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Millsy1
Posted - 2010.11.09 06:09:00 - [61]
 

Scan res, yes get rid of it. hell. give us a scan res BONUS when we have a cloak fitted. Locking fast for a black ops -would- fit the role. And for the love of Pete, give the panther more than 60km lock range! wtf is that!


I still don't think people who want the covops cloak even use a blackops though. I don't warp places. Why warp 80AU and miss the fight (or land after everyone else has left and you are stuck in a bubble!).
You sit a few systems out, nice and safe, and jump at the range you want! 5km? 40km? 100km? poof! you are there! Warp smarp.


Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.09 08:10:00 - [62]
 

Imho the matar one should be the worst one significantly.
It is a bs class + high tech ship where matars should have a drawback.
Best should be the caldari by far then gall.

Agondray
Gallente
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
Posted - 2010.11.09 08:54:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Agondray on 09/11/2010 08:55:30
Originally by: Kendon riddick
Originally by: Baudolino

I see all Black Ops as close range fighters- this is the one thing that unify all the BOs and the one thing that should remain consistent with ANY buffs or updates- close range equals higher risk which in turn would generally allow for some buffs.

Caldari = ECM burst bonus
40% range pr lvl

Minmatar = Smartbomb bonus
40% range pr lvl

Amarr = Cap neutralization pulse (240 sec cycle time)
6km base range, 2500 cap activation, 3000 cap neutralized
40% range pr lvl

Gallente = Propulsion neutralization pulse (240sec cycle time)
6km base range, deactivates MWD+AB, duration 10sec
40% range pr lvl




are you high?


are you high kendon? it states 40% starting 5% increase per level. that or you can read and do math.

Caldari = ECM burst bonus
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% strength pr lvl (5% pr lvl on specialization skill)

Minmatar = Smartbomb bonus
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% strength pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)

Amarr = Cap neutralization pulse (240 sec cycle time)
6km base range, 2500 cap activation, 3000 cap neutralized
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
10% amount pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)

Gallente = Propulsion neutralization pulse (240sec cycle time)
6km base range, deactivates MWD+AB, duration 10sec
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% duraton pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2010.11.09 09:34:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Agondray
Edited by: Agondray on 09/11/2010 08:55:30
Originally by: Kendon riddick
Originally by: Baudolino

I see all Black Ops as close range fighters- this is the one thing that unify all the BOs and the one thing that should remain consistent with ANY buffs or updates- close range equals higher risk which in turn would generally allow for some buffs.

Caldari = ECM burst bonus
40% range pr lvl

Minmatar = Smartbomb bonus
40% range pr lvl

Amarr = Cap neutralization pulse (240 sec cycle time)
6km base range, 2500 cap activation, 3000 cap neutralized
40% range pr lvl

Gallente = Propulsion neutralization pulse (240sec cycle time)
6km base range, deactivates MWD+AB, duration 10sec
40% range pr lvl




are you high?


are you high kendon? it states 40% starting 5% increase per level. that or you can read and do math.

Caldari = ECM burst bonus
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% strength pr lvl (5% pr lvl on specialization skill)

Minmatar = Smartbomb bonus
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% strength pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)

Amarr = Cap neutralization pulse (240 sec cycle time)
6km base range, 2500 cap activation, 3000 cap neutralized
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
10% amount pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)

Gallente = Propulsion neutralization pulse (240sec cycle time)
6km base range, deactivates MWD+AB, duration 10sec
40% range pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)
20% duraton pr lvl (5% pr lvl extra on specialization skill)


dude, its not the amounts per level its the fact he goes on about black ops needing to be close range fighters and brawlers and then gives them all range bonuses.

clearly smokes too much crack, also smartbomb bonus? LOL

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2010.11.09 11:06:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Naomi Knight
Imho the matar one should be the worst one significantly.
It is a bs class + high tech ship where matars should have a drawback.
Best should be the caldari by far then gall.


Laughing

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.11.09 13:08:00 - [66]
 

I like them just as they are. The only thing I'd alter is a reduction in the fuel needed to bridge cruiser sized ships.

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2010.11.09 17:33:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Noisrevbus on 09/11/2010 17:48:10
Originally by: Ralara
I like them just as they are. The only thing I'd alter is a reduction in the fuel needed to bridge cruiser sized ships.


