open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked Defect List and lack thereof
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.20 12:10:00 - [1]
 

So here I am with time on my hands, a long time player (day 1) who wants to help with hunting those bugs pre-release rather than ranting after release that CCP don't do X or Y or even Z to find issues in their code.

Sure I can login to SiSi and play with stuff but with EvE being of the size and complexity that it is this approach feels more like looking for that blasted needle in the proverbial haystack!

So this got me to thinking that what we need is a list, forum or website, that lists specific things that the bug hunters want tested or need more log server captures of. You see I would be more than happy to test things and give nice detailed reports on my findings and logs etc but with no direction it's a little on the difficult side.

Anyway, what do you test server peeps think? Would that make general community testing more efficient or are you all to busy just blowing stuff up and testing fits to care??

Oh and yes I have... :-)

-CJ


CCP Oneiromancer

Posted - 2010.10.20 12:21:00 - [2]
 

There is a number of things that could do with some focused testing, and some of those things are in the sticky threads on this forum (character creation system, Incursion etc).

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.20 12:39:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
There is a number of things that could do with some focused testing, and some of those things are in the sticky threads on this forum (character creation system, Incursion etc).


Agreed but I am talking about the doubtless long list of 'small ticket' things that must be out there. eg:-

ok so we changed x how does that affect y

Graphics artefacts have been reported on x conditions can you replicate? What settings change the behaviour

Take a look at the new element to the fitting screen we added, does this have an effect on other things? (eg like BR 72394 & 72305)

We changed the UI focus for a cool new feature, what things get borked because of it (eg BR 102138)


You get the idea, I guess I am saying give me specifics to test not just have a fiddle :-)

-CJ



HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.20 13:10:00 - [4]
 

i think the OP is referring to small changes ccp makes not the big grand PR things that werent mentioned at last years fanfest ( which 90% hasnt made it into game anyway) but small changes ccp makes and usually slips through net ( right click menu for one)

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.10.20 13:26:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Catari Taga on 20/10/2010 13:27:39
I don't think CCP has a lack of known bugs to fix, the issue was never identifying them but rather fixing them.

Or in other words: There are enough bugs that people know about and that are affecting their gameplay, rather fix those than go on a hunt for elusive bugs noone has even noticed yet.

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.20 13:28:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Cryten Jones on 20/10/2010 13:30:35
Originally by: HeliosGal
i think the OP is referring to small changes ccp makes not the big grand PR things that werent mentioned at last years fanfest ( which 90% hasnt made it into game anyway) but small changes ccp makes and usually slips through net ( right click menu for one)



This is right. There must of lists and lists of small things that get reported and need more info / reproducing.

Just want to be of help really, but at the same time know that I am actualy being of use :-)

-CJ

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.20 13:35:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Catari Taga
Edited by: Catari Taga on 20/10/2010 13:27:39
I don't think CCP has a lack of known bugs to fix, the issue was never identifying them but rather fixing them.

Or in other words: There are enough bugs that people know about and that are affecting their gameplay, rather fix those than go on a hunt for elusive bugs no one has even noticed yet.


Whilst I see your point, it's an oxymoron. The small unknown bugs are tomorrow living nightmare.

-CJ


Cresalle
Posted - 2010.10.20 20:52:00 - [8]
 

Okay, look. I'm telling you for the last time.


  • There are known knowns.

  • There are known unknowns.

  • There are unknown unknowns.

  • There are tacos in the fridge.

  • There are unknown knowns.


Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.20 22:31:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cresalle
Okay, look. I'm telling you for the last time.


  • There are known knowns.

  • There are known unknowns.

  • There are unknown unknowns.

  • There are tacos in the fridge.

  • There are unknown knowns.




Aaaaaaand, most importantly:
  • The cake is a lie.


Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.10.21 00:13:00 - [10]
 

I agree with the OP. And i think it could easily be implemented thusly...
A Stikied (possibly locked?) thread wich has in it;

A list of new features/fixes for the next patch/expansion that are currently on sisi, basically anything that is differet from TQ. (these might not all be included in the next expansion if it turnes out they don't work properly yet but a list of the changes being made small or large that are actually on sisi would be deeply usefull.)

A list of all (or atleast a top priority list of) bugs currently known about which you would like bug reports for, with any relevent known info needed for someone who might want to recreate them if they were so inclined.

A known issues list, with the intended fix for that issue. So we know we don't need to report that issue and or emorage about it... (I should note that I hardly ever emorage about stuff, although your dials on the charachter creation system UI are comming close. However I am thinking about the eve comunity as a whole as I write this.

