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carebear one
Posted - 2010.11.24 11:57:00 - [331]
 

Edited by: carebear one on 24/11/2010 12:00:12
Originally by: Floydd Heywood
The feature had nothing to do with real money. I pay for my accounts with real money, but I had no intention to buy PLEX for real money to do the additional remaps.

I can earn the ISK for a PLEX doing C3 wormhole sites solo in less than three hours (using/risking ships that cost <250m ISK combined). No need for real money or even a lot of time (yes, I have a job). Only because you don't know how to make ISK quick don't assume everyone is equally incompetent...


well yes this comment shows at least your incompetency of seeing -> reading -> understanding

and also ... there is a need to undock to make the ISK for a PLEX? Hm, seems there is someone who has to learn alot about economics and EVE-economics

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.24 12:50:00 - [332]
 

Thx CCP for listening to the CSM on this issue. I have been playing now for four years, this is the only MMO that I do play or would consider playing, mostly because it is a Space Science fiction game but also the payment system without having to buy a new addon with every expansion!

IMO, Microtransactions for items that can effect game play would have been the end for me, I could not justify trying to keep up in a game for a virtual item! My playtime is limited and I would have taken it as a slap in the face for the last four years of work I have put into this game.

Keep being different and not kowtowing to the "Industry Standard" and you will find that people stick with you!

ceaon
Posted - 2010.11.24 12:58:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Malcanis


EVE already has a free to play option.

that is bull**** go and play world of tanks and tell me if you need to farm ingame money to pay your subscription

Vihura
Posted - 2010.11.24 14:04:00 - [334]
 

People who complain abaut microtransaction for vanila items are loosers with no job plaing game 24/7 with 10 alts with too big e-peen and yes you can play becouse CCP introduce plex, and you know then if CCP introduce plex for vanila you will have to find job, or play on 5 alts vs 10 alts.

Vihura
Posted - 2010.11.24 14:14:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Malcanis


EVE already has a free to play option.

that is bull**** go and play world of tanks and tell me if you need to farm ingame money to pay your subscription

Example of loser... with too big e-peen.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.24 14:55:00 - [336]
 

Edited by: Joss56 on 24/11/2010 15:29:42
Originally by: Narkhana
You forgot reason #3: The rich in-game people get to keep their unfair advantage of playing the game without spending RL money for it.

There is a large number of people complaining because they currently pay for their 3+ accounts with isk, and if the price of PLEX goes up they might not be able to continue to subscribe. They call themselves subscribers but they're not, they are players who use their in-game riches to milk CCP for a free game. They don't actually contribute any money to CCP's business model yet they're the first to complain that CCP isn't devoting enough of it's resources (that they aren't helping to pay for) to fixing the bugs (that they're not helping to pay for.)

PLEX for Remap is a good idea, and it would provide additional income to CCP to pay for more programmer assets (even if they do work on other games.) If I payed for my game time in ISK I would want to keep the game the way it is, but I would also be a hypocrite by claiming it's only because I don't want to ruin the amazing gameplay... mine.


This.

Those player not only SCAM with pleasure CCP bank but get here and tell you that you are wrong. Of course they will use any argue they can to preserve they're IG advantage, what else can they do with those billions?

Now the same ones, dont have a single idea how a company works, how mutch it costs the salary of those who work for real in this game and how game industry is worst than pvp and if you want to survive, you just have to get costumers by millions, not a few thousands playing three acounts payed with plexes.

The bigest mistake that CCP can do at this right moment, is to listen once more and continue to keep this game in one direction.

Take a look at game industry, you'll see that the sandbox and the butterfly effect is certainly the most important inovation in mmo's that all players excpected and so could be a real cash cow, but it isn't after 7 years, wy?

Just read this forum.

-poor pve content, realy poor and always donne to force you to pvp - the idea wasn't that the players can choose?-they dont, pvp'er chose for them.

-Hig sec is just a cow for plex buyers that can exploit and use concord tu blow "newbs" ( /clap to this one )and a lot like this one

-pvp ennoying-> they must come on high sec blow mission runners to have some fun -force them to counter blobbers, force them to pvp because this is what they want

-corps system and organisation with no tiers control -by taxing corporations wallet on they're richeness/nbr of players you'll see moore ships ready to be destroyed than wallets full with trillions of isk sleeping or invested in plexes for acounts that dont pay with real money since a long time.

And a lot of juicy things like leaving players the choice and the power of decision is good, when your community is mature responsable and acts like, but when it isn't you must do something that will have a real impact in your game and will increase the nbr of players.