This, with the possible addition of maybe reducing fuel need (thus cost) for all ships by a good margin. It's a ship that bridges other ships, let it fulfill it's role with less punity.

I saw some people earlier in this thread asking for it to get an extension to it's bridge range. Personally, i'd rather see it going the completely opposite direction with the ability to bridge more, yet shorter, jumps. It's already a bit too stagnant and used by defensive forces to overwhelm targets entering their area of influence (similar to Titan bridging and bridge networks). I'd rather see it endorsing roaming ideals, than lazy hotdrops, letting it bridge system-system for blob-evasion multiple times without staggering upkeep (ie., bridge 1 jump 10 times rather than 10 jumps 1 time for the same fuel cost). In short, buff roaming - nerf lazy hometurf hotdrops.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.09 18:25:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Naomi Knight
Imho the matar one should be the worst one significantly.
It is a bs class + high tech ship where matars should have a drawback.
Best should be the caldari by far then gall.


Naomi...in your "humble" opinion the matar everything should be the worst everything significantly. Rolling Eyes

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2010.11.09 21:31:00 - [69]
 

BO should have the special ability to jump or bridge into systems without having to lock onto a cyno at all. It or the ships it bridges would just appear at a random safe within the +20AU invisible wall.

If a cyno is available, it can jump/bridge to it with a 2x range bonus. So up to 9 ly with max skills.


Meeko Atari
Posted - 2010.11.09 21:36:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
BO should have the special ability to jump or bridge into systems without having to lock onto a cyno at all. It or the ships it bridges would just appear at a random safe within the +20AU invisible wall.

If a cyno is available, it can jump/bridge to it with a 2x range bonus. So up to 9 ly with max skills.




Totally on board Very Happy

Millsy1
Posted - 2010.11.09 21:59:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
BO should have the special ability to jump or bridge into systems without having to lock onto a cyno at all. It or the ships it bridges would just appear at a random safe within the +20AU invisible wall.

If a cyno is available, it can jump/bridge to it with a 2x range bonus. So up to 9 ly with max skills.




How about to make things fair, you can jump to a system, but there is a chance you end up in another system within 1 jump or 1au whichever is less? Would seem to make things fair. you are still close to the target.

Love the 9ly range, but that will never happen. I'd love to be able to jump with dreads. you know, be able to use a cyno chain that something else uses. instead of 15 cyno's to empire? (done that trip 3 times with about 5+ billion in the cargo hold each time, it's not fun)


Anyway. Stick to the simple changes, ones that are actually likely. I foresee CCP canceling the scan res somehow. And maybe a slight tweak to resists. My guess is they are just going to stiff us on range and fuel changes.

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.09 22:00:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Soldarius


Quick scan of your kill stats proves this to be false on both fronts. No kills, and no losses with Black Ops. Not to say you've never flown one. But your stats don't support it.



Neither do yours so what makes your opinion any more valid or give you any justification for telling people to get a clue?

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2010.11.09 22:48:00 - [73]
 

I have always ( selfishly ) wanted the BO's to be Battleship sized Recons with a Jump Drive, relying on their E-War to stay alive.

Even if they were given Racial E-War a Cov-Ops Cloak may be a bit too much for any battleship to have, not that I wouldn't love it!

I still like the Idea of longer jump ranges with a cov-ops cyno alt, and the ability to jump without a cyno ( at a reduced range )

my 2 isk

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2010.11.10 00:29:00 - [74]
 

BO prices have come way, way down in recent weeks. Widows seem to be the most affordable - 440 million, less if you are patient. I got one for 434 million. Sold a Panther for 469 million. That's also way down in price. Redeemers seem to be the only ones consistently selling for over 500 million.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.10 02:19:00 - [75]
 

15% Reduction in Fuel need for Jump Drive Activation per level of BO
10% Reduction in Fuel need for Covert Jump Portal Activation per level of BO
20% Increase to Scan Resolution per level of BO.
20% Reduction to Cloaking Device Velocity penalty per level of BO.
10% Increase to Jump Drive and Covert Jump Portal range per level of BO.