This would have the following benefits...
We the user's/testers would have a one stop shop for what changes are actually on the test server, thus anything we encounter that isn't on this list or TQ is a bug that can be reported.
We would also have a good idea of where to start in creating bug's to file reports on.
And when patch/expantion day comes around we can have a look at your patch notes and point out all the bits you forgot to put in it (also hopefully the practice of keeping an accurate log of what changes are actually on sisi might reduce the number of times this happens)

You ought to have an internal list of features/changes currently on sisi, which gets updated every time sisi does. makeing this public would enable us to see exactly what is new and different and test it out.

This thread could be locked and just an information source, with threads on specific features (like the avatar creation system) in a seperate thread.

CCP Oneiromancer

Posted - 2010.10.21 07:36:00 - [11]
 

I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.

I will consider some possible solutions when I return from my current trip and you are also welcome to make suggestions on how this could be implemented.

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.21 09:40:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Cryten Jones on 21/10/2010 09:41:36
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.

I will consider some possible solutions when I return from my current trip and you are also welcome to make suggestions on how this could be implemented.



How about having a new option for reported bugs allowing your guys to set them as "more examples needed" instead of filtered, not filtered, assigned to defect etc.

We then go to bugs.eve-online and can see the list of "more examples please". This allows us to use the original reporter's reproduction steps and does not need any further management from you guys.

If you want something specific tested you can just add a defect yourself :-)

Shimples *squeek*


-CJ


Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.21 15:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Cryten Jones
Edited by: Cryten Jones on 21/10/2010 09:41:36
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.

I will consider some possible solutions when I return from my current trip and you are also welcome to make suggestions on how this could be implemented.



How about having a new option for reported bugs allowing your guys to set them as "more examples needed" instead of filtered, not filtered, assigned to defect etc.

We then go to bugs.eve-online and can see the list of "more examples please". This allows us to use the original reporter's reproduction steps and does not need any further management from you guys.

If you want something specific tested you can just add a defect yourself :-)

Shimples *squeek*


-CJ




Sounds quite simple and elegant.

Fortune Taker
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.21 18:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I will consider some possible solutions when I return from my current trip and you are also welcome to make suggestions on how this could be implemented.


you know the last time i heard that line, person responsible for alliance logos was out on maternity leave for a year and a half

Oneiromancer, are you pregnant?

Alstarz01
Amarr
Martyr's Vengence
Posted - 2010.10.21 19:18:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Fortune Taker
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I will consider some possible solutions when I return from my current trip and you are also welcome to make suggestions on how this could be implemented.


you know the last time i heard that line, person responsible for alliance logos was out on maternity leave for a year and a half

Oneiromancer, are you pregnant?


nope, she's at their china office.

Rustpunk
Minmatar
No-Mercy
Posted - 2010.10.21 20:43:00 - [16]
 

Isn't that what the Bug Hunter team does? I could misunderstand their purpose, but I thought that's exactly what those volunteers do. Smile

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.10.23 21:12:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Cryten Jones

How about having a new option for reported bugs allowing your guys to set them as "more examples needed" instead of filtered, not filtered, assigned to defect etc.

We then go to bugs.eve-online and can see the list of "more examples please". This allows us to use the original reporter's reproduction steps and does not need any further management from you guys.



Nice, seems (relatively) simple to implement/operate.

Would also need a change to "submit bug report" to allow other users to cross-reference their new logs to the one needing examples, and for it to bounce back into the queue for BH attention once new info is added.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.24 02:47:00 - [18]
 

yeah well big things first small things later that is what sells th game

StarStryder
WISE OUTCASTS
Posted - 2010.10.24 09:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.


What information is stored in your defect management system that can not be made public?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.24 11:38:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: StarStryder
What information is stored in your defect management system that can not be made public?


All of it.

Cryten Jones
Gallente
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.24 23:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.


What information is stored in your defect management system that can not be made public?



Things like "If you spin your ship three times to the right in an Amarr station and type ISK ISK BABY all at once the client spawns 100 navy ravens in your hanger and gives you dev tools access"

or something like that :-)


-CJ

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.25 17:24:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Cryten Jones
Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
I see your point and this suggestion has been made before. However, making and maintaining such a list creates a lot of overhead for the developers, since our internal list of changes and fixes cannot be made public as-is. Not to say that we wouldn't like to do it or that there is no benefit to doing so, we would all like to see a more efficient public testing.


What information is stored in your defect management system that can not be made public?



Things like "If you spin your ship three times to the right in an Amarr station and type ISK ISK BABY all at once the client spawns 100 navy ravens in your hanger and gives you dev tools access"

or something like that :-)


-CJ


That and, most importantly, internal defects for yet to be released content...


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only