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Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 15:55:00 - [1]
 

CCP,

when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay?

I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?
In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join?

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:06:00 - [2]
 

I kill people simply because I enjoy watching the little red bars crawl onward.

Mytzso
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:11:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
CCP,
troll troll troll
***** ***** *****

If you don't like something take your spatula and bucket and GET THE **** OUT OF MY SANDBOX!

Lords Hunter
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:12:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Lords Hunter on 08/11/2010 16:12:56
Originally by: Solena Rain
CCP,

when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does carebearing play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to carebear but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay?

I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?
In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join?


Fixed it for you...see goes eitherwayVery Happy

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:16:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Lords Hunter
Edited by: Lords Hunter on 08/11/2010 16:12:56
Originally by: Solena Rain
CCP,

when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does carebearing play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to carebear but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay?

I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?
In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join?


Fixed it for you...see goes eitherwayVery Happy



He didn't say pvp, just griefing.

Tyburn Stannis
Caldari
Xenon Salvage Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Tyburn Stannis on 08/11/2010 16:22:00
If CCP reacted like the majority of other hand-holding spoon-feeding mass-market-massively-multiplayer games companies, EVE's net playerbase would more than likely go DOWN not up, as the players who subscribe for the freedom and maturity level would move on if it were taken away and the game reduced to Carebears-In-Space. Everybody hugging each other and no being nawty and fighting with the other kids or mommy CCP will tell you off. Yeuch.

Besides which, "griefing" is a subjective term, and saying it adds nothing to the game is an entirely personal and selfish opinion. Getting a team of people from all over the world working together, finally making a ship kill or claiming soveriegnty, co-ordinating your escape or planning your attack... all actions performed against other players. And all actions requiring teamwork, communication and plannning - generally accepted to be "postive" qualities, and certainly both enjoyable and rewarding.

You want to play a certain way, and you want the game changed to protect or reward that playstyle - but at the same time you don't want anyone else to play the way they want. Hypocrite much?

If you really think someone is making it personal and you're typing this between sneezing into the tear-stains on your hankie, maybe consider a) you deserved it in some way, maybe you started a fight in some way and now you decide you don't like it when they fought back with a bigger stick, or b) you can use the EXISTING functions to report that one person for that one instance if there really is something unusually vindictive goiong on.

Or we could... ya know... re-write the whole game. Game code, guidelines, the lot. Just for you.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:18:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?

Agreed, nerf carebearing thanks.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.08 16:34:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
CCP,

when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay?

I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?
In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join?


I don't think CCP defines grief play the same way you do.

CCP StevieSG

Posted - 2010.11.08 16:38:00 - [9]
 

Moved to Feature discussion from C&P.

Admiral Zhao
Caldari
169TH Squadron
Posted - 2010.11.08 17:08:00 - [10]
 

Is this a Joe alt?

shady trader
Posted - 2010.11.08 17:22:00 - [11]
 

There is already a section of the EULA (You did read it all before signing up to this game right?) that defines grief play. If someone is carrying out grief play report it to the GM's so they can taken action.

However if you consider that is accepted as normal in eve as grief play (suicide killing, scamming etc) then you are out of luck.

I have seen a number of accounts ban for grief play, so CCP does take action.

Running missions
Posted - 2010.11.08 17:46:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Solena Rain
why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?

Agreed, nerf Yarrtards thanks.

fixed for you

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:03:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay?


A most interesting statement and I am sure the playerbase would also be interested in the results of the surveys along with the other statistics you have collected that brought you to your conclusion.

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:33:00 - [14]
 

I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play?

It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really.

If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic.

When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all.

What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play?

It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really.

If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic.

When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all.

What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility.



just wondering ... you meant to say hulk instead of bantam right?

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:53:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Solena Rain
I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play?

It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really.

If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic.

When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all.

What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility.



just wondering ... you meant to say hulk instead of bantam right?


A hulk has value so this to me would at least be a reasonable kill. The cost of killing a hulk will net you more then the loss of your ships which to me is perfectly OK. Insurance will cover the hulk so you don't really lose too much. Flying a hulk without insurance is their own fault.

VeniVidi Tyrannis
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:57:00 - [17]
 

Eve is a futuristic wild west. Not a commerce sim. I hope you aren't petitioning call of duty to support your erotic role-play fantasies.

Stop petitioning eve to cater to your personal ideals, it's not the right game for you if you can't htfu.

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 21:43:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Solena Rain on 08/11/2010 21:46:22
Edited by: Solena Rain on 08/11/2010 21:45:27
Originally by: VeniVidi Tyrannis
Eve is a futuristic wild west. Not a commerce sim. I hope you aren't petitioning call of duty to support your erotic role-play fantasies.

Stop petitioning eve to cater to your personal ideals, it's not the right game for you if you can't htfu.


Ok fanboy, thanks for the feedback. Nice cookie cutter response. LOL.
Did this worldly wisdom come from years of hard work or something you read on a forum or saw in a music video. Jesus you people scare me sometimes, you are like walking advertisements for the game companies with NO original thought of your own.

