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Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:39:00 - [91]
 

I still say if you're looking for a new business model you could divide the Plex into 30 pieces and extend the free trial indefinitely. Bam, instant F2P Eve.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:39:00 - [92]
 

\o/ No Plex for remaps.

/o\ No dinosaurs.

Please CCP, think of the dinosaurs.

Dray
Caldari
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:41:00 - [93]
 

No remaps with plex. Check. Smile

Mocking the Jewish zombie cult. Check. Laughing

Plex for vanity items. F**k off, except for ship logos, I expect to see nothing but Hello Kitty and male genitals logos. Laughing

As one poster has already said, the uniqueness of Eve is what attracts a lot of people this is a step towards the other dross out there and imho, bad.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:41:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
I still say if you're looking for a new business model you could divide the Plex into 30 pieces and extend the free trial indefinitely. Bam, instant F2P Eve.


Your post is bad and you should feel bad go die in a fire (in game) go back to Evony or where ever the hell you came from.

Rustpunk
Minmatar
No-Mercy
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:42:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Rheige Bladewhisper
If we don‘t react to the wishes of the market we will simply become the dinosaurs of the industry. And everyone knows what happens to dinosaurs. God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.

Wow, really? Ragging on Christians while trying to backhandedly admit you were wrong on this? Rolling Eyes


Seriously, please stop giving the rest of us a bad name. He's taking a swipe at dumb people, not all Christians.

Gallion
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:43:00 - [96]
 

Sadly, I agree with both Ideas. Giving the options that has not been mirrored by Other surviving MMO's. But to be completely Honest the Neural Remaps really would kill Eve's uniqueness Id think. New players already get 2 remaps from their creation date, and everyone gets another every 12months anyway.


And MT for Incarna sounds like a good Alteration. Trade plexs for Paint jobs and such for your ship, with isk u can get clothing and the such, for Room Decoratives Id say a mix of, plex trades/isk/Cash for certain Kinds of items.

Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:44:00 - [97]
 

Quote:
There are two things we want to communicate in this blog, in response to all the discussion that's been going on:

First, we've decided to shelve all the changes to neural remaps we had planned. We now have no plans to change things from the way they are currently on Tranquility. No PLEX for remaps, no ISK for remaps, nothing. All code has been reverted, no new code has been written. Nothing will change.


I'll probably be flamed and ostracized for this but whatever...

I think the community just shot itself in the foot with this one. Neural remaps NEEDS some changes but due to a few well-known individuals charging up the atmosphere about something that was not as bad as it sounded, everybody suffers the consequences. Meanwhile, CCP, in its effort to appease a community that they had all but alienated due to their actions (or lack thereof) over the last few years, has done a complete about-face and is now afraid of it's own shadow. They have started taking the voice of those on the forums as the voice of all EVE players, when in reality, those who visit the forums are but a small percentage of the players. I'd be willing to bet that if there had been some way to poll the entire player base of EVE on this subject, the results would have been quite different than what the forum posts indicated.

I'm extremely disappointed in both CCP and the forum community for this decision.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:45:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Black Dranzer
I still say if you're looking for a new business model you could divide the Plex into 30 pieces and extend the free trial indefinitely. Bam, instant F2P Eve.


Your post is bad and you should feel bad go die in a fire (in game) go back to Evony or where ever the hell you came from.


Hey, I don't know about you, but I'd prefer that to having to fork out a plex every time I want a new pair of ****ing shoes.

Besides, have you been paying attention to the industry lately? Everybody's going towards F2P.

CCP Masterplan


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:50:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
OTOH, if (to give an absurd example), the entire of Team Gridlock was re-assigned to create sexy underwear for Incarna, then that would be another thing entirely.

Hmmm.
/me closes down the profiling tools, and picks up a sketch-book... :)

Lirinas
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:51:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Lirinas on 22/11/2010 19:58:01
It's not very often that a dev blog can be both full of Win, and Epic fail at the same time.

The Win part: That PLEX's won't be used for skill remaps

The Epic Fail part: The justification of using PLEX's for vanity items later-on.

First, I've always had a strong distaste of games that require a Subscription AND micro-transactions. I have deliberately quit or avoided many MMO's that do just a thing (City of Heroes & Star Trek Online are two prime examples). Even if the items offered are just vanity items, I still find it objectionable.