But you can also keep saying yourself that it is fine like this and keep 350K accounts (50%+ payed with plex mabe) for a few years more.
ugh

Rifean Nethulifus
Posted - 2010.11.24 15:00:00 - [337]
 

Edited by: Rifean Nethulifus on 24/11/2010 15:02:22
I would like to remind CCP of the ending words in the old storyline trailer.

"On the strength of your wings the fate of empires and the hopes of worlds will be decided. Take control, of the destiny that is rightfully yours."

CCP, you are the greatest company ever. I have followed EvE since the beginning and i haven't missed a devblog for years, i have always loved your unique style in everything you do and hoped other companies would follow your tracks instead of it being the other way around.
You stand out from every single other company out there, your open spirit and dedication to your playerbase is nowhere else to be found and you have showed the way for the worlds greatest game.

However, just because "a lot of other companies" also use the business model of selling in-game items for real money doesn't mean you have to do it.
In my opinion it always seems like the companiens that choose this model are low quality scoundrels who never care about their playerbase.
The only game that has this system working in my opinion, is Project Entropia, but in PE everything is based around real money!

Be strong CCP, stick to your awesomeness and you will fulfill your destiny as the greatest game company ever.

The fate of EvE will be decided on the strength of your wings, dare to be bold!

Narkhana
Gallente
Infinium Trading Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.24 15:03:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

You're serious there, are you? These players create a demand for PLEXes. If there were no such players, PLEXes would be useless. Whether they themselves pay for their subscription or someone else trades ISK with these players for a month of game-time, is absolutely no difference at all. These PLEXing players create the same income to CCP as they would, if they'd pay the subscription themselves.


Player demand dictates the in-game value of PLEX. If CCP removed the ability for players to buy PLEX with ISK and they set a specific ISK value to PLEX for those who buy it for real money then it would be additional income to CCP. CCP would lose subscribers who weren't paying for their subscriptions (maybe not all, but probably a large number) meanwhile those people who spend RL money on PLEX will most likely continue to spend the money. They aren't spending their money to get PLEX into the game so others who have large sums of ISK can buy gametime, they buy the PLEX to get ISK because they're not rich.

Originally by: carebear one

But changing the progress in game by the size of your RL-Moneypocket was the worst idea you guys ever had (okay there are some more worst ideas but silence about that). I understand there is a big need for people who defining themselv about the size of there account to show off but this can be managed ingame with things that not inflict the gameplay itself.



Who are the show-offs, the ones who brag about paying for their 3+ accounts with ISK and never paying CCP any money? Or are you refering to those people who actually give money to CCP, yet probably won't admit they spend RL money on PLEX otherwise they won't be cool? The show-offs I've seen on these forums are not the RL money showoffs, they're people like this:

Originally by: Floydd Heywood

I can earn the ISK for a PLEX doing C3 wormhole sites solo in less than three hours (using/risking ships that cost <250m ISK combined).


If someone has enough ISK that they can buy a full set of 200,000,000mil ISK implants then that person has a training advantage over someone who cannot afford those implants. If that person pays for gametime with ISK they then have two advantages of other non-rich players; they don't spend RL money and they can train faster. They only want to keep their advantages and not allow anyone else to have those advantages; whether it comes from RL money or in-game ISK. A remap doesn't give extra skillpoints, it only allows specific skills to be trained at a faster rate. The same thing is done with implants, so why should that person who can afford the super-duper implants gain such an advantage over someone who can only afford to buy a standard implant? Oh wait, everyone can afford to buy the badass implants because they can buy ISK using PLEX, then buy those implants with that ISK. So the arguments against PLEX for Remap is mute as it pertains to giving someone an unfair advantage over other players who don't want to spend RL money, it's already happening.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:08:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
EVE already has a free to play option.

I understand your argument, however, it’s wrong; EVE is not F2P. The problem with your argument is the lack of value you associate with the most valuable commodity in the universe: time. This commodity is the basis for the EVE economy and all of the economies in RL for that matter. Your argument is often used by the “my minerals are free because I mined them” crowd, but this has been disproven numerous times over the years in the MD forum.

