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Azaiya
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:19:00 - [181]
 

Reading this I can't help but think that the game of EVE is not doing well. In my experience you only need to diversify revenue streams if you are no longer in a state of growth or if you want to capitalise on growth. As you yourself have ruled out in your own blog that you are not doing this out of greed, but rather because you feel that if you don't you will fall behind the competition, then you must be fearful that your model for this game is no longer working, hence the change.

My question to you at EVE is.... Do you really think the problem lays in your business model for revenue, or (and this is my belief) is your desire to bring in new features without polishing that which you already have driven people away? If it is the later, all your doing is squeezing more and more money out of a decreasing user base, the people who play this game are not stupid, they will see this, and eventually they to will leave too.

Personally I think you took a decision long ago to go a specific path and now you have committed to that path you no longer are willing to listen to reason.

Good luck with your endeavour, I for one will not be funding it though.

Bye

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:28:00 - [182]
 

Thank you CCP for listening to us on this issue. I suspect the goodwill generated by that action will go a long way. Though I suspect there will be as much "Ohnoes CCP you hate me" as ever from some corners.

However, if the cost to modify the appearance of the AV is high, such as it is now,$15 to change a little picture, when most other games allow this out of the box, then that previously mentioned goodwill, will be fleeting.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:40:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Dakisha
Does this mean there are things I won't be able to get without spending more money past my subscription cost? That is to say, clothes, custom paintjobs, etc?



I for one will be walking in stations naked or in the ugliest freebie clothes I can find.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:54:00 - [184]
 

I was looking forward to plex for remap. Thanks a lot, bitter vets.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:56:00 - [185]
 

GAH! Still no Chribba Sad

I do have a question though. If magic can make dinosaurs disappear, what else can it do?


alittlebirdy
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:57:00 - [186]
 

lol BS BS BS, hey ccp please list everyone going down this road *AND* keeping a sub charge.

-3 eve accounts, +1 WoT account with epic amounts of gold.

LOL CCP wants MORE money for a buggy ass game... man you guys crack me up!

You can take your clothing and shove it up your ass.

Ship decals? Hows that gona work with the lag, is it gona be client only? I'mma spend $30 to have a supid logo only I can see?

Ah just ideas... but the WRONG ideas...

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:58:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu / Blog
*snip*
If we don‘t react to the wishes of the market we will simply become the dinosaurs of the industry. And everyone knows what happens to dinosaurs. God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.

As long as you don't behave like lemmings Rolling EyesWink

To be true, I didn't see this retreat coming. Hadn't closely followed the 'rage/discussions' about it and personally filed them under 'minor, but reasonable'.
On the other hand - if I ever needed a sign of you guys being 'in touch with your customers', who 'live to play this game' - you just proved it.
I'll probably never end my subscription now. EmbarassedSmile

Originally by: CCP Zulu / Blog
*snip*
The scope will be (and there‘s no design be done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.
*snip*

I'm looking forward to that!

Other ideas:
- custom colours on ships
- custom colours on POS/Outpost
- alliance logos via PLEX
- advertisement on billboards via PLEX

Might need the splitting of PLEX into smaller pieces for smaller purchases (1-day-PLEX even)?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.11.23 00:58:00 - [188]
 

imo remaps are a "vanity item." I am disappointed that ccp is backing down on the issue. after a few months it isn't all that hard to create a year long plan that focuses on a main attribute and a secondary. I've been remapped per/wp since a few months after remapping came out, I still have over a year of training to do in per/wp.

I was looking forward to plex for remap so I could do a charisma remap at some point, I mean I'd like to do some trade skills and I'd definitely like to do the leadership skills. but I didn't want to commit a full year to it. Evil or Very Mad

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.23 01:01:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Dakisha
Does this mean there are things I won't be able to get without spending more money past my subscription cost? That is to say, clothes, custom paintjobs, etc?

I for one will be walking in stations naked or in the ugliest freebie clothes I can find.

Just purchase some PLEX via ISK and then buy the paintjob?!
Where is the problem..?

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.11.23 01:10:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Dmoney3788
I was looking forward to plex for remap. Thanks a lot, bitter vets.

This. Evil or Very Mad

To all the "my mommy won't give me money to buy internet spaceship stuffs" people:

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Just purchase some PLEX via ISK and then buy the paintjob?!
Where is the problem..?


CCP, giving people an option is not wrong.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.23 01:21:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Azaiya
Reading this I can't help but think that the game of EVE is not doing well. In my experience you only need to diversify revenue streams if you are no longer in a state of growth or if you want to capitalise on growth. As you yourself have ruled out in your own blog that you are not doing this out of greed, but rather because you feel that if you don't you will fall behind the competition, then you must be fearful that your model for this game is no longer working, hence the change. *snip*

Subscribed account numbers have been grown steadily (averaged over a bigger timeframe - summer/early autumn always sees contraction) with 55k more per year - see QEN#3/2010.
With WoD in the pipeline (and us playing lab-rats for it's engine) and Dust to at least bring in it's manufacturing cost, they're on a good path IMHO.

