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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr
Inadeptus Mechanicus
Posted - 2010.11.21 14:35:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 21/11/2010 14:41:20
The profits of mining in game right now are silly low.

Even mining Arkanor, you are looking at 8,5 mil/hour.

Changes that would fix mining as a valid profession:

1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


With a lower amount of macro miners along with mining being the only way to get minerals, mining would once again be valid as a way to make money.

Messed up the math, the hulk got 3 miners -.-

My point still stand though.

Krevnos
Posted - 2010.11.21 14:38:00 - [2]
 

While I can't argue with the first point, since macro-mining has become a huge aspect of EvE, the rest I am going to bring you up on:

You want to make the easiest profession in the game more profitable by causing everyone else the grief of setting up hundreds of sell orders just to get rid of their crap?

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2010.11.21 14:41:00 - [3]
 

Only correct solution is to change mining so it's hard to do while half AFK or done by macros.

Stig Sterling
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:00:00 - [4]
 

I would agree that somthing needs to be done.

I biomassed my mining alt, but when I was using him, I could make about 1 to 2mil in about 2 to 4 hours (average length of time I am online).

On the other hand, I can make twice that from doing a few missions, and looting/ salvaging, in the same amount of time. Salvaging especcially seems to be one of the most profitable activities I have done in EVE.

On the 2010 Prioritizing thread, #83 suggests a general dissussion on mining. While this might take a long time to actually have any effect in game, It is worth voting on. The main issues are the exatct ones raised by the OP.

So get on over and vote m'kay?

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:02:00 - [5]
 

Firstly, I'm pretty sure your numbers off; Off the top of my head, Arkanor in a hulk should be able to get at LEAST 15 mil per hour, and that's taking into account the shuffling around of things within that hour.

Secondly, yes, you're probably right about macro miners.

Thirdly, you're probably half right about loot drops, mainly because the majority of moneymakers in Eve are mission runners.

Finally, I believe mining is supposed to be the easy way of making money in Eve. Doesn't require a lot of heavy thought. I also believe mining needs an overhaul, but we probably won't get that any time soon as CCP is more interested in.. other things. Which may or may not be more important.

Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:03:00 - [6]
 

If the income from mining is too low, do something else. If the income from running L4 is too low, do something else. If the income from 0.0 ratting is too low, do something else.

Petitions to CCP to change mechanics to protect any specific activity (mining, mission running, plexing, 0.0 ratting, etc.) should be frowned upon as protectionist activity because it results in an unnatural market.

Put another way: why do miners have any particular entitlement to always make a viable income compared to any other activity? Should miners in particular be immune from having to adapt to a changing economic environment?

While I agree that things like macros are annoying, the easy ways to really eliminate macros also affect every other pilot (a simple fix to eliminate both mining and mission macros, but admittedly with other potentially tear-inducing side effects: allow only T1 frigs and cruisers if in an NPC corp, require 72-96 hour membership - this also means a corp cannot be disbanded within that time period from the initiation of a wardec - in a corp to reduce corp hopping from wardecs; the latter in particular opens the door to quite a few potential abuses).

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:04:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 21/11/2010 15:04:46

1) Get rid of the macro miners indeed.
Make it impossible to macro mine, make mining something more complicated so it requires more human input.

I'm quite surprised it's not even on the CSM list ...

Zaboth Garadath
Amarr
Ore Extraction Corporation
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:36:00 - [8]
 

Hopefully with the introduction of Incursions, the number of macro miners being killed will go up significantly, as they (For a while at least) will not be able to distinguish whether a system has normal rats or uber rats of doom who warp scram in the belts.

I really cannot wait to watch them all burn Very Happy

Stig Sterling
Posted - 2010.11.21 15:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 21/11/2010 15:04:46

1) Get rid of the macro miners indeed.
Make it impossible to macro mine, make mining something more complicated so it requires more human input.

I'm quite surprised it's not even on the CSM list ...


It is in the CSM list, look at my previous post, its #83.

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.11.21 16:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 21/11/2010 14:41:20
The profits of mining in game right now are silly low.

Even mining Arkanor, you are looking at 8,5 mil/hour.

