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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2010.10.27 18:53:00 - [1]
 

The Fifth Council of Stellar Management recently visited our offices in Reykjavik for a new round of meetings. This is their report.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.10.27 18:55:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: ceaon on 28/10/2010 13:42:02
0/




In support of the NO VOTES T'amber has resigned from the CSM as 1st alternate
VOTE NO TO MICROTRANSACTIONS, KEEP EVE AWESOME!

LAST TALLY: NO 79.03% | YES 5.02% | COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% | OTHER 4.73%


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.27 18:57:00 - [3]
 

Normally, I wouldn't IBC, but in this case...

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:03:00 - [4]
 

And people say I'm always causing walls of text ....

Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

But serious again, thank you. Time to dig in, but this is really some sweet hard labour visible right there. Appreciated.

Douchie McNitpick
Free-Space-Ranger
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:05:00 - [5]
 

Finally.
*puts on his reading glasses*

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:07:00 - [6]
 

and stuff. and ice.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:07:00 - [7]
 


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:26:00 - [8]
 


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:34:00 - [9]
 

this makes me think I'm barking up the wrong tree...

hey CSM, how about a live CSM dev blog ? Give the player base a chance to ask you guys live questions over a podcast or something. Maybe one after each summit meeting so we can ask all the juicy questions we have?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:34:00 - [10]
 

I was intensely interested to see that CCP believe there is too much ISK in EVE.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:36:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
hey CSM, how about a live CSM dev blog ? Give the player base a chance to ask you guys live questions over a podcast or something. Maybe one after each summit meeting so we can ask all the juicy questions we have?

As it happens, we are currently discussing the logistics of doing exactly this.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:48:00 - [12]
 

I read all of it, including the actual pdf file.

That said, I agree with the emphasis the CSM is putting into fighting micro transactions.

Perhaps they cannot ever put enough into it, but every bit of mentioning just how much we collectively don't like the idea can only help.

Dont do it.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:53:00 - [13]
 

I can see at least 4 things that an evil, maliciously inclined person could create a huge ~threadnaught~ about, but since I am good and lovely, those nasty people will have to find those and threadnaught about it themselves.

I will say that the very apparent difference in tone and emphasis shows a more constructive and engaged CSM <-> CCP relationship, and I am extremely relieved to see this. I had been worried that CCP would clam up after the aftermath of the last meeting, but instead they have HTFU, and answered our concerns. There are some difficult questions being openly answered there. And if Hilmar is being slightly disingenuous about "liking" having the playerbase call bull****, it's apparent that he recognises that occasionally CCP need it.

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:56:00 - [14]
 

A suggestion as to how to make experienced players more willing to participate in mass tests:

Instead of giving 2 000 000 skill points that may or may not be wasted at the next synchronization, instead give a limited time all lvl 5 skills. Say it's lasting 2-3 days after the event. After that it's changed back to the normal skill levels again. If the player wants to keep it, he has to participate in a new test.

If you want more reports from the tests, make it so you get the 2 000 000 SP if you just participate AND the 2-3 days all lvl 5 skills if you also submit a report.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/10/2010 21:07:05
My thoughts on the minutes:


  • It is absolutly a shame that no serious lag fixing was deployed prior to the player outrage in June. I understand that it takes time, but things as basic as forming a team to fight the lag should have been done the day right after Dominion.



  • About microtransactions: The Eve player base is older and more educated than the average First person shooter or MMO playerbase. As such, I don't think that "vanity-only" items will be worth the massive drawbacks:


    • A change of "atmosphere", of "feeling". Eve won't look/feel the same if microtransactions are introduced. It won't feel like a high class and mature game anymore, it will feel like a cheap browser game that is trying to suck money out of its players by charging them for both a monthly subscription and items that let players distinguish themself from each others. Please... don't ruin the eve experience.


    • Final blow to the players that have been frustrated by CCP's behavior since Dominion (many veterans).


    • Going against the opinion of the player base. Frustrating your entire player base for vanity items IS NOT WORTH THE RISK. I remember some CCP suit saying: "Eve is our baby, we are very careful about it".



  • Quote:
    CSM: Has it occurred to CCP to simply raise the subscription cost instead of dabbling in micro-transactions? CCP: CCP is not necessarily doing this to make more money, but to offer a greater and broader range of service to players.


    How is introducing microtransactions better for the average player than not introducing them? If you need more money, raise the subscription cost, do not create a difference between the players that have money and those who don't, even if it's only vanity items.


Hentes Zsemle
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:59:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Hentes Zsemle on 27/10/2010 20:01:16
It looks to me that ccp has hired a PR team a while ago, which have / had a really bad influence on the relationship between the company and the players, and its as if they were starting to realize that your shouldn't listen to ppl who use too much hair products.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:08:00 - [17]
 

Dog and Pony shows are best part of the circus.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:11:00 - [18]
 

Plenty of good stuffs to read in the pdf, thumbs up to CSM.