You're coffee cup reading too much into this. I can fully understand CCP's need to stay in touch with the evolution of their business.. and the FOTM for MMO's is - if you like it or not - microtransactions.
You can only have an opinion about something (and that includes especially technology) if you tested it and gained first hand experience with it. If it was wrong or doesn't stand up to it's promises - sack it and get on with your live. CCP now just got it's first 'sack it' event with microtransactions.

At anyone who is leaving over this - can I have your stuffs, please?
Thank you a thousand times!

Electra Mercy
Posted - 2010.11.23 01:50:00 - [192]
 

I have no problem with microtransaction for nontransferrable bling.

I suspect the whole business model topic of microtransactions has more to do with Dust than Eve.

I am sure CCP will put their unique (and slightly twisted Smile) spin on the final implementation.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.23 01:59:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 23/11/2010 02:05:37
Originally by: Yuda Mann
Has CCP done the math to see how many accounts they will lose by PLEX going too high, compared to how many more PLEX they will sell through microtransactions?
I use multiple accounts and pay for them all with plex, but they're almost too high now to make it worth it. If PLEX go up much more I'll be cancelling all but one. I like this game enough to pay for it, but not with real money on more than one account.

If PLEX go higher in isk value and you don't use them any more to fund your additional accounts.. guess what >> CCP doesn't loose any money over that, except active subscribed account numbers.
PLEX will still be bought for RL moniez and CCP will still get the RL moniez.
Probably more than before.
Just the manifestation of RL moniez within the game will be different.. less accounts, less chars, more vanity items.
Nice isk sink too..

I really wonder how some people can't grasp the concept of self-adjusting markets. ugh

Edit: stroke out some little mistake

Vanija
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:00:00 - [194]
 

This is dumb and anyone who worked towards getting this idea repealed is foolish at best.

Where does anyone benefit from removing new options from the game? How does CCP benefit from losing a source of free money?

The people against this don't get "hurt" if it's implemented. Just ignore the feature and move on with your lives. The ones hurt are the people who actually want to inject strategy into this game, like the planning that plex-for-remaps would have required.

Jita Alt666
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:06:00 - [195]
 

Quote:
It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.


This is such flawed logic. Learn the difference between cause and effect and understand the effect of variables.

To follow up on your logic: Eve currently does not sell virtual goods. Eve is dying.

Rime
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:17:00 - [196]
 

I have no problem with the idea of neural remaps for PLEX, especially in an age of supercap proliferation on one hand and pilots of T2 cruisers crusading for nerfing the drake on the other.

Can somebody please explain to me why a game which internalized RMT to the point those with sufficient wealth play the game at the expense of a stranger's money AND internalized character sales allowing any player a character with high skills for ISK (or cash if PLEX is involved) has suddenly crossed the line when offering neural remaps?

Why is paying ISK to hasten a newbie's growth into a specialized area bad, but selling characters for ISK good for anyone other than the player selling the character?

Morar Santee
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:24:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake

However, I am still against the purchase if "vanity" items for PLEX, although this is less of an issue for me.

I don't agree with the "dinosaur" argument presented in the blog. Just because everyone else does something, it doesn't follow that it's the best thing for you to do. After all, at least 75% of other MMOs have elves in them...


Rodj, with all due respect I certainly hold for a pie admiral, stop giving them ideas. The way things are shaping up, we are one idiotic change in business priorities away from this exact scenario. They already have the dev-blog for it ready. Here is an exclusive sneak preview:

Originally by: CCP Zulu

It‘s important to clarify that "PLEX for Elves" isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate Elves at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the Elves they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide Elves to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

Ayla Nori
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:32:00 - [198]
 

plex for remaps... plex for isk for implants... the difference is.. ?

remaps was a good idea.


Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:42:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Freyja Asynjur on 23/11/2010 02:42:20
Originally by: El Liptonez
Originally by: Hachi Ironfist
oh shi- ... I just remapped because of the plex for remap :( can I get this reverted ? :P


Charisma remap crew reporting in.

I will definitely petition. Laughing


+1 NeutralSad
Well, time to care less about sp/hour I guess Very Happy

Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:42:00 - [200]
 

Sorry Zulu, you need to train "Convincing the Herd" another level.

You back away from gamechanging microtransactions for vanity transactions ... and you expect us to beleive CCP isnt just getting us used to the idea of MT before bringing game changers back?

Oh and Dinosaurs were the kings of the Earth, unfourtunatly they started employing Marketing and Public Relations "experts" and lost sight of the real aim of gaming and the people that subscibe to their games (ie they sold out, something CCP is teetering on the edge of). They didnt die out because they refused to impliment microtransactions.

To quote your own tag line HTFU and do what CCP has always been good at, throwing moonies at the Little Kittie online Elf pron gang and producing a quality ADULT game. Forget all this Blizzard inspired crap and get back to your roots.


Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:45:00 - [201]
 

Tbh, I don't have any strong leanings either way how things might have turned out. Anything is fine.

