet it havent since it was put into learning. But you only reimburse the SP in learning.

Have you even thought about that the correct thing would be x amount of SP take xxx amount of time, lets say 1 mil sp in learning. You give back 1 mil points. To be fair, that 1 mil could be placed in something else in that time, and should IMO be reimbursed too. and not only the SP in learning, ect. 1 mil sp in learning, should give you 2 mil sp to contribute in something else. since its lost training time.

What you guys are doing right now, is to just remove 1 month + gamining time, that people payed for, without giving nothing back really.


So how exactly are you worse off than this with the change?

Why do you think you should get the month back? Perhaps it is because 'I had to waste a month of training on this, and therefore I am not happy unless everyone else does' ?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:21:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 14:11:42
Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker
My old char have my love stats (+5 imps, perfect learn's)

Redrick
Int 10 27,50
per 10 27,50
char 3 19,80
will 6 23,10
mem 10 27,50
summ: 125,40

Redrick_after14
Int 10 27,00
per 10 27,00
char 3 20,00
will 6 23,00
mem 10 27,00
summ: 124,00
I am do not need to booooost Charisma, I AM ACHURA! DO NOT TACH ME!




Redrick fixed for ya
Int 22 27
per 22 27
char 15 20
will 18 23
mem 22 27
summ: 124


(base_attribute+10 from learn+5 from imps)*1.1
noob


You placed extra +12 points into implants instead of attributes. I fixed that for ya.
Now, I await your apology.

Master Flakattack
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:22:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Master Flakattack
CCP... this is a great idea. The only issue I have, and it is not a big one:
The time lost training learning skills. Perhaps some bonus SP for characters who spent a lot of time training learning?

I hope that can be addressed. Nonetheless, this is still a great idea and I (and my friends) really appreciate this! I hated having to train learning skills up before I really got into the game...

Originally by: Wirox Crotikus
TBH, for us old players this sucks. No offence. But it does.

Reason why is, the time we spent on training these learning skills is NOT 5.376mil SP... Cuz it took me more time and more SP training these. Then i actually get back.
What i meen is, that i was training these learning skillpoints with 8-900 sp/hour... And i could have trained a lot of other skills instead.
This meens that in theory this is just a number but i think that i where more likly to have 8mil sp instead og the 5.376mil SP. Cuz, i spent my useless training time to get these skills op. Where now they just get them.
CCP is atm seeking more ways to get money and therefor getting more players to play. But they are forgetting the old players...
This is just my 2cent. Atleast im glad that i get my SP reimburset.


Looks like we both have the same question lol. I'm reposting in an effort to get this noticed.

Naiqton
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:23:00 - [334]
 

When start the next plan when all skills will rid from game? :S

Whats the reason about this change? Less new player coming to play? Maybe better change if end plex tradeable state. Maybe less player leave the game...

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:23:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger
Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.

Thanks in advance.


You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:24:00 - [336]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 14:24:57
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
WOW! Way to screw the pooch. Anyone remember Star Wars Galaxies when they converted all the potential characters had to 8 simple templates? This is the same idea. Dumb the game down to keep the noob kid base happy at the expense of the players who worked to understand the game. Like a lot of people I spent the 3 months training those extra skills to 5 to have the advantage over my pirate friends who spent the time grinding weapon skills and ****d me every time I stepped in the wrong system. Now those same people want the same advantage of the person who spent the time to train it and still keep their pew pew.

Thank you CCP for becoming more like Star Wars Galaxies daily. First with the patch for more broken crap and now with taking one of the better parts of the games ability to create individuals away so PVPer can have their guns and all the skills they want to. I'll wait until next year see how this all works out, but this will more than likely be the end of my 4 year run in EVE.


You missing the point.
More noobs in space = more targets = more joy.

Originally by: Anubus53
Not sure if this has been covered in the 11 pages of comments yet but, what will happen to the remapping system and our current remaps? I've got 29perc/25will atm (+4's), will those remain the same or how will they it change?Question


Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27

Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will impliment.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:25:00 - [337]
 

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy




Cheaper clones Laughing (no seriously.. clone costs are getting ridiculously expensive at my skillpoint levels...)


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:25:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
WOW! Way to screw the pooch. Anyone remember Star Wars Galaxies when they converted all the potential characters had to 8 simple templates?
Yes?
Quote:
This is the same idea.
No.

You see, there are still nearly 500M SP in other skills that actually create variety between what players can and can't do with their characters. The skills being removed here were special in that they didn't add to that variety. If anything, this change is a move away from uniformity and archetypal setups since we can no longer assume that everyone will have these pointless skills.

Lillith Starfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:26:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger
Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.

Thanks in advance.


You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill.



Will this be on a per character basis or a pool you can spread around the account? Reason I ask is if you have 3 chars and trained learning skills on all 3 then it is essentially time used up training (now) unnecessary skills x 3. If you have one main and two alts the effect is you have lost time training on the main twice (from the alts)

Einear Lightfingers
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:26:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 14:24:57
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
WOW! Way to screw the pooch. Anyone remember Star Wars Galaxies when they converted all the potential characters had to 8 simple templates? This is the same idea. Dumb the game down to keep the noob kid base happy at the expense of the players who worked to understand the game. Like a lot of people I spent the 3 months training those extra skills to 5 to have the advantage over my pirate friends who spent the time grinding weapon skills and ****d me every time I stepped in the wrong system. Now those same people want the same advantage of the person who spent the time to train it and still keep their pew pew.

Thank you CCP for becoming more like Star Wars Galaxies daily. First with the patch for more broken crap and now with taking one of the better parts of the games ability to create individuals away so PVPer can have their guns and all the skills they want to. I'll wait until next year see how this all works out, but this will more than likely be the end of my 4 year run in EVE.


