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Master Gotama
Posted - 2010.11.23 16:42:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Dharh
Subscriptions in MMOs work on the increasing subscription model. If you bring in more people today than you had yesterday then subscriptions work and cover the costs of running the MMO plus pay developers to maintain and add new stuff to the code. If you aren't increasing the number of subscriptions (which, as far as I know EVE subscriptions are currently stagnant or decreasing) then subscriptions DO NOT WORK well.


Dude...

Check this quarter's QEN, page 8. Subscription numbers for EVE Online have been steadily increasing since inception. Current accounts hover around 330,000. So by your argument, subscriptions for EVE Online WORK well. thanks for the suppport!

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.11.23 16:52:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: Master Gotama
So EVE has operated for 7 years on a subscription basis alone (with a growing subscriber base, mind you), and now they need more money to implement/develop hairstyles and paintjobs?? There are plenty of ways they could cut costs or increase revenue without going the MT route. MT offers an additional source of revenue (which is unpredictable at best), but I would be amazed if they were relying on this as a means to support ongoing operations and development of their premier product; EVE Online. The idea that ďgames without ME will not get extra stuffsĒ is silly and smacks of naivety. The game has been getting extra stuffs for 7 years, why the change now?



I see the point of the blog explaining that the pricing expectations in the game market are changing .

At some point if the market diverges from EVE's too much, and especially if paying $15 a month looks unusually expensive compared to alternate games, CCP will have a real problem attracting new players. If that shift is rapid, the company will have difficult time maitainng staff.. not to mention that it is a for profit company that would like to grow.

Lower priced play (or play for free)combined with MT has people willing to spend more to play susidizing those who will only play, (or only get started playing) for less.

They didn't need it in the past, but Eve's price point and monthly fee was in line with more competitors at the time too.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.11.23 16:58:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Master Gotama
Originally by: Dharh
Subscriptions in MMOs work on the increasing subscription model. If you bring in more people today than you had yesterday then subscriptions work and cover the costs of running the MMO plus pay developers to maintain and add new stuff to the code. If you aren't increasing the number of subscriptions (which, as far as I know EVE subscriptions are currently stagnant or decreasing) then subscriptions DO NOT WORK well.


Dude...

Check this quarter's QEN, page 8. Subscription numbers for EVE Online have been steadily increasing since inception. Current accounts hover around 330,000. So by your argument, subscriptions for EVE Online WORK well. thanks for the suppport!



"hover" is a dangerous position . The mix of those subscriptions between ALTs, using plex for time and those paying extra to Sell those $plex for isk is important too.


Its entirely possible that the number of real people/players has not been increasing and the revenue streams focused on a fraction of the players buying more than one plex per month per acount to buy isk. They can also estimate the average time in the game for those people spending extra $ and if they see it biased towards players near the back point of the average eve gam interst cycle , they might see writing on the wall

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:08:00 - [274]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 23/11/2010 17:08:38
Originally by: Master Gotama

Dude...

Check this quarter's QEN, page 8. Subscription numbers for EVE Online have been steadily increasing since inception. Current accounts hover around 330,000. So by your argument, subscriptions for EVE Online WORK well. thanks for the suppport!


Increasing ? Dude check dev blogs:

"Hilmar: CCP is focused on fleet fight lag, re-organization within the company,
simplification of processes, and limitations of the scale of the projects so that they can
be safely and successfully delivered. Furthermore, the recent subscriber trends,
although showing the number of subscribers decreasing minutely or about 0.9% in the last two months..."

And other thing, 330k subscribers means nothing.
Those numbers not equal with active subscribers.
30-50k playing daily and atleast 50% these peoples use alts.
The real daily playerbase not much than 20k.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:16:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

I haven't seen this arguement in a while and I am pretty sure that noone with a clue, who fought against PLEX for ISK or Microtransactions as a whole, used this arguement.
The real arguements are vast and have been laid out time and again. Just check EVE-O-forums, speak with with the CSM-members or have a look at SHC. I'm not getting paid enough for doing the same exercise time and again and it's really becoming tiresome. However it should spark your interest that, as it seems, the whole CSM is more or less united in their cause on this and that CCP obviously agreed with their arguements.


