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Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:53:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
While I cannot say I am happy to see Eve being made (in my opinion) less complex, I applaud CCP (and the CSM) for coming up with an eminently fair way of removing them.
thing is, in opinion of many, the learning skills were a needless thing, since for optimal training you are pretty much required to train them anyway, which means lost time in the end.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:53:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Why not make it 20 across the board? At least this will be closer to the 2772 speed we get now.
As it stands, you're slowing many peoples training.

I guess you have forgotten that attribute remaps increased the theroetical max speed. CCP gives and CCP takes.

Brianna Bloodfang
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:54:00 - [273]
 

this change will mean MUCH greater new player retention. more new players= more newbs for the bittervets to pop. And its not like you LOSE any sp. (until 2018 that is.)


I for one applaud this change. Best of all, if the patch goes in on the 14th of december like the blog says, i'll be getting a load of SP back on my first wedding anni. ugh


now can you please fix the forums? 8 logins and counting to post this so far, and then gave up on firefox. IGB got it.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:55:00 - [274]
 

OK ... it's like this ...

You have two kinds of people ... those who just want everything as fast as they can get it and don't give a damn about using their intellect to plan anything out - or to work for anything - and those who aren't idiots.

Type A here ... doesn't give a damn about anything but getting what they want NOW!!! -- NOW!!! NOW!!!! NOW!!!!!!

Type B here - thinks about things and benefits in the long term from doing things in an intelligent manner.


You've just rewarded all the impatient little ****s - and dumbed down the game.

Those with discipline - who would work hard in the beginning that they might benefit from it later ... well ... you don't have as many of them ... so ... you'll probably end up with more subscribers by doing this - and that after all - is all you really care about. The game will be more appealing to impatient little ****s and less appealing to those with intellect.

*shrug*

Whatever ...

I've seen gaming companies go straight to hell amidst massive cheering before (massive cheering on the part of impatient little ****s) so I know better than to think that the few voices in opposition to dumbing down the game will even be heard. I hope that all of you cheering this decision enjoy the type of community we will have as the impatient little ****s become even more dominant than they are now - but - the weeding out process of impatient little ****s - who were to damn impatient to learn their learning skills and quit the game - was a good thing. It increased the average intelligence of those playing the game.

The period of learning also gave new players a buffer, a time in which to gain some in game experience before they began training for things they knew absolutely nothing about. Yes ... I'm certain ... that you will have lots and lots more impatient little ****s running around in Drakes - a whole lot sooner than they would have been - and clearly having absolutely no idea what they are doing. Of course - when they lose those ships and are begging in local for money ... I'm not ****ing going to give them any ... and maybe we'll shed ourselves of a few impatient little ****s through that process. Of course ... they'll be more coming down the pipe.


Anyway ...


Congratulations to the developers for succumbing to this stupidity - if you get tired of working for CCP - you can always find a home over at SOE - where you'll fit right in.


Oh ... and just in case you thought your selves superior to the people over at SOE ... here's a clue - you're not. You just proved it.



111kartel111
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:55:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: Gripen
Edited by: Gripen on 25/11/2010 13:54:27
Hmm. I just got and _AMAZING_ idea which should be very welcome be everyone who want learnings to be removed: why do we need attribute implants? They are so mandatory and boring to get isks for. They are also discourage a lot of people from joining PvP. Let's remove them and give everybody +5 free atrributes. That would be so awesome!!!111!!


Ill vote for thatCool.
Edit: could this be the second part of christmas present pretty please?

Terrorform
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:55:00 - [276]
 

Edited by: Terrorform on 25/11/2010 13:59:34
Originally by: ForgePriceRunner
Today I have 15 base points + 10 in skills + 5 from implants times 1.1 from the skill "Learning".
That equals to 33 points of Perception.
With the new system it'll be 15 base points + 12 + 5 from implants, equals 32.

Same goes for Willpower old was 26.4 new will be 26.

This way you effectively have cut my max training ability from 2,772 SP/hour to 2,700 SP/hour.

Why not just add 13 base points instead of 12 and that way keep everyone happy ?
Or as someone else mentioned stick to 12 and grant an extra 2 points to be added as the player pleases

Its not like that those extra base points for each attribute is gonna make the player base insta train all the skills.
But with this change you'll make it take even longer to train the skills you want.