Role Bonus: No targeting delay after uncloaking and 25% velocity bonus while cloaking device is equipped (passive bonus).
Special Bonus: Black Ops Insertion - Black Ops ships with an equipped Covert Cyno Generator can lock onto a system star rather than on to a Cyno field. Covert Jump Portal Generator cannot be equipped for this ability to be active. This is a passive ability enabled by the equipping of a Covert Cyno, but in turn disabled by the equipping of a Covert Portal Generator.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.11.10 03:48:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
Originally by: Soldarius


Quick scan of your kill stats proves this to be false on both fronts. No kills, and no losses with Black Ops. Not to say you've never flown one. But your stats don't support it.



Neither do yours so what makes your opinion any more valid or give you any justification for telling people to get a clue?


2/10. Obvious troll. Extra credit given for actually looking at a kb. Your stats according to BC, 0 kills 5 losses. Your hypocricy knows no bounds. Post with main or gtfo. btw, JDO 5 in 6 days and some hours. I would say see you around. But if that were true, I wouldn't be doing my job right.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.11.10 11:50:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 10/11/2010 12:41:52
Theres no reason they shouldn't have a covert ops cloaking device. We already have covert cloaky ships that outdps, outtank, outrun, outperform these ships in almost every way.

What would you rather have uncloaking next to your ratting bs? A covert ops blaster proteus or a covert ops autocannon panther?

[Panther, Covert Ops]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

826 DPS 77K EHP

vs

[Proteus, Covert Ops]

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

501 DPS 114k EHP.

Giving them covert ops would not turn them into solo cloaky pwnmobiles.

Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2010.11.10 15:48:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 10/11/2010 12:41:52
Theres no reason they shouldn't have a covert ops cloaking device.


I beg to differ.

One thing that a lot of pilots tend to do is compare a class of ship to another in a total vacuum. And on the surface that seems like a logical thing to do. However, what needs to be considered in this case is what will large numbers of covert cloaking battleships do to game balance?

Some would argue that there are so few Black-Ops that numbers would be irrelevant. And currently that is true. If a change like this is introduced though its my feeling that pilots will be clamoring for them and then we will have exponentially more of them in a few weeks/months. As recent battles have shown the one of the top rules of fleet combat in New Eden is bring friends...LOTS of them. Then we begin to see a problem.

As a long time pilot of one, the "fangs out, one eyebrowed, lets go kill something" side of me say HELLZ YES, do this CCP...Twice. The rational side of me says "3-4 Covert battleships not so bad, 40-100 of those very, very bad.

And I will concede that large numbers of any one ship class can do funky things to the outcome of combat. However, proponents of this have to consider what a big a** fleet of cloaky battleships will do to the game.

And IMHO it will be bad.


Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.11.10 16:08:00 - [79]
 

Thats true but given the cost of black ops and their relative weaknesses to even a non-cloaky tier one battleship its unlikely they would ever be used as a fleet ship.

A fleet of T3's would be just as bad, probably worse since they're faster and have the sig of cruisers. They don't happen because they're too expensive to field as disposable fleet ships.

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2010.11.10 16:29:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: Lady Skank
Originally by: Soldarius

Quick scan of your kill stats proves this to be false on both fronts. No kills, and no losses with Black Ops. Not to say you've never flown one. But your stats don't support it.


Neither do yours so what makes your opinion any more valid or give you any justification for telling people to get a clue?

2/10. Obvious troll. Extra credit given for actually looking at a kb. Your stats according to BC, 0 kills 5 losses. Your hypocricy knows no bounds. Post with main or gtfo. btw, JDO 5 in 6 days and some hours. I would say see you around. But if that were true, I wouldn't be doing my job right.



I was not the one claiming my opinion was any more valid than anyone elses or telling people to get a clue, you came into the thread and started smacking about killboard stats when your own stats in no way support your supposedly enlightened perspective about how Black ops should or should not operate.

I like the tough talk about "doing your job right to" keep deluding yourself about being some kind of elite operative.

Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2010.11.10 19:15:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thats true but given the cost of black ops and their relative weaknesses to even a non-cloaky tier one battleship its unlikely they would ever be used as a fleet ship.

A fleet of T3's would be just as bad, probably worse since they're faster and have the sig of cruisers. They don't happen because they're too expensive to field as disposable fleet ships.


And I don't disagree with what you said. But remember there are entities that drop 28 supercarriers and dozens of other crap on 1 enemy supercarrier just for the "lulz".