Well just for fun I checked the assembly hall thread about the micro transactions. Read the first 5 pages and gave up. Hell the OP of that thread didn't have a substantial reason as to why they were against micro transactions. The few people who voted yes and stated a reason why were thoroughly ignored. In no particular order I saw a lot of slippery slope fallacies, bandwagoning, "OMG THIS WILL MAKE EVE LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO." Oh, and a lot of people saying "no" or "ima quit, k." Here's the thing:

-PLEX for remap doesn't make you better than other players. As long as implants and learning skills are the same your max SP/hr is no faster than any other players. I think too many people likens PLEX for remap with PLEX for SP. I do agree that plex for SP would be really, really bad. However, its PLEX for remap and not SP.

-I'd be willing to bet the people who did say they would quit are probably too addicted to actually follow through with quitting. There's probably a small number of people who quit after every major patch when "their" OP play style was ruined (speed nerf, myrm nerf, NOS nerf, etc.). I doubt the amount of people actually quitting from PLEX for remap would be much different than the aforementioned nerfs.

That being said, I welcome any sort of substantial argument against PLEX for remap. Hint: whining about CCP's profit margins isn't one of those.

Master Gotama
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:19:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
"hover" is a dangerous position . The mix of those subscriptions between ALTs, using plex for time and those paying extra to Sell those $plex for isk is important too.

that's an interesting point, but i actually think it works the other way. even assuming a large number of accounts are paid via PLEXs, the PLEX itself has only one way of getting into the game. Somebody at some time had to pay RL$$ for it. So for every accounts using a PLEX to pay for the sub, someone somewhere had to pump RL money into the game. In fact, from the RL $$ perspective, the PLEX is the most expensive (and best for CCP) way to pay for an account, annual subs can be purchased at a lower RL$$ cost. Combine that with the fact that there are more PLEXs in circulation than are ever being actually used at one time (just look at the stockpiles on the market, not to mention all those sitting in peoples hangars), and the annual subscription numbers donít come close to describing the actual revenue this game already produces. I just canít see how one can justify MT as a necessity for this game.

Scorpion Venom1
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:22:00 - [277]
 

I would prefer to see something such as ďsale rightsĒ being sold in the form of business licenses. Basic vanity items, such as basic clothing would be available in BPOs sold using isk, and can be sold on the local market FOR isk. To CUSTOMIZE, and sell customized Vanity items, you would have to buy a ďPilots Business license extensionĒ (PBLEX) which would be a monthly item such as PLEX, that would allow you to customize, and sell vanity items, such as clothing, hats, footwear, necklaces, and awesome ship decals (lag permitting). PBLEX would also keep separate from PLEX as to keep PLEX prices at a reasonable level. The design tool should also be an in game tool, that you can import pictures, decals, and anything else you would like, for use in your decorations. Of course, profanity, and nudity would have to be reportable, so anybody with a picture of boobs on ones ship should be kept to a minimum =p

I typed this up real quick so possible more to come in edits.

Dr Carstein
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:39:00 - [278]
 

Regarding PLEX for remap and CSM involvement:

This result has made me lose faith in the CSM. They've worked so hard to get to a position where CCP will listen to them seriously, and what do they go and do? They talk CCP out of a revenue stream that would have benefited the majority of the player base, to which I still can't see a downside. There are so many things in Eve that need attention, this extra revenue could have gone towards looking at them. Or more marketing to increase subscriptions. Or pay rises to retain highly skilled staff. Basically more money for CCP means Eve will get more love, directly or not.

I've survived for over 3 years without PLEX for remap, and I'll do fine without it, that's not the issue. The issue is that the CSM is effectively a collection of popularity contest winners, and are getting a say in CCPs buisness processes. How many people on the CSM have experience in that field? If my assumptions are correct the answer is none. They're just players theory crafting about things they don't fully understand.