I second this. Smile

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:56:00 - [277]
 

Speaking of 20/20/20/20/20... with one more point in remap... I'd appreciate that one more attribute point... /lick

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:56:00 - [278]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/11/2010 14:01:29
Originally by: Gaspar Destrum
math

my current remap is a 33 pers 26.4 will 22 elsewhere
after the change i will only have 32 pers 26 will
1.4 *60*24*365 = 735840
Your math is wrong. You only get half the amount of SP from your secondary attribute, remember? That .4 difference between the old and new secondary attribute value only generates a .2 difference in SP gain.

1.2 60 24 365 = 630,720

And, as others have pointed out should be counted against the amount of wasted SP you get back. To get those two attributes alone at those levels, you would have had to invest 2.3M SP into learning skills, so it will take 3 years and 232 days before you start having less "proper skill" SP than you would have had with the current system (assuming you could have kept that SP gain rate up for 100% of the time)

So in late 2014, you can start complaining that you're falling behind at a rate of 72 SP/h assuming you only ever train one type of skills and have only trained the exact four learning skills that boost those attributes and no others. If you trained any other learning skills and/or at any point during this time wanders off your optimal primary/secondary combo, we'll have to look even further into the future before it's time to start complaining.

Verys
I Heart Chaos
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:57:00 - [279]
 


Lillith Starfire
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:57:00 - [280]
 

Edited by: Lillith Starfire on 25/11/2010 13:57:32
Will skill points be returned on a per character basis or totalled up for an entire account? (to be spent on whichever character you want?)

Wirox Crotikus
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:57:00 - [281]
 

TBH, for us old players this sucks. No offence. But it does.

Reason why is, the time we spent on training these learning skills is NOT 5.376mil SP... Cuz it took me more time and more SP training these. Then i actually get back.
What i meen is, that i was training these learning skillpoints with 8-900 sp/hour... And i could have trained a lot of other skills instead.
This meens that in theory this is just a number but i think that i where more likly to have 8mil sp instead og the 5.376mil SP. Cuz, i spent my useless training time to get these skills op. Where now they just get them.
CCP is atm seeking more ways to get money and therefor getting more players to play. But they are forgetting the old players...
This is just my 2cent. Atleast im glad that i get my SP reimburset.

El Liptonez
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:57:00 - [282]
 

CCP you just blew my mind.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:57:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Terrorform
Originally by: ForgePriceRunner
Today I have 15 base points + 10 in skills + 5 from implants times 1.1 from the skill "Learning".
That equals to 33 points of Perception.
With the new system it'll be 15 base points + 12 + 5 from implants, equals 32.

Same goes for Willpower old was 26.4 new will be 26.

This way you effectively have cut my max training ability from 2,772 SP/hour to 2,700 SP/hour.

Why not just add 13 base points instead of 12 and that way keep everyonehappy ?
Or as someone else mentioned stick to 12 and grant an extra 2 points to be added as the player pleases

Its not like that those extra base points for each attribute is gonna make the player base insta train all the skills.
But with this change you'll make it take even longer to train the skills you want.


I second this. Smile

Out of curiosity, what was the highest speed you could skill at before the attribute remaps?

Judas Scammer
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:58:00 - [284]
 

Edited by: Judas Scammer on 25/11/2010 14:01:01
ATTENTION WHINERS:

If you lose 72sp/h but you will gain 6M sp.
6 000 000/72 ? How many hours would that be?





Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:59:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Mag's
Why not make it 20 across the board? At least this will be closer to the 2772 speed we get now.
As it stands, you're slowing many peoples training.

I guess you have forgotten that attribute remaps increased the theroetical max speed. CCP gives and CCP takes.

So you're admitting it's a step backwards? Razz

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:59:00 - [286]
 

As others have said, good going, and it'll help with newer player retention.

I am however somewhat dismayed, that CCP thinks we're all somehow charismatically impaired. Oh wait, this is Eve forums, very insightful, CCP.

