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Loc-Nar Support Services
Posted - 2010.12.05 00:21:00 - [421]

Edited by: Komalaa on 05/12/2010 00:21:41

Harden the **** up and resist the urge to do crap like this!

Pookie McPook
Posted - 2010.12.05 17:51:00 - [422]

I left EQ2, finally, because of microtransactions. It wasn't so much because of their introduction, it was more because the company line was "we won't be introducing microtransactions" followed shortly by the introduction of microtranactions. Then we had "microtransactions will be fluff items only" followed by the introduction of non-fluff microtransactions. The final straw was "EQ2 will NEVER become free to play" presaging, you've guessed it, EQ2 becoming a game governed by how much you were prepared to pay resulting in how much of the game you had access to.

By and large MMO playerbases tend to accept most things if they are explained beforehand and the public comes to believe that the company is actually listening to them. CCP, on the whole, retains this ethos and accordingly the players generally support them. All I would stress is that if any changes had the effect of altering the basic domographics of the current subscription base that would ultimately mean the death of the game. Such changes would be game affecting items being introduced and available only to those who paid extra. Pure fluff items would be ok but therein lies the problem. One person's fluff item is another's intrinsic game play item. Avatar clothing? OK in my book but possibly a game breaker for others. Ship decals? Again, ok in my book but for those wanting to be able to fly pink Rifter's possibly not.

Posted - 2010.12.09 18:39:00 - [423]

In my experiences, once microtransactions were introduced to p2p MMO's, they died. And it wasn't because the model was bad, it was more, that it split the playerbase into 2 sides, and the ones who disagreed to fluffs left the game. It happened to 3 MMO's which I have been active in, before and while playing EvE and I wouldn't want to be Eve my fourth. IMHO I disagree to microtransactions, because it always changes a game. Or in other words, it changes the community who play it. It's not always a good thing to swim with the swarm, there are so many MMOs out there, and most die in the long run. EvE is a good game, and shouldn't end with the same fate as so many MMO's.

So I am still waiting for Salvage Drones, hoping that old ideas will be still implemented, bugs get fixed, which are around for years (like COSMOS Agents ugh) and that fluffs will never see the game.

Make them buyable for ISK, if you want fluffs ingame, but a game should be one thing - a game in which everyone is equal, unlimited to their monetary RL issues, and in which everyone can be and achieve everything they want to be.


Posted - 2010.12.13 12:01:00 - [424]

One thing I really enjoy about Eve is the lack of Microtransactions.

I feel that once that flood-gate has been opened it can't be closed and it won't lead anywhere good. To say that Microtransactions will only be for one thing and not another is wishful thinking, it will expand and as many have pointed out will CCP be diverting developer time away from improving and expanding something that is already paid for monthly to cater to these vanity items?

Posted - 2010.12.15 00:17:00 - [425]

i enjoy eve and pay for 3 accounts currently. not interested in mt in the slightest, i don't want to pay extra for clothing or a mustache or whatever, as soon as this is introduced i will look for other entertainment.

if you want to make more money then update your prices, only seems fair standard inflation or whatever.

thank you for eve, its good.


Xyla Vulchanus
Sarz'na Khumatari
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:20:00 - [426]

The fact that this kind of garbage is even being discussed is very worrying. Greed is a temptation with all of us but it seems as if CCP want to bring on the demise of their own game. How's this for a novel concept - introduce vanity items purely via in-game - players could make clothes and sell them to each other, it would simply be yet another market of Eve. Why do real money transactions need to take place?

Due to the changes in sov mechanics, 0.0 is not what it was - the game is being dumbed down in many areas, the future ideas of DUST and Incarna are trivial gimmicks, the Sansha incursions are the most boring thing ever to enter Eve - it's all slipping a little.

CCP need to get a grip - fix lag, maybe introduce new ship classes, rework the UI, ban the bots; focus on improving the superb model that you have already created. Micro-transactions will simply attract the sort of player who will not stay in Eve and will move on to the next shiny thing, it will also alienate your current core playerbase. Be warned, you are playing with fire here!

Olive Juice
Posted - 2011.01.25 01:48:00 - [427]

I came across this thread by doing a Google search on 'Eve online buy remap.'

I am a very casual player and as a result I make mistakes. I recently made one by remapping and not doing it very well. I was wondering if I could buy a remap with Isk.

My thought was that allowing players to spend hundreds of millions on neural remaps would be a good Isk sink.

I was a bit disappointed as I read the dev blog post that said buying remaps for isk was considered but then dropped.