Those that use PLEX to pay their subs are investing their time into the game. In EVE, in order to earn lots of isk, you have to be willing to spend lots of time in game. Yes there are professions that allow more isk generation for less time, but those also require lots of skill, which again is a measure of time. Those that buy PLEXs are substituting RL$ for time. The only reason we have robust markets for T1, T2 and T3 are because some people invest a crap-ton of time in-game. Why should they not reap the benefits of their investmen? Imho, the PLEX system is genius, I just wish they would leave it at that. It encourages those with lots of spare time to help develop a game that we can all enjoy. In the end, all the isk, ships, game-time and anything else with value in-game comes at a cost, your time. It is not free.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:37:00 - [340]
 

Edited by: Joss56 on 24/11/2010 16:48:12
Originally by: Iosue
...however, it’s wrong; EVE is not F2P


Realy? But it looks like...

Quote:
Those that use PLEX to pay their subs are investing their time into the game.


As eve developers but do you realy think they're payed in iskies or plex?
you can also invest youre time in something usefull as find a job to get real money to pay your subscription so that CCP can pay more dev's for better features.

Quote:
In EVE, in order to earn lots of isk, you have to be willing to spend lots of time in game.


You dont, and nobody asks you to do it so.

Quote:
Yes there are professions that allow more isk generation for less time, but those also require lots of skill, which again is a measure of time.


False, no matter if you play eve 24/day/7days or 5 min per week to fill youre skills queue.

Quote:
Those that buy PLEXs are substituting RL$ for time.


They use real cash to buy time game and then change it in plex to have isk.

Quote:
The only reason we have robust markets for T1, T2 and T3 are because some people invest a crap-ton of time in-game. Why should they not reap the benefits of their investmen?


They do, they're the only kind of players sitting on billions of isk, ok use them to attract new players.

Quote:
Imho, the PLEX system is genius, I just wish they would leave it at that. It encourages those with lots of spare time to help develop a game that we can all enjoy.


False, if they dont spent they're time on Eve they will do it in annother game where they can have everything for nothing.

They dont help dev's, they exploit game ressorces to play free, sell isk for real money or even ships for real money and so profit from those who pay and realy help dev's with they're REAL MONEY.

Quote:
In the end, all the isk, ships, game-time and anything else with value in-game comes at a cost, your time. It is not free.


Again, if you want salary find a real job.

If you want to be payed with real money for spending your time playing, then apply to join CCP


There is no available reason that some pay with real money to play eve and others don't.
You should pay your acount every month with real money and not with plex that you can buy ig with isk that you easy win in a few minutes or hours because you have nothing else to do of your time.
Twisted Evil


Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:12:00 - [341]
 

Originally by: Joss56

This.

Those player not only SCAM with pleasure CCP bank but get here and tell you that you are wrong. Of course they will use any argue they can to preserve they're IG advantage, what else can they do with those billions?

Oh thats a good one. You know that people who pay for their subscription with isk buy their plex from someone else? I mean, every active subscriber either directly or indirectly (via someone else's $ for plex) pays CCP to play.

Quote:

Now the same ones, dont have a single idea how a company works, how mutch it costs the salary of those who work for real in this game and how game industry is worst than pvp and if you want to survive, you just have to get costumers by millions, not a few thousands playing three acounts payed with plexes.

You know that plex for remap would have generated CCP more $$$? From a buisness standpoint this was a really dumb decision.

Quote:

The bigest mistake that CCP can do at this right moment, is to listen once more and continue to keep this game in one direction.


I missed the part where there's a downside to plex for remap, just a bunch of whiny people going down a slippery slope.


Quote:

Take a look at game industry, you'll see that the sandbox and the butterfly effect is certainly the most important inovation in mmo's that all players excpected and so could be a real cash cow, but it isn't after 7 years, wy?


Plex for remap doesn't negate the rest of the game fyi. Oh and there's no difference between a customer and a cash cow, only the illusion that you're a customer.

Quote:

Just read this forum.

-poor pve content, realy poor and always donne to force you to pvp - the idea wasn't that the players can choose?-they dont, pvp'er chose for them.

-Hig sec is just a cow for plex buyers that can exploit and use concord tu blow "newbs" ( /clap to this one )and a lot like this one

-pvp ennoying-> they must come on high sec blow mission runners to have some fun -force them to counter blobbers, force them to pvp because this is what they want

-corps system and organisation with no tiers control -by taxing corporations wallet on they're richeness/nbr of players you'll see moore ships ready to be destroyed than wallets full with trillions of isk sleeping or invested in plexes for acounts that dont pay with real money since a long time.



I get it now, you're some poor soul who mines in hisec and is upset because your sad profession can't make you enough money to buy a plex every month. On top of that you missed the whole idea of eve being a cold, unforgiving universe (WAAA I GOT GANKED IN HISEC). YARRRR!!