Now I have to decide what to do with 3.5mil SP. How about a +1 RL wisdom attribute while you're at it.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:00:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Estimated Prophet
Originally by: Akita T
20/20/20/20/19 = BAD !!!
20/20/20/20/20 = GOOD !

Rabble rabble OCD rabble !



Yes, why the 19? Does CCP have something against trade and leadership skills?

Exactly ! Fight the great injustice of injusticeness ! All hail something !

eXeCutA
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:01:00 - [288]
 

Edited by: eXeCutA on 25/11/2010 14:07:06
Nice work CCP!

Sounds like a much better deal for us +1

more players, more to kill, more to build, more to sell!

Omega Tron
Amarr
Amarr Mining Inc
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:01:00 - [289]
 

Damn fine plan. What took you so long?

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:02:00 - [290]
 

Originally by: Gaspar Destrum
i for one detest this change for 2 reasons

1) it will not get me back the 5 months of isk earning timei lost learning my learning to 5/5
2) it will be costing me 735840 SPs/year till i quit eve.
----


1)So you think everyone else should also have to suffer this burden?
2)You will be getting a pool of over 5 million SP, deduct 735840 from that each year. I doubt you will care about this when it eventually runs out in 8 years or so.

Njana Ti
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:03:00 - [291]
 

I LOVE that one! Well done!

Whiners: All you want is others to suffer the same as you did, confess!! Booooooo!

Laughing

zz01shagsme
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:03:00 - [292]
 

BONUS: Anyone want a level 5 Orca pilot?

LOL


Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:03:00 - [293]
 

Originally by: Judas Scammer
Edited by: Judas Scammer on 25/11/2010 14:01:01
ATTENTION WHINERS:

If you lose 72sp/h but you will gain 6M sp.
6 000 000/72 ? How many hours would that be?



http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510&page=9#263

Hardreign
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:04:00 - [294]
 

Bravo.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:04:00 - [295]
 

This next couple of months just keeps getting better :D
Nice one CCP

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:04:00 - [296]
 

Originally by: Wirox Crotikus
TBH, for us old players this sucks. No offence. But it does.

Reason why is, the time we spent on training these learning skills is NOT 5.376mil SP... Cuz it took me more time and more SP training these. Then i actually get back.



So you think that everyone else should also have to suffer this burden?

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:04:00 - [297]
 

Originally by: KurnKuku
Please please don't let the CSM whinge you into reversing this great idea.


Umm, the CSM passed a proposal a few months back advocating exactly this change -- with the addition of an extra remap (because of the changes this might cause in some people's mid-term training plans) and a very slight change in how remaps work (to better match max training skills). See the proposal for the exact details -- and props to Mashie Saldana, who ran a bunch of numbers in the original proposal thread.

The vote was close (5/4). In favor of the change were myself (the proposer), Mynxee, TeaDaze, Sokratesz, and Meissa.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:05:00 - [298]
 

Hurray! Now I can sit and wonder what to insta train with my skillpointzboostin.

Cool. Very Happy

C.

synesthetics
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:05:00 - [299]
 

Edited by: synesthetics on 25/11/2010 14:06:05
ExclamationExclamationExclamationQUESTION FOR CCP:ExclamationExclamationExclamation

the learning skillbooks will be removed from TQ.. this means there is no way to profit from them from stocking them, cause they wont become a discontiniued item.
but there ARE a couple of skillbooks which are discontiniued, i.e. salvage drone, DED connections etc.

is removing those skillbooks as well? cause this is a good moment to get rid of the discontiniued skillbooks and backstab the owners.
those skillbooks can cost alot on the market! 500mil for 1 DED is normal.

can CCP confirm that those skillbooks will be untouched?


tnx!

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:06:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: Gripen
Edited by: Gripen on 25/11/2010 13:54:27
Hmm. I just got and _AMAZING_ idea which should be very welcome be everyone who want learnings to be removed: why do we need attribute implants? They are so mandatory and boring to get isks for. They are also discourage a lot of people from joining PvP. Let's remove them and give everybody +5 free atrributes. That would be so awesome!!!111!!

Edit: could this be the second part of christmas present pretty please?


Implants are a risk vs reward thing.

Learning skills are a reward vs reward thing.


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