The CSM is a good idea, and I really like that it exists. But it's my opinion that this isn't the kind of thing they should be getting a say in.

Master Gotama
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:45:00 - [279]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 23/11/2010 17:08:38
Originally by: Master Gotama

Dude...

Check this quarter's QEN, page 8. Subscription numbers for EVE Online have been steadily increasing since inception. Current accounts hover around 330,000. So by your argument, subscriptions for EVE Online WORK well. thanks for the suppport!


Increasing ? Dude check dev blogs:

"Hilmar: CCP is focused on fleet fight lag, re-organization within the company,
simplification of processes, and limitations of the scale of the projects so that they can
be safely and successfully delivered. Furthermore, the recent subscriber trends,
although showing the number of subscribers decreasing minutely or about 0.9% in the last two months..."

And other thing, 330k subscribers means nothing.
Those numbers not equal with active subscribers.
30-50k playing daily and atleast 50% these peoples use alts.
The real daily playerbase not much than 20k.


So your asserting that a .9% negative trend over a two month period is indicative an overall trend going back 7+ years? That makes a lot of sense. Thereís no doubt that numbers fluctuate, but to establish any type of reasonable trend, you need more than a two-month period data set. Look at the graph in the QEN, they have dips, but the overall trend is upwards.

As for the subscriber base meaning nothing?? What the hell are you talking about? From Wikipedia: The subscription business model is a business model where a customer must pay a subscription price to have access to the product/service. Now itís entirely possible that CCP is prostituting the use of the word to include non-paying accounts. But from the information they provide, and all reasonable interpretations of that info, Iíd say the subscriber base is a big deal when determining their revenue. And it doesnít matter if many of the subscriber accounts are alts using PLEXs, because someone has to pay RL$$ for those PLEXs.

Eraggan Sadarr
Comply Or Die
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:49:00 - [280]
 

I have read devblogs since i started in 2006, and this is the first time a devblog sounded like it was written by someone from another company...

I truly hope that CCP haven't lost their way.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:49:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Dr Carstein
They talk CCP out of a revenue stream that would have benefited the majority of the player base, to which I still can't see a downside. There are so many things in Eve that need attention, this extra revenue could have gone towards looking at them. Or more marketing to increase subscriptions. Or pay rises to retain highly skilled staff. Basically more money for CCP means Eve will get more love, directly or not.


the downside is that they may, and very likely will, use those funds for ANOTHERgame. they are already developing two additional titles DUST and WoD. One has nothing to do with EVE. Both have to derive their development dollars from somewhere, and everyone knows that games in development don't produce income.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:56:00 - [282]
 

Edited by: Hawk TT on 23/11/2010 17:57:18
Originally by: Dmoney3788
Originally by: Ebisu Kami

I haven't seen this arguement in a while and I am pretty sure that noone with a clue, who fought against PLEX for ISK or Microtransactions as a whole, used this arguement.
The real arguements are vast and have been laid out time and again. Just check EVE-O-forums, speak with with the CSM-members or have a look at SHC. I'm not getting paid enough for doing the same exercise time and again and it's really becoming tiresome. However it should spark your interest that, as it seems, the whole CSM is more or less united in their cause on this and that CCP obviously agreed with their arguements.


Well just for fun I checked the assembly hall thread about the micro transactions. Read the first 5 pages and gave up. Hell the OP of that thread didn't have a substantial reason as to why they were against micro transactions. The few people who voted yes and stated a reason why were thoroughly ignored. In no particular order I saw a lot of slippery slope fallacies, bandwagoning, "OMG THIS WILL MAKE EVE LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO." Oh, and a lot of people saying "no" or "ima quit, k." Here's the thing:

-PLEX for remap doesn't make you better than other players. As long as implants and learning skills are the same your max SP/hr is no faster than any other players. I think too many people likens PLEX for remap with PLEX for SP. I do agree that plex for SP would be really, really bad. However, its PLEX for remap and not SP.