It's like having a parrot who learns one phrase and repeats it like he has torrets. HTFU HTFU WAAA HTFU!

Hush pet!

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 21:52:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Admiral Zhao
Is this a Joe alt?


No but good question, I can see you have not seen a girl before, see I have a female avatar so it would be a JANE alt. I'm here to help you.

Junkie Babe
Posted - 2010.11.08 21:59:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Junkie Babe on 08/11/2010 22:07:00
Edited by: Junkie Babe on 08/11/2010 22:06:21
No it's just you've understood EVE wrong, It's deep space and it's not safe, not meant to be safe.

Thats why your allowed to target lock players in high sec instead of just blocking that.

While everyone dislikes been destroyed for no reason, particulary if your in a mining/mission fitted ship which never has a chance vs a PVP fit.

The chance adds risk and danger which makes it more interesting and exiciting.

So while griefers do detract from players enjoyment they also add to it so to say they contribute nothing isn't fair.

BTW unless it's hulkageddon or you've upset someone or got an insanely high credit cargo or flying a rare ship thier not gonna suicide gank you. People don't throw away ships and creds for no reason.

Edit typo

Oneiros IV
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:01:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
add any value to playing eve online?


Define this "value"


Are you trying to deny me a freedom of roleplaying psychotic killer?


Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:04:00 - [22]
 

I'm not talking about SAFE space.

Ok let me try to rephrase my definition of a griefer.

Ready, you will actually have to read this ok?

A griefer is a player who annoys other players but does not gain anything personally in game, meaning there is no reward for him if he gives away the location or password of a POS but does not get anything in return for that information.

but there is another breed
People who use macros are the worst kind of griefer because they destroy the game which they technically dont even play but use a program to play for them.

So between these two extremes of griefers they really devalue eve online, instead of it being a kick ass PVP game it turns into an annoying gaming experience.

I would even put the spammers in Jita into a griefer category. There is a market for buy and sell orders, USE IT and STFU!

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:08:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Oneiros IV
Quote:
add any value to playing eve online?


Define this "value"


Are you trying to deny me a freedom of roleplaying psychotic killer?




Oh heavens NO! We need to keep things interesting. Psychotic killer is OK as long as provide a lesson to your victims and are not out to just ruin their day or annoy them until they rage quit.

If your goal is to make people quit the game you are a griefer, if your goal is to make people be cautious and become better players, you are the kind of player eve needs!

Oneiros IV
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:08:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:11:48
Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:08:37
Psychotic killer doesn't gives lessons he kills.



InChar: My goal is to kill capsuleers and destroy their assets my reasons are my own. Some victims will take path of getting better some will ragequit it's not up to me nor do I care.

Junkie Babe
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:12:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Solena Rain
I'm not talking about SAFE space.

Ok let me try to rephrase my definition of a griefer.

Ready, you will actually have to read this ok?

A griefer is a player who annoys other players but does not gain anything personally in game, meaning there is no reward for him if he gives away the location or password of a POS but does not get anything in return for that information.

but there is another breed
People who use macros are the worst kind of griefer because they destroy the game which they technically dont even play but use a program to play for them.

So between these two extremes of griefers they really devalue eve online, instead of it being a kick ass PVP game it turns into an annoying gaming experience.

I would even put the spammers in Jita into a griefer category. There is a market for buy and sell orders, USE IT and STFU!


CCP regularly bans macro accounts.

Theirs a block feature to hide spam in chat windows.

How do you know that player got nothing from giving away that POS code, they could of blew him up when he was a nooblet and he was getting revenge or he could be selling the POS code to another corp, Revenge, Spying and Espionage are all considered not griefing.

Brandrsun
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.08 22:20:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Solena Rain
why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game?

Agreed, nerf carebearing thanks.


/thread

Solena Rain
Posted - 2010.11.08 23:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Oneiros IV
Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:11:48
Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:08:37
Psychotic killer doesn't gives lessons he kills.



InChar: My goal is to kill capsuleers and destroy their assets my reasons are my own. Some victims will take path of getting better some will ragequit it's not up to me nor do I care.



awww someone is a sad clown. Did the other kids call you names at school?
Seriously people like you should be phased out. You have no self worth and so you value no one else.

Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
Posted - 2010.11.09 00:53:00 - [28]
 

Didnt read the thread but OP sounds butthurt.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2010.11.09 01:00:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: cyndrogen on 09/11/2010 01:03:01
Edited by: cyndrogen on 09/11/2010 01:01:08
Originally by: Meridith Akesia
Didnt read the thread but OP sounds butthurt.


meh. Just don't pick up that bar of soap and you'll be OK.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.09 01:28:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin

I don't think CCP defines grief play the same way you do.


Griefing definition according to ccp.

Unfortunately, their definition leaves a LOT of room for argument on whether some actions are griefing or not. However, with their definition of griefing given, if anyone ever does grief, I do believe they take the action of banhammer (depending on the nature of the action).


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