However, I'd just like to leave a note to CCP to be very vigilant at players' pressure (and that includes the CSM too) and how this can be exploited in various ways through social engineering. The good from the experience that players bring will always be tempered by the bad in the form of player self-interest, therefore it is and always will be a double-edged sword.

This is probably becoming cliche, but address the fundamentals instead of the symptoms and you'll be fine.


Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:46:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 23/11/2010 02:47:11
edit post deleted : im not going to talk anymore on second thought.

Kireiina
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:52:00 - [203]
 


Who cares? The game only just manages to justify a sub I can't imagine paying more money for vanity items.

But I guess you've got more sloppy-seconds from WoD development and want to see if you can sell them to Eve players? Go for it. Anyone dumb enough to want to play dress up dolls with their avatar and pay for the privilege deserves to get fleeced.

Maybe at some point in the future you'll even focus on the starship game.

Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
Posted - 2010.11.23 02:54:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 23/11/2010 02:47:11
edit post deleted : im not going to talk anymore on second thought.


Shame that you deleted your post because it unfourtunatly shows the flaws of the "move with the market" thoughtline.

EVE has NEVER been market centric, it has never before followed the elf-farmer herd, but suddenly it needs to.

The logical arguement EVE-MT=No EVE is exactly the situation CCP wants to develop in the subscribers mind, it encourages the subscriber to buy in to the microtransaction system, and hey you can get a cool hat!!

This is pandering to the mindless whordes (yes thats a deliberate spelling work it out) that infest this game, you know those who are so happy aboout being able to DECORATE your own room and have an avatar!!! FFS this is EVE not the Fking SIMS.

CCP is falling further away from its original aim, and is becoming a clone of all the other business models out there .. therefore fufilling its own prophecy of instability.


Khaelis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.23 03:08:00 - [205]
 

I respect that you rolled back plans for remap for PLEX, but please just dont go down the microtransaction road. It just makes the whole game feel tacky, it really does.

If you start putting it in, even for vanity items, why not just make the game free? You know you can survive without doing this. Following the industry is no excuse, as these games are completely different and dont have complete control of a niche like you do.

Please, please rethink your plan.

wizard87
Posted - 2010.11.23 03:35:00 - [206]
 

Interesting blog.

I wonder how much time you are investing as a company in this "cash cow idea" compared to actually improving the game by y'know maybe developing the completed expansion release on time?

I also wonder why given the demographics of Eve that you CCP Zulu always seem to talk to us like we are children? Would love to give you more positive feedback but I find your blogs a bit patronizing.


Sarz'na
Posted - 2010.11.23 03:52:00 - [207]
 

TL:DR the thread, but...

Dont use PLEX for vanity items, please. most notably, if you do, i'll never resub my alts due to being a poor***.

Elgaris Dukor
Caldari
Femti Runa Eru
ParadoXon Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.23 04:48:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Elgaris Dukor on 23/11/2010 04:49:06
Originally by: Ayla Nori
plex for remaps... plex for isk for implants... the difference is.. ?

remaps was a good idea.




You can buy a Titan with plex theoretically. Yet someone had to take the effort to build it. The same with implants. Someone had to take effort to get them. You just trade the effort to get them for some game time.
Buy offering a skill training advantage directly via PLEX nobody had to take any effort to gather anything. Thats the difference.

Elgaris Dukor
Caldari
Femti Runa Eru
ParadoXon Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.23 05:31:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: wizard87

I also wonder why given the demographics of Eve that you CCP Zulu always seem to talk to us like we are children? Would love to give you more positive feedback but I find your blogs a bit patronizing.




Because we are the stupid cash cows for them now. Gone are the times when we were customers. I did cancel my subscriptions some time ago and I am pretty sure now that i will not renew them. I have lost every hope that CCP still cares enough about EVE.
They have chosen to develop a 3D chat clent with my money when the game was in a state that it needed way more resources to fix it. And there are still so many open issues with the game itself and i would expect thats CCP invests a major portion of their resorces int the game itself. Intead they invest those resources into Incarna.
And today we get told that the only purpose of Incarna is to just milk us some more. That is actually totally unaccaptable for me.

I can only hope that more people feel like me, hit the cancel buttion and fill out this little feedback box. Otherwise this once great vision of a scifi simulator becomes a second life lite in space where you can buy some fancy hats.

Nacona
Genbuku.
M. PIRE
Posted - 2010.11.23 05:40:00 - [210]
 

OK .. the blog starts with :

"So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes we‘ve come up with a strategy that we‘ve already polished with the help of the CSM"

^^ note the use of the word "polished"

Then goes on to say "no design work has been done", "not a complete list", "we‘re just talking strategy now","nor is it a commitment", and my favorite "an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about."

In my world "polished" means you have done the planning and you are near completion. In Iceland "polished" seems to be another word for "beta" or am I the only one that reads it that way ? Please go back to the whiteboards and polish it some more before you come to the player base to seek their opinion or update us on a new game change.

And while your at it, please add 'huge purple dildo" and "goldleaf speedo" to the list of vanity items for incarna use. I will take 2 of each please :P





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