-I'd be willing to bet the people who did say they would quit are probably too addicted to actually follow through with quitting. There's probably a small number of people who quit after every major patch when "their" OP play style was ruined (speed nerf, myrm nerf, NOS nerf, etc.). I doubt the amount of people actually quitting from PLEX for remap would be much different than the aforementioned nerfs.

That being said, I welcome any sort of substantial argument against PLEX for remap. Hint: whining about CCP's profit margins isn't one of those.


Totally agree!

I would add that in comparison with WoW, EVE is a charity! WoW has 35 times more paid subscribers, they charge the same monthly fee + 40-60USD per expansion (just multiply 50 by 11.5 million) and still deliver crappy, laggy, childish content + lots of artificial limitations, because their sharded servers cannot cope with the load...

To all the whiners: What do you expect? CCP is a private business - THEY HAVE TO MAKE MONEY TO STAY IN THE BUSINESS. Do you want them bought by Zynga? Or Blizzard? C'mon, stop crying like babies!

WE ALL SHOULD SUPPORT EVERY OPTIONAL REVENUE STREAM FOR CCP! We all want EVE to be the ultimate Sci-Fi simulator, right? It takes money, hell a lot of a money...

Dr Carstein
Posted - 2010.11.23 17:59:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Iosue
the downside is that they may, and very likely will, use those funds for ANOTHERgame. they are already developing two additional titles DUST and WoD. One has nothing to do with EVE. Both have to derive their development dollars from somewhere, and everyone knows that games in development don't produce income.


That's not a downside, it has no negative impact on Eve.

I do see your point however, that there's no guarantee CCP will spend that additional profit on Eve. However, regardless of what project they do spend it on, it will make CCP a stronger company, which helps to secure the future of Eve.

A minor fringe benefit granted, but since I'm still yet to see a downside to offering PLEX for remap the net effect is positive.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:29:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Dr Carstein
That's not a downside, it has no negative impact on Eve.

I do see your point however, that there's no guarantee CCP will spend that additional profit on Eve. However, regardless of what project they do spend it on, it will make CCP a stronger company, which helps to secure the future of Eve.

A minor fringe benefit granted, but since I'm still yet to see a downside to offering PLEX for remap the net effect is positive.


unless of course they flop. but this is all really besides the point. i just don't want to have to pay more for access to game content. i feel like my sub cost should cover it. MT for games items, even vanity items is not acceptable imo.

now if they make access to vanity items available with isk also, Iíve got no problems because thatís pretty much the status quo. but i just can't see why they would start this crap storm if they didnít intend to make items available thru MT only. And yes, Iím aware that they stated otherwise in the blog, but forgive me if I donít take their word that itíll be okay and its all for the best on face value.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:34:00 - [285]
 

Quote:
Lets face it, in terms of the video game realm, making a yearly commitment is a hell of a long time, and I'd be willing to bet that there would be more players in eve if they didn't have to make a yearly commitment.


/agree

But dont try to make some understand that, not more than the fact that after 7 YEARS, this community your community, counts 350K +/- active acounts, and theyr actions one way or another have impact on this. How many of you play two or three accounts?

Noobs being shoted when they dont even know wtf is learnings or a fit or even a frig, do you think this is some responsable attitude for YOUR game and community?

Can give you hundreds of examples like these, and what you guys do? nothing at all, you encourage them to do it and then you get here takling about 'honnor' 'repectability' "comunity interests"

The only comunity interests i can see you guys here defending is your alts isk makers comunity, nothing else than yourselves.

What are you guys doing since 7 years for your comunity and most important, for your game?
- blow noobs at starting zones, "pvp" (laugh) mission runners in high sec and a lot more like this.

your own corps do this all the time and you encourage them to do it so

/bravo

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:37:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Iosue

MT for games items, even vanity items is not acceptable imo.