Second, even the speculation of using PLEX's for other things has helped to drive-up the prices of them considerably. PLEX's get too expensive and people stop playing because that's simply the only way they can afford to play. My brother recently had to stop playing for a while due to RL funds, and he lacks ISK to be able to afford PLEX's at their current levels.

However... I did have some interesting thoughts on how this could actually work. I'm at work atm, but I'll post my ideas in another thread in the "Features & Ideas" forum later when I have the time.

Feisty Cadavar
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:53:00 - [101]
 

Plex for 'bling' just seems stupid. If the item has no intrinsic value in the game then I'm not interested. If there's no value in it, I say whats the point?

Now on the other hand if I could 'tag' all the ships I produce and use as 'advertising' to the universe well then I might be onboard with something like that. Although the paint job should be semi-permanent through repackaging and should only be painted over by other characters using the same features.

I also wouldn't be opposed to SP for ISK/PLEX on a sliding scale cost depending on players age / current sp / avg wealth over the past 30 days. I would also make sure it's a feature that could only be used to by so many SP per X interval.

just my .02

Ultravisitor D9
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:57:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Ultravisitor D9 on 22/11/2010 19:58:15
You should add in hats you can buy for your character, then you can have stuff like dyes and name tags so you can name and colour your headwear!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.11.22 19:58:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Gallion
And MT for Incarna sounds like a good Alteration. ... with isk u can get clothing and the such, for Room Decoratives Id say a mix of, plex trades/isk/Cash for certain Kinds of items.


Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Setting up room decorations should be a mini-profession in Incarna.

Designing and manufacturing clothes should be a mini-profession in Incarna.

This all should be GAMEPLAY!

Corp logos in general or alliance logos on TCU's shouldn't be items bought by real money (and they aren't right now, the idea behind it is that these things should cost real money though). Putting logos on ships shouldn't cost $$$ either, it should be a free service from CCP covered by the subsciption fee. Selling this sort of service sounds just like a rip-off.


And to the quote about dying MMO's. Why are they dying? Because they don't have microtransactions? Sorry, that is nonsense. They are dying and dead because they are bad and have crappy gameplay. Besides that, how many MMO's are dying despite having microtransactions?

And dinosaurs? CCP is already a dinosaur with the extreme heavy server of the unshareded EVE compared to the lightweight servers of sharded MMO's. Does that mean CCP should follow the trend there too and shard EVE?

You seem to forget that it is the uniqueness that makes EVE so special and successful.

No, I am really unhappy about the way of thinking in the upper levels of CCP. Doesn't bode well for the long-term future Sad

schwar2ss
Caldari
Madhatters Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:00:00 - [104]
 

WTB: print of certain ships of mine on a t-shirt/cup/<whatever>. Will pay in ISK or EUR.
(Not willing to pay these insane shipping costs, though)

BTW: I appreciate your decission. Working in a game company myself that just hopped onto the micro-transaction train, I understand the arguments for RMT, monetarisation-wise. As a player on the other hand, I see the implications and drawbacks of this approach and usually find myself arguing against RMT with the management Rolling Eyes

Again, great to see you guys careing for the players concerns (although the logs didn't show anything :P)

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:01:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Virtuozzo
Falling prey to thoughts of becoming the dinosaurs of the industry is understandable, but irrational. CCP is different, you are far enough from the industry to escape its excess, and close enough to dominate the markets you hold.


I agree with this. Most of the MMOs out there are very traditional and are basically all the same with regards to gameplay. EVE is very different and that's why I play EVE. It's not a traditional MMO--it's a sandbox MMO and pretty much the only one out there. I think most MMOs have low retention rates as people play them for a month or two, get bored, and then play the next one. Their reliance on theme park-style content means most people will get bored after they experience it all. EVE doesn't work that way and I think EVE has a more devoted fanbase because of it. EVE has been steadily growing pretty much since it launched and last I heard had very good player retention compared to other MMOs.

I have no real problem with vanity items being sold for real money, but I also don't think that CCP should do things just because the industry is moving in that direction. The MMO industry as a whole is a quagmire of rehashing the same thing over and over while trying to milk customers for all the money they can. CCP and EVE have always stood apart and that's a good thing.