Quote:

But you can also keep saying yourself that it is fine like this and keep 350K accounts (50%+ payed with plex mabe) for a few years more.
ugh


Pulled that statistic out of your ass, and even if 50% of the players do pay for their game with isk for plex, that means 50% buy the plex that funds the other half to pay for the game with isk.


Originally by: Dmoney3788


-PLEX for remap doesn't make you better than other players. As long as implants and learning skills are the same your max SP/hr is no faster than any other players. I think too many people likens PLEX for remap with PLEX for SP. I do agree that plex for SP would be really, really bad. However, its PLEX for remap and not SP.

-I'd be willing to bet the people who did say they would quit are probably too addicted to actually follow through with quitting. There's probably a small number of people who quit after every major patch when "their" OP play style was ruined (speed nerf, myrm nerf, NOS nerf, etc.). I doubt the amount of people actually quitting from PLEX for remap would be much different than the aforementioned nerfs.

That being said, I welcome any sort of substantial argument against PLEX for remap. Hint: whining about CCP's profit margins isn't one of those.

Quintus Mordian
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:21:00 - [342]
 

Edited by: Quintus Mordian on 24/11/2010 17:31:37
Originally by: gargars
Welcome to your first forum post... if you get flamed don't take it personally - some people seem to be rude simply because they can and it makes them feel better or bigger or something.

Anyway in answer to your questions, no one - including CCP - knows how the proposed micro transactions for vanity items is going to work yet. It's new (and unwelcome imo) territory for Eve.

One thing I think is for sure tho, if they do micro/vanity items, it can't always be 'each item for 1 plex'... I mean a month's worth of gameplay is not the same value as a logo on your ships or a character t-shirt etc.

Am guessing if they HAVE to proceed (please don't) it will be something like 'a plex = 300 vanity points' then each item costs so many points from your 'plex bank' or whatnot.

I am assuming that if they have some vanity item to sell, it won't be available for isk. They won't make the extra profit they seem to be after.

Time will tell. I am hoping they don't do it. The reasons given for doing it were condescending and false.




Thank you :)

I think if it were a PLEX type deal, maybe you could get a plex then break it down into, as you say 'vanity points' that would be barely tolerable, because then at least you can buy the plex in-game, with isk. But to be quite clear, why could I not simply go to the clothing store on the station and buy my t-shirt with isk, or get my haircut or whatever.

I am entirely against the idea.

And for those people saying how subscription games do not have micro-transactions, you are unfortunately in error; World of Warcraft, the largest subscription based MMO, has Micro transactions, if you consider $25 for a mount to be Micro, there is also a monthly sub for the iPhone App... but those are other issues. Star Trek Online, by Cryptic also has a monthly sub and a 'not so micro'-transaction store.

Micro/Macro-transactions in subscription based mmo's are wrong, morally so imo. And should be opposed by everyone.

Edit: Clarification.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:22:00 - [343]
 

God, some of you are so dense I can't tell if you're trolling, CCP alts, or are actually dumb enough to believe the crap you're spewing.

First, to those who say 'but you can already buy a character with $, why not buy SP with $?'

The issue is scarcity. That's what makes something valuable. If someone transfers their 100M SP toon to somebody else, they haven't made my 100M SP toon (if I had one) less valuable. If CCP starts allowing someone (or dozens of someones) to start creating 100M SP toons out of thin air, then CCP is, in effect, spitting in the faces of their most loyal customers. (Actually this would be nothing new for CCP, think of a slightly more degrading activity perhaps.)

CCP has a goose. That goose is called EVE. It lays golden eggs. Don't kill the goose, CCP. If you want to squeeze more money out of your playerbase, here's a radical idea: EARN IT. Commit to EXCELLENCE. Bring EVE out of beta. Then say 'We delivered, now we're going to charge a little more.'

Who goes out of their way to destroy the greatest thing they've ever done in their miserable lives? Keep EVE great, make it BETTER. Follow the herd in your OTHER games. If you set the example with EVE by staying true to the original, revolutionary, concept and demonstrate once again that you are a company that has integrity, you will repair your reputation, will have more subscribers for ALL your games, and when you're old and on your deathbed you'll be able to feel like you did at least one worthwhile thing while you were here on earth. Or you can just try to squeeze every last miserable buck out of your players and you will reap what you have sown.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:26:00 - [344]
 

Wow, somebody just learned how to quote; all that cut and paste with no substance.Rolling Eyes
Originally by: Joss56
As eve developers but do you realy think they're payed in iskies or plex?
you can also invest youre time in something usefull as find a job to get real money to pay your subscription so that CCP can pay more dev's for better features.