Isn't that what most people who buy plex actually do? Buy a plex, sell it for isk (cuz they don't have enough) and then buy a game item. Of course if you're referring to a remap as an item. Well, you can always buy a plex with isk and use that for a remap. And remember, plex for remap just means you can create a skill path for intervals less than a year.

Dr Carstein
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:46:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Iosue
unless of course they flop. but this is all really besides the point. i just don't want to have to pay more for access to game content. i feel like my sub cost should cover it. MT for games items, even vanity items is not acceptable imo.

now if they make access to vanity items available with isk also, Iíve got no problems because thatís pretty much the status quo. but i just can't see why they would start this crap storm if they didnít intend to make items available thru MT only. And yes, Iím aware that they stated otherwise in the blog, but forgive me if I donít take their word that itíll be okay and its all for the best on face value.



I was only talking about the PLEX for remap.

I haven't decided where I stand on PLEX for in game vanity items. Part of me thinks that since we have to pay to play already they shouldn't be optional extras. Another part of me thinks that if it doesn't effect gameplay or balance then I don't really care what they do.

PLEX can be bought in game with isk, which can then be used to buy these vanity items. So by defualt they will be buyable via isk.

De'Vadder
Minmatar
Dissonance Corp
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:57:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: Dmoney3788

That being said, I welcome any sort of substantial argument against PLEX for remap. Hint: whining about CCP's profit margins isn't one of those.


I know my english skills might make my posts hard to read but:

Quote:
Not that anyone would read up to here, but to all you pro plex for remaps people: Ever wondered why its not Isk for remap? That is not the same, allthough i understand many will not grasp the difference. I believe there would be a lot more people accepting that. But CCP doesnt want it. They dont want it because the whole point of this is to increase demand for Plex (which is currently at 1 per month per account). Obviously that would mean more money for CCP, what is a good thing, but it would also make Plex more expensive ingame. And that makes buying ISK for cash cheaper and i mean a lot cheaper. That is bad, if you cant figure out why, go play Atlantica and try to buy you a horse or decoration or wings without paying real money.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:59:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Dmoney3788
Originally by: Iosue

MT for games items, even vanity items is not acceptable imo.


Isn't that what most people who buy plex actually do? Buy a plex, sell it for isk (cuz they don't have enough) and then buy a game item. Of course if you're referring to a remap as an item. Well, you can always buy a plex with isk and use that for a remap. And remember, plex for remap just means you can create a skill path for intervals less than a year.


except that i wouldn't consider a PLEX a "micro" transaction. When buying a PLEX you're paying for a monthly subscription. That game-time can then be converted into isk or used for time. My understanding of MT is closer to what Zynga and other do when charging you a dollar or two for an item or game points. after spending over $1000 USD to-date (thats in subs, not PLEX) on this game, i don't want to be nickled and dimed to death with MT in order to access all this game has to offer.

Now, if MT items can be bought for isk, then I donít see a problem because we can already do this, as you point out. But if this is the case, I canít see why they would be calling it MT and angering much of their player base in the process. if their intention is to make MT items available with isk, why not just use the already existing mechanisms for this? Just implement it as an expensive NPC item and let the market take care of it. their approach just doesnít make sense, which is why so many are suspicious.

Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.11.23 18:59:00 - [290]
 

Originally by: Virtuozzo

To quote someone else from a recent discussion:

EVE as an IP and CCP as a company has an effective monopoly on the sandbox MMO marketplace, a good ecological niche that is reasonably protected from predators. It is better to be the biggest minnow in the puddle than a big fish in the sea, because you are at the top of a restricted food chain. You may not get huge, but you will never get eaten.

Get to that point first, while preparing ventures to conquer further puddles and seas. Without forgetting the puddle that feeds.

Fear of big fishes, is only rational if you swim in their sea, and they are too big to enter yours.



Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.11.23 19:35:00 - [291]
 

Good choice.