Elgaris Dukor
Caldari
Femti Runa Eru
ParadoXon Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:01:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Lirinas
Edited by: Lirinas on 22/11/2010 19:58:01
It's not very often that a dev blog can be both full of Win, and Epic fail at the same time.

The Win part: That PLEX's won't be used for skill remaps

The Epic Fail part: The justification of using PLEX's for vanity items later-on.

First, I've always had a strong distaste of games that require a Subscription AND micro-transactions. I have deliberately quit or avoided many MMO's that do just a thing (City of Heroes & Star Trek Online are two prime examples). Even if the items offered are just vanity items, I still find it objectionable.

Second, even the speculation of using PLEX's for other things has helped to drive-up the prices of them considerably. PLEX's get too expensive and people stop playing because that's simply the only way they can afford to play. My brother recently had to stop playing for a while due to RL funds, and he lacks ISK to be able to afford PLEX's at their current levels.

However... I did have some interesting thoughts on how this could actually work. I'm at work atm, but I'll post my ideas in another thread in the "Features & Ideas" forum later when I have the time.


Maybe its because Star Trek Online is so successful? They seem to dominate the MMO market with their subscription fee plus extra cash for vanity items strategy... Rolling Eyes

Hex'Caliber
Gallente
Massively Mob
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:05:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 22/11/2010 20:19:49
It sounds to me reading posts in this thread and elsewhere that the greater majority of those opposed to plex for remaps, were not so worried about extra remaps. Instead, they were worried about plex availability and the fear they may have to find a job and actually pay for subs, instead of playing 12 hours a day and buying plex for isk. I may have considered parting with some rl cash to remap my attribs in response to new content releases, but clothing and vanity items GTFO.

One of the longest standing barriers to new players has been the perception that new players in eve will always be at a disadvantage compared to veteran players. Now, instead of offering an additional revenue stream, tapping into additional accounts, and a means to assuage those fears, we get pretty pink blouses and new haircuts, and all because of a vocal minority who do not pay for subs anyway, way to go. Rolling Eyes

I also have to wonder how many accounts you just lost from those who remapped following the initial announcement, who are now royally ****ed because skill training for the next 12 months is completely borked. I hope you [ccp] have enough ****ing sense to reset remaps, after this about face.


Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:14:00 - [108]
 

dear CCP,

i have been a loyal customer of yours for the last three years. in that time, i have maintained three seperate accounts on an annual basis (not using PLEXs). by my calculations, i've spent over $1,100 on your game in that time. this is much more than i have ever invested into any other game in the past, or present. and i am pleased to continuing supporting this great game.

however, i do not want to be required to pay more RL dollars for any in-game items, vanity or otherwise Evil or Very Mad. i've already spent 20x more on your game than any other, and i'm willing to spend more via subscription fees. please do not implement mirco-transactions. doing so will alienate a large segment of your player base, those that actually pay-to-play.

talk about biting the had that feeds you....

Arganato
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:16:00 - [109]
 

Thank you CCP for listening to the CSM!
simply cant do enough of that.
And thank you CSM for fighting for this.

But really. I would gladly pay my subscription fee instead of this vanity-stuff.
Trust in your players :)

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:18:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.


Magic - Mother****er!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8593871/Magic-Mother.png

Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:22:00 - [111]
 

As long as you make in-game item pricing reasonable I'm fine with it... If I have to pay the cost of a battleship to buy my self a set of wooden furniture and a shirt saying "I love New Eden" - I'm totally thinking you'r going the wrong way and I'm sorry for you.

Just make the prices real... I wouldn't bother paying many millions of isk, or maybe billions to for example have a wormhole instead of a door that would take me right back to my house on earth, but if you want me to pay insane amounts of isk for a pair of shoes, no sir...

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:24:00 - [112]
 

I wish you guys (CCP) spent as much time considering options for delayed local and d-scan upgrades as you do on this plex/rmt/vanity/whatever crap.

Dillon Arklight
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:30:00 - [113]
 

Its obviously in the early stages of design but I see no problem with introducing 'vanity' items as long as they give the buyer no advantage over other less vain players.