Not really sure what your point is here. I’m not advocating that players using PLEX are the same as devs. Devs create an infrastructure (or sandbox, if you will) for us players to game in. All of the markets and depth in this game exist because of the players. The devs do not create ships or mine or participate in any of the interactions in-game. That’s the point of a sandbox, the players create the interactions. This game would feel pretty empty if there weren’t lots of retired/unemployed people spending lots of their time doing stuff in-game. A sand-box can only exist with a dedicated player base.

Since most of your points are incoherent at best, I’m not gonna bother responding to them individually. You’re obviously not a native English speaker and are having trouble conveying your point, but I think I understand what you’re trying to say:

"People that use PLEX for game-time are dead-beat looser that get something for free and need to get a real job sinstead."

By your logic, I suppose your minerals are free too. “CCP should ban miners because they get a bunch of free stuffs for nothing.”

Okay, nothing to see here. Keep moving…

Cirenty
Posted - 2010.11.24 18:35:00 - [345]
 

I don't know why there is so much hate for micro-transactions... Business's need money and everyone here should know this becuase you all hopefully have a real job/career and understand that money makes all this stuff that were enjoying right now happen. The fact that CCP implemented PLEX for players to use in-game/fake currency to pay for the time on there servers still amazes me... That was like the biggest act of charity to any gamer lol. "Here play this game and if your good enough you can use the games curency to keep playing, we don't need your money" Holy crap man lol thats awesome. So I'm hoping a lot of you realize that, that act of charity is going to take a punch to CCP's profits... Them wanting to implement Micro-Transactions makes perfect sense to me. More money = more Employee'swhich = more Development which = Better cooler Stuff...
Although I don't agree with the idea of were all the transactions will be put into, but I'll be perfectly happy with Micro-transactions that don't benefit the player but give us fancy accessories that, even though we really don't need, would be cool to have and mess with. So let them have fun with Micro-transactions like I noted before (directing this at CCP) Don't turn the game into a Cash Bash and make us compete with each other using RL Money. Simple as that and to all you Players, You have a choice lol think of this like drugs (HAHA) you can just say no and have everything you had before.

To this second topic of ISK and how people earn it and spend it for PLEX and all this other crap... Well you guys will hate me for this but... There needs to be some Tax or some more regulation/monitoring of ISK flow through the game. Especially in HS i mean 0.0 is one thing but for all the indy guys (all you strip miners -__-) its one thing to pound ore for production and sales but its RIDICULOUS in high sec... In my opinion there needs to be Taxes (bout to get shot now) or something to restrict the abuse of the HS markets and security. NS psh that whatever goes out there sp don;t worry bout that mess.

My point is getting sloppy now soo let me refocus this here....

High sec you have a HUGE GAP problem newbies and High Experienced Indy pilots which messes a buncha crap up for both ends... Null and LS is were the mid skilled ppl go on average. So your left with a big gap of high class and low clas pilots in high sec SO Before CCP goes all crazy with ISK/PLEX relations I need to see some refinement in ISK management. As far as I can tell EVE's favorite Economic situation is Inflation and nothing is there from NPC nations/factions/corps to balance this out. I've read it in this forum multiply times that people are worried about the Rich getting more and more benefits while the new guys lack the income/funds to get the benefits to... No matter how many accounts a new player gets cuz they think it will make them money. The Player is new, Rome wasn;t built in a day new guys aren;t ganna get the cool stuff that exp players get; but you can help the balance. You can only teach new players so much before they have to learn on there own, and Buffing them to pump skills out is going to help there wallets grow to so the promblem is now in the economy and ISK and thus needs to be revaluated before CCP starts getting real currency involved with the value of ISK.

So yeah thats my 2 cents lol

Kurnku
Posted - 2010.11.24 18:43:00 - [346]
 

Edited by: Kurnku on 24/11/2010 19:26:28

Lets just verify a few things....

1) People new or old to the game can 'buy' titan pilots from the character bazaar forum with real life money.

2) Established players in the game can 'buy' titan pilots with their isk making in game.

3) Someone who is neither privileged enough to have lots of RL money, or in game isk, is not allowed to enhance their progression through hard work. The people who would find this most useful are the people who are new to the game, and who want to change direction as they discover new aspects to the game. They cannot do this as efficiently now.

Let me give you an example.

A 6 month old indy player, who inadvertently used one of his remaps through ignorance, then the other to correct this, decides one day after finding out about plexes 0.0 titans that he wants to be a combat pilot.