/c

and yeah I'm somewhat disabled atm, body running on 10%

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.23 19:49:00 - [292]
 

Edited by: Dmoney3788 on 23/11/2010 19:50:25
Originally by: Iosue

except that i wouldn't consider a PLEX a "micro" transaction. When buying a PLEX you're paying for a monthly subscription. That game-time can then be converted into isk or used for time. My understanding of MT is closer to what Zynga and other do when charging you a dollar or two for an item or game points. after spending over $1000 USD to-date (thats in subs, not PLEX) on this game, i don't want to be nickled and dimed to death with MT in order to access all this game has to offer.


Actually when you buy a plex, you buy a plex. It can either be used for increasing your monthly subscription or be sold for isk. Slippery slope is slippery. Nuff said.

-edit- que the chribba quoting fanboys Rolling Eyes

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.11.23 19:54:00 - [293]
 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and which confuses me, is the fear that people who could pay to "get ahead" will unbalance the game.

First peole already can use $ to buy faction-ships, avoid ratting or doing missions, expensive performance enhancing implants giving extra damage etc. I don't feel any inbalance due to that:

here's the main reason.

From day one, we know we will be playing for months, perhaps years in an unbalanced position relative to those that came before us.

I think many peole have the most fun with the game in the first year of play even with their cabalities dwarfed by others...I certainly don't think I have more fun per hour with every additional skill that I can use.

The very design of the game allows people to perform some vital roles for even expierenced 0.0 corps at 95% capacity, with in months. (intercepters scouts or cloak warp in makers etc. ... ecm in a blackbird, a bubble from a sabre).

The sandbox allows all sorts of play styles. The 80/20 rules so built into the game make learning the base skills far faster than advanced skills, make geting 80% of the benefit of a skill take a fraction of the time to go the next step to level 5

Sandbox driven metrics of sucess discount the use of $ by defining and reognizing KB efficiency in a way that makes a person paying to fly a faction or a t3 ship into value really risk sabotaging that metric. The player created point system encourages a metric for sucess for cooperation of less skill players in t1 cruisers to take down a battleship even if they all dies soon after to his fleetmates.

The very notion that someone with a better ship or more SP is ahead of you just doesn't make sense to me. Its not like they earned them from superior cometitive play.. they just started their subscription earlier.

The idea that they'll have more fun (which is what games are about) makes even less sense.

That doesn't mean there isn't some point wher MTs would go way too far. An unlimited right to buy sp would change the nature of the game, yet, buying a 15% rate increase isn't going to rile things much. Being able to buy 200k sp once a month wouldnt mean anything relative to players with 15 million plus sp. I don't know where the exact line would be ideal but anything less than twice as fast would be managable.

It would only matter relative to a friend starting the same time as you. As friends you can decided whats lame and what isn't between you.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.11.23 20:11:00 - [294]
 


Quote:
Not that anyone would read up to here, but to all you pro plex for remaps people: Ever wondered why its not Isk for remap? That is not the same, allthough i understand many will not grasp the difference. I believe there would be a lot more people accepting that. But CCP doesnt want it. They dont want it because the whole point of this is to increase demand for Plex (which is currently at 1 per month per account). Obviously that would mean more money for CCP, what is a good thing, but it would also make Plex more expensive ingame. And that makes buying ISK for cash cheaper and i mean a lot cheaper. That is bad, if you cant figure out why, go play Atlantica and try to buy you a horse or decoration or wings without paying real money.


You are correct that using Plex instead of Isk will drive up the cost of plex.

This will hurt playes like me that get to have 4 accounts and not even pay for one account to play the game.

Big deal, the game just got a bit harder for me..turned up the difficulty level. Maybe i'm not entitled to as easy of advantage having unaligned cloaky scouts near every region.

Maybe its a shift that diminishes my advantage relative to newer players who haven't had the time to figure out how to make oodels of isk or built the capital to do so.

But I'm a bigger guy than to assume that what is bad for me is a bad game design decision. I try not to let my self interest bias musings about the working of games.