All I am saying is if there is advantage to be had by doing something seemingly ridiculous to "normal" folk there are pilots willing to do it. And we should be careful with what we ask for.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.11.10 20:28:00 - [82]
 

Covert Ops cloaking is just the devs' lazy way of adding in bonuses to counter the drawbacks of the original cloaks. There never needed to be a 'covert ops cloak'. Merely 'covert ops' ships just needed the bonuses I posted above.

KentOnline
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.11 11:27:00 - [83]
 


General Rivera
Posted - 2010.11.11 14:55:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Wacktopia
I have an idea too: CCP need to create a forum area for all these suggestions. The can call it something like.. Features and Ideas Discussion?


Well here it is Very Happy

Assembly Hall

I just think the Jump range should be tweaked a lil bit. As for the gang bonus thing, No. its not a command ship. Also maybe JUST MAYBE tweak its passive tank

Shepard Book
Posted - 2010.11.11 15:09:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Shepard Book on 11/11/2010 15:10:35
Originally by: Baudolino
Please do not mention covert ops cloaking in this thread- it`s unimaginitive and will never happen..


They said the same thing about the stealth bomber an the Cov OP cloak made it more viable and popular.


Add Cov ops cloak and a buff to either tank or gank but not both. Sin needs more grid too.

Baudolino
Gallente
Royal Crimson Lancers
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:44:00 - [86]
 

I really don`t believe that BOs need covert ops cloaks

Being able to jump into a system and land on top of a target is a far superior move than entering system through a gate and warping to target- JUMPING SAVES TIME.

It would be nice if they had tech II stats though and had structure/armor/shield stats in line with their battleship variants rather than with battlecruisers.

BOs need to be able to jump into deadspace pockets as well as cyno jammed systems..

As for my initial bonus suggestions the readers have missed an important aspect of their description. They have massive cap and recharge requirements and can realistically therefore only be used ONCE during combat. Moreover they hurt friendlies as much as hostiles and are thus intended to help the BOs get out of combat rather then help them win or dominate a fight.

As for the particular bonuses i merely tried to come up with a unique bonus for each race, but one that would fit with that race. They are merely suggestions and ideas. Rather than asking whether i`m high i was hoping people would follow my line of though and elaborate on that.

BOs are an interesting concept. One that is still in it`s infancy and far from fully developed..

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2010.11.14 09:44:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Jaari Val''Dara on 14/11/2010 09:50:39
Black ops are designed for infiltration and espionage behind the enemy lines, so why on eve can they only jump 4.5ly, while a carrier can jump 14.625ly. That makes absolutely no sense, if anything black ops should be able to jump farther, they should be able to jump at least 10ly.
They need to use less fuel - they should be able to go in and out of enemy territory without the need of bringing extra fuel.
They don't need covert ops cloak, but they should not be negatively affected by regular cloaks. Perhaps a new cloak designed specifically for black ops. Black ops cloak should let black ops ship jump in the system without decloaking, just like covert ops cloaks let warp in without decloaking.

Ilandere
Posted - 2010.11.16 02:44:00 - [88]
 

Odd side thought came to me while reading this thread. What if BO could decloak other cloaked covert ops ships? Or if not decloak perhaps the ability to target/track through the cloak in visual range?

That'd make them a lot more useful and seems to me would go along with the theme of black ops bird.

Baudolino
Gallente
Royal Crimson Lancers
Posted - 2010.11.16 13:04:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Baudolino on 16/11/2010 13:09:07
I got this idea from someone talking about a sort of ping device for blackops that was supposed to de-cloak any ships within the target area.

I immediately got this other idea.

Still a ping-device like subs use to precisely locate objects in water. A high slot item that emits a pulse that provides a jumpable location for any object within ping range. (i would suggest a 100km base range + 200% per skill level)

The idea is that the Black ops can do a short range jump to any object, or ship, within ping range. At low skills the BO could ping anything on grid and jump to it- at max skill it could conceivably sit at an acceleration gate, ping a ship inside and then jump on top of it.

If they remove the cloaking penalties and add micro-jumping the black ops could be quite a toolYARRRR!!

Exopolitics
Posted - 2010.11.16 16:17:00 - [90]
 

My ideas for the Sin are to make it a drone hit&run ship:

Remove boosts to guns

Add speed/MWD boost to drones.
Improve RoF, Decrease actual damage of drones (Keeping the actual DpS the same)

This would enable the Sin to jump in, do some sort of blitzkrieg with his drones, and jump out quickly because the drones'll be fast enough to get back in.


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