With plex for remaps his options would be.

a) Work hard for a few weeks to earn enough isk to purchase a plex to remap to to take his much loved toon down a new career path.
b) Go down the new career path with out plexing, with the knowledge that he is falling further and further behind new other combat pilots.
c) Work hard for a several months, abandoning his beloved character he has been with since the start of eve, and purchasing a combat pilot.

Now which do you really honestly think would give that player the most satisfaction???

Because you have just removed a) from his option!

Nice one CSM's, I am sure your argument made perfect sense!

While money for isk exists, and isk for characters exists, how the hell can you possibly make a case against plex for remaps, or any kind of micro transactions for that matter??

Idiots.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:05:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Cirenty
The fact that CCP implemented PLEX for players to use in-game/fake currency to pay for the time on there servers still amazes me... That was like the biggest act of charity to any gamer lol. "Here play this game and if your good enough you can use the games curency to keep playing, we don't need your money" Holy crap man lol thats awesome. So I'm hoping a lot of you realize that, that act of charity is going to take a punch to CCP's profits...

You misunderstand how this works, as there is no charity involved here. In fact, PLEXs for game time are a very profitable item for CCP.

In order for the scenario you describe above to be true, CCP would need to implement PLEX as an item you purchase from an NPC with isk alone, which is not the case. In reality, someone has to pay for the PLEX with RL money at the EVE online store. Only then can they either sell it or use it. Again, the only way PLEX gets in game is for someone to pay for it with RL money. The PLEX market allows players to barter the PLEX for isk.
Originally by: Cirenty
High sec you have a HUGE GAP problem newbies and High Experienced Indy pilots which messes a buncha crap up for both ends... Null and LS is were the mid skilled ppl go on average. So your left with a big gap of high class and low clas pilots in high sec ….

This is not the case. You should read the latest QEN for details on distribution of pilots by SP. Nullsec has the greatest number of high SP pilots. Those you are referring to in Hisec don’t really need a lot of SP. Flying a Hulk or manufacturing T1 items don’t require high amounts of SP. Flying Capitals and Super Capitals require a ton of SP, however. I think most of the competition you are seeing in Hisec are from relatively low to mid skilled pilots that use multiple accounts to increase their overall volume. Low profit margin + high volume = profit.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:19:00 - [348]
 

Misconception #2:

CCP must break EVE in order to save EVE.

I hear people saying that CCP needs to make lots of money or else EVE is doomed. If CCP follows the herd and makes EVE as lame as all the other MMO (I used to play LOTRO but I quit when they went FTP) then EVE isn't worth saving.

CCP, here's a pro-tip. You have a cash cow.

Milk the cow. Do not **** the cow.

Make Incursion about something OTHER than CCP making an incursion into the wallets of its players.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:20:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Dmoney3788
Plex for remap doesn't negate the rest of the game fyi. Oh and there's no difference between a customer and a cash cow, only the illusion that you're a customer.


Right, mabe we say samething with different words.
I'm ok for plex remap but that it can't be sold or given to another account.

Quote:
I get it now, you're some poor soul who mines in hisec and is upset because your sad profession can't make you enough money to buy a plex every month.


No you dont get it, this 4.5months character is not mining i hate that but making 1B isk ig with this char is easy, can even awford to play lotteries and spent 1B in one week with no regret. So buy plex IG for me is far from being some problem folk.

Quote:
On top of that you missed the whole idea of eve being a cold, unforgiving universe (WAAA I GOT GANKED IN HISEC). YARRRR!!


I'm ok with that, it's the game. You win you loose and you can even take revenge, that's the funny part of it, can you assure me that i'm not in your alliance with an alt or my main char? - who knows?Wink (and who cares any way)


Pulled that statistic out of your ass


It's so dark inside, there's a dev blog where you can see those numbers and even see that the nbr of subsciptions/accounts closing is negative. you'll easly find it.

Originally by: Dmoney3788
-PLEX for remap doesn't make you better than other players. As long as implants and learning skills are the same your max SP/hr is no faster than any other players. I think too many people likens PLEX for remap with PLEX for SP. I do agree that plex for SP would be really, really bad. However, its PLEX for remap and not SP.


Again i'm ok with, i see no problem about remap with plex but the way somme players want it, for free. Has i said, making isk in this game is the easyest thing to do and mining is the worst way to get it.

This plex should be available/useful only for the acount who buys it, not for isk makers already sitting on billions.

Quote:
That being said, I welcome any sort of substantial argument against PLEX for remap. Hint: whining about CCP's profit margins isn't one of those.