Tester128
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:31:00 - [114]
 

well, if remap for plex (or actually lack of it) is the price we have to pay to stop microtransactions encroaching on the gameplay - so be it. on the other hand - remap was a good thing as it doesnt provide any instant advantage.
what about a proper referendum ccp? with the line attached - only this and no more

Korerin Mayul
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:33:00 - [115]
 

yay! ccp striped a cash cow because *we* asked them too... thats supergoodnews

yay! limited microtransactions!

boo 'mmo's dieing due to lack of microtransactions' - me thinks CCP is getting the cause mixed up with the effect, i would certanly like to see some evidence to support that 'steaming mound of marketing' you just spouted.

Otheres have said this over and over againg, CCP is neither wow or a wow clone, stratagies which are common sence for wow (simplify, narcotisize, embiggen) would be suicide for eve. Not becuase you would loose the spirit of the community or some such hippy nonsence, but because you would be manouvering to compeet with a company which makes more money in a year then Iceland (Blizzard).

Innovate dont immitate... thats why im still subscribing.



Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:34:00 - [116]
 

Quote:
There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.


Nice to see you're at least listening to player feedback to some extend. It is sad to see EVE should be turned into a micro-transactions game, even though it is simply for vanity items. Even sadder that this should happen just after I have regained some confidence into CCP and where they are taking EVE. I'm worried though, that you assume your market segment wants micro-transactions. And angry that once again the simple message of "we need more money to pump into other projects" is prettily disguised as a "sorry, we have no choice, the market wants it, evolve or die out". Show us some solid proof/reasoning, because those lines certainly do not convince me EVE/CCP needs micro transactions. How stupid do you think your customers are? I feel insulted plain and simple.

Focus on your primary product please: a good game with good gameplay. Worry about all kinds of nifty marketing tricks to get more money out of your subscribers' pockets later.

So there you have it: that blog made me feel somewhat reassured, but mostly sad, angry and insulted. Laughing

Mabrick
Gallente
Mabrick Mining and Manufacturing
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:35:00 - [117]
 

Remapping via PLEX sounds way too much like "everyone gets to be a Jedi." Anyone remember Star Wars Galaxies? I spent a lot of time in that game building a character that was a triple-master and far richer than the average *******. I did it the hard way, the original way. How would a 4 year veteran of EVE feel if any noob with a bank account could alter his character at a whim or take 6 months off (for ANY reason) and then buy their way up to l33t without any effort? I would feel cheated, stupid or, more likely, both. No, this was a good call CCP and thank you for being big enough to make it.

There is another thought I had while reading all this. Will my Industrialist also get to become an artist? In some "games" participants can buy vanity items from other players. Why can't we do that in EVE? If I want to open my graphics suite and create a commissioned, custom, all body tattoo for Meta Pirate why can't I realize some PLEX for that effort? It would be another means of funding my habit without actually paying for it in cash. You all seem to think CCP will make a CCP only revenue stream out of this. That isn't the nature of EVE IMO. They would be far smarter letting the players do it and then they would take a cut, kind of like an Empire tax. That's a really fuzzy concept and I haven't thought it all the way out but I know there are aspiring artists in EVE that would love a crack at contributing persistent art work to the experience. Why should the devs have all the fun?

Kronossan
Bellum Esca
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:42:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: chatgris
While I still detest any kind of microtransaction (this game is so classy without them, it's one of the reasons I joined and stuck around so long) the fact that you are limiting them to items that do not affect performance in any fashion is tolerable.

Sorry to hear you need to go down this path at all, but thanks for the compromise.

Joshu Sizu
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:44:00 - [119]
 

you guys are going to upset a lot of your player base if you proceed with this. we already pay a subscription fee, why should we pay more just to enjoy all the aspects of the game. the only games i've run across peddling micro-transactions are free-to-play games and those on my iphone.

doing this will make me think twice about spending more money on your game and company if your preparing to go the direction of all the other games i never play.

i guess the next step will be to start charging us for the two annual expansions, using the rationale that all the other companies do it. oh, i know, its all for our own good.

yeah, right....

Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
Posted - 2010.11.22 20:44:00 - [120]
 

Wasn't it the threat of microtransactions that caused T'amber to ragequit? In any case, I'm glad that CCP hasn't given into peer pressure (via some very thorough brow beating from the community) just yet and I'm looking forward to flexing my RP some more come Incarna with many shinies!


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