With regards to micro-transactions I am in the group that says as long as its vanity - who cares. I'm also in the group that thinks when MT enter as vanity they usually progress to items important for progression.

There is a big difference between selling neural remaps for 500,000,000 isk and selling them for 15 bucks.

Posted - 2011.01.25 03:51:00 - [428]

Originally by: Olive Juice

There is a big difference between selling neural remaps for 500,000,000 isk and selling them for 15 bucks.

Not in Eve, where you can spend $35 buy 2 Plex sell them in the game for 340-390 million isk each then use that isk to buy your remap.

Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.25 05:14:00 - [429]

So the intention basically is to throw away the niche that have kept EvE afloat all these years and self-destruct like most other MMOs?


Its important to clarify that virtual goods sales isnt an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMOs out there that dont incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

A lot of MMOs have tried to go the microtransaction way to keep up with competition and it has basically gotten them nowhere.

There are 2 MMOs that are not dying out, those are EvE and WoW. WoW has implented microtransactions very very cautiously compared to the competitors, but has seen a lot of bad press for taking that route.

There are no lack of shallow games with hidden payment options. There are a lack of games with the focus on game play that EvE has. Try using that niche instead of building upon the failures of others. Games do not fail because of a lack of microtransactions, they fail and collapse when gameplay becomes secondary to shallow vanity items.

In most cases when an MMO decides to go this route, the reason is that it's already dead and investors try to slaughter it for the last pennies that are left. Is this what we see here? Eve becoming too old and is now secondary to Dust and WoD?

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2011.01.25 10:50:00 - [430]

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Games do not fail because of a lack of microtransactions, they fail and collapse when gameplay becomes secondary to shallow vanity items.

But I also don't see why a game should fail because of them when they are vanity items that add flavor but don't provide a real advantage over other players.

I'm sure many players don't care at all about special clothes or sunglasses or tattoos and will never spend a dime on this. And they will be able to compete with everyone else just as before. Others do care about this stuff and they spend money to get it a little extra-profit for CCP. And why not?

Personally I don't see me pimping my outfits every other week. But I may spend some bucks to properly cloth my guys and gals once. Some nice uniforms in particular. I don't think a commander of a fighter-carrier or dreadnought should stand on deck with tennis shoes and a muscle-shirt Laughing

(Suggestion: Offer clothes that have a badge or something with the corporation logo of the char who wears it. Should be easily doable technically and would be really awesome. That way every corp could have their semi-individual uniform if they so choose.)

Anti Pod
Posted - 2011.01.25 11:30:00 - [431]

Is the next problem. My character, though created in early 2008, though he did not teach the skills all the time. He now has 13 million. SP and I would really like to fill this gap. In principle, I have normally learned skills, but there are a bunch of nasty skills from 1 to 6 rank (mostly rank 1 and 2). I would like, so if the CCP is planning to introduce the sale of game items or services for real money, suggest that you can buy SP directly from the CCP for money or for PLEX in the game.
I think at that now, the speed of learning at all quite equal, we can provide an opportunity once a year to buy up to 10 million SP for one character on your account. And spend the SP can be had only at the 1-6 rank skills. Between such purchases would be at least six months (it has not turned a situation where a person creates a character on December 31, buys 10 million. SP, and then, Jan. 1 to buy another 10 million. SP). It will not unbalance the game because people will not be able to teach the fighter bombers or supercarrier or Titan. Only the skills for character development. And let 10 million. SP cost, say, 6 PLEX (or the corresponding amount of money).

Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.25 11:38:00 - [432]

Originally by: Floydd Heywood

But I also don't see why a game should fail because of them when they are vanity items that add flavor but don't provide a real advantage over other players.

That is a good point, and I think if done right it can work. I personally just never have seen it done right.

I have seen some people using the slippery slope argument in this thread, and indeed thats an example of some of the worst implementations gone wrong. It start out as completely optional vanity items. Then slowly the items gained from the game looks like crap in comparison, and the vanity items get less optional, then real game advantages slowly kick in. I think for some game designers micro transactions can serve as an easy way out of real issues that are harder to solve.

There's some other issues too. Vanity items have very little intrinsic value in most cases. One of the few ways to give them value is to earn them by in-game merits. Vanity items sold for cash will almost always end up reducing the perceived value of items earned by game mechanics. I think I'd rather like to see a fancy side-arm as a drop from a Sansha general, than having spent 5$ for it in a game shop. That game value is almost impossible to achieve if the market is flooded with similar cash items.