Looks like CCP's finally doing some transparent course correction after that last media debacle that killed a large amount of goodwill from the Eve community. A few thumbs up to CCP, but there's still a lot of ground to cover.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:17:00 - [19]
 

I am glad to see folks recognizing that the CSM <--> CCP relationship has evolved in a very positive and productive direction since the June Summit. It is light years ahead of where it was then.

Many thanks to Trebor, who did a wonderful and amazingly speedy job prepping the draft and responding to feedback to produce the devblog and Minutes.

wizard87
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:23:00 - [20]
 

Interesting, but why do you repeatedly "speak" for the CSM's feelings?


CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2010.10.27 20:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
I can see at least 4 things that an evil, maliciously inclined person could create a huge ~threadnaught~ about, but since I am good and lovely, those nasty people will have to find those and threadnaught about it themselves.


EVE Community, best community!

Originally by: Malcanis

I will say that the very apparent difference in tone and emphasis shows a more constructive and engaged CSM <-> CCP relationship, and I am extremely relieved to see this. I had been worried that CCP would clam up after the aftermath of the last meeting, but instead they have HTFU, and answered our concerns. There are some difficult questions being openly answered there. And if Hilmar is being slightly disingenuous about "liking" having the playerbase call bull****, it's apparent that he recognises that occasionally CCP need it.


I have said it before (perhaps I haven't said it on the EVE forums) and I will say it again to anyone who wants to listen - the CSM was doing its job in June. This is what they are supposed to do.

And I believe I'm not exaggerating in any way when I state that Hilmar was not being disingenuous in any form or fashion. This is what makes him a great CCP CEO.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:34:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: wizard87
Interesting, but why do you repeatedly "speak" for the CSM's feelings?


"The CSM feels" is basically shorthand for "the general consensus of the CSM".

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:42:00 - [23]
 

CCP Oveur gets my vote on the 'Comedy Timing' routine there.

Fly CSM over to Iceland for a meeting, then escape to the roof top jet over to Shanghai!

NINJA!


Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:57:00 - [24]
 

Still reading but I'm really surprised that CCP hasn't considered doing attribute remaps for pure ISK like a good old NPC sold item instead of PLEX. I mean it is a lot of talk of too much ISK in the universe, so this if anything would drain the coffers.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:58:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Malcanis
I can see at least 4 things that an evil, maliciously inclined person could create a huge ~threadnaught~ about, but since I am good and lovely, those nasty people will have to find those and threadnaught about it themselves.


EVE Community, best community!

Originally by: Malcanis

I will say that the very apparent difference in tone and emphasis shows a more constructive and engaged CSM <-> CCP relationship, and I am extremely relieved to see this. I had been worried that CCP would clam up after the aftermath of the last meeting, but instead they have HTFU, and answered our concerns. There are some difficult questions being openly answered there. And if Hilmar is being slightly disingenuous about "liking" having the playerbase call bull****, it's apparent that he recognises that occasionally CCP need it.


I have said it before (perhaps I haven't said it on the EVE forums) and I will say it again to anyone who wants to listen - the CSM was doing its job in June. This is what they are supposed to do.

And I believe I'm not exaggerating in any way when I state that Hilmar was not being disingenuous in any form or fashion. This is what makes him a great CCP CEO.



There are quite a few points of almost brutal honest on the side of CCP in these minutes, I have to admit. while some may see it as emberassing, I thnk it is healthy.

This does however raise some interesting questions for CCP itself, and its organisation. The next 6 months are going to be both vital and of interest. And a lot of it, will involve thinking outside the sandbox.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.10.27 21:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: ceaon
http://blog.ccpgames.com/alli/files/2010/08/Ottarsson_GlobalAgileGameDevelopmentNoPassportRequired.pdf on page 27 what software is there


That's Hansoft.


tvm

CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2010.10.27 21:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Spurty
CCP Oveur gets my vote on the 'Comedy Timing' routine there.

Fly CSM over to Iceland for a meeting, then escape to the roof top jet over to Shanghai!

NINJA!




To be fair the CSM visit was decided after he had been scheduled to be in Shanghai. But CCP Oveur has an uncanny knack of seeing the future... so maybe this is a case of a future-ninja?

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2010.10.27 21:19:00 - [28]
 

Sansha cyno-jamming systems will cause comedy all around. Micro-transactions are becoming an industry wide occurrence and not exactly OMG material. I was hoping to see more about the CSM list and progress being made on it. (Assault Frigates, Destroyers, Faction Warfare, ect.) It was a good read though.

Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.10.27 21:23:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Exordium8 on 27/10/2010 21:24:14
Looks good

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.10.27 21:24:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: TeaDaze on 27/10/2010 21:25:52
Thanks to CCP for getting the minutes up quickly.

Keep the comments coming, we have another summit meeting in December


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