You missing the point.
More noobs in space = more targets = more joy.

Originally by: Anubus53
Not sure if this has been covered in the 11 pages of comments yet but, what will happen to the remapping system and our current remaps? I've got 29perc/25will atm (+4's), will those remain the same or how will they it change?Question


Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27

Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will impliment.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.


Exactly more pew pew pew for you a the expense of the folks who are not in to pew pew pew. Might as well just give you all the admin password to the servers so you can disconnect everyone for your fleet ops.

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:27:00 - [341]
 

Methinks there's going to be a lot of new Minnie/Amarr pilots after this.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:28:00 - [342]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 14:27:52
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
Quote:
You missing the point.
More noobs in space = more targets = more joy.


Exactly more pew pew pew for you a the expense of the folks who are not in to pew pew pew. Might as well just give you all the admin password to the servers so you can disconnect everyone for your fleet ops.


It's not my problem.
Also learn to quote properly.

Thorleifer
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:28:00 - [343]
 

I hope they allow us a free remap from this, it is good, but has the potential of kinda sucking hardcore for someone who remapping recently, they are stuck for a year, and that is not very fair.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:28:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: Tippia
we can no longer assume that everyone will have these pointless skills.
Actually everyone is being given them for free, effectively. So now, for the first time, we can assume people will have them. They will just not be in the list.

Starfall Achura
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:28:00 - [345]
 

Am I the only guy in the game that liked learning skills? Guess so... Shocked

Well, where do I go to get the time I put into these skills back, no, not sp, I said time. Yes, I would like my time back, who do I petition for that reimbursement? Laughing

Qoi
Exert Force
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:29:00 - [346]
 

This will benefit every new player, this is great! Very Happy

Orbite
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:29:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
but this will more than likely be the end of my 4 year run in EVE.
Can I haz your stuff? Also, moar tears please, my ships need fuel.

Rellik Sadab
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:29:00 - [348]
 

How will the 12 points be distributed? Will they automatically be assigned to the attributes? or will we be given a choice where to apply them?

Naldyn
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:29:00 - [349]
 

"This meens that in theory this is just a number but i think that i where more likly to have 8mil sp instead og the 5.376mil SP. Cuz, i spent my useless training time to get these skills op. Where now they just get them."

Yeah, i have character with full learning skills. I payed for that play time. Hope CCP will not ruin this game. :(

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:30:00 - [350]
 

Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 25/11/2010 14:30:32
mhm, nvm

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:30:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Starfall Achura
Am I the only guy in the game that liked learning skills? Guess so... Shocked

Well, where do I go to get the time I put into these skills back, no, not sp, I said time. Yes, I would like my time back, who do I petition for that reimbursement? Laughing


You don't, at the time you trained, that was the way it was done. The change means the new players don't have to go through that burden.

RedrickShoohart Joker
SoT
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:31:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
You placed extra +12 points into implants instead of attributes. I fixed that for ya.
Now, I await your apology.

One More Time

before (now)
(base_attribute + 10 from learning 5/5 + 5 from (+5) imp) x1.1 (Learning)
For Int=10 -> 27.50 points
For char=3 -> 19.80 points

after 14
(base_attribute + 12 + 5 from (+5) imp)

For Int=10 -> 27.00
For char=3 -> 20.00

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:31:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, I take the point that the ISK is most significant to newer players, but if they've already spent the money then they're already coping. It would be better for them to get it back, sure, but they're not in a worse position after the change. That's where we're coming from here - nobody is worse off in absolute terms.


Yes I recognise that they are better off in the long term.

That's not what motivates NEW players though and if they've just spent the equivalent of a couple of fitted cruisers on adv learning then they're not going to be happy bunnies.

Its a small group, why not just deal with it in a newbie-friendly way? For example your beancounters could run a script which removes multiple accounts with the same CC registered to it from the process with no problems at all. Then run a script checking on buddy subbies/power-of-two and remove them. Run script on account age under 2 months - beancounters check will do that. Credit everyone remaining with 25mill. Job done. Obviously active subs only.

See I still just about remember what its like to start this game. You spend the 25mill on adv learning in the expectation that it pays you back over the year in reduced training time. While you do that you struggle to pay for anything else.

You're really sort of slapping the newbies that had read up and learned with this one but meh its your revenue stream Wink

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:31:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Rellik Sadab
How will the 12 points be distributed? Will they automatically be assigned to the attributes? or will we be given a choice where to apply them?
What they're doing is simply add 12 pts to each base attribute your new minimum attribute score will be 17 instead of the old 5.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:32:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Rellik Sadab
How will the 12 points be distributed?


Read. Dev. Blog.
If english is your native tongue you have absolutely no excuse for this your question.

Crimsonjade
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:32:00 - [356]
 

Only bad part of this change is figuring put where to put all the sp!
It's a good way IMO to keep new players interested, god knows I didn't like training them.
Now I can finish some lvl 5 skill that takes 64 days.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:34:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27

Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.


It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.

Tergiminius
Binary Star
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:35:00 - [358]
 

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but will there be a skillpoint remap also available for all chars ? This is going to affect some peoples training plans who've planned their next remap based on a schedule.

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:35:00 - [359]
 

im not bothered that learning skills are going, tbh its nice to have the sp's back. but why it has to actually effect some players in a negative way is a bit daft.

21/20/20/20/19 is really what it should be to not effect players that much. is it that hard to alter the attribute changing scrpit to look at the highest base amount and add an extra point? then just make that point remapible and issue sorted.

for the people stating you get the learning skill points for free, well no you dont, you trained them they are yours.

Terrorform
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:35:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger
Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.

Thanks in advance.


You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill. [/quote]

EPIC Very HappyVery Happy


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