And finally in every example I have seen, it ends up really cheesy and distasteful.
I fear seeing a sign like this on the side of a station:
"Buy a new tie, only 5 bucks and get a free raven towel".
It breaks immersion big time.

Thats not to say it can not be done tasteful, of course it can. I have just never seen that happen.

Ranka Mei
Posted - 2011.01.25 15:58:00 - [433]

I am one of a select few, it seems, who doesn't mind seeing microtransactions for remaps.

The EVE training systems works fine, but doesn't scale well, in terms of available time. The first wave of 7-year-old characters had it easiest, in that respect, in that they had ample time. The next wave of 7-year-old characters may or may not even reach that mark. And the third one... well, my point is clear: as the years go on, it's going to be progresssively more unlikely that you will have a sheer endless amount of training time ahead of you, to get to a level others arrived before you.

So, would it kill anyone if training could be speeded up just a fraction, by allowing me to buy an extra remap to, say, train Will + Perc at 2700, instead of 2520? Especially since the 'PLEX for remap' boon would benefit everyone equally.

Naturally, to prevent abuse, or overuse, a limit could be set to not allow a total of more than 2, or max 3, remaps a year (2 would probably suffice for most dedicated plans). The notion, however, that EVE would horribly break if 'PLEX for remap' became a reality, is not something I can logically subscribe to.

Posted - 2011.01.25 17:33:00 - [434]

What are you guys talking about?? You can buy plex now from your account management - trade it for ISK in game and buy whatever you want.

What is the big deal if you could then trade plex for clothes and accessories, how would this ruin the game, some real crazy talk here!!

Posted - 2011.01.26 00:38:00 - [435]

It is not a proper microtransaction as one can easily buy PLEX with ISK. So me, a filthy rich salvager, can then hoard vanity items like a barbie doll on meth, without spending any RL dollars at all.

That beeing said, I would prefer a system where such vanity items were manufactured/operated and bought/sold by players for players, as it would expand the markets of New Eden and also provide some content for Incarna. 'Virtual goods sale' may even be integrated into such a model by making a form of PLEX required to trade in (some of) these items.

Michael McNeil
Posted - 2011.01.26 04:47:00 - [436]

After reading the dev blog I would like to state this.

Unlike many other games that need vanity items to keep the game going, because they ran out of ideas and their games at the heart are limited due to story line. Eve holds strong not because short of there being empire wars, there is no story line that the players do not create themselves.

WOW (world of warcraft) requires Blizzards all mighty hand in direct interaction to create new plots, to create reason to return other then 6-7 different battle fields that play out in the end based upon only who holds more people.

In Eve, you can be out numbered 3 to 1 and still win because of surpriser tactics, fire power or other, you have with the exception of a few things, every facet of reality in the game. From populations that build empires to logistics that fuel said empires, you have Research and design that doesn't end just because you have reached level 85 and engineering 999,9999.

In eve things as mundane as mining are fun because you get to play cat and mouse with other players... and if you so choose to make your mining ship weak enough, NPC's. While mining (gathering) in eve we can manage our stock options (both in game and out of now, In game browser for the win) we can operate our planets, what we have on sale, ect... You can be as powerful in empire as you are in any alliance, you can even operate a business where by you raid supplies of hostiles and sell those goods on the market.

As far as I can tell, no other game currently available offers anything close to this, and it is because of these strengths that Eve is strong, because Even thow we may cry about how hard it is to get in game money... we can not generate without actually playing a long time.

I haven't play many MMO's, I have beta tested 2, Earth and beyond for EA and Perpetuum for Avatar Creations I have played WOW, I have played X3 I have even played Freelancer, but none of these games have what Eve has and that is a player community that can mold the game, exchange space, put their very self into the fight for that space.

This ability to control your own territory, to build an empire and to conquer regions is what has made Eve on breakable by any other game. Will Eve ever have a million players playing at any one time?

No, I really do not think so, the game is too hard for most people and if you were to make the game easier, you would kill the game as that which makes this game the best out there is that it is hard.

vanity Items are what failed games need to keep going, games that have to try to keep going, For Blizzard they try to sell their games by offering vanity items like a pet, or a special sword or hair cut. Because they know that no company can keep up with the players if their game is go here kill this and report back for a little gold.

In Eve, we have this, but we have so much more, if it is CCPs decision to walk down the path of vanity, it is your right to do so, but do so walking carefully of where you step; for vanity may bring riches today... but it brings ruin tomorrow.

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