Changes that would fix mining as a valid profession:

1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


With a lower amount of macro miners along with mining being the only way to get minerals, mining would once again be valid as a way to make money.

Messed up the math, the hulk got 3 miners -.-

My point still stand though.


Crai more dumb noob.
Thats all answer you deserve.

But anyway. The problem is macro miners. The answer is not to nerf everyone else in uselessness.

Mining doest work(anything as mind numbingly easy as mining will be a done by macros) so grow a brain and do something else.



Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.21 16:46:00 - [11]
 

1. Minerals I mine are free
2. Minerals sell on market
3. ????
4. Free money = profit!

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.21 16:49:00 - [12]
 

Macro miners are only part of the problem the drone regions are full of macro ravens farming the drone loot.

Sumelar
Posted - 2010.11.21 16:50:00 - [13]
 

I agree with point 2, but the rest is junk. Mission rats should only drop meta 3+, and with the same drop rates that exist now. Get rid of the rest of the junk.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:02:00 - [14]
 


How about making it so that mining targets are cleared at the end of each cycle.

Macro-mining is successful because AFK mining is possible.

KB

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:19:00 - [15]
 

I do think that most--if not all--minerals should come from mining rather than missions or ratting.

Beyond that, I don't think it should be artificially made to be more profitable. If mining is the sole source of minerals and it's still not profitable, then there are just too many miners or not enough demand and those are valid market conditions that don't need "fixing".

Of course macro miners are bad, also. I think everyone realizes and agrees with that.

Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:29:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 21/11/2010 14:41:20
The profits of mining in game right now are silly low.

Even mining Arkanor, you are looking at 8,5 mil/hour.

8,5 mil/hour is mining Veldspar in High Sec.

But one think should be really change and thats the reprossing of T1 items. Should be only 50% of the minerials as needed to build thme.


Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
1. Minerals I mine are free
2. Minerals sell on market
3. ????
4. Free money = profit!


2b. If I use the minerals I mined for free to build ships, I can sell them at lower prices than anyone because the minerals I mined were free

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:34:00 - [18]
 

They nerfed mission loot already the problem is macro lamers and mining being ******edly boring, kill the macros and make mining fun!

wah bok
Caldari
Copperhead Arsenal
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jamaican Herbsman
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
1. Minerals I mine are free
2. Minerals sell on market
3. ????
4. Free money = profit!


2b. If I use the minerals I mined for free to build ships, I can sell them at lower prices than anyone because the minerals I mined were free


So instead of selling the mins and make more money you choose to spend time building a ship and then sell at lower cost ??
your not very smart are you

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:41:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 21/11/2010 17:42:15
Edited by: Aessoroz on 21/11/2010 17:41:17
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw


1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


1. CCP isn't working agaisn't macro players :D *hint* visit systems with 300+ macro haulers running through lowsec every hour
2. And kill off an entire profession and income source for newbies
3. Illogical, less then 100% makes sense but not freaking 5%
4. While the russians using macros en masse in drone regions is the real cause of screwed up minerals, well you can't do much agaisn't them. (They even macro rat in carriers)

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:43:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 21/11/2010 14:41:20
The profits of mining in game right now are silly low.

Even mining Arkanor, you are looking at 8,5 mil/hour.

Changes that would fix mining as a valid profession:

1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


With a lower amount of macro miners along with mining being the only way to get minerals, mining would once again be valid as a way to make money.

Messed up the math, the hulk got 3 miners -.-

My point still stand though.
Although I somewhat agree with you, I'm really not that sure about your point (3). Seems a little extreme.


Takseen
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:49:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Takseen on 21/11/2010 17:52:53
Quote:
How about making it so that mining targets are cleared at the end of each cycle.

Macro-mining is successful because AFK mining is possible.


Um, it might hurt human multiboxers a bit, but macroers could adapt to this quite easily, its just another step(re-target roid every 180 seconds) to add to their bot programs.

Quote:
8,5 mil/hour is mining Veldspar in High Sec.




That doesn't sound bad for a profession thats easy to access in terms of skill training, easy to perform, and very safe. Maybe the problem is that there's no advanced mining skills or tasks beyond fleeting up with an Orca and doing WH/0.0 gravsites. Maybe something like the comet mining that I've seen mentioned a few times.