Thanks, this is very right.
Laughing



Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:24:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Kurnku
3) Someone who is neither privileged enough to have lots of RL money, or in game isk, is not allowed to enhance their progression through hard work.

So you’re saying that the only way to “enhance progression” is thru having lots of RL money or in game isk? That’s patently false. I’ve made billions of isk over the years without buying PLEXs and relying on RL money.
Originally by: Kurnku
While money for isk exists, and isk for characters exists, how the hell can you possibly make a case against plex for remaps, or any kind of micro transactions for that matter??

Because I don’t want to pay more for access to the same thing I already have: all in-game content. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp??

Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:25:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Kurnku
Idiots.


Neat! It's like I'm watching US politics in sci-fi version! Very Happy

Kurnku
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:30:00 - [352]
 

Edited by: Kurnku on 24/11/2010 19:35:43

Originally by: Iosue

So you’re saying that the only way to “enhance progression” is thru having lots of RL money or in game isk? That’s patently false. I’ve made billions of isk over the years without buying PLEXs and relying on RL money.

Because I don’t want to pay more for access to the same thing I already have: all in-game content. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp??



I update my original post, with this part below

Let me give you an example.

A 6 month old indy player, who inadvertently used one of his remaps through ignorance, then the other to correct this, decides one day after finding out about plexes 0.0 titans that he wants to be a combat pilot.

With plex for remaps his options would be.

a) Work hard for a few weeks to earn enough isk to purchase a plex to remap to take his much loved toon down a new career path.
b) Go down the new career path with out plexing, with the knowledge that he is falling further and further behind other combat pilots.
c) Work hard for a several months, abandoning his beloved character he has been with since the start of eve, and purchasing a combat pilot.

Now which do you really honestly think would give that player the most satisfaction???

Because you have just removed a) from his options!


I will further add, any established player will already know what he wants to do, and will be doing it. New players would of benefited most from this option, and an option to use it would of been what it was.

Established players already know where they are going, and what they are doing, and if a 50 million SP combat toon suddenly decides he wants to make t1 stuff, he is just going to go to the character bazaar forum and purchase a manufacturer.

If you as an established player who has earned billions does not want to pay to remap half way through the year, then you don't have to.

If the thought of other people being allowed to do that distresses you, and therefore you protest against allowing them more options, I think that is a little sad quite frankly.



AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:37:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Kurnku
Edited by: Kurnku on 24/11/2010 19:33:03
Originally by: Iosue

So you’re saying that the only way to “enhance progression” is thru having lots of RL money or in game isk? That’s patently false. I’ve made billions of isk over the years without buying PLEXs and relying on RL money.

Because I don’t want to pay more for access to the same thing I already have: all in-game content. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp??



I update my original post, with this part below

Let me give you an example.

A 6 month old indy player, who inadvertently used one of his remaps through ignorance, then the other to correct this, decides one day after finding out about plexes 0.0 titans that he wants to be a combat pilot.

With plex for remaps his options would be.

a) Work hard for a few weeks to earn enough isk to purchase a plex to remap to to take his much loved toon down a new career path.
b) Go down the new career path with out plexing, with the knowledge that he is falling further and further behind new other combat pilots.
c) Work hard for a several months, abandoning his beloved character he has been with since the start of eve, and purchasing a combat pilot.

Now which do you really honestly think would give that player the most satisfaction???

Because you have just removed a) from his option!


I will further add, any established player will already know what he wants to do, and will be doing it. New players would of benefited most from this option, and an option to use it would of been what it was.

Established players already know where they are going, and what they are doing, and if a 50 million SP combat toon suddenly decides he wants to make t1 stuff, he is just going to go to the character bazaar forum and purchase a manufacturer.

If you as an established player who has earned billions does not want to pay to remap half way through the year, then you don't have to.

If the thought of other people being allowed to do that distresses you, and therefore you protest against allowing them more options, I think that is a little sad quite frankly.





Hey douchenozzle, here's a pro-tip for you: Go play a game where making really bad decisions doesn't have serious in-game consequences. There are lots of them out there. EVE isn't one. Stop arguing in favor of making it one.

Kurnku
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:43:00 - [354]
 

Edited by: Kurnku on 24/11/2010 19:46:27
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

Hey douchenozzle, here's a pro-tip for you: Go play a game where making really bad decisions doesn't have serious in-game consequences. There are lots of them out there. EVE isn't one. Stop arguing in favor of making it one.


What an immensely constructive comment.

I reiterate, while real life money can purchase plex, and plex can purchase characters, how can you possible protest against plex for remaps? Perhaps you can answer that instead of trolling.



Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:47:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Joss56
I'm ok for plex remap but that it can't be sold or given to another account.

[...]

Again i'm ok with, i see no problem about remap with plex but the way somme players want it, for free. Has i said, making isk in this game is the easyest thing to do and mining is the worst way to get it.

This plex should be available/useful only for the acount who buys it, not for isk makers already sitting on billions.


Wait what? You're ok with PLEX for remap, but you're not ok with players doing their PLEX/Gametime<->ISK-thingy? I think you owned the threat... no, you owned the forums, you're the most ridiculous troll I ever encountered. 10/10

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:54:00 - [356]
 

Thx for the note.

Turn your brains on and read it again. If you can OC.

So you're ok for plex for remap or not?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.24 20:42:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Malcanis


EVE already has a free to play option.

that is bull**** go and play world of tanks and tell me if you need to farm ingame money to pay your subscription


I'm playing EVE and I'm not paying any money. So it's free for me to play. So, not so much "bull****" as "the literal truth".

WoT may well have different F2P conditions to EVE, but that doesn't mean EVE doesn't have a F2P option. So sorry if this undermines whatever argument you're trying to make, but facts have a way of doing that on occasion.

As I said: all games with a F2P option will restrict in some way the play options of those who don't pay. EVE's restriction is that you have to give in-game assets to the people who pay for your playtime. That's arguably a more honest transaction than abstracting it through a cash shop.

I look forward to your passionate and poorly typed refutation of the concept of being able to play for free being equivalent to free to play.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.24 20:48:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Kurnku
Edited by: Kurnku on 24/11/2010 19:46:27
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

Hey douchenozzle, here's a pro-tip for you: Go play a game where making really bad decisions doesn't have serious in-game consequences. There are lots of them out there. EVE isn't one. Stop arguing in favor of making it one.


What an immensely constructive comment.

I reiterate, while real life money can purchase plex, and plex can purchase characters, how can you possible protest against plex for remaps? Perhaps you can answer that instead of trolling.



My answer would be this: PLEX for remaps gives a concrete in-game advantage that is not available any other way.

It's not a huge advantage, although the extreme emotion being used to defend it does makes me wonder why, if the impact of extra remaps would be so insignificant, that people are getting so mad about not getting them. But the fact is that it is an advantage and it's not the same as buying game time or even buying a character. It has points of similarity, but also important differences.

If I could be 100.00% certain that CCP were just going to make it a once per character lifetime option available in order to undo a remapping screwup, then tbh I'd be OK with it. But I'm not even close to 100% certain, and as such I'm very pleased that CCP have backed away from this slippery slope.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.24 20:52:00 - [359]
 

Originally by: Floydd Heywood
Your hairsplitting doesn't matter. Many people did this, and if they are not given a way out many will lose their motivation to stay in the game. This is not just about me feeling bad, this is about a totally, utterly inept business policy. This thing was generally accepted fact for months (the whining-storm is evidence enough) and is now scrapped without prior notice at the time when it was expected to be introduced.


So what you're saying is that you gambled on extra remaps becoming available, and now that you've lost the bet, you're crying that you don't get your money back?

"Generally accepted as fact" Rolling Eyes

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.24 21:26:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
I'm playing EVE and I'm not paying any money. So it's free for me to play. So, not so much "bull****" as "the literal truth".

Lets see if I can make this any easier to understand....

You have to do something to keep your EVE account in good standing so you can continue to play. This is achieved is by purchasing PLEX with isk. You have to obtain the isk somehow. Whether that be thru mining, missioning, PI, collecting and selling datacores, pirating or setting up a lotto on the forums, you must spend some amount of time doing something. Your time has value; even the bum on the corner asking for a hand out values his time. That time/value is what you spend to play the game, thus the game is not free to play because you spend something of great value in exchange for the ability to play: your time. I say great value because once you use up all your time, you die. End of story. Now if you don’t value your limited time on this earth, then you don’t value your life. If this is the case then you should just kill yourself now and stop posting in this thread.

Note: if you argument is that EVE is free to play on this basis, you are also arguing that minerals from mining are free. The only thing needed to obtain minerals from mining is time. You don’t even have to buy a ship because the free noob ship comes with a mining lazer on it.

Now, take League of Legends for example. I can start the game and begin playing by pressing the “Play” button. I don’t have to do anything to keep my account in good standing except pressing the “Play” button. This is literally free to play. Nothing is required to keep my account in good standing. Not the same as buying PLEXs and using them for game time.


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