For what its worth, (and not to suggest that anypeople taking the time to share opinions here would be involved)... higher plex prices really really hurt the RMT, or even perhaps those who hoped one day laws or circumstances might change to give them a cash out option.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.11.23 20:27:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Good choice.

/c

and yeah I'm somewhat disabled atm, body running on 10%


Chribba is injured. Everyone send him your Healing Veldspar. Its our only chance!

Feisty Cadavar
Posted - 2010.11.23 20:28:00 - [296]
 

One thing I don't understand ... Why not do plex/isk for remaps? So far I've only heard two reasons against it:
1. That we don't want rich kids having an unfair advantage.
2. That it will increase the cost of plex and drive people out of the game.

If we're looking at reason one then we're assuming an endless remap cycle to maximize skills. Why not re-engineer the neural remap engine instead? The more remaps a character does over lets say a year, the less that he can remap. So essentially allow 1 - 2 extra remaps per year at cost over the current 1 remap available. The more they remap, the more points / attributes that are frozen and unavailable for remap ( kind of like neural damage ). People may pay for those first couple and have maybe 1 every 4 months vs 1 a year but they're not going to pay for a PLEX for minimal gains in sp speeds. I mean it would take over 2 years to catch someone with a 1 million sp advantage if you were training 50sp/hour faster then they were. A friend of mine maximizes his sp and learning and is currently training @2509 sp/hour in pri/will skills only. I'm currently training @2376 sp/hour for the most part ( went more balanced ). He's training at a whopping 133sp/hour more than I am. If we both continue to train at those respective rates he'll overcome his 18m sp deficit to me in 15.44 years. I don't know about anyone else but that is hardly a huge advantage.

If we're looking at addressing option two then a combination of re-engineering the remaps so that they're not infinitely available AND pinning it to isk from plex should address that concern.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.23 20:43:00 - [297]
 

Edited by: Shandir on 23/11/2010 20:51:54
Is anyone else now dreading the release of Incarna and the embedded microtransaction model?

The devblog appears to be saying that the only feature we can be sure of in Incarna at this point is that it's going to hit our wallets.

(Not poor, just hate MT and what it does to a good game)

Edit: Feisty? Listen harder - you're only hearing what you want to hear.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2010.11.23 21:43:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu

God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.



What?!? You must be new here. Newest research suggest they got scammed out of their earth in Jita 4-4.

/applause on the contents of the rest of the blog. Good decision.

Aldee
Federated Holdings
Posted - 2010.11.23 22:06:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Feisty Cadavar
One thing I don't understand ... Why not do plex/isk for remaps? So far I've only heard two reasons against it:
1. That we don't want rich kids having an unfair advantage.
2. That it will increase the cost of plex and drive people out of the game.



There are more then 2 reasons you just only picked two.

Originally by: Rodj Blake

Now to clarify my original point: limitless respecs essentially means that all stats are maxed out for all training, thus making all attributes equivalent for anyone with enough ISK or RL cash. This means that the training speed becomes constant, rendering attributes obsolete.



Feisty Cadavar
Posted - 2010.11.23 22:11:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: Aldee
Originally by: Feisty Cadavar
One thing I don't understand ... Why not do plex/isk for remaps? So far I've only heard two reasons against it:
1. That we don't want rich kids having an unfair advantage.
2. That it will increase the cost of plex and drive people out of the game.



There are more then 2 reasons you just only picked two.

Originally by: Rodj Blake

Now to clarify my original point: limitless respecs essentially means that all stats are maxed out for all training, thus making all attributes equivalent for anyone with enough ISK or RL cash. This means that the training speed becomes constant, rendering attributes obsolete.





What are the other two? The one that you pointed out is the problem with limitless respecs. I addressed that in my solution to the first problem of unfair advantage. I boiled them down into their base elements. limitless respecs == unfair advantage. Please let me know which one I missed. You only pointed out one extra which wasn't really an extra at all. Are you saying that they would render attributes obsolete and that training speed becomes a constant? Those are symptoms of the problem of limitless respecs and the unfair advantage that would be caused by rich kids.


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