It also doesn't help that mining doesn't really have any unique resource rewards, I think everything except Morphite can also be gotten from drone ratting or missioning. Compare that to meta modules and faction/deadspace mods that are rewards exclusive to pve missioning or plexes.

Gravemind GER
Caldari
Fnord Works
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:54:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 21/11/2010 17:42:15
Edited by: Aessoroz on 21/11/2010 17:41:17
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw


1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


1. CCP isn't working agaisn't macro players :D *hint* visit systems with 300+ macro haulers running through lowsec every hour
2. And kill off an entire profession and income source for newbies
3. Illogical, less then 100% makes sense but not freaking 5%
4. While the russians using macros en masse in drone regions is the real cause of screwed up minerals, well you can't do much agaisn't them. (They even macro rat in supercarriers)


fix'd it for you (im serious)

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.21 18:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gravemind GER
Originally by: Aessoroz
They even macro rat in supercarriers)


fix'd it for you (im serious)


What do you think the Sansha Roflcarrier is made for?

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.11.21 18:17:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: wah bok
Originally by: Jamaican Herbsman
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
1. Minerals I mine are free
2. Minerals sell on market
3. ????
4. Free money = profit!


2b. If I use the minerals I mined for free to build ships, I can sell them at lower prices than anyone because the minerals I mined were free


So instead of selling the mins and make more money you choose to spend time building a ship and then sell at lower cost ??
your not very smart are you


Appears to be smarter than you lol

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.11.21 19:29:00 - [26]
 

There will be something done..it will be reduced.Just like mission pay out keeps getting reduced.

Its really simple from the devs point of view..

Nerf all sources of income to death,people buy plex instead...profit.Rolling Eyes


Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.11.21 19:59:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 21/11/2010 14:41:20
The profits of mining in game right now are silly low.

Even mining Arkanor, you are looking at 8,5 mil/hour.

Changes that would fix mining as a valid profession:

1)I know CCP is working against macro miners already but please put in more resources.

2) Remove T1 loot from missions.

3) Make named loot only refine for a total of 5% of the mineralvalue of T1

4) Remove drone compound drops. Make them drop Named loot instead.


With a lower amount of macro miners along with mining being the only way to get minerals, mining would once again be valid as a way to make money.

Messed up the math, the hulk got 3 miners -.-

My point still stand though.
With the exception of policing macro-miners, simply-put, no.

Come up with a more creative solution than nerfing other people's sources of legitimate, EULA-compliant income.

First of all, there should still be a significant demand for minerals with the marked increase of Super Carrier production (reference the 2010 Q3 QEN). Those SC hulls take *massive* amounts of minerals to build.

Second, consider using your brain for two moments to look at what makes a profit in the existing market. If the raw materials have low margins, try creating a more valuable product out of the ore that you mine via capital components or other [researched] blueprints and built stuff(tm). As a miner [and industrialist], expand your knowledge and involvement in the game rather than look to the game developer to create a "fix."

Good luck.

Running missions
Posted - 2010.11.21 20:09:00 - [28]
 

after macroers are killed, mining will be fixed, macro ratters and macro miners both ruin mining as a profession. insurance didnt help either though



oh hey i gotta idea, double mineral cost of all cap ships.Embarassed

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.11.21 21:08:00 - [29]
 

Stop macros and mining gets fixed.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.21 21:23:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jekyl Eraser
Only correct solution is to change mining so it's hard to do while half AFK or done by macros.


only solution is to make supply of the minerals smaller and effort required to get minerals more intricate.

Miners should have choice between ROCKS... some contain ore, some are 50% bare... some are pure dust + water. Only mineral scanner and careful astrogeological exploration can help locate valuable ores...

Ores should be quite finite... Low value rocks (low percentage of ore) quite abundant.

Only out of bound areas, where rocks have escaped the gravity well should contain the possibly valuable materials. But require special equipment (i.e. skiffs resistant to toxic clouds) and expedition to extract the ore...

Set random rock fields as exploration... Asteroid sites that migrate around space and are rather hard to trace down. Miners that look for valuable ore fields get rewarded better that carebears who prefer to grind barren (20% rich) rocks.

This should not **** off starters but reward